Re: Are you going to offer new versions of LyXWinInsaller?
Am 04.04.2019 um 01:53 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: You said I have to *compile* LyX on Windows. Of course I *install* LyX under Windows to test it. This is fine since you test if the compiled version works. I agree, of course, that it would be better if the person responsible for the Windows installer was a Windows user. But, at the moment, we don't have anyone who is (i) willing to take that on and (ii) willing to abide by decisions of the LyX team. The main problem is that the rules don't follow the experience the LyX Windows community collected over many years. Your decision not to include a TeX distribution to the installer did not improve the situation but worse it. Remember that MiKTeX was once included to the installer because we needed a method to setup and repair broken TeX distribution settings. That users broke their MiKTeX or TeXLive happened often and I did not have the time to explain the same things how to repair/use correct settings again and again. (You can look in the mailing list archives how many mails I wrote over the years addressing these issues.) Thus I developed together with the MiKTeX maintainer an API that the installer could set up everything. Moreover it enabled to repair broken systems just by installing LyX again. So kicking this out is a nightmare for a new potential maintainer because he is in the state I was before I added MiKTeX to the installer. And I never said MiKTeX is the greatest TeX distro. It is definitely not and recently it was quite buggy but it provides methods to set it up at install time. However, please sign your installer using Microsoft's signtool. This is important because Microsoft made his SmartScreen filter recently more aggressive. This filter is not very smart and it sucks. Nevertheless, we have to accept that it currently tells users that installing LyX could be harmful and one has to explicitly say "install it anyway" to get LyX installed. One reason is that executables should have a digital signature. With a signature SmartScreen will shout anyway but "learn" much faster that LyX is not dangerous. You can use the self-signature file I set up for LyX: https://github.com/donovaly/LyXWinInstaller/blob/master/LyXorg.pfx regards Uwe
Re: Are you going to offer new versions of LyXWinInsaller?
On 4/3/19 5:52 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > Am 02.04.2019 um 03:02 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: > >>> You see why I insist that proper Windows support is only possible if >>> the >>> whole process, compilation, installer building and testing the >>> installation is run on different Win systems. >> >> No, I don't see why it matters whether we compile LyX on Windows or on >> Linux, and nothing you said seems to address that. > > I just gave you two examples why only installing LyX on a Windows PC > could unveil problems: You said I have to *compile* LyX on Windows. Of course I *install* LyX under Windows to test it. As I also said, it is my intention to release 'testing' versions which, presumably, will be installed by people on different systems. I'm hoping to get to this fairly soon. Problems that turn up that way will be fixed. I agree, of course, that it would be better if the person responsible for the Windows installer was a Windows user. But, at the moment, we don't have anyone who is (i) willing to take that on and (ii) willing to abide by decisions of the LyX team. Riki
Re: Are you going to offer new versions of LyXWinInsaller?
Am 02.04.2019 um 03:02 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: You see why I insist that proper Windows support is only possible if the whole process, compilation, installer building and testing the installation is run on different Win systems. No, I don't see why it matters whether we compile LyX on Windows or on Linux, and nothing you said seems to address that. I just gave you two examples why only installing LyX on a Windows PC could unveil problems: - the installer must assure that LyX is not currently running when installing. The plugin that should do this fails now since the latest Win 10 update from March. Yes, the plugin was already declared deprecated but we both missed this. We are all humans so only frequent testing on different Windows systems will uncover such cases. - the other example was the installation of LyX. There was a nasty bug in MiKTeX that made it crash when LyX's configure.py was run. This was no LyX bug but for the LyX users the effect was the same - LyX became unusable for those who had MiKTeX already installed. I noticed this during my tests, informed the MiKTeX developer and he fixed it within 2 days. So if the goal is still to deliver a working LyX system it is not enough to compile it and its installer. One must test the different components on different Windows systems. One more example: ImageMagick releases made frequently problems in the past. Some released had general problems with EPS and PDF images. How will you see this if not testing on Windows? The crux is that the users can't know what is causing a problem. They just see e,g, that some images won't be displayed within LyX. Therefore I run different image tests for every installer I release, on Win 7 and Win 10. Sometimes only the combination of a certain Ghostscript and ImageMagick release caused issues. I fixed the particular NSIS plugin problem now in the installer for FreeCAD by using the plugin "nsProcess". I'll backport this to the LyXWinInstaller and you should do this for your installer as well. regards Uwe
Re: Are you going to offer new versions of LyXWinInsaller?
On 4/1/19 6:04 PM, Uwe Stöhr wrote: > Am 01.04.2019 um 18:22 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: > >> I use gcc in a cross-platform environment. I.e., I compile for Windows >> on Linux. > > Hmm, but how do you check what fits to the different Windows systems? I test some things myself and rely upon other people to test them on other systems. This is no different from what we do on any other platform. It's my intention to start offering more frequent 'testing' releases, but this semester has been crazy busy. > ...I don't know if one can rely > on GCC that programs compiled with it will run also on latest and future > Win 10 versions other than running LyX under Win 10. (Then one can > directly compile LyX under Windows.) Lots and lots of programs get compiled this way, and gcc provides its own runtime libraries (which of course interface with the public Windows API). I'd wager, in fact, that they may be more stable, since they do not use undocumented features, system calls, and the like. > You see why I insist that proper Windows support is only possible if the > whole process, compilation, installer building and testing the > installation is run on different Win systems. No, I don't see why it matters whether we compile LyX on Windows or on Linux, and nothing you said seems to address that. Riki
Re: Are you going to offer new versions of LyXWinInsaller?
Am 01.04.2019 um 18:22 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: I use gcc in a cross-platform environment. I.e., I compile for Windows on Linux. Hmm, but how do you check what fits to the different Windows systems? For example last weekend I discovered that the FindProc NSIS plugin that normally detects that no LyX.exe is already running is working fine on Windows 7 and older Win 10 but not on the latest Win 10. The plugin was not compiled using MSVC and I don't know if one can rely on GCC that programs compiled with it will run also on latest and future Win 10 versions other than running LyX under Win 10. (Then one can directly compile LyX under Windows.) You see why I insist that proper Windows support is only possible if the whole process, compilation, installer building and testing the installation is run on different Win systems. regards Uwe
