Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 15:14:57 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> > > > /usr/bin/lyx, right? p
> > > 
> > > Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.
> > > 
> > > qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.
> > > 
> > >   Kornel
> > 
> > Oh, now I found, that I have installed fonts-lyx which included
> > stmary10.ttf.
> > 
> > I had to remove fonts-lyx, ttf-lyx and cadabra. Now, both, qt5 and qt4
> > behaves OK.
> 
> Great! That means that even qt4 might work on normal installs :)
> Pavel

Seems so :)

Kornel


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:55:13 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > > what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> > > > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f
> > > > > ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> > > > > p
> > > > 
> > > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf
> > > 
> > > so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> > > /usr/bin/lyx, right? p
> > 
> > Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.
> > 
> > qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.
> 
> so this qt4-lyx is using stmary10.ttf from the local build-dir
> and has the same md5sum?
> p

Yes.

Kornel


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Pavel Sanda]

Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> > > /usr/bin/lyx, right? p
> > 
> > Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.
> > 
> > qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.
> > 
> > Kornel
> 
> Oh, now I found, that I have installed fonts-lyx which included stmary10.ttf.
> 
> I had to remove fonts-lyx, ttf-lyx and cadabra. Now, both, qt5 and qt4 
> behaves 
> OK.

Great! That means that even qt4 might work on normal installs :)
Pavel

Re: New Win installer ready for LyX 2.3.0

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 23/03/2018 à 10:33, Uwe Stöhr a écrit :
It doesn't help if you ask users who knows what a package is, if they 
would understand such a dialog. 


The dialog proposals that I have seen where about updating MikTeX. There 
is no mention package or dependencies or even console (?). Why are you 
mentioning these points?


Are you telling us that windows user do not know that there is something 
called MikTex that is used by LyX?


JMarc

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:50:57 CET schrieb Kornel Benko :
> Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:40:13 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> > Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:05:35 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda
> 
> :
> > > > Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > > > I am probably missing something
> > > > 
> > > > what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> > > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?
> > > > 
> > > > what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> > > > p
> > > 
> > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf
> > 
> > so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> > /usr/bin/lyx, right? p
> 
> Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.
> 
> qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.
> 
>   Kornel

Oh, now I found, that I have installed fonts-lyx which included stmary10.ttf.

I had to remove fonts-lyx, ttf-lyx and cadabra. Now, both, qt5 and qt4 behaves 
OK.

Kornel


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Pavel Sanda]

Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> > > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?
> > > > 
> > > > what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> > > > p
> > > 
> > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf
> > 
> > so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> > /usr/bin/lyx, right? p
> 
> Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.

> qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.

so this qt4-lyx is using stmary10.ttf from the local build-dir
and has the same md5sum?
p

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:40:13 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Kornel Benko wrote:
> > Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:05:35 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda 
:
> > > Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > > I am probably missing something
> > > 
> > > what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> > > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?
> > > 
> > > what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> > > p
> > 
> > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf
> 
> so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like
> /usr/bin/lyx, right? p

Yes, qt5-lyx is runnig as /usr/local/bin/lyx2.4.

qt4-lyx is running from its build-dir.

Kornel


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Pavel Sanda]

Kornel Benko wrote:
> Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:05:35 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> > Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > I am probably missing something
> > 
> > what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> > cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?
> > 
> > what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> > p
> 
> cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf

so that's the one in /usr/share and you run master from smt like /usr/bin/lyx, 
right?
p

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 14:05:35 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > I am probably missing something
> 
> what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
> cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?
> 
> what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
> p

cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85  stmary10.ttf

qt4.8.7
qt5.6.1

Kornel

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Pavel Sanda]

Kornel Benko wrote:
> > I am probably missing something

what md5sum of ttf file your install is using?
cf6c224fc92c494d4a3621b2c104ab85 or 9dc77f1f08232f4c79bb7124cff5ec5f ?

what is exactly your qt 4 / qt 5 version?
p

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 13:45:12 CET schrieb Kornel Benko :
> Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 13:07:29 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> > Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > > Note that if you don't see it, it's possible that old esint10.ttf
> > > > resides somwhere on global PATH and interferes with your testing.
> > > > 
> > > > If I get some positive feedback I will try to continue with the next
> > > > affected glyphs in different font files.
> > > 
> > > What's wrong is the display of
> > > \varcurlywedge\,\minuso\,\sslash\,\bbslash\,
> > > This is with qt5, instant preview disabled.
> > > No problems with qt4.
> > 
> > Are you sure you have properly updated tree?
> 
> Up to now I was sure. Which tree do you have in mind?
>   $ sudo mkfontscale /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts
>   --> 839 Mär 23 13:30 fonts.scale
>   $ sudo mkfontdir /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts
>   --> 839 Mär 23 13:38 fonts.dir
>   $ egrep mary /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts/fonts.dir
>   stmary10.ttf 
> -misc-stmary10-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1
>   $ xset q
>   ...
>   Font Path:
>   Font Path:
>   /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts,/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,/usr/share/fonts/
> X11/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/
> X11/Type1,/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,built-ins
> ...
> BUT still
>   $ xlsfonts   |grep mary
>   Exit 1
> 
> I am probably missing something

Got it. Forgotten
$ xset fp rehash
But still, qt4 behaves OK, and qt5 is wrong.

> > qt4 is unlikely to work correctly after my last commits.
> > 
> > Pavel
> 
Kornel



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag, 23. März 2018 13:07:29 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Kornel Benko wrote:
> > > Note that if you don't see it, it's possible that old esint10.ttf
> > > resides somwhere on global PATH and interferes with your testing.
> > > 
> > > If I get some positive feedback I will try to continue with the next
> > > affected glyphs in different font files.
> > 
> > What's wrong is the display of
> > \varcurlywedge\,\minuso\,\sslash\,\bbslash\,
> > This is with qt5, instant preview disabled.
> > No problems with qt4.
> 
> Are you sure you have properly updated tree?

Up to now I was sure. Which tree do you have in mind?
$ sudo mkfontscale /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts
--> 839 Mär 23 13:30 fonts.scale
$ sudo mkfontdir /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts
--> 839 Mär 23 13:38 fonts.dir
$ egrep mary /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts/fonts.dir
stmary10.ttf 
-misc-stmary10-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1
$ xset q
...
Font Path:
Font Path:
  /usr/local/share/lyx2.4/fonts,/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc,/usr/share/fonts/
X11/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/share/fonts/
X11/Type1,/usr/share/fonts/X11/100dpi,/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi,built-ins
...
BUT still
$ xlsfonts   |grep mary
Exit 1

I am probably missing something

> qt4 is unlikely to work correctly after my last commits.
> 
> Pavel

Kornel



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: New Win installer ready for LyX 2.3.0

[Pavel Sanda]

racoon wrote:
> If the user denies to update MiKTeX, LyX will not be installed. So 
> any amateur user will finally answer the question affirmative, I believe.

I don't follow why Uwe's fears damaging the user installation either.
If the dialog shows before any installation process starts and confused
user hits "No" then nothing installs and nothing gets broken.

Pavel

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Pavel Sanda]

Kornel Benko wrote:
> > Note that if you don't see it, it's possible that old esint10.ttf
> > resides somwhere on global PATH and interferes with your testing.
> > 
> > If I get some positive feedback I will try to continue with the next
> > affected glyphs in different font files.
> 
> What's wrong is the display of \varcurlywedge\,\minuso\,\sslash\,\bbslash\,
> This is with qt5, instant preview disabled.
> No problems with qt4.

Are you sure you have properly updated tree?
qt4 is unlikely to work correctly after my last commits.

Pavel

Re: [LyX/master] esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.

[Kornel Benko]

Am Donnerstag, 22. März 2018 02:57:29 CET schrieb Pavel Sanda :
> Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > commit 92680495bb8dcdcb5daf4a0c2ed9bdf9da7894f1
> > Author: Pavel Sanda 
> > Date:   Thu Mar 22 02:26:46 2018 +0100
> > 
> > esint10: attempt on to fix empty symbol glyphs.
> > 
> > With advent of qt5 glyphs on codepoints 10, 12, 13 can't be shown
> > anymore.
> > 
> > In this patch we copy the glyph pairs to new codepoints:
> > dotsint: 19->41 (this one was already moved by Goerg, now moving to
> > the same block) oint: 11->43
> > oiint:13->45
> 
> It would be interesting if other ppl, esp. on mac/win could confirm that
> with qt5 they can see \dotsint, \oint, \oiint again in mathed.

Yes, linux.

> Note that if you don't see it, it's possible that old esint10.ttf
> resides somwhere on global PATH and interferes with your testing.
> 
> If I get some positive feedback I will try to continue with the next
> affected glyphs in different font files.

What's wrong is the display of \varcurlywedge\,\minuso\,\sslash\,\bbslash\,
This is with qt5, instant preview disabled.
No problems with qt4.

> Pavel

Kornel

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: New Win installer ready for LyX 2.3.0

[racoon]

On 23.03.2018 10:33, Uwe Stöhr wrote:

Am 23.03.2018 um 05:22 schrieb Scott Kostyshak:


I understand your argument. I disagree that adding a dialog would hurt
the vast majority more than it would help it


That is the fundamental disagreement.

It doesn't help if you ask users who knows what a package is, if they 
would understand such a dialog. My experience is that the majority of 
LyX users (under Windows of course) don't know this. My experience will 
not change the longer we discuss.
People like my mother can and do use LyX. She would not understand what 
you want but she should be able to use LyX in future.

Just an idea involving previous experience.

I seem to remember that since I am using LyX, which goes back many 
versions, there was always a dialog recommending but *asking* the user 
to run the MiKTeX update.


As I see it, due to the problems Uwe pointed out, many developers seem 
to accept that, at least for 2.3, LyX should not be installed without a 
forced MiKTeX update. (I might be wrong on this.)


However, also many developers seem to agree that, *as in all the 
versions before*, there should be a dialog asking the user before making 
changes to MiKTeX. (If the user denies to update MiKTeX, LyX will not be 
installed. So any amateur user will finally answer the question 
affirmative, I believe.)


Is there any strong evidence (maybe from many questions on the list or 
emails) that the dialog that LyX was showing before confused users? If 
not, what is the main difference between the old dialog and the new 
dialog in terms of how comprehensible it is?


I don't claim that many developers will follow my reasoning here. It is 
just a desperate attempt to make progress in some way.


Best,
Daniel

Re: New Win installer ready for LyX 2.3.0

[Uwe Stöhr]

Am 23.03.2018 um 05:22 schrieb Scott Kostyshak:


I understand your argument. I disagree that adding a dialog would hurt
the vast majority more than it would help it


That is the fundamental disagreement.

It doesn't help if you ask users who knows what a package is, if they 
would understand such a dialog. My experience is that the majority of 
LyX users (under Windows of course) don't know this. My experience will 
not change the longer we discuss.
People like my mother can and do use LyX. She would not understand what 
you want but she should be able to use LyX in future.


I am wondering why other developers don't have similar experiences as 
well. I mean, most users writing to our mailing lists know what a 
console is but most Windows users don't know this - because you never 
need it unless you are a developer. Concepts like a console, package, 
dependencies etc. are not used in Windows. This should not be an excuse 
not to use LyX under Windows.


regards Uwe

Fwd: Re: New Win installer ready for LyX 2.3.0

[Uwe Stöhr]

Dear Ben,

many thanks for your reply. I am forwarding it to the mailing list that 
others can follow the discussion:



Thanks for the answer,

First point:

What I mean is that when you choose
LyX:Preferences -> Language Settings -> Default
Keyboard binding should be related to the Keyboard of your system not 
the OS user interface language.
Example I use Windows 10 with UK language interface but with a French 
Azerty Keyboard because it's a French keyboard in my laptop (speaking of 
hardware).
Even that I changed LyX interface Language to French but I didn't notice 
big change in the default key bidding:

LyX:Preferences -> Editing -> Shortcuts

Second point:
===
LyX favorise "American dictionary" and overlook the other English 
dictionaries:

This is easily verified when you choose:
LyX:Document -> Settings -> Language -> English
then LyX use automatically "American" en_US.dic nothing else while in my 
spirit "English" refer to 3 or 4 international languages, the most 
important (historically) of then being the Britannic languages.
When you save your custom spell checking words, LyX consider them 
related to en_US.dic.
Now there is at least 6 options of English languages in the document 
settings:
* English (this is supposed English International but LyX use en_US for 
this option)

* English (USA), LyX save the words in file called pwl_american.dict
* English (USA), LyX save the words in file called pwl_british.dict
* English (Australia) " "
* English (Canada) " "
etc

Third point:
=
Most of the American dictionaries are quite disappointing. I think 
American care very little about this Hungarian spell checker and 
favorise Aspell. The dictionaries are poorly developed for this Language 
and come most from the SCOWL site:

http://wordlist.aspell.net/hunspell-readme/

and as noticed by the authors there:

Quote:

/If none of these dictionaries suite you (for example, maybe you want 
the normal dictionary that also includes common variants) additional 
dictionaries can be generated at http://app.aspell.net/create or by 
modifying speller/make-hunspell-dict in SCOWL. Please do let me know if 
you end up publishing a customized dictionary./



I spent the last 3 or 4 days improving this US dictionary 
 (date 2007-08-29), 
that I consider *the best* after a lot of testing and I added more than 
350 new words related my own field "Mathematics". I spent hours and 
hours browsing index of Mathematic books and checking  google for the 
consistency of words and if they are more or less accepted by the 
international community.

Example:
New word:
geometrization/S
geometrize/GASD

uniformize/GASD

to say the least (how come on an American dictionary forget about a name 
like "Poincaré"?)


Please find attached some files related to my work.

Best regards.
H. Ben
FSSM


user.bind
Description: Binary data