Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[Dallas Wiebelhaus]

The U-Lite Creator Shae Smittle is on board for this endeavor:

http://u-lite.org/content/status-updates

You guys should relax , these things take a while and everyone is busy ,
Things are progressing at individual levels right now so that once everyone
gets together for some real progress we will all have our ducks in a row.
But it's important to note that I'm not a founder of this thing nor anyone
particularly special.
So I have no "Insider information" But I'm sure things will start to
progressing shortly. I've been testing the hell out of builds and
dependencies and packages so when the time comes and the final hammer falls
on "Burning software? Anyone , So & so doesn't require this that and the
other , but this does and the gui is horrid , I suggest we look into this ,
Because it's perfect for this application!" And that man can say that with
confidence because he's hammered it out on his own and knows for a fact what
the deal is.

"Just another distro" type things move quickly without much real thought or
direction , this on the other hand is not like that , this will take time
and patience and perseverance.

Cheers!

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:17 PM, jon york  wrote:

>  I am glad to see that I am not alone with these concerns for the project.
> I do not wish to be the stick in the wheel, nor the stormy little raincloud.
> Personally, computing minimalism is something I feel strongly about, and
> really wish this trend to take wind. One thing that has been bugging me
> since I took part of this, is the seemingly (to me anyways) lack of
> cohesiveness, or coordination of this project. It has been two weeks, and
> still I see no advancement. Maybe I am too far removed, but if not, I have
> the time everyday of the week to read and coordinate emails. If possible,
> and if wished, I could conceivably arrange those contributors into smaller,
> cohesive groups which will allow us to be an official release for 9.10.
>
> I do not mean to step over any toes, or insult anyone by this. I am simply
> stating that I have the time, and the willingness to be a project
> coordinator. If there is one such coordinator, (mario?) I offer my help to
> him or her
>
> Jon York
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 02:21:32 +0100
> > From: lpro...@gmail.com
> > To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's
>
> >
> > 2009/7/7 jon york :
> > > Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these
> are
> > > serious questions that need to be answered
> > >
> > > in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> > > "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> > > switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> >
> > I concur.
> >
> > I am somewhat dismayed by what I've read so far. This seems to me to
> > be just another gratuitous "let's do a version of Ubuntu with our
> > favourite desktop environment on it" effort to me, frankly.
> >
> > Firstly, there is an existing effort to create a lightweight version
> > of Ubuntu. It's called U-Lite (formerly Ubuntu Lite until Canonical
> > had Words), being developed largely solo by Shae Smittle.
> >
> > http://u-lite.org/
> >
> > So Lubuntu seems to be rather duplicating this effort.
> >
> > Secondly, If Lubuntu wants to be a lightweight distro for low-end
> > machines, then there is simply no point including large, heavyweight
> > apps such as OpenOffice.
> >
> > There is no reason that a cut-down Linux should not run happily on 15
> > to 20 year old PC hardware - and back in those days, when production
> > volumes were much lower and PCs were much more expensive, they were
> > built of higher-quality components and are quite likely to still be
> > working fine.
> >
> > 192MB of RAM and a few gig of disk is not a particularly lightweight
> > PC. That spec will run Windows XP if you're patient, and a hundred
> > other Linux distros. It will, for example, run Xubuntu quite well.
> >
> > The big gap in the Linux ecosystem is lower down than that. It is for
> > machines which were meant for Windows 98: 64-128MB RAM and 1GB of disk
> > or less.
> >
> > Yes, distros like Puppy Linux and Damn Small Linux will run on this,
> > but they are dramatically constrained and both are designed to run
> > from bootable CDs, not to be installed onto a hard disk. This poses
> > various problems.
> > [1] They are not easy to install.
> > [2] Once installed, they are not easy to keep updated.
> > [3] It's also not trivial to add new applications, remove existing
> > ones and so on.
> > [4] Many very old, very low-spec PCs can't boot from CD anyway. Indeed
> > of my own half a dozen PCs still in regular use, none can boot off a
> > USB stick, and these are all from the 21st century and run modern OSs
> > just fine.
> >
> > There is a real gap in the market for a VERY lightweight Linux desktop
> > aimed at such machines. Bear in mind, if it runs on a 64MB box in
> > 500MB of disk, it will 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[jon york]

I am glad to see that I am not alone with these concerns for the project. I do 
not wish to be the stick in the wheel, nor the stormy little raincloud. 
Personally, computing minimalism is something I feel strongly about, and really 
wish this trend to take wind. One thing that has been bugging me since I took 
part of this, is the seemingly (to me anyways) lack of cohesiveness, or 
coordination of this project. It has been two weeks, and still I see no 
advancement. Maybe I am too far removed, but if not, I have the time everyday 
of the week to read and coordinate emails. If possible, and if wished, I could 
conceivably arrange those contributors into smaller, cohesive groups which will 
allow us to be an official release for 9.10. 

I do not mean to step over any toes, or insult anyone by this. I am simply 
stating that I have the time, and the willingness to be a project coordinator. 
If there is one such coordinator, (mario?) I offer my help to him or her

Jon York



> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 02:21:32 +0100
> From: lpro...@gmail.com
> To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's
> 
> 2009/7/7 jon york :
> > Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these are
> > serious questions that need to be answered
> >
> > in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> > "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> > switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> 
> I concur.
> 
> I am somewhat dismayed by what I've read so far. This seems to me to
> be just another gratuitous "let's do a version of Ubuntu with our
> favourite desktop environment on it" effort to me, frankly.
> 
> Firstly, there is an existing effort to create a lightweight version
> of Ubuntu. It's called U-Lite (formerly Ubuntu Lite until Canonical
> had Words), being developed largely solo by Shae Smittle.
> 
> http://u-lite.org/
> 
> So Lubuntu seems to be rather duplicating this effort.
> 
> Secondly, If Lubuntu wants to be a lightweight distro for low-end
> machines, then there is simply no point including large, heavyweight
> apps such as OpenOffice.
> 
> There is no reason that a cut-down Linux should not run happily on 15
> to 20 year old PC hardware - and back in those days, when production
> volumes were much lower and PCs were much more expensive, they were
> built of higher-quality components and are quite likely to still be
> working fine.
> 
> 192MB of RAM and a few gig of disk is not a particularly lightweight
> PC. That spec will run Windows XP if you're patient, and a hundred
> other Linux distros. It will, for example, run Xubuntu quite well.
> 
> The big gap in the Linux ecosystem is lower down than that. It is for
> machines which were meant for Windows 98: 64-128MB RAM and 1GB of disk
> or less.
> 
> Yes, distros like Puppy Linux and Damn Small Linux will run on this,
> but they are dramatically constrained and both are designed to run
> from bootable CDs, not to be installed onto a hard disk. This poses
> various problems.
> [1] They are not easy to install.
> [2] Once installed, they are not easy to keep updated.
> [3] It's also not trivial to add new applications, remove existing
> ones and so on.
> [4] Many very old, very low-spec PCs can't boot from CD anyway. Indeed
> of my own half a dozen PCs still in regular use, none can boot off a
> USB stick, and these are all from the 21st century and run modern OSs
> just fine.
> 
> There is a real gap in the market for a VERY lightweight Linux desktop
> aimed at such machines. Bear in mind, if it runs on a 64MB box in
> 500MB of disk, it will *fly* along on a more modern PC. Aiming at
> low-end kit does not limit you to low-end kit.
> 
> LXDE might be just the thing for it, too.
> 
> But at the moment, it seems to me that the team behind Lubuntu:
> [a] are rather pointedly snubbing Shae and the U-Lite project
> [b] lack clear demarcation either from U-Lite or from any other
> flavour of Ubuntu
> [c] are including tools that disqualify them from their alleged goal
> of running on moderately low-end kit which
> [d] would appear to distinctly overlap with the objectives of Xubuntu,
> just for starters.
> 
> My most serious concerns could be expressed thus:
> - firstly, pick some proper lightweight apps to go with your
> lightweight desktop. There is no point in just offering the same apps
> as any other Ubuntu variant.
> - secondly, stick to one toolkit or set of libraries when doing this,
> or you will bloat your distro out with a horrendous mix of GNOME
> libraries and KDE libraries and LXDE libraries and so on.
> - thirdly, make it a proper, really lightweight distro for really
> low-end kit. There is an abundance of choice in terms of distros for
> relatively modern kit, and with nothing to distinguish it, Lubuntu is
> doomed to obscurity.
> 
> Set a target - e.g. not more than 250MB of binaries on media, or 500MB
> installed on disk  - something

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[Liam Proven]

2009/7/7 jon york :
> Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these are
> serious questions that need to be answered
>
> in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> switch, or else this project will eventually fail.

I concur.

I am somewhat dismayed by what I've read so far. This seems to me to
be just another gratuitous "let's do a version of Ubuntu with our
favourite desktop environment on it" effort to me, frankly.

Firstly, there is an existing effort to create a lightweight version
of Ubuntu. It's called U-Lite (formerly Ubuntu Lite until Canonical
had Words), being developed largely solo by Shae Smittle.

http://u-lite.org/

So Lubuntu seems to be rather duplicating this effort.

Secondly, If Lubuntu wants to be a lightweight distro for low-end
machines, then there is simply no point including large, heavyweight
apps such as OpenOffice.

There is no reason that a cut-down Linux should not run happily on 15
to 20 year old PC hardware - and back in those days, when production
volumes were much lower and PCs were much more expensive, they were
built of higher-quality components and are quite likely to still be
working fine.

192MB of RAM and a few gig of disk is not a particularly lightweight
PC. That spec will run Windows XP if you're patient, and a hundred
other Linux distros. It will, for example, run Xubuntu quite well.

The big gap in the Linux ecosystem is lower down than that. It is for
machines which were meant for Windows 98: 64-128MB RAM and 1GB of disk
or less.

Yes, distros like Puppy Linux and Damn Small Linux will run on this,
but they are dramatically constrained and both are designed to run
from bootable CDs, not to be installed onto a hard disk. This poses
various problems.
[1] They are not easy to install.
[2] Once installed, they are not easy to keep updated.
[3] It's also not trivial to add new applications, remove existing
ones and so on.
[4] Many very old, very low-spec PCs can't boot from CD anyway. Indeed
of my own half a dozen PCs still in regular use, none can boot off a
USB stick, and these are all from the 21st century and run modern OSs
just fine.

There is a real gap in the market for a VERY lightweight Linux desktop
aimed at such machines. Bear in mind, if it runs on a 64MB box in
500MB of disk, it will *fly* along on a more modern PC. Aiming at
low-end kit does not limit you to low-end kit.

LXDE might be just the thing for it, too.

But at the moment, it seems to me that the team behind Lubuntu:
[a] are rather pointedly snubbing Shae and the U-Lite project
[b] lack clear demarcation either from U-Lite or from any other
flavour of Ubuntu
[c] are including tools that disqualify them from their alleged goal
of running on moderately low-end kit which
[d] would appear to distinctly overlap with the objectives of Xubuntu,
just for starters.

My most serious concerns could be expressed thus:
- firstly, pick some proper lightweight apps to go with your
lightweight desktop. There is no point in just offering the same apps
as any other Ubuntu variant.
- secondly, stick to one toolkit or set of libraries when doing this,
or you will bloat your distro out with a horrendous mix of GNOME
libraries and KDE libraries and LXDE libraries and so on.
- thirdly, make it a proper, really lightweight distro for really
low-end kit. There is an abundance of choice in terms of distros for
relatively modern kit, and with nothing to distinguish it, Lubuntu is
doomed to obscurity.

Set a target - e.g. not more than 250MB of binaries on media, or 500MB
installed on disk  - something that allows for more functionality than
one of the 50MB or 100MB business-card-CD or mini-3"-CD distros - and
deliver a proper, installable, updateable, full distro with the power
of APT-GET, rather than just another LiveCD.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[Dallas Wiebelhaus]

It may Also benefit you to read what's already in place:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/UbuntuLxdeDesktop

http://www.lxde.org/

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop



On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:49 PM, David Sugar wrote:

> Perhaps this offers an opportunity for someone to put together an
> initial Lubuntu "FAQ" on the wiki...
>
> jon york wrote:
> > Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these
> > are serious questions that need to be answered
> >
> > in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> > "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> > switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> >
> > in light of this, here are my questions
> >
> > 1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not
> offer?
> > 2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
> > 3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
> > 4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
> > 5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram
> > usage, performance and functionality?
> > 6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?
> >
> > these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be
> > addressed. I own a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and I and
> > currently in university studying accounting and marketing. regardless of
> > how we feel about it, we are competing for market share with countless
> > Linux's including which many variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is
> > this system competing against all distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and
> > Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be aimed for the Windows/mac
> > user to switch.
> >
> > Jon York
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: 
> > https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
> > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : 
> > https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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> https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
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>
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[David Sugar]

Perhaps this offers an opportunity for someone to put together an
initial Lubuntu "FAQ" on the wiki...

jon york wrote:
> Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these
> are serious questions that need to be answered
> 
> in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then
> "because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and
> switch, or else this project will eventually fail.
> 
> in light of this, here are my questions
> 
> 1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not offer?
> 2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
> 3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
> 4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
> 5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram
> usage, performance and functionality?
> 6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?
> 
> these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be
> addressed. I own a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and I and
> currently in university studying accounting and marketing. regardless of
> how we feel about it, we are competing for market share with countless
> Linux's including which many variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is
> this system competing against all distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and
> Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be aimed for the Windows/mac
> user to switch.
> 
> Jon York
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
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begin:vcard
fn:David Sugar
n:Sugar;David
org:Canonical
adr:;;United States
email;internet:david.su...@canonical.com
title:Mobile Developer
tel;work:+1 609 465 5336
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.canonical.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

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[Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

[jon york]

Alright, not that I want to start any E-fights, but I do believe these are 
serious questions that need to be answered

in any project, there needs to be a driving reason behind it other then 
"because", also, there needs to be a reason for people to try it, and switch, 
or else this project will eventually fail.

in light of this, here are my questions

1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not offer?
2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?
3- what is our geographic and demographic target?
4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?
5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram usage, 
performance and functionality?
6- what is the projected usage curve for this project?

these are hard questions to answer, however they do need to be addressed. I own 
a computer repair and sale company in Canada, and I and currently in university 
studying accounting and marketing. regardless of how we feel about it, we are 
competing for market share with countless Linux's including which many 
variants, official or not of Ubuntu. Is this system competing against all 
distro's? Xubuntu only? Ubuntu and Xubuntu? #!? or is it a system that will be 
aimed for the Windows/mac user to switch.

Jon York

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[Lubuntu-desktop] PCmanFM Trash Can

[jon york]

Hi guys,

just wanted to know if this issue was resolved or not, because for sure 
Canonical, as well as the following of Lubuntu will demand a trash can...

Jon York

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: lubuntu development model - Seeds vs UCK

[Mario Behling]

Hello,

yes, I agree. Seeds is the way to go.

Best,

Mario

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM, jon york wrote:
> Should we not stick with seeds if that is what ubuntu uses? seems to me
> seeds is an easier way to maintain long term sustainability and no "oops, i
> forgot to add this in UCK" ive used UCK and Uck-like methods for remasters,
> and its a pain when you forget something. However, with seeds, it seems like
> it would lessen then risk of getting oopses.
>
> Jon York
>
>
>
>> From: gbiz...@gmail.com
>> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 16:47:41 -0300
>> To: elf...@yahoo.com
>> CC: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
>> Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: lubuntu development model - Seeds vs
>> UCK
>>
>> In viewing the DEMO of reconstructor 3.0, it looks like it will do a
>> shared project, and it looks web based???
>>
>> Glen
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Luther Goh Lu Feng
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > For anyone interested in creating the builds, you may wish to refer to
>> > the forwarded email.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > - Forwarded Message 
>> >> From: Mario Behling 
>> >> To: Lubuntu 
>> >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:00:54 AM
>> >> Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] lubuntu development model - Seeds vs UCK
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> we had a talk among different people about a good model for building
>> >> the lubuntu distribution. A sustainable model suggested by some is the
>> >> Seed model practiced by the Xubuntu developers.
>> >>
>> >> There are solutions like Ubuntu Customization Kid
>> >> (http://uck.sourceforge.net´) and Reconstructor
>> >> (http://reconstructor.aperantis.com) out there. However, they have
>> >> some drawbacks and I am not sure how we can build a model to include
>> >> different people in the process.
>> >>
>> >> I see the seeds model as a viable way to make lubuntu sustainable.
>> >> There is a wiki page on the kubuntu wiki with more information:
>> >>
>> >> Seeds are the lists of packages we want to include in the
>> >> distribution. The minimal, boot, standard, desktop, and either ship or
>> >> live seeds go onto our CDs. Xubuntu seeds, being built on top of
>> >> Ubuntu, inherit a shared set of seeds called the "platform" seeds.
>> >> These platform seeds are maintained by Ubuntu Core Developers whereas
>> >> the Xubuntu seeds are primarily taken care of by Xubuntu developers.
>> >> Xubuntu seeds (as with all Ubuntu flavors) manage their seeds using
>> >> the bazaar revision control system and host them on launchpad (build
>> >> scripts pull the official seeds to build the cd).
>> >> (https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Xubuntu/Development/Build)
>> >>
>> >> More information on Seed Management here
>> >> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/SeedManagement.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think about it?
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >>
>> >> Mario
>> >>
>> >>

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