Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:14:46 -0800 Jonathan Marsden wrote: > On 12/17/2011 04:19 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: > > > 2011/12/17 Gabriel Salles > > > >> Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and > >> only download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some > >> home users do this if they have few machines. > > > > Off topic, but just to know, can you point me on how to do that? > > > Use any of the relevant packages for doing that, such as apt-mirror, > apt-proxy or apt-cacher-ng . > > There's an ancient tutorial on howtoforge that might still be relevant, > if you need a tutorial (reading the docs that come with the package is > better, IMO!). http://www.howtoforge.com/local_debian_ubuntu_mirror > That doc still works, or did 18 months ago. Though I now use squid http://www.squid-cache.org/ as it just seems easier/simpler. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users (popularity-contest)
Le 12/18/2011 03:03 AM, Jonathan Marsden a écrit : > Will whatever new survey you are proposing clearly do better than this? > Would enhancing popularity-contest and its associated infrastructure so > it *does* distinguish between the various flavours of Ubuntu be as > useful, or more useful, than your proposal? How do current numbers of > users (as reported by popcon) installing lubuntu-desktop or lxde-common > compare to those installing ubuntu-desktop, for example? > > Overall, I recommend using existing tools and data over trying to build > a new survey mechanism from scratch. Yes, popcon is handy for pure statistics, but you can't use it for feedbacks about the usability of the system, or what user would like to see in priority. Of course, using a survey is not 100% reliable, but I don't think any tools which gather this type of data is 100% reliable :) I think a survey done once after each release, could be a good source of information. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Le 12/17/2011 04:32 PM, Gabriel Salles a écrit : > I don't know if it is possible, but is there a way of Canonical count > how many IPs does an update? Maybe some specific update, like > software-center, lxterminal... I know that some computers still > doesn't use internet, but most of them use. It was proposed by Canonical to count Ubuntu users, but some people was against this, they don't like been tracking or that their OS sending data by default. So, it was abandoned. One thing you can do, it's enable popcon support : open software-properties-gtk, go to Statistics, and click on the checkbox. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users (popularity-contest)
On 12/17/2011 04:36 PM, Philip wrote: > Would it be possible to include something like a voluntary survey > with a round of updates? That would be better than raw numbers, and > the users who care enough to fill it out would probably provide the > best data. Would this definitely be "better than raw numbers"? How do you know this? That's a *very* bold statement -- do you have data to back it up? It could accidentally be a very biased sample; "users who care enough" might all be significantly more experienced and techie than "users who do not care enough", for example, and so exhibit rather different usage patterns. And now, if we were to trust the survey data, we might accidentally skew our decisions based on this biased sample, and lose our less-techie users... not what we want. Or, maybe, our experienced users all have lots of work to do and lots of spam email, and will reflexively reject all survey requests, but newcomers are so enthusiastic that they will fill them in; in that case you could get the opposite bias. It seems to me that you cannot be sure your survey data would be "better" unless you have done all kinds of work (perhaps field trials, and appropriate statistical analysis of the results) to demonstrate that. Have you in fact done that work? As you must be aware, since you will already have researched this field in some depth before proposing something new, the existing popularity-contest package is a well established attempt to gather this kind of data, from all those who enable it, based on what people install, rather than on what they run. Debian automatically graphs the data it provides, all the way back to at least 2004, for example: http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=bash There is Ubuntu data at http://popcon.ubuntu.com too. I do not know whether popcon in its current form can distinguish between data from Lubuntu and data from Ubuntu; I suspect not. Will whatever new survey you are proposing clearly do better than this? Would enhancing popularity-contest and its associated infrastructure so it *does* distinguish between the various flavours of Ubuntu be as useful, or more useful, than your proposal? How do current numbers of users (as reported by popcon) installing lubuntu-desktop or lxde-common compare to those installing ubuntu-desktop, for example? Overall, I recommend using existing tools and data over trying to build a new survey mechanism from scratch. Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On 12/17/2011 04:19 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: > 2011/12/17 Gabriel Salles >> Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and >> only download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some >> home users do this if they have few machines. > Off topic, but just to know, can you point me on how to do that? Use any of the relevant packages for doing that, such as apt-mirror, apt-proxy or apt-cacher-ng . There's an ancient tutorial on howtoforge that might still be relevant, if you need a tutorial (reading the docs that come with the package is better, IMO!). http://www.howtoforge.com/local_debian_ubuntu_mirror Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Let me clarify with an example. I don't use any of the penguin games that come with Lubuntu. I'm assuming most of you don't either. If you had data that said virtually no Lubuntu users used the games, you could take that into consideration when trying to balance out what to include in the next version. It seems you like guys speculate a lot about what your users are doing, instead of knowing, and this leads to difficult decision-making processes. More data might make it easier to, for instance, decide which browser to include. And I don't imply that data should *dictate* decisions--it should simply be a factor. Would it be possible to include something like a voluntary survey with a round of updates? That would be better than raw numbers, and the users who care enough to fill it out would probably provide the best data. Also: I don't care much about popularity, and I think the numbers at distrowatch are little more than meaningless. I'm talking about getting data from the committed Lubuntu users. PF On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > Le 12/17/2011 03:08 AM, Philip a écrit : >> A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current >> number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a >> clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little >> dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information >> about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine >> a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how >> they use it? > I think information on how users use the system, and what they want from > it is always interesting. The problem is to organize the collect of the > information in a way it's easy to analyze. A survey could be a good idea > to gather this type of information. > > Also, having popular requests from users doesn't mean we will implement > them :) We have to keep with our policy : keep it fast and easy to use :) > > About the number of users, I personally doesn't care too much. Sure, > having a good rank in Distrowatch is nice, but we can live without it :) > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
2011/12/17 Gabriel Salles > Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and only > download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some home users > do this if they have few machines. > Off topic, but just to know, can you point me on how to do that? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
> That won't give an accurate figure either. Companies, universities, etc. > will have a local repo or cache and only download the update once for > thousands of machines. Even some home users do this if they have few > machines. > > > -- > Yorvyk Yes, I know. But I can't think in a best way... Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:32:48 -0200 Gabriel Salles wrote: > Hi all > > I don't know if it is possible, but is there a way of Canonical count > how many IPs does an update? Maybe some specific update, like > software-center, lxterminal... I know that some computers still > doesn't use internet, but most of them use. > That won't give an accurate figure either. Companies, universities, etc. will have a local repo or cache and only download the update once for thousands of machines. Even some home users do this if they have few machines. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Hi all I don't know if it is possible, but is there a way of Canonical count how many IPs does an update? Maybe some specific update, like software-center, lxterminal... I know that some computers still doesn't use internet, but most of them use. Att, Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Le 12/17/2011 03:08 AM, Philip a écrit : > A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current > number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a > clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little > dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information > about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine > a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how > they use it? I think information on how users use the system, and what they want from it is always interesting. The problem is to organize the collect of the information in a way it's easy to analyze. A survey could be a good idea to gather this type of information. Also, having popular requests from users doesn't mean we will implement them :) We have to keep with our policy : keep it fast and easy to use :) About the number of users, I personally doesn't care too much. Sure, having a good rank in Distrowatch is nice, but we can live without it :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 21:08:57 -0500 Philip wrote: > Hi all, > > First, let me say thank you to everyone on the Lubuntu team. I have > been using Lubuntu for over a year now, and it is quite possibly the > fastest, most efficient operating system I have ever used (and I have > used many). Keep up the extraordinary work. > > A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current > number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a > clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little > dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information > about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine > a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how > they use it? > > I don't ask this because I want to burden you with another task. I > may be able to offer some help myself. I like Lubuntu, and intend to > use it well into the future. But operating systems have demonstrated > a clear tendency to eventually lose touch with and alienate their > userbase. I think Lubuntu developers, being better than average, > might recognize this common problem, and take steps to safeguard > against it. One safeguard might be the collection of this data. > > What do you think? > > Philip Fielding > Every Linux distribution would like to know how many users it has. Short of it 'phoning home' every so often nobody seems to have any idea how to get numbers of users. Estimating numbers of users from downloads is fraught with problems. I've installed both Lubuntu and Ubuntu a several machines from the one download of each ISO. Others may download the ISO to try or do a review and never use it again. Some people use the Distrowatch Page Hit Ranking as an indication of usage but, as pointed out on Linux Outlaws this is more an indication of 'mind share' rather than usage. So it's just a case of wild guess work in the end. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Users
Hi all, First, let me say thank you to everyone on the Lubuntu team. I have been using Lubuntu for over a year now, and it is quite possibly the fastest, most efficient operating system I have ever used (and I have used many). Keep up the extraordinary work. A few weeks ago on this list, a question was raised about the current number of Lubuntu users. I was a little surprised that no one had a clear idea, and that estimates varied widely. It seems a little dangerous from a development standpoint to have so little information about your userbase, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be valuable to determine a way of gathering data about how many people use Lubuntu, and how they use it? I don't ask this because I want to burden you with another task. I may be able to offer some help myself. I like Lubuntu, and intend to use it well into the future. But operating systems have demonstrated a clear tendency to eventually lose touch with and alienate their userbase. I think Lubuntu developers, being better than average, might recognize this common problem, and take steps to safeguard against it. One safeguard might be the collection of this data. What do you think? Philip Fielding ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
