Thanks for the comments. Yes, Steve Herberman is dealing mainly with
contrapuntal devices. How well they they would transfer to Dm tuning
remains to be discovered. I have seen many harpsichord players rip
through similar devices many times, and have been duly impressed. I
once joked to a harpsichord player "Now do it a semitone higher", and
without batting an eyelid, he did...Steve Herberman and Ted Greene are
the only guys I have seen who can do that on a guitar, which is closer
to the lute than a harpsichord. The thing is, Steve has worked out a
system. I might buy the course to see how he does it.
So much for contrapuntal improv. What about the topic of introducing
improv ideas and concepts to "post beginners"? I'd like to see improv
becoming more normal in our learning process, not something to put off
until you have hopefully mastered the instrument (as that will never
happen). For this to happen, we need educational material at stepped
levels. Something for our lute societies, perhaps?
Rob
On 2 July 2015 at 07:05, David van Ooijen <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
This time a reply after watching the video (test question: What's
the
colour of Steve's cat?).
What I saw was Steve playing written-out formulae in a baroque
style,
cycling through many keys. What Chris referred to as 'don't be
afraid
to copy' and 'learning many licks', or similar wording, anyway,
the
usual jazz teaching method. In the end Steve plays a written-out
single-line exercise and a written out contrapuntal exercise.
Whether a
student will be able to use this in his improvisation to go
beyond the
formulae, is up to the student, but he will be given the harmonic
and
contrapuntal tools on the fingerboard as opposed to just on
paper to
do so. Yes, it would be great to have this for dm-lute, and I
don't
think it would be all that much work to make. Some years ago I
made a
few beginners' lessons for playing continuo on dm-lute (on-line
on my
website for those interested). There are historical dm continuo
lessons
by Perrine and in the Prague University Library Ms. II Kk 51. But
these
are all harmony oriented, and Steve's approach is focused on
contrapuntal cadences and formulae. Keyboard players (notably
organ
players) are still trained in improvising contrapuntal
compositions. I
have a classical guitar colleague who liked to improvise baroque
counterpoint. To call it fugues would be stretching it, but his
contrapuntal fantasies were convincing enough. I don't think it
should
be taken as a goal though, when so much better composers wrote so
much
better music. But it would be a great tool in understanding
music, in
gaining fluency on the dm-fingerboard and in playing more
contrapuntal/more interesting continuo.
Closest historical source I can think of is the Italian ms with
written-out cadenses and 'licks' for theorbo.
David
*******************************
David van Ooijen
[1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
[2][3]www.davidvanooijen.nl
*******************************
On 1 July 2015 at 14:49, Rob MacKillop
<[3][4]robmackil...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I've long thought that there was something missing from the
way
most of
> us learn to play baroque music, whether on lute or guitar.
Some of
us
> have studied figured bass playing, it's something I
particularly
> enjoyed doing, though I haven't done any for years. But
rarely do
we
> step beyond that practice, and I believe that only a very,
very
small
> percentage of us are happy improvising baroque counterpoint
in Dm
> tuning.
>
> I was fascinated to learn that one of my jazz guitar
heroes, Steve
> Herberman, teaches a class online called Going For Baroque.
You
have to
> buy the class, but an overview video is available:
>
> [1][4][5]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
>
> It would be really interesting to transfer his approach to
the Dm
lute.
> One would really get to know the instrument and tuning
well, and
> discover many contrapuntal finger movements which could be
used in
> improvising fugues or dance movements.
>
> I'd like to know your thoughts after watching the video.
>
> Rob MacKillop
>
> [2][5][6]www.robmackillop.net
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. [6][7]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
> 2. [7][8]http://www.robmackillop.net/
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [8][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[10]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
2. [11]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
3. mailto:[12]robmackil...@gmail.com
4. [13]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
5. [14]http://www.robmackillop.net/
6. [15]http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
7. [16]http://www.robmackillop.net/
8. [17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
3. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
4. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
5. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
6. http://www.robmackillop.net/
7. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
8. http://www.robmackillop.net/
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
11. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
12. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
13. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
14. http://www.robmackillop.net/
15. http://youtu.be/u9oZ5Us0sfQ
16. http://www.robmackillop.net/
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
