Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-14 Thread John E Drake
Chris,

Well put.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Lsr  On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:56 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Cc: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; 'Christian Hopps'
> ; Aijun Wang 
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 +
> IPR poll.
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> It's not useful for people to be adding a bunch of extra qualifications and
> caveats to the adoption poll.
> 
> This is not a dual adoption poll. We are not calling for adoption of an 
> unwritten,
> unfinished algorithm document. That makes no sense; we adopt reviewed
> acceptable work, not the promise of it. We're also not going to hold up
> standardizing the signaling work waiting on unfinished algorithm work, that's
> literally the opposite of the goal here which is to un-tie these two things 
> so we
> can make progress on both in parallel.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris.
> 
> Aijun Wang  writes:
> 
> > Hi, Christian:
> >
> > Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, in which
> > one(draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02) focuses on the centralized mode
> > and the other(draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) focuses on the
> > distributed mode.
> >
> > The centralized mode for is one straightforward way to realize the
> > flooding reduction, and I admire Tony Li give his solution first. But
> > from the consideration of solution robustness, the distributed mode
> > may be more promising.
> > My consideration for distributed mode is that it should not cover only
> > the algorithm, more contents need to be standardized in future. Huaimo
> > has one good start point for distributed mode, and he also gives
> > abundant thoughts for the centralized mode that the current version of
> > draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 has not covered yet.
> >
> > Proposal for the name of two drafts may be
> > draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-centralized-mode and
> > draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-distributed-mode.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards.
> >
> > Aijun Wang
> > Network R and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation
> > Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.
> >
> > -邮件原件-
> > 发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
> > 发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
> > 收件人: lsr@ietf.org
> > 抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
> > 主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR
> > poll.
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.
> >
> > The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and
> > standardize a way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not
> > standardize any specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.
> >
> > Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related
> > to this work.
> >
> > We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that
> > started as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into
> > that plus competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology
> > information. The intent after adoption of
> > draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG can discuss
> > adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted signaling
> > draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for the
> > authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new
> > document without the signaling portion and instead focus on their
> > flooding topology algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in
> parallel along with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.
> >
> > Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we
> > don't expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined
> > above will help us move forward on the solutions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris & Acee.
> > LSR WG Chairs.
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Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-14 Thread Christian Hopps


Hi folks,

It's not useful for people to be adding a bunch of extra qualifications and 
caveats to the adoption poll.

This is not a dual adoption poll. We are not calling for adoption of an 
unwritten, unfinished algorithm document. That makes no sense; we adopt 
reviewed acceptable work, not the promise of it. We're also not going to hold 
up standardizing the signaling work waiting on unfinished algorithm work, 
that's literally the opposite of the goal here which is to un-tie these two 
things so we can make progress on both in parallel.

Thanks,
Chris.

Aijun Wang  writes:


Hi, Christian:

Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, in which
one(draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02) focuses on the centralized mode and
the other(draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) focuses on the distributed
mode.

The centralized mode for is one straightforward way to realize the flooding
reduction, and I admire Tony Li give his solution first. But from the
consideration of solution robustness, the distributed mode may be more
promising.
My consideration for distributed mode is that it should not cover only the
algorithm, more contents need to be standardized in future. Huaimo has one
good start point for distributed mode, and he also gives abundant thoughts
for the centralized mode that the current version of
draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 has not covered yet.

Proposal for the name of two drafts may be
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-centralized-mode and
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-distributed-mode.


Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R and Operation Support Department
China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR
poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a
way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any
specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to
this work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started
as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus
competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent
after adoption of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG
can discuss adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted
signaling draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for
the authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document
without the signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology
algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in parallel along
with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't
expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will
help us move forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.


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Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-13 Thread Yangang
Support the adoption on these two drafts.

Yangang

-Original Message-
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lizhenbin
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 2:21 PM
To: 'Christian Hopps' ; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + 
IPR poll.

Hi Chris & Acee,
I have explained my concerns the previous mails. In order to avoid unnecessary 
overlap, I supports the adoption of the drafts like follows:
- both drafts are adopted at the same time keeping draft-li-dynamic-flooding 
focus on the centralized solution and draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction on the 
distributed solution.
- draft-li-dynamic-flooding can keep on refining the centralized solution 
without mentioning distributed solutions.
- draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction can keep on refining the distributed 
solutions. For the signaling which can be shared by the two modes, the draft 
can indicate the distributed solutions reuse the signaling defined in 
draft-li-dynamic-flooding without defining new signaling. 
- both drafts change the draft names to reflect different solutions without 
causing confusion.


Thanks & Regards,
Zhenbin (Robin)



-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a way 
to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any specific 
algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to this 
work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started as 
a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus competing 
ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent after adoption 
of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG can discuss adding 
any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted signaling draft (with proper 
attribution given as appropriate), and two, for the authors of 
draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document without the 
signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology algorithm. This 
new focused document can be considered in parallel along with the other 
algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't expect 
a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will help us move 
forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.

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Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-13 Thread Huzhibo
Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, IGP Reduce Flooding 
still have some problem needs to be solved, for example, how to ensure the 
reliability of Flooding in a multi-point failure scenario. The way to solve 
these problems in a distributed and centralized manner may be different. 
Therefore, it is recommended to promote separately and continue to conduct 
research in their respective directions.

Ths

Zhibo

-Original Message-
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:38 AM
To: 'Christian Hopps' ; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR 
poll.

Hi, Christian:

Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, in which
one(draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02) focuses on the centralized mode and the 
other(draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) focuses on the distributed mode.

The centralized mode for is one straightforward way to realize the flooding 
reduction, and I admire Tony Li give his solution first. But from the 
consideration of solution robustness, the distributed mode may be more 
promising.
My consideration for distributed mode is that it should not cover only the 
algorithm, more contents need to be standardized in future. Huaimo has one good 
start point for distributed mode, and he also gives abundant thoughts for the 
centralized mode that the current version of
draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 has not covered yet.

Proposal for the name of two drafts may be 
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-centralized-mode and 
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-distributed-mode.


Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited 
Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a
way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any
specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to
this work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started
as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus
competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent
after adoption of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG
can discuss adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted
signaling draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for
the authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document
without the signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology
algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in parallel along
with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't
expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will
help us move forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.

___
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-13 Thread Guyunan (Yunan Gu, IP Technology Research Dept. NW)
Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time +1


BR,

Yunan


-Original Message-
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:38 AM
To: 'Christian Hopps' ; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR 
poll.

Hi, Christian:

Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, in which
one(draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02) focuses on the centralized mode and the 
other(draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) focuses on the distributed mode.

The centralized mode for is one straightforward way to realize the flooding 
reduction, and I admire Tony Li give his solution first. But from the 
consideration of solution robustness, the distributed mode may be more 
promising.
My consideration for distributed mode is that it should not cover only the 
algorithm, more contents need to be standardized in future. Huaimo has one good 
start point for distributed mode, and he also gives abundant thoughts for the 
centralized mode that the current version of
draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 has not covered yet.

Proposal for the name of two drafts may be 
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-centralized-mode and 
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-distributed-mode.


Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R and Operation Support Department China Telecom Corporation Limited 
Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a
way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any
specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to
this work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started
as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus
competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent
after adoption of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG
can discuss adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted
signaling draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for
the authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document
without the signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology
algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in parallel along
with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't
expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will
help us move forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.

___
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Re: [Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-13 Thread Lizhenbin
Hi Chris & Acee,
I have explained my concerns the previous mails. In order to avoid unnecessary 
overlap, I supports the adoption of the drafts like follows:
- both drafts are adopted at the same time keeping draft-li-dynamic-flooding 
focus on the centralized solution and draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction on the 
distributed solution.
- draft-li-dynamic-flooding can keep on refining the centralized solution 
without mentioning distributed solutions.
- draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction can keep on refining the distributed 
solutions. For the signaling which can be shared by the two modes, the draft 
can indicate the distributed solutions reuse the signaling defined in 
draft-li-dynamic-flooding without defining new signaling. 
- both drafts change the draft names to reflect different solutions without 
causing confusion.


Thanks & Regards,
Zhenbin (Robin)



-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org]
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a
way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any
specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to
this work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started
as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus
competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent
after adoption of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG
can discuss adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted
signaling draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for
the authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document
without the signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology
algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in parallel along
with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't
expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will
help us move forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.

___
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
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[Lsr] 答复: WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR poll.

2019-02-13 Thread Aijun Wang
Hi, Christian:

Supports for the adoption of two drafts at the same time, in which
one(draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02) focuses on the centralized mode and
the other(draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) focuses on the distributed
mode.

The centralized mode for is one straightforward way to realize the flooding
reduction, and I admire Tony Li give his solution first. But from the
consideration of solution robustness, the distributed mode may be more
promising.
My consideration for distributed mode is that it should not cover only the
algorithm, more contents need to be standardized in future. Huaimo has one
good start point for distributed mode, and he also gives abundant thoughts
for the centralized mode that the current version of
draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 has not covered yet.

Proposal for the name of two drafts may be
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-centralized-mode and
draft-ietf-lsr-flooding-reduction-distributed-mode.


Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R and Operation Support Department
China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

-邮件原件-
发件人: Christian Hopps [mailto:cho...@chopps.org] 
发送时间: 2019年2月11日 18:45
收件人: lsr@ietf.org
抄送: lsr-cha...@ietf.org; lsr-...@ietf.org; cho...@chopps.org
主题: [Lsr] WG Adoption Call for draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 + IPR
poll.


Hi Folks,

We are starting a 2 week adoption call on draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02.

The aim of this document is to describe the problem space and standardize a
way to signal dynamic flooding information. It does not standardize any
specific algorithm for flooding topology creation.

Authors please respond indicating if you are aware of any IPR related to
this work.

We also have another draft (draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01) that started
as a distributed flooding topology algorithm and morphed into that plus
competing ideas on signaling of flooding topology information. The intent
after adoption of draft-li-lsr-dynamic-flooding-02 is two-fold. One, the WG
can discuss adding any signaling ideas from this work to the adopted
signaling draft (with proper attribution given as appropriate), and two, for
the authors of draft-cc-lsr-flooding-reduction-01 to publish a new document
without the signaling portion and instead focus on their flooding topology
algorithm. This new focused document can be considered in parallel along
with the other algorithm work that has been proposed.

Flooding topology creation is seen as a hard problem for which we don't
expect a one-size-fits-all solution. Taking the steps outlined above will
help us move forward on the solutions.

Thanks,
Chris & Acee.
LSR WG Chairs.

___
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