[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread David van Ooijen
   This time a reply after watching the video (test question: What's the
   colour of Steve's cat?).
   What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque style,
   cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be afraid
   to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway, the
   usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a written-out
   single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise. Whether a
   student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go beyond the
   formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the harmonic and
   contrapuntal tools  on the fingerboard as opposed to just on paper  to
   do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I don't
   think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I made a
   few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line on my
   website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo lessons
   by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51. But these
   are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
   contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably organ
   players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal compositions. I
   have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise baroque
   counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
   contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it should
   be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote so much
   better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding music, in
   gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
   contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
   Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
   written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 1 July 2015 at 14:49, Rob MacKillop [3]robmackil...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   
   I've long thought that there was something missing from the way
   most of
   us learn to play baroque music, whether on lute or guitar. Some of
   us
   have studied figured bass playing, it's something I particularly
   enjoyed doing, though I haven't done any for years. But rarely do
   we
   step beyond that practice, and I believe that only a very, very
   small
   percentage of us are happy improvising baroque counterpoint in Dm
   tuning.
   
   I was fascinated to learn that one of my jazz guitar heroes, Steve
   Herberman, teaches a class online called Going For Baroque. You
   have to
   buy the class, but an overview video is available:
   
   [1][4]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
   
   It would be really interesting to transfer his approach to the Dm
   lute.
   One would really get to know the instrument and tuning well, and
   discover many contrapuntal finger movements which could be used in
   improvising fugues or dance movements.
   
   I'd like to know your thoughts after watching the video.
   
   Rob MacKillop
   
   [2][5]www.robmackillop.net
   
   --
   
References
   
   1. [6]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
   2. [7]http://www.robmackillop.net/
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
   3. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   4. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
   5. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   6. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
   7. http://www.robmackillop.net/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread Martin Shepherd

Hi All,

Yes I agree improvisation is something to be introduced early on, not 
just as an advanced topic.  To do it properly one really needs some 
knowledge of composition, which unfortunately many amateur lute players 
lack.  I'm not thinking of anything very advanced here, just a very 
basic grounding in figured bass and counterpoint.  I wonder if someone 
could be persuaded to write a little snippet each quarter for Lute News?


Don't look at me, I'm too busy.

Martin

On 02/07/2015 10:31, Rob MacKillop wrote:

Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly with
contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm tuning
remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players rip
through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed. I
once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher, and
without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted Greene are
the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is closer
to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked out a
system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of introducing
improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see improv
becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to put off
until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will never
happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at stepped
levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
Rob

On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
wrote:

 This time a reply after watching the video (test question: What's
  the
 colour of Steve's cat?).
 What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
  style,
 cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
  afraid
 to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
  the
 usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a written-out
 single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
  Whether a
 student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
  beyond the
 formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the harmonic
  and
 contrapuntal tools   on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
  paper   to
 do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
  don't
 think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
  made a
 few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
  on my
 website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
  lessons
 by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51. But
  these
 are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
 contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
  organ
 players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
  compositions. I
 have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise baroque
 counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
 contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
  should
 be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote so
  much
 better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding
  music, in
 gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
 contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
 Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
 written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
 David
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [2][3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 On 1 July 2015 at 14:49, Rob MacKillop
  [3][4]robmackil...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  I've long thought that there was something missing from the
  way
 most of
  us learn to play baroque music, whether on lute or guitar.
  Some of
 us
  have studied figured bass playing, it's something I
  particularly
  enjoyed doing, though I haven't done any for years. But
  rarely do
 we
  step beyond that practice, and I believe that only a very,
  very
 small
  percentage of us are happy improvising baroque counterpoint
  in Dm
  tuning.
 
  I was fascinated to learn that one of my jazz guitar
  heroes, Steve
  Herberman, teaches a class online called Going For Baroque.
  You
 have to
  buy the class, but an overview video is available:
 
  

[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread Rob MacKillop
   Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly with
   contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm tuning
   remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players rip
   through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed. I
   once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher, and
   without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted Greene are
   the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is closer
   to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked out a
   system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
   So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of introducing
   improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see improv
   becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to put off
   until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will never
   happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at stepped
   levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
   Rob

   On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   wrote:

This time a reply after watching the video (test question: What's
 the
colour of Steve's cat?).
What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
 style,
cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
 afraid
to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
 the
usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a written-out
single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
 Whether a
student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
 beyond the
formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the harmonic
 and
contrapuntal tools   on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
 paper   to
do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
 don't
think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
 made a
few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
 on my
website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
 lessons
by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51. But
 these
are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
 organ
players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
 compositions. I
have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise baroque
counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
 should
be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote so
 much
better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding
 music, in
gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
David
***
David van Ooijen
[1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[2][3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
***
On 1 July 2015 at 14:49, Rob MacKillop
 [3][4]robmackil...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I've long thought that there was something missing from the
 way
most of
 us learn to play baroque music, whether on lute or guitar.
 Some of
us
 have studied figured bass playing, it's something I
 particularly
 enjoyed doing, though I haven't done any for years. But
 rarely do
we
 step beyond that practice, and I believe that only a very,
 very
small
 percentage of us are happy improvising baroque counterpoint
 in Dm
 tuning.

 I was fascinated to learn that one of my jazz guitar
 heroes, Steve
 Herberman, teaches a class online called Going For Baroque.
 You
have to
 buy the class, but an overview video is available:

 [1][4][5]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ

 It would be really interesting to transfer his approach to
 the Dm
lute.
 One would really get to know the instrument and tuning
 well, and
 discover many contrapuntal finger movements which could be
 used in
 improvising fugues or dance movements.

 I'd like to know your thoughts after watching the video.

 Rob MacKillop

 [2][5][6]www.robmackillop.net

 --

 References

 1. [6][7]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ

[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread David van Ooijen
   Improvisation teaches many things besides improvisation: compositional
   awareness, arranging and adapting skills, freedom on the instrument,
   confidence, musical expression (hopefully), a better involvement in
   what you're playing and in a roundabout way you'll become a better
   sight reader because you'll become better at recognizing structure in
   stead of just notes.
   Not 100% relevant to the discussion, but I touch upon improvisation not
   as a goal in itself but as a means in becoming a better musician in the
   series I wrote (am writing) on Zen and lute playing. The series is
   on-line in the Writings section of my website. Here's a direct link:
   [1]http://home.kpn.nl/ooije006/david/writings/lutedou8_onemoment_f.html
   David

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 2 July 2015 at 10:31, Rob MacKillop [4]robmackil...@gmail.com
   wrote:

Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly
 with
contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm
 tuning
remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players
 rip
through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed.
 I
once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher,
 and
without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted
 Greene are
the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is
 closer
to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked
 out a
system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of
 introducing
improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see
 improv
becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to
 put off
until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will
 never
happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at
 stepped
levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
Rob
On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen
 [1][5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com

  wrote:
   This time a reply after watching the video (test question:
   What's
the
   colour of Steve's cat?).
   What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
style,
   cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
afraid
   to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
the
   usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a
   written-out
   single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
Whether a
   student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
beyond the
   formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the
   harmonic
and
   contrapuntal toolson the fingerboard as opposed to just on
paperto
   do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
don't
   think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
made a
   few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
on my
   website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
lessons
   by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51.
   But
these
   are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
   contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
organ
   players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
compositions. I
   have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise
   baroque
   counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
   contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
should
   be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote
   so
much
   better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding
music, in
   gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
   contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
   Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
   written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen

 [1][2][6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [2][3][7]www.davidvanooijen.nl
 ***
 On 1 July 2015 at 14:49, Rob MacKillop
  [3][4][8]robmackil...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   I've long thought that there was something missing
 from the
  way
 most of
   us 

[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread Lex van Sante
True. 
As an improviser, even an accomplished one, to compare ones own improvisations 
against properly composed music is demotivating to say the least.
Improvisation is more about the joy of playing than about good music and 
should be qualified accordingly.
Interesting subject though.
Lex
Op 2 jul 2015, om 14:20 heeft Christopher Wilke het volgende geschreven:

 
   Garrison Keillor came through town recently with A Prairie Home
   Companion. (Keillor just named virtuoso mandolinist Chris Thile as his
   replacement, who is quite the improviser himself, that's another
   topic.) I'm not actually a huge fan of his style, but I found this
   interesting.
   Anyway, a local radio host interviewed him and asked, Many people
   probably don't realize how much of the show is ad libbed. After doing
   it for so many years, you probably feel pretty comfortable improvising,
   right?
   Keillor said, I never feel comfortable improvising. Just shame. A
   continual sense of shame that it could have been better.
   I think that just about sums up improvisation. Understand going in that
   no performance will be everything you want it to be. Just go for it!
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 
 At Jul 2, 2015, 5:24:57 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:
 
   Improvisation teaches many things besides improvisation: compositional
   awareness, arranging and adapting skills, freedom on the instrument,
   confidence, musical expression (hopefully), a better involvement in
   what you're playing and in a roundabout way you'll become a better
   sight reader because you'll become better at recognizing structure in
   stead of just notes.
   Not 100% relevant to the discussion, but I touch upon improvisation not
   as a goal in itself but as a means in becoming a better musician in the
   series I wrote (am writing) on Zen and lute playing. The series is
   on-line in the Writings section of my website. Here's a direct link:
   [1][2]http://home.kpn.nl/ooije006/david/writings/lutedou8_onemoment_f.h
   tml
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2][3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 2 July 2015 at 10:31, Rob MacKillop [4][4]robmackil...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly
   with
   contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm
   tuning
   remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players
   rip
   through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed.
   I
   once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher,
   and
   without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted
   Greene are
   the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is
   closer
   to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked
   out a
   system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
   So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of
   introducing
   improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see
   improv
   becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to
   put off
   until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will
   never
   happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at
   stepped
   levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
   Rob
   On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen
   [1][5][5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   This time a reply after watching the video (test question:
   What's
   the
   colour of Steve's cat?).
   What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
   style,
   cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
   afraid
   to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
   the
   usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a
   written-out
   single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
   Whether a
   student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
   beyond the
   formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the
   harmonic
   and
   contrapuntal tools on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
   paper to
   do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
   don't
   think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
   made a
   few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
   on my
   website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
   lessons
   by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51.
   But
   these
   are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
   contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
   organ
   players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
   compositions. I
   have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise
   baroque
   counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
   contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
   should
   be 

[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread Christopher Wilke

   Hi Martin,
   I agree that improvisation should be introduced early on. However, I
   disagree that it need be so formally codified with proper theory and
   counterpoint at the early stages. Students are often initially hesitant
   to improvise for fear of making mistakes and looking foolish. In fact,
   the pathway to becoming fluent at improv is accepting the concept that
   in any given situation there are no mistakes, simply a range of
   choices along a spectrum of quality. If one waits to introduce improv
   until the instrument is mastered and all the abstract rules are
   understood, the task becomes daunting. This is the perfect recipe for
   stiffness.
   The first step for a teacher is merely creating an encouraging,
   non-judgemental environment. The very beginning can and perhaps should
   be done entirely by ear. No need for any theory, music reading or even
   knowledge of the names of the notes. And there need not be any degree
   of technical mastery. I don't mean the one should drop students into an
   ocean of choices, but at first rather limit them to just a few easy
   notes to be played over simple chords (not yet even approaching the
   complexity of a ground). Afterwards I ask, Which did you like better?
   Did you like the sound of note X, Y or Z when I played chord 1?. 95%
   of the time, they already have the correct theoretical answer. I
   don't correct them if they have the wrong answer, although I may
   isolate the example and have them listen carefully again. Maybe the ear
   is simply being trained at this point or maybe they're developing a
   personal style which I don't want to discourage. Later on I show them
   licks (or motifs as we would say). Then it becomes, Which lick did you
   like with chord 1? With chord #2?
   To be clear: I don't mean that anything goes in improv. The theory
   comes later, and regardless of one's personal preferences, it is
   important to eventually understand the components of music as practiced
   by most.
   Best,
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 At Jul 2, 2015, 5:14:15 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

   Hi All,
   Yes I agree improvisation is something to be introduced early on, not
   just as an advanced topic. To do it properly one really needs some
   knowledge of composition, which unfortunately many amateur lute players
   lack. I'm not thinking of anything very advanced here, just a very
   basic grounding in figured bass and counterpoint. I wonder if someone
   could be persuaded to write a little snippet each quarter for Lute
   News?
   Don't look at me, I'm too busy.
   Martin
   On 02/07/2015 10:31, Rob MacKillop wrote:
Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly with
contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm tuning
remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players rip
through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed. I
once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher, and
without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted Greene
   are
the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is
   closer
to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked out a
system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of introducing
improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see improv
becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to put
   off
until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will never
happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at stepped
levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
Rob
   
On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen
   [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
This time a reply after watching the video (test question: What's
the
colour of Steve's cat?).
What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
style,
cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
afraid
to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
the
usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a written-out
single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
Whether a
student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
beyond the
formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the harmonic
and
contrapuntal tools on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
paper to
do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
don't
think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
made a
few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
on my
website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
lessons
by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51. But
these
are all harmony oriented, and 

[LUTE] Re: Improvising Baroque Music

2015-07-02 Thread Christopher Wilke

   Garrison Keillor came through town recently with A Prairie Home
   Companion. (Keillor just named virtuoso mandolinist Chris Thile as his
   replacement, who is quite the improviser himself, that's another
   topic.) I'm not actually a huge fan of his style, but I found this
   interesting.
   Anyway, a local radio host interviewed him and asked, Many people
   probably don't realize how much of the show is ad libbed. After doing
   it for so many years, you probably feel pretty comfortable improvising,
   right?
   Keillor said, I never feel comfortable improvising. Just shame. A
   continual sense of shame that it could have been better.
   I think that just about sums up improvisation. Understand going in that
   no performance will be everything you want it to be. Just go for it!
   Chris
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

 At Jul 2, 2015, 5:24:57 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:

   Improvisation teaches many things besides improvisation: compositional
   awareness, arranging and adapting skills, freedom on the instrument,
   confidence, musical expression (hopefully), a better involvement in
   what you're playing and in a roundabout way you'll become a better
   sight reader because you'll become better at recognizing structure in
   stead of just notes.
   Not 100% relevant to the discussion, but I touch upon improvisation not
   as a goal in itself but as a means in becoming a better musician in the
   series I wrote (am writing) on Zen and lute playing. The series is
   on-line in the Writings section of my website. Here's a direct link:
   [1][2]http://home.kpn.nl/ooije006/david/writings/lutedou8_onemoment_f.h
   tml
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [2][3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   On 2 July 2015 at 10:31, Rob MacKillop [4][4]robmackil...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly
   with
   contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm
   tuning
   remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players
   rip
   through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed.
   I
   once joked to a harpsichord player Now do it a semitone higher,
   and
   without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted
   Greene are
   the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is
   closer
   to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked
   out a
   system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
   So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of
   introducing
   improv ideas and concepts to post beginners? I'd like to see
   improv
   becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to
   put off
   until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will
   never
   happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at
   stepped
   levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
   Rob
   On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen
   [1][5][5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   wrote:
   This time a reply after watching the video (test question:
   What's
   the
   colour of Steve's cat?).
   What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
   style,
   cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
   afraid
   to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
   the
   usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a
   written-out
   single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
   Whether a
   student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
   beyond the
   formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the
   harmonic
   and
   contrapuntal tools on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
   paper to
   do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
   don't
   think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
   made a
   few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
   on my
   website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
   lessons
   by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51.
   But
   these
   are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
   contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
   organ
   players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
   compositions. I
   have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise
   baroque
   counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
   contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
   should
   be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote
   so
   much
   better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding
   music, in
   gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
   contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
   Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
   written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
   

[LUTE] Polonica: new lute CD released

2015-07-02 Thread Michal Gondko
Dear Lutenists,

There seems to be no announcement on this list yet, nor have I put one myself 
until now: my CD ‘Polonica’ is now out and available worldwide, at least from 
most major online music retailers. A Google search will provide further 
information. Here are a few links:

http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/polonica-musique-a-connotation-polonaise-autour-de-1600-ram-1406

https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/polonica/id998688358

See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p53Q1WGQ0 [four settings from D-LEu 
II.6.15, better known as the (improbable) ‘Dlugoraj Lute Book’]. 

Please help spreading the word.

Best to all,

Michal
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[LUTE] Re: Polonica: new lute CD released

2015-07-02 Thread Charles Mokotoff
   That is lovely! Very sensitive playing and wonderful sound.
   Congratulations. :)

   On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Michal Gondko [1]cont...@lamorra.info
   wrote:

 Dear Lutenists,
 There seems to be no announcement on this list yet, nor have I put
 one myself until now: my CD aPolonica' is now out and available
 worldwide, at least from most major online music retailers. A Google
 search will provide further information. Here are a few links:
 [2]http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/polonica-musique-a-connota
 tion-polonaise-autour-de-1600-ram-1406
 [3]https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/polonica/id998688358
 See also [4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p53Q1WGQ0 [four
 settings from D-LEu II.6.15, better known as the (improbable)
 aDlugoraj Lute Book'].
 Please help spreading the word.
 Best to all,
 Michal
 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:cont...@lamorra.info
   2. 
http://www.outhere-music.com/en/albums/polonica-musique-a-connotation-polonaise-autour-de-1600-ram-1406
   3. https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/polonica/id998688358
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32p53Q1WGQ0
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html