Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi Ralf,

On 12 November 2017 at 16:54, Ralf Mardorf 
wrote:

> Smartctl is not perfect, but another link in the chain, even unplugging
> SATA cables and connecting them again is important and so on and so
> forth...
>
On a system I refurbished recently, memtest86+ passed and dban failed. I
booted into a live CD, queried smartctl and was told everything was OK.
After some research I was told that modern hard drives tend to fail
suddenly.

I removed the hard drive, put a replacement in, installed lubuntu on it and
then used it on and off for a while as my final testing. It has now been
given to its new home.

Just running one test, especially the free as in beer Memtest release
> gains absolutely nothing, at least taking a look at /var/log,
> journalctl and Co in combination with software testing hardware and
> remounting, cleaning, etc. should be done. More experienced users could
> use coolant spray etc. ...
>

I agree - to a point - I have found memtest86+ to be useful - as the first
part of a testing process.

When I answered the previous question with info to run memtest86+, I was
not advocating _only_ running memtest86+, just that I believed it would be
helpful to run the test and that the questioner would be able to get back
to this list with the results and then people (such as yourself) could
offer further advice.

BW,


Ian

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ralf Mardorf]

PS:

If RAM bars mounted to computer A should fail Memtest, do the same RAM
bars fail Memtest when mounted to computer B?

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:37:50 +, Ian Bruntlett wrote:
>Given personal experience of refurbishing computers for the Contact
>Computer Wombling/Refurbishing Project, I have found that when a
>computer I'm working on fails to run memtest86+ , that computer is not
>reliable enough for normal use. After a memtest86+ test has been
>passed, I wipe the hard drive using dban. If that fails, it is a
>strong indication that I'm going to have to change the hard drive.

I'm using Memtest myself as a point of reference to keep in mind, but
de facto RAM could be 100% ok after it failed and it could be borked
after it passed Memtest, let alone that one of the computers I tested
always failed when using Memtest from Ubuntu repositories and
always passed Memtest of the same version, when using a Memtest live
CD, both after shut down and disconnecting the PC from the mains.

There are tons of other possibilities that could cause issues, even
clearing CMOS _without_ replacing the battery could solve a lot of
issues.

Just running Memtest gains absolutely nothing. Running Memtest in
combination with other tests and actions is very helpful.

Smartctl is not perfect, but another link in the chain, even unplugging
SATA cables and connecting them again is important and so on and so
forth...

Just running one test, especially the free as in beer Memtest release
gains absolutely nothing, at least taking a look at /var/log,
journalctl and Co in combination with software testing hardware and
remounting, cleaning, etc. should be done. More experienced users could
use coolant spray etc. ...

Always keep in mind that measuring a faulty system by software running
on this system is fishy. A repair shop always tests equipment with
other equipment galvanically isolated from the mains.

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi Ralf et al,

On 12 November 2017 at 14:45, Ralf Mardorf 
wrote:

> Apart from this, it might have been a BIOS issue and maybe the RAM
> wasn't bad. Memtest is _not_ reliable. Using Memtest makes sense, but
> you shouldn't trust it.
>
> If RAM shouldn't pass Memtest you need to rule out other issues, at
> least you should replug the RAM bars.
>

Given personal experience of refurbishing computers for the Contact
Computer Wombling/Refurbishing Project, I have found that when a computer
I'm working on fails to run memtest86+ , that computer is not reliable
enough for normal use. After a memtest86+ test has been passed, I wipe the
hard drive using dban. If that fails, it is a strong indication that I'm
going to have to change the hard drive.

HTH,


Ian

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:27:39 -0700, Mark F wrote:
>It was so strange. I used Windows 95% of the time. It didn't freeze
>(even when installing it). But, for some reason Linux touched that bad
>memory in a way that caused my computer to hang.

Linux does use all available RAM, not only regarding Physical Address
Extension (PAE). 1. Windows might not have provided Physical Address
Extension (PAE). 2. Even if Windows should have had access to all
available RAM, it not necessarily does use all available RAM to cache
or as tmpfs or ... as Linux does.

Apart from this, it might have been a BIOS issue and maybe the RAM
wasn't bad. Memtest is _not_ reliable. Using Memtest makes sense, but
you shouldn't trust it.

If RAM shouldn't pass Memtest you need to rule out other issues, at
least you should replug the RAM bars.

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Mark F]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 7:05 AM, Ian Bruntlett 
wrote:

>
> One thing to do is check for memory problems.
> ,,,
> * Use the down arrow key to select "Memory test (memtest86+)
>
...


That's *excellent* advice. About 20 years ago I would occasionally install
Linux. For a couple years I couldn't get it to install. It would freeze. I
thought it was a bad hard drive, or something about Linux had changed.
Someone mentioned "memtest" and sure enough, I had a bad memory stick.

It was so strange. I used Windows 95% of the time. It didn't freeze (even
when installing it). But, for some reason Linux touched that bad memory in
a way that caused my computer to hang. I would have never thought of memory
if someone hadn't mentioned it. (Even after experiencing it, I don't think
testing memory would come to mind very quickly.).

Mark
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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi All,

On 11 November 2017 at 15:56, Aere Greenway 
wrote:

> Does the system hang (can't move mouse pointer, or do other things), or
> does the browser crash, and appear to hang as the crash-reporter takes a
> long time (and system resources) to gather information about the crash?
>
> Are you updating to (or installing) 17.10?
>
> On 17.10 (as it was on 17.04), if you have a Pentium-3 machine, it will
> update to the new level just fine, and you can do other things, but every
> time you try to run an Internet browser (any Internet browser), the browser
> will crash.
>
That reminds me... Lucas Dias gave me this advice for running Firefox on
old computers...








*Do you trying to use Firefox ESR? There is a PPA for Firefox 52
ESR:https://launchpad.net/~jonathonf/+archive/ubuntu/firefox-esr
In:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/your-hardware-no-longer-supported
*
HTH,


Ian

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Aere Greenway]

On 11/09/2017 07:03 PM, O Vagabundo wrote:
I need help in updating lubuntu today but when I try to open any 
browser the system hangs







O Vagabundo:

Does the system hang (can't move mouse pointer, or do other things), or 
does the browser crash, and appear to hang as the crash-reporter takes a 
long time (and system resources) to gather information about the crash?


Are you updating to (or installing) 17.10?

On 17.10 (as it was on 17.04), if you have a Pentium-3 machine, it will 
update to the new level just fine, and you can do other things, but 
every time you try to run an Internet browser (any Internet browser), 
the browser will crash.


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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 15:25:50 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>If you should use another browser, take a look at
>
>  name_of_the_browser --hel
   ^
   --help

FWIW if you shouldn't know the name of the browser's command you could
type the first letters of the name and then push the tab key

If I e.g. type

  google

and push the tab-key, I get recommendations

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ google-
google-chrome-stable  google-earth

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 14:05:44 +, Ian Bruntlett wrote:
>If you get any error from the memory testing, you need to get someone
>to help you with your hardware

Not necessarily, Memtest could fail. If the installed Memtest should
show errors, I still would use an original Memtest live media and run it
again, even if it's the same version of Memtest. If it also should
fail, I would unplug the RAM bars and then mount them again and repeat
Memtest from the live media. If it still would fail, I would test one
RAM bar after another mounted to the computer only.

However, if the RAM should pass the tests it not necessarily is ok or if
it should fail the tests it not necessarily is broken.

That the computer does freeze or what ever "hangs" should be for, could
be caused by different culprits. More often a disk fails, than RAM.
Taking a look at the disks with smartctl could be helpful, but also
isn't without failure.

Does only the browser cause issues? If so, are there any error messages,
e.g. in

   ~/.xsession-errors*

Does Ctrl+Alt+F-keys work? E.g.

  Ctrl+Alt+F2

then e.g. run

  killall name_of_the_browser

e.g.

  killall firefox

You could go back with

  Ctrl+Alt+F7

and then open a terminal and run the browser from command line, to
probably get clear output.

E.g. run

  firefox --safe-mode

and after that run

  firefox

perhaps running it with a new profile does help

  firefox --ProfileManager

If you should use another browser, take a look at

  name_of_the_browser --hel

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [lubuntu-users] Support

[Ian Bruntlett]

Hi,

On 10 November 2017 at 02:03, O Vagabundo  wrote:

> I need help in updating lubuntu today but when I try to open any browser
> the system hangs
>

One thing to do is check for memory problems.

With lubuntu already installed,
* Switch computer on
* Press and hold down both SHIFT keys
* You should get a black and white menu.
* Use the down arrow key to select "Memory test (memtest86+)
* Press ENTER
* You should get a blue and white screen and the computer will start
testing memory
* If you get any error from the memory testing, you need to get someone to
help you with your hardware

HTH,


Ian

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[lubuntu-users] Support

[O Vagabundo]

I need help in updating lubuntu today but when I try to open any browser
the system hangs
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[lubuntu-users] Support

[Leonardo Bergamo]

Please, I have read some articles about support of five years for Lubuntu 14.04 
and others articles about three years. What is the correct information? (I am 
brazilian and my english is not very good.)-- 
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