Custom Lyx and LaTeX classes in the document tree

[Janosch Maier]

Hi there!

I am currently working on various Lyx files, thate reside in a tree that
looks the following:

doc
|
+-document1
+-document2
+-document3
+-...

The documents are build using cmake on different machines (Linux and OSX).

I have created a custom Lyx class with corresponding LaTeX class, that
should be used for alle the documents. The files reside in /doc/layout.

When I link my class files tho the appropriate locations:
~/.lyx/layouts
~/.texmf/tex/latex/local/classname/classname.cls
and chose the class in the Lyx editor, the documents compile.

Is there any way to make Lyx look in the /doc/layout folder for my classes?

Unfortunately it is not possible to copy the class files on all systems,
that are used for building. A solution using environment variables would
be fine, as I can set them using my makefile.

Regards
Janosch
-- 
Janosch Maier maierjano...@gmail.com -- http://phynformatik.de
This E-Mais is signed via GnuPG http://gnupg.org/. My public key:
0xEB21B1DE

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC

I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download

Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-
Rechner

to add in

/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is

deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free 
contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main

Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von 
ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  
Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: 
»/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 
2.0.3?

Wolfgang

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Philipp Gröne]

Hi there!Try thisdeb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contribin your /etc/apt/sources.list.This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .Are you aware about the Debian release policy?Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and unstable (i.e. Sid).The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes, while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.So try the following commands:sudo synaptic updatesudo synaptic -t unstable install lyxHope this helped.Greetings!Ph.P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:36:14 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann engelm...@uni-tuebingen.de wrote:
Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC

I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download

Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-Rechner

to add in

/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is

deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main

Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: »/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 2.0.3?

Wolfgang

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
 sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

 Hi there!
 
 Try this
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
 non-free
 
 deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
 
 in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
 
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
 
 Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
 
 Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
 unstable (i.e. Sid).
 The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
 while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
 means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
 
 I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
 version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
 default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
 
 So try the following commands:
 
 sudo synaptic update
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
 
 Hope this helped.
 
 Greetings!
 Ph.
 
 P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
 (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
 a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.comwrote:

 I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
 manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal
 with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

 LyX really came through for me.

 Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script
 v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

 Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
 without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

 Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
 class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in the
 preamble of this document; for more information look at the documentation
 of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

 Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this: 'Until
 a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples directory
 for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'

 The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually exist.
 There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years of
 development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

 I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
 works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the documentation.
 In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not work on the
 documentation for the tool to produce the document.

 Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time to
 produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the time
 to explain how to use it.

 (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly documented.
 Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

 -- Rich


So what point exactly do you want to make here ?

Vincent

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello, bad news

I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,  
but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many  
errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working  
(could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the  
result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can  
not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to  
use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be  
I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.

I am writing this from my notebook.

Wolfgang

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com írta:
I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical 
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn#39;t make me 
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.
LyX really came through for me.
Now I#39;m helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script 
v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!
Now on to the résumé. Let#39;s see what#39;s available. ModernCV looks good, 
under development for seven years.
Except it won#39;t accept last names much longer than the author#39;s name 
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot#39;s of hacks to deal with this.
...
[Long snip]

Hello:

I don't understand how the subject line is related to your problem.

Furthermore I even don't think what you've described is a problem, especially

is related to lyx.


As I understand correctly you miss a good CV class file and corresponding

documentation and working example file. My opinion is as follows:

One can make nice looking CV without a class file, especially in lyx.

IMO in latex some of the class files are required only since they, or some of 
their

commands only  replace the what you see part of WYSWYG programs. That is,

by using class file options and commands, without seeing the result you know 
how your 

document will look, since you know which command does what (e.g. title goes to 
top

center, author below title, etc.).

However lyx has a semi what you see GUI; using lyx and changing 
options/settings

in lyx will be reflected in the GUI and according to more or less the final 
output.

With a few clicks you can optimize your output according to your needs without

using the specific class option offered only by the given class. 

All in all you can make professionally looking CV using the article class and 
formatting

the document by setting and changing lyx options (paragraph, font, etc).

Regards,

bcsikos

Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[s . noble]

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
\setbibpreamble command, followed by a minisec section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few \breakBibliograpy
commands, each followed by minisec section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first minisec
title, immediately following the \setbibpreamble command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the \protect command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
footmisc package documentation, and I've added \usepackage[stable]{footmisc}
to the preamble. The stable option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
minisec title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd  3rd minisec titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.

Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide.

Sebastien

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
 sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

 Hi there!
 
 Try this
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
 non-free
 
 deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
 
 in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
 
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
 
 Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
 
 Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
 unstable (i.e. Sid).
 The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
 while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
 means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
 
 I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
 version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
 default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
 
 So try the following commands:
 
 sudo synaptic update
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
 
 Hope this helped.
 
 Greetings!
 Ph.
 
 P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
 (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
 a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 15:16:23 Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Hello, bad news
 
 I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,
 but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many
 errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
 In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working
 (could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the
 result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can
 not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to
 use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be
 I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.
 I am writing this from my notebook.
 
 Wolfgang

Sorry for this Mail. I have gone into the recovery mode and checked various 
things. Starting the PC again brought me back to x windows screen. 
Synaptics told me there are defect packages which were repaired. Afterward 
I was able to install the 2.0.6 lyx.

I guess, what happens was that in 
sudo synaptic update 
I might not have waited long enough ...
Anyway it is now working again and I can use now the lyx2.0.6.
Thanks for the help and sorry for the noise.

Wolfgang 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Les Denham]

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.

Sigh.

Les

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in 
Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.


I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his 
comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.



When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got 
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.


I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back 
to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?


There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick 
comments, and leave it at that.


1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the 
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.


2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I 
did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to 
anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the 
assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They 
aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:


a.  Why would I use the program?
b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some 
of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing 
existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with 
competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time 
finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political 
spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, 
How did they miss that?




So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And 
they have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.


That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now. 
 Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give 
LyX a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ernesto Posse]

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

 I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
 manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
 deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

 LyX really came through for me.

 Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
 KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

 Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
 without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

 Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
 class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
 the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
 documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

 Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
 'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples
 directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or
 pdf.'

 The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
 exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
 of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

 I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
 works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
 documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
 work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

 Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
 to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
 time to explain how to use it.

 (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
 documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

 -- Rich


 To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in
 Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.

 I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his
 comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.


 When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got into
 the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.

 I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back to
 commercial software.  A fair question is, why?

 There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick
 comments, and leave it at that.

 1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
 software is buggy, or some features just don't work.

 2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I
 did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to
 anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the
 assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They
 aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:

 a.  Why would I use the program?
 b.  Why would I recommend the program?

 The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
 commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some of
 which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing
 existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with
 competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time
 finding work arounds.

 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
 something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just political
 spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I would
 appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political spin.

 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
 period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and find
 bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, How
 did they miss that?



 So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And they
 have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.

 That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now.
  Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give LyX
 a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.


 --
 Ken

 Mac OS X 10.8.5
 Firefox 24.0
 Thunderbird 17.0.8
 LibreOffice 4.1.1.2




-- 
Ernesto Posse

Modelling and Analysis in Software Engineering
School of Computing
Queen's University - Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Re: why people give up on open source software

[David L. Johnson]

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, 
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not 
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, 
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot 
of time finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than 
political spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask 
myself, How did they miss that?


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues, 
and worse, with commercial software as well.  For me, the difference 
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a 
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask 
for help from the person who wrote it.  For example, this list is 
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.  
Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people 
reading from scripts.







--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here.  If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


I do have some free software installed, some open source, some not. 
But I get updates and bug fixes from the free software, not so much 
from the open source software in the way of bug fixes.


On 10/23/13 10:50 AM, Ernesto Posse wrote:

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com
mailto:snowsh...@q.com wrote:

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some
technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't
make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent.
Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks
good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal
with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The
moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are
explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes
this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the
examples
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi,
ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained.
Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how
open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document
NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have
the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to
make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source
generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as
in Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in
general.

I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states
his comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.


When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.

I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving
back to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?

There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some
quick comments, and leave it at that.

1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.

2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do,
and I did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even
assigned to anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for
awhile, but the assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as
minor.  Well...  They aren't minor to me!!  If the developers
don't/won't fix it, then:

 a.  Why would I use the program?
 b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by
not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a
business, with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you
spend a lot of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.
  I would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over
a period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
myself, How did they miss that?


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
and worse, with commercial software as well.


Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The 
question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I 
think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more 
attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.


These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has 
both free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers 
will be more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is 
to get you to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't 
think very many people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, 
will opt to purchase the paid version.



For me, the difference
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
for help from the person who wrote it.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to 
get in touch with.



For example, this list is
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.


Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also, 
because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the 
average word processor.



Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
reading from scripts.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much 
more helpful than the larger vendors.


I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a 
problem, I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally 
figured out what triggered the problem, but I'm not checked for an update.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:
I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.

Vincent

Re: Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[Richard Heck]

On 10/23/2013 10:29 AM, s.no...@free.fr wrote:

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
\setbibpreamble command, followed by a minisec section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few \breakBibliograpy
commands, each followed by minisec section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first minisec
title, immediately following the \setbibpreamble command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the \protect command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
footmisc package documentation, and I've added \usepackage[stable]{footmisc}
to the preamble. The stable option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
minisec title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd  3rd minisec titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.


So, just to be clear: This is really a LaTeX question. It's possible 
someone here will know the answer, since there are plenty of people here 
with LaTeX knowledge. But it's also possible (indeed, likely) that 
no-one here has ever tried this combination of things, and so that 
no-one here has any relevant information.


All of which is by way of saying you might try somewhere else if you 
don't get any help here: Stack Exchange, or the comp.text.tex usenet 
group (which is very active).


My guess would be that there's some incompatibility between the various 
things you are trying to use. But how to remedy it? No idea.


Richard

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support
at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying
with canned responses.

My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical manuals
quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things in the
cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get longer and
more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on content and
produced very professional output.

I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the first
time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.

With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example worked
was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the document done,
not futz around with the example.

Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com

They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed comments.
So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away. First time I've
had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX cannot
be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is required
than to change example text to your own text in a pre-configured template.
To this end, templates on this website have been carefully pulled apart,
cleaned up and made easier to use for the average person just starting to
use LaTeX.

-- Rich



On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:

 On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


 The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
 commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
 some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
 fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
 with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
 of time finding work arounds.

 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
 something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
 political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
 would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
 political spin.

 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
 period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
 find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
 myself, How did they miss that?


 I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
 and worse, with commercial software as well.


 Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The
 question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I
 think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more
 attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.

 These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has both
 free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers will be
 more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is to get you
 to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't think very many
 people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, will opt to
 purchase the paid version.


  For me, the difference
 between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
 problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
 for help from the person who wrote it.


 Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to get
 in touch with.


  For example, this list is
 well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.


 Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also,
 because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the
 average word processor.


  Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
 reading from scripts.


 Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much
 more helpful than the larger vendors.

 I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a problem,
 I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally figured out
 what triggered the problem, but I'm not checked for an update.


 --
 Ken

 Mac OS X 10.8.5
 Firefox 24.0
 Thunderbird 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.


Not sure how you feel, so no reply.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote:

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote:


Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.


Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.


Pure curiosity, Les, but have you asked to see if they will accept a PDF 
file?  I'd tell them those files are far easier to deal with between 
programs and platforms, and you don't have to buy Word in order to 
create them.


I sometimes think people ask for the Word format out of ignorance of 
anything else.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech
support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of
replying with canned responses.


Most of the time, you can't get help from the big guys, really pisses me 
off.



My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical
manuals quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things
in the cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get
longer and more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on
content and produced very professional output.


I'm hoping my experience parallels yours.  And you are right about Word, 
at least the XP and 2003 versions.  The bigger the project, the bigger 
the piece of crap it turned out to be.  The time is long gone when I 
could afford to buy programs to find one that worked, and I had really 
hoped for better performance from open source software.  As I've posted, 
with a few exceptions, that hasn't happened.



I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the
first time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.


I have no idea what KOMA-script is, but no need to explain it.  I don't 
think I'm ready to absorb the details.  LOL  LyX looks to be rather out 
of the box from you basic office suite thinking, and I want to get that 
under control before getting into any tweaking.


For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program 
I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will 
probably not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep 
research info with different file formats withing the Scrivener program 
itself.  So I need only one program running rather than a number of 
programs.



With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example
worked was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the
document done, not futz around with the example.


EXACTLY!!  As I've posted in other open source places, I DON'T	want to 
be their beta tester, I want to use the software.



Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com


Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed
comments. So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away.
First time I've had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX
cannot be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is
required than to change example text to your own text in a
pre-configured template. To this end, templates on this website have
been carefully pulled apart, cleaned up and made easier to use for the
average person just starting to use LaTeX.


This sounds like the average computer user, we just want to use the 
product, not tweak it, test it, etc.  I like this attitude, compared to 
some attitudes I've seen expressed.


I learned a long time ago, I don't want to program computers.


-- Rich



snip remaining text

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 



 LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite
 thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any
 tweaking.


As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'. You
get some content in and get a preliminary output - at that point you'll
want to tweak the output because that's what you're used to with WYSIWYG
word processors like Word. Don't. TeX knows more about typesetting than you
or I will ever learn. Concentrate on the content and structure of your
document. Save any tweaking for the final output - there's usually a few
things that need to be manually adjusted by judicious addition of white
space. Leave the heavy lifting to TeX. This was my biggest hurdle at the
beginning.




 For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program
 I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will probably
 not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep research info with
 different file formats withing the Scrivener program itself.  So I need
 only one program running rather than a number of programs.


I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project
management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for
everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good luck
with it.



  Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
 moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

 http://www.latextemplates.com


 Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


You're welcome.

-- Rich



 snip remaining text

Custom Lyx and LaTeX classes in the document tree

[Janosch Maier]

Hi there!

I am currently working on various Lyx files, thate reside in a tree that
looks the following:

doc
|
+-document1
+-document2
+-document3
+-...

The documents are build using cmake on different machines (Linux and OSX).

I have created a custom Lyx class with corresponding LaTeX class, that
should be used for alle the documents. The files reside in /doc/layout.

When I link my class files tho the appropriate locations:
~/.lyx/layouts
~/.texmf/tex/latex/local/classname/classname.cls
and chose the class in the Lyx editor, the documents compile.

Is there any way to make Lyx look in the /doc/layout folder for my classes?

Unfortunately it is not possible to copy the class files on all systems,
that are used for building. A solution using environment variables would
be fine, as I can set them using my makefile.

Regards
Janosch
-- 
Janosch Maier maierjano...@gmail.com -- http://phynformatik.de
This E-Mais is signed via GnuPG http://gnupg.org/. My public key:
0xEB21B1DE

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC

I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download

Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-
Rechner

to add in

/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is

deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free 
contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main

Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von 
ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  
Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: 
»/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 
2.0.3?

Wolfgang

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Philipp Gröne]

Hi there!Try thisdeb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contribin your /etc/apt/sources.list.This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .Are you aware about the Debian release policy?Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and unstable (i.e. Sid).The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes, while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.So try the following commands:sudo synaptic updatesudo synaptic -t unstable install lyxHope this helped.Greetings!Ph.P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:36:14 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann engelm...@uni-tuebingen.de wrote:
Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC

I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download

Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-Rechner

to add in

/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is

deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main

Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: »/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 2.0.3?

Wolfgang

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
 sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

 Hi there!
 
 Try this
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
 non-free
 
 deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
 
 in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
 
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
 
 Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
 
 Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
 unstable (i.e. Sid).
 The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
 while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
 means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
 
 I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
 version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
 default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
 
 So try the following commands:
 
 sudo synaptic update
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
 
 Hope this helped.
 
 Greetings!
 Ph.
 
 P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
 (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
 a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.comwrote:

 I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
 manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal
 with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

 LyX really came through for me.

 Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script
 v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

 Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
 without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

 Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
 class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in the
 preamble of this document; for more information look at the documentation
 of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

 Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this: 'Until
 a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples directory
 for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'

 The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually exist.
 There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years of
 development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

 I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
 works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the documentation.
 In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not work on the
 documentation for the tool to produce the document.

 Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time to
 produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the time
 to explain how to use it.

 (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly documented.
 Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

 -- Rich


So what point exactly do you want to make here ?

Vincent

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello, bad news

I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,  
but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many  
errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working  
(could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the  
result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can  
not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to  
use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be  
I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.

I am writing this from my notebook.

Wolfgang

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com írta:
I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical 
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn#39;t make me 
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.
LyX really came through for me.
Now I#39;m helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script 
v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!
Now on to the résumé. Let#39;s see what#39;s available. ModernCV looks good, 
under development for seven years.
Except it won#39;t accept last names much longer than the author#39;s name 
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot#39;s of hacks to deal with this.
...
[Long snip]

Hello:

I don't understand how the subject line is related to your problem.

Furthermore I even don't think what you've described is a problem, especially

is related to lyx.


As I understand correctly you miss a good CV class file and corresponding

documentation and working example file. My opinion is as follows:

One can make nice looking CV without a class file, especially in lyx.

IMO in latex some of the class files are required only since they, or some of 
their

commands only  replace the what you see part of WYSWYG programs. That is,

by using class file options and commands, without seeing the result you know 
how your 

document will look, since you know which command does what (e.g. title goes to 
top

center, author below title, etc.).

However lyx has a semi what you see GUI; using lyx and changing 
options/settings

in lyx will be reflected in the GUI and according to more or less the final 
output.

With a few clicks you can optimize your output according to your needs without

using the specific class option offered only by the given class. 

All in all you can make professionally looking CV using the article class and 
formatting

the document by setting and changing lyx options (paragraph, font, etc).

Regards,

bcsikos

Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[s . noble]

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
\setbibpreamble command, followed by a minisec section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few \breakBibliograpy
commands, each followed by minisec section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first minisec
title, immediately following the \setbibpreamble command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the \protect command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
footmisc package documentation, and I've added \usepackage[stable]{footmisc}
to the preamble. The stable option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
minisec title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd  3rd minisec titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.

Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide.

Sebastien

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
 sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

 Hi there!
 
 Try this
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
 non-free
 
 deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
 
 deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
 
 in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
 
 This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
 which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
 
 Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
 
 Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
 unstable (i.e. Sid).
 The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
 while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
 means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
 
 I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
 version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
 default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
 
 So try the following commands:
 
 sudo synaptic update
 sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
 
 Hope this helped.
 
 Greetings!
 Ph.
 
 P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
 (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
 a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 15:16:23 Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Hello, bad news
 
 I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,
 but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many
 errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
 In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working
 (could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the
 result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can
 not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to
 use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be
 I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.
 I am writing this from my notebook.
 
 Wolfgang

Sorry for this Mail. I have gone into the recovery mode and checked various 
things. Starting the PC again brought me back to x windows screen. 
Synaptics told me there are defect packages which were repaired. Afterward 
I was able to install the 2.0.6 lyx.

I guess, what happens was that in 
sudo synaptic update 
I might not have waited long enough ...
Anyway it is now working again and I can use now the lyx2.0.6.
Thanks for the help and sorry for the noise.

Wolfgang 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Les Denham]

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.

Sigh.

Les

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in 
Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.


I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his 
comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.



When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got 
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.


I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back 
to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?


There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick 
comments, and leave it at that.


1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the 
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.


2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I 
did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to 
anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the 
assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They 
aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:


a.  Why would I use the program?
b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some 
of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing 
existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with 
competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time 
finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political 
spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, 
How did they miss that?




So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And 
they have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.


That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now. 
 Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give 
LyX a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ernesto Posse]

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

 I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
 manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
 deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

 LyX really came through for me.

 Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
 KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

 Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
 under development for seven years.

 Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
 without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

 Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
 class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
 the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
 documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

 Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
 'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the examples
 directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or
 pdf.'

 The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
 exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
 of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

 I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
 works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
 documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
 work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

 Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
 to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
 time to explain how to use it.

 (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
 documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

 -- Rich


 To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in
 Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.

 I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his
 comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.


 When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got into
 the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.

 I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back to
 commercial software.  A fair question is, why?

 There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick
 comments, and leave it at that.

 1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
 software is buggy, or some features just don't work.

 2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I
 did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to
 anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the
 assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They
 aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:

 a.  Why would I use the program?
 b.  Why would I recommend the program?

 The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
 commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some of
 which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing
 existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with
 competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time
 finding work arounds.

 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
 something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just political
 spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I would
 appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political spin.

 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
 period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and find
 bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, How
 did they miss that?



 So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And they
 have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.

 That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now.
  Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give LyX
 a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.


 --
 Ken

 Mac OS X 10.8.5
 Firefox 24.0
 Thunderbird 17.0.8
 LibreOffice 4.1.1.2




-- 
Ernesto Posse

Modelling and Analysis in Software Engineering
School of Computing
Queen's University - Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Re: why people give up on open source software

[David L. Johnson]

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, 
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not 
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, 
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot 
of time finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than 
political spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask 
myself, How did they miss that?


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues, 
and worse, with commercial software as well.  For me, the difference 
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a 
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask 
for help from the person who wrote it.  For example, this list is 
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.  
Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people 
reading from scripts.







--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here.  If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


I do have some free software installed, some open source, some not. 
But I get updates and bug fixes from the free software, not so much 
from the open source software in the way of bug fixes.


On 10/23/13 10:50 AM, Ernesto Posse wrote:

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com
mailto:snowsh...@q.com wrote:

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some
technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't
make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent.
Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks
good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal
with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The
moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are
explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes
this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the
examples
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi,
ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained.
Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how
open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document
NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have
the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to
make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source
generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as
in Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in
general.

I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states
his comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.


When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.

I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving
back to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?

There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some
quick comments, and leave it at that.

1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.

2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do,
and I did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even
assigned to anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for
awhile, but the assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as
minor.  Well...  They aren't minor to me!!  If the developers
don't/won't fix it, then:

 a.  Why would I use the program?
 b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by
not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a
business, with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you
spend a lot of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.
  I would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over
a period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
myself, How did they miss that?


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
and worse, with commercial software as well.


Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The 
question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I 
think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more 
attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.


These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has 
both free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers 
will be more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is 
to get you to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't 
think very many people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, 
will opt to purchase the paid version.



For me, the difference
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
for help from the person who wrote it.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to 
get in touch with.



For example, this list is
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.


Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also, 
because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the 
average word processor.



Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
reading from scripts.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much 
more helpful than the larger vendors.


I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a 
problem, I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally 
figured out what triggered the problem, but I'm not checked for an update.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:
I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.

Vincent

Re: Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[Richard Heck]

On 10/23/2013 10:29 AM, s.no...@free.fr wrote:

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
\setbibpreamble command, followed by a minisec section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few \breakBibliograpy
commands, each followed by minisec section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first minisec
title, immediately following the \setbibpreamble command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the \protect command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
footmisc package documentation, and I've added \usepackage[stable]{footmisc}
to the preamble. The stable option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
minisec title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd  3rd minisec titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.


So, just to be clear: This is really a LaTeX question. It's possible 
someone here will know the answer, since there are plenty of people here 
with LaTeX knowledge. But it's also possible (indeed, likely) that 
no-one here has ever tried this combination of things, and so that 
no-one here has any relevant information.


All of which is by way of saying you might try somewhere else if you 
don't get any help here: Stack Exchange, or the comp.text.tex usenet 
group (which is very active).


My guess would be that there's some incompatibility between the various 
things you are trying to use. But how to remedy it? No idea.


Richard

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support
at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying
with canned responses.

My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical manuals
quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things in the
cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get longer and
more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on content and
produced very professional output.

I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the first
time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.

With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example worked
was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the document done,
not futz around with the example.

Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com

They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed comments.
So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away. First time I've
had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX cannot
be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is required
than to change example text to your own text in a pre-configured template.
To this end, templates on this website have been carefully pulled apart,
cleaned up and made easier to use for the average person just starting to
use LaTeX.

-- Rich



On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:

 On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


 The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
 commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
 some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
 fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
 with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
 of time finding work arounds.

 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
 something, they say it's a regression.  Oh, BS!!  That's just
 political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
 would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
 political spin.

 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
 period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
 find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
 myself, How did they miss that?


 I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
 and worse, with commercial software as well.


 Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The
 question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I
 think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more
 attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.

 These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has both
 free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers will be
 more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is to get you
 to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't think very many
 people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, will opt to
 purchase the paid version.


  For me, the difference
 between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
 problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
 for help from the person who wrote it.


 Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to get
 in touch with.


  For example, this list is
 well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.


 Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also,
 because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the
 average word processor.


  Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
 reading from scripts.


 Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much
 more helpful than the larger vendors.

 I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a problem,
 I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally figured out
 what triggered the problem, but I'm not checked for an update.


 --
 Ken

 Mac OS X 10.8.5
 Firefox 24.0
 Thunderbird 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.


Not sure how you feel, so no reply.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote:

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley rich.tal...@gmail.com wrote:


Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.


Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.


Pure curiosity, Les, but have you asked to see if they will accept a PDF 
file?  I'd tell them those files are far easier to deal with between 
programs and platforms, and you don't have to buy Word in order to 
create them.


I sometimes think people ask for the Word format out of ignorance of 
anything else.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech
support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of
replying with canned responses.


Most of the time, you can't get help from the big guys, really pisses me 
off.



My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical
manuals quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things
in the cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get
longer and more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on
content and produced very professional output.


I'm hoping my experience parallels yours.  And you are right about Word, 
at least the XP and 2003 versions.  The bigger the project, the bigger 
the piece of crap it turned out to be.  The time is long gone when I 
could afford to buy programs to find one that worked, and I had really 
hoped for better performance from open source software.  As I've posted, 
with a few exceptions, that hasn't happened.



I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the
first time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.


I have no idea what KOMA-script is, but no need to explain it.  I don't 
think I'm ready to absorb the details.  LOL  LyX looks to be rather out 
of the box from you basic office suite thinking, and I want to get that 
under control before getting into any tweaking.


For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program 
I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will 
probably not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep 
research info with different file formats withing the Scrivener program 
itself.  So I need only one program running rather than a number of 
programs.



With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example
worked was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the
document done, not futz around with the example.


EXACTLY!!  As I've posted in other open source places, I DON'T	want to 
be their beta tester, I want to use the software.



Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com


Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed
comments. So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away.
First time I've had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX
cannot be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is
required than to change example text to your own text in a
pre-configured template. To this end, templates on this website have
been carefully pulled apart, cleaned up and made easier to use for the
average person just starting to use LaTeX.


This sounds like the average computer user, we just want to use the 
product, not tweak it, test it, etc.  I like this attitude, compared to 
some attitudes I've seen expressed.


I learned a long time ago, I don't want to program computers.


-- Rich



snip remaining text

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer snowsh...@q.com wrote:

 



 LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite
 thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any
 tweaking.


As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'. You
get some content in and get a preliminary output - at that point you'll
want to tweak the output because that's what you're used to with WYSIWYG
word processors like Word. Don't. TeX knows more about typesetting than you
or I will ever learn. Concentrate on the content and structure of your
document. Save any tweaking for the final output - there's usually a few
things that need to be manually adjusted by judicious addition of white
space. Leave the heavy lifting to TeX. This was my biggest hurdle at the
beginning.




 For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program
 I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will probably
 not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep research info with
 different file formats withing the Scrivener program itself.  So I need
 only one program running rather than a number of programs.


I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project
management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for
everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good luck
with it.



  Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
 moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

 http://www.latextemplates.com


 Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


You're welcome.

-- Rich



 snip remaining text

Custom Lyx and LaTeX classes in the document tree

[Janosch Maier]

Hi there!

I am currently working on various Lyx files, thate reside in a tree that
looks the following:

doc
|
+-document1
+-document2
+-document3
+-...

The documents are build using cmake on different machines (Linux and OSX).

I have created a custom Lyx class with corresponding LaTeX class, that
should be used for alle the documents. The files reside in /doc/layout.

When I link my class files tho the appropriate locations:
~/.lyx/layouts
~/.texmf/tex/latex/local/classname/classname.cls
and chose the class in the Lyx editor, the documents compile.

Is there any way to make Lyx look in the /doc/layout folder for my classes?

Unfortunately it is not possible to copy the class files on all systems,
that are used for building. A solution using environment variables would
be fine, as I can set them using my makefile.

Regards
Janosch
-- 
Janosch Maier  -- http://phynformatik.de
This E-Mais is signed via GnuPG . My public key:
0xEB21B1DE

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC

I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download

Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-
Rechner

to add in

/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is

deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free 
contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main

Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von 
ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  
Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: 
»/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 
2.0.3?

Wolfgang

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Philipp Gröne]

Hi there!Try this deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-freedeb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-freedeb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contribin your /etc/apt/sources.list. This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .Are you aware about the Debian release policy?Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and unstable (i.e. Sid).The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes, while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.So try the following commands:sudo synaptic updatesudo synaptic -t unstable install lyxHope this helped.Greetings!Ph.P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.On Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:36:14 +0200, Wolfgang Engelmann  wrote:
Hello,
I am still trying to install lyx2.0.6
I am on debian wheezy and use an amd64 PC
 
I am told in
http://packages.debian.org/sid/amd64/lyx/download
 
Download-Seite für lyx_2.0.6-1+b1_amd64.deb für AMD64-Rechner
 
to add in
 
/etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main 
which I did. 
My /etc/apt/sources.list is
 
deb ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ wheezy/updates main non-free contrib
deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main
 
Question 1: Is this correct or do I miss something?
Question 2: Why do I get this from synaptic:
Fehlschlag beim Holen von ftp://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources  Datei konnte nicht heruntergeladen werden; Server meldet: »/debian/dists/wheezy/updates/main/source/Sources: No such file or directory 
Question 3: Why does synaptic not show the desired lyx version, but only 2.0.3?
 
Wolfgang
 

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
> This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
> which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
> sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
> sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

> Hi there!
> 
> Try this
> 
> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> 
> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
> non-free
> 
> deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
> 
> in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
> 
> This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
> which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
> 
> Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
> 
> Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
> unstable (i.e. Sid).
> The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
> while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
> means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
> 
> I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
> version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
> default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
> 
> So try the following commands:
> 
> sudo synaptic update
> sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
> 
> Hope this helped.
> 
> Greetings!
> Ph.
> 
> P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
> (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
> a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
> 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Richard Talley wrote:

> I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
> manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me deal
> with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.
>
> LyX really came through for me.
>
> Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script
> v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!
>
> Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
> under development for seven years.
>
> Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
> without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.
>
> Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
> class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in the
> preamble of this document; for more information look at the documentation
> of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'
>
> Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this: 'Until
> a decent manual is written, you can always look in the "examples" directory
> for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'
>
> The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually exist.
> There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years of
> development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.
>
> I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
> works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the documentation.
> In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not work on the
> documentation for the tool to produce the document.
>
> Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time to
> produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the time
> to explain how to use it.
>
> (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly documented.
> Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)
>
> -- Rich
>
>
So what point exactly do you want to make here ?

Vincent

lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Hello, bad news

I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,  
but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many  
errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working  
(could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the  
result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can  
not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to  
use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be  
I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.

I am writing this from my notebook.

Wolfgang

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Csikos Bela]

Richard Talley  írta:
>I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical 
>manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didnt make me 
>deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.
>LyX really came through for me.
>Now Im helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the KOMA-script 
>v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!
>Now on to the résumé. Lets see whats available. ModernCV looks good, 
>under development for seven years.
>Except it wont accept last names much longer than the authors name 
>without hyphenation. Searching produces lots of hacks to deal with this.
...
[Long snip]

Hello:

I don't understand how the subject line is related to your problem.

Furthermore I even don't think what you've described is a problem, especially

is related to lyx.


As I understand correctly you miss a good CV class file and corresponding

documentation and working example file. My opinion is as follows:

One can make nice looking CV without a class file, especially in lyx.

IMO in latex some of the class files are required only since they, or some of 
their

commands only  replace the "what you see" part of WYSWYG programs. That is,

by using class file options and commands, without seeing the result you know 
how your 

document will look, since you know which command does what (e.g. title goes to 
top

center, author below title, etc.).

However lyx has a semi "what you see" GUI; using lyx and changing 
options/settings

in lyx will be reflected in the GUI and according to more or less the final 
output.

With a few clicks you can optimize your output according to your needs without

using the specific class option offered only by the given class. 

All in all you can make professionally looking CV using the article class and 
formatting

the document by setting and changing lyx options (paragraph, font, etc).

Regards,

bcsikos

Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[s . noble]

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
"\setbibpreamble" command, followed by a "minisec" section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few "\breakBibliograpy"
commands, each followed by "minisec" section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first "minisec"
title, immediately following the "\setbibpreamble" command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the "\protect" command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
"footmisc" package documentation, and I've added "\usepackage[stable]{footmisc}"
to the preamble. The "stable" option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
"minisec" title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd & 3rd "minisec" titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.

Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide.

Sebastien

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 10:57:52 Philipp Gröne wrote:

Thanks, Philipp

for your extensive explanations and proposals.
Interesting, this list:
> This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
> which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
However, I am ignorant as far as 
repository name, description, repository homepage, How to, PPGkeys is 
concerned
APT URL xxrepository.com %r main contrib
what would I use for repository?

Is the created sources.list of the site mentioned mailed to me?

For the time being I used your proposed
> sudo synaptic update
and wait until it is done before I come to 
> sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx

Wolfgang

> Hi there!
> 
> Try this
> 
> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
> 
> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy-updates main contrib
> non-free
> 
> deb http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
> 
> deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian sid main non-free contrib
> 
> in your /etc/apt/sources.list.
> 
> This was generated by http://debgen.simplylinux.ch/ , a pretty cool site
> which will generate you a /etc/apt/sources.list .
> 
> Are you aware about the Debian release policy?
###
yes
> 
> Your are mixing two versions of Debian, stable (i.e. Wheezy) and
> unstable (i.e. Sid).
> The Packages in Wheezy won't get any updates except security fixes,
> while Sid contains packages which are developed continously - this
> means, more bugs, but also newer version numbers.
> 
> I don't know how to do this in synaptic, but you need to specify the
> version APT should get a given package from. Else it will use the
> default which is wheezy(stable) in your case.
> 
> So try the following commands:
> 
> sudo synaptic update
> sudo synaptic -t unstable install lyx
> 
> Hope this helped.
> 
> Greetings!
> Ph.
> 
> P.S.: Is there a reason why you use stable? I've found Debian testing
> (Jessie) stable enough for everything I want to do. (I've never run into
> a bug). Then you won't have the issue of outdated packages.
> 
#
actually not. Just: Never change a running system. 
But I need lyx2.0.6 since I have documents made with it and it is not in 
stable.

Re: lyx2.0.6

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

On Wednesday 23 October 2013 15:16:23 Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> Hello, bad news
> 
> I tried to update as suggested by Philipp using the synaptic command,
> but got after a long time of retrieving and installing packages many
> errors which I had collected in a reply mail (gnome -but I use kde ...).
> In trying to send it it turned out that the KMail was not working
> (could not find the mail provider). So I restarted the PC with the
> result that it freezes at the login Menu (user, password) and I can
> not move the mouse anymore, ctr alt del does not work. I could try to
> use a knoppix dvd for recovery, but do not know what to do. So may be
> I should ask somebody from the Linux User Group Tuebingen for help.
> I am writing this from my notebook.
> 
> Wolfgang

Sorry for this Mail. I have gone into the recovery mode and checked various 
things. Starting the PC again brought me back to x windows screen. 
Synaptics told me there are defect packages which were repaired. Afterward 
I was able to install the 2.0.6 lyx.

I guess, what happens was that in 
sudo synaptic update 
I might not have waited long enough ...
Anyway it is now working again and I can use now the lyx2.0.6.
Thanks for the help and sorry for the noise.

Wolfgang 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Les Denham]

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley  wrote:

> Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
> under development for seven years.

Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.

Sigh.

Les

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the "examples"
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in 
Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.


I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his 
comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.



When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got 
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.


I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back 
to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?


There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick 
comments, and leave it at that.


1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the 
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.


2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I 
did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to 
anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the 
assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They 
aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:


a.  Why would I use the program?
b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some 
of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing 
existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with 
competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time 
finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political 
spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, 
"How did they miss that?"




So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And 
they have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.


That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now. 
 Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give 
LyX a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ernesto Posse]

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer  wrote:

> On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:
>
>> I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some technical
>> manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't make me
>> deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.
>>
>> LyX really came through for me.
>>
>> Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
>> KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent. Looks good!
>>
>> Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
>> under development for seven years.
>>
>> Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
>> without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal with this.
>>
>> Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The moderncv
>> class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are explained in
>> the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
>> documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'
>>
>> Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes this:
>> 'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the "examples"
>> directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi, ps or
>> pdf.'
>>
>> The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
>> exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained. Seven years
>> of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.
>>
>> I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how open source
>> works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
>> documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document NOW, not
>> work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.
>>
>> Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have the time
>> to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to make the
>> time to explain how to use it.
>>
>> (Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
>> documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source generally.)
>>
>> -- Rich
>>
>
> To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as in
> Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in general.
>
> I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states his
> comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.
>
>
> When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got into
> the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.
>
> I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving back to
> commercial software.  A fair question is, why?
>
> There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some quick
> comments, and leave it at that.
>
> 1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
> software is buggy, or some features just don't work.
>
> 2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do, and I
> did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even assigned to
> anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for awhile, but the
> assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as minor.  Well...  They
> aren't minor to me!!  If the developers don't/won't fix it, then:
>
> a.  Why would I use the program?
> b.  Why would I recommend the program?
>
> The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
> commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, some of
> which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not fixing
> existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, with
> competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot of time
> finding work arounds.
>
> 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
> something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just political
> spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I would
> appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than political spin.
>
> 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
> period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and find
> bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask myself, "How
> did they miss that?"
>
>
>
> So, the open source community, as a whole, has lost a supporter.  And they
> have a long, long way to go if they want me to recommend them.
>
> That being said, I've started a small writing project, for fun for now.
>  Part of the writing will be done in a commercial program.  I will give LyX
> a try, 2.06 is installed, but haven't had time to start using it.
>
>
> --
> Ken
>
> Mac OS X 10.8.5
> Firefox 24.0
> Thunderbird 17.0.8
> LibreOffice 4.1.1.2
>
>


-- 
Ernesto Posse

Modelling and Analysis in Software Engineering
School of Computing
Queen's University - Kingston, Ontario, Canada

Re: why people give up on open source software

[David L. Johnson]

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a 
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features, 
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not 
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business, 
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot 
of time finding work arounds.


3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken 
something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just 
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I 
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than 
political spin.


4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a 
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and 
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask 
myself, "How did they miss that?"


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues, 
and worse, with commercial software as well.  For me, the difference 
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a 
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask 
for help from the person who wrote it.  For example, this list is 
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.  
Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people 
reading from scripts.







--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here.  If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


I do have some "free" software installed, some open source, some not. 
But I get updates and bug fixes from the "free" software, not so much 
from the open source software in the way of bug fixes.


On 10/23/13 10:50 AM, Ernesto Posse wrote:

You do understand that a lot of open-source software, including LyX, is
developed by *volunteers*, do you?


On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Springer > wrote:

On 10/22/13 10:19 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

I originally picked up on LyX because I needed to produce some
technical
manuals quickly that looked good to management and that didn't
make me
deal with the WYSIWYG nightmares of Word and its ilk.

LyX really came through for me.

Now I'm helping a friend apply to graduate school. I used the
KOMA-script v. 2 letter class to typeset his letter of intent.
Looks good!

Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks
good,
under development for seven years.

Except it won't accept last names much longer than the author's name
without hyphenation. Searching produces lot's of hacks to deal
with this.

Run the example that comes with LyX. Note in example says, 'The
moderncv
class offers lots of customization possibilities; some are
explained in
the preamble of this document; for more information look at the
documentation of the LaTeX-package moderncv.'

Yeah, right. The README for moderncv is very short and includes
this:
'Until a decent manual is written, you can always look in the
"examples"
directory for some examples. Documents can be compiled into dvi,
ps or pdf.'

The example LyX file points to documentation that doesn't actually
exist. There is no 'more information'. Nothing is explained.
Seven years
of development and there's nothing that Aunt Tillie can use.

I know what I'm going to hear, 'Do it yourself', 'That's how
open source
works'. I agree. Perhaps I'll find the time to work on the
documentation. In the meantime, I need to produce a document
NOW, not
work on the documentation for the tool to produce the document.

Lesson: Please don't point to ghost documentation. If you have
the time
to produce something that you expect people to use, you need to
make the
time to explain how to use it.

(Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to LyX itself, which is richly
documented. Just to accessories to LyX and to open source
generally.)

-- Rich


To all, what I'm about to write doesn't specifically to LyX, but as
in Rich's disclaimer, it applies to the open source community in
general.

I totally understand Rich's frustrations, although he clearly states
his comments about the ModernCV site do not apply to LyX.


When I bought this Mac, it was more than I should have spent.  I got
into the open source programs, and encouraged others to do so.

I no longer encourage others to use it.  Myself, I'm slowly moving
back to commercial software.  A fair question is, why?

There's no universal answer to the question.  I'll just do some
quick comments, and leave it at that.

1.  Web pages make claims as to the abilities to do a job.  But the
software is buggy, or some features just don't work.

2.  Some pages ask you to become involved, and file bugs.  You do,
and I did.  But, after a year and a half, the bugs are not even
assigned to anyone, much less fixed.  One bug was assigned for
awhile, but the assignment has been removed.  Both are classed as
minor.  Well...  They aren't minor to me!!  If the developers
don't/won't fix it, then:

 a.  Why would I use the program?
 b.  Why would I recommend the program?

The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by
not fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a
business, with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you
spend a lot of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.
  I would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over
a period of time, the quality assurance/testing 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:

On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:


The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
of time finding work arounds.

3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just
political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
political spin.

4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
myself, "How did they miss that?"


I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
and worse, with commercial software as well.


Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The 
question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I 
think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more 
attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.


These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has 
both free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers 
will be more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is 
to get you to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't 
think very many people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, 
will opt to purchase the paid version.



For me, the difference
between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
for help from the person who wrote it.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to 
get in touch with.



For example, this list is
well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.


Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also, 
because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the 
average word processor.



Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
reading from scripts.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much 
more helpful than the larger vendors.


I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a 
problem, I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally 
figured out what triggered the problem, but I'm not checked for an update.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:
I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are 
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.

Vincent

Re: Footnote: now you see it, now you don't

[Richard Heck]

On 10/23/2013 10:29 AM, s.no...@free.fr wrote:

Hello list members,

Please bear with me as I'm a newcomer to LyX.

Here's the issue: I have a footnote which has disappeared--or, in other words,
which is not showing up with the other footnotes at the bottom of the page--and
I have no idea how to get it back.

Here's the context: I'm using the Koma-script book class (LyX 2.0.6 on Mac OS X
10.7) and this is happening in the Bibliography. I have appendices, then the
Bibliography. The Bibliography has different sections. It begins with a
"\setbibpreamble" command, followed by a "minisec" section title which
introduces the first set of references. Later come a few "\breakBibliograpy"
commands, each followed by "minisec" section titles to introduce the other
sections of the bibliography. So far, so good. However, the first "minisec"
title, immediately following the "\setbibpreamble" command,  has a footnote
reference mark at the end, and should have a corresponding footnote at the
bottom of the page. The footnote mark gets printed in the PDF output, but the
footnote does not--it goes AWOL.

I've tried to add the "\protect" command (in ERT) before the problematic
footnote in the heading, but it makes no difference. I've also read through the
"footmisc" package documentation, and I've added "\usepackage[stable]{footmisc}"
to the preamble. The "stable" option is supposed to deal with footnote hassles
in headings, but here it makes no difference.

I just can't figure out what's going on. It seems to be related to the first
"minisec" title in the bibliography preamble. I've placed test footnotes at the
end of the 2nd & 3rd "minisec" titles later in the Bibliography, and they get
printed as normal. It's the first that is going AWOL.


So, just to be clear: This is really a LaTeX question. It's possible 
someone here will know the answer, since there are plenty of people here 
with LaTeX knowledge. But it's also possible (indeed, likely) that 
no-one here has ever tried this combination of things, and so that 
no-one here has any relevant information.


All of which is by way of saying you might try somewhere else if you 
don't get any help here: Stack Exchange, or the comp.text.tex usenet 
group (which is very active).


My guess would be that there's some incompatibility between the various 
things you are trying to use. But how to remedy it? No idea.


Richard

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech support
at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of replying
with canned responses.

My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical manuals
quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things in the
cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get longer and
more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on content and
produced very professional output.

I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the first
time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.

With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example worked
was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the document done,
not futz around with the example.

Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com

They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed comments.
So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away. First time I've
had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

"I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX cannot
be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is required
than to change example text to your own text in a pre-configured template.
To this end, templates on this website have been carefully pulled apart,
cleaned up and made easier to use for the average person just starting to
use LaTeX."

-- Rich



On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Ken Springer  wrote:

> On 10/23/13 11:24 AM, David L. Johnson wrote:
>
>> On 10/23/2013 12:33 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The program I filed the bugs with is one that wishes to take on a
>>> commercial program in the marketplace.  And they add new features,
>>> some of which are inevitable buggy.  But the attitude exhibited by not
>>> fixing existing bugs is very unprofessional.  If you are a business,
>>> with competition, you want tools that work, not tools you spend a lot
>>> of time finding work arounds.
>>>
>>> 3.  When the new version comes out, and the developers have broken
>>> something, they say it's a "regression".  Oh, BS!!  That's just
>>> political spin for not saying they screwed up and didn't catch it.  I
>>> would appreciate the pure honesty of admitting a mistake than
>>> political spin.
>>>
>>> 4.  My impression is, for most open source software I've tried over a
>>> period of time, the quality assurance/testing program to look for and
>>> find bugs is seriously flawed.  Some bugs are blatant, and I ask
>>> myself, "How did they miss that?"
>>>
>>
>> I look at those complaints, and wonder that you don't see such issues,
>> and worse, with commercial software as well.
>>
>
> Invariably, there will be bugs in any sophisticated software.  The
> question that arises for me is, are they important to the developer?  I
> think, when the developers are being paid for their work, they are more
> attentive to fixing the bugs, as their next paycheck depends on it.
>
> These days, when I do suggest software, it's often a program that has both
> free and paid versions.  My theory is, that programs developers will be
> more attentive to bugs in the free version as the incentive is to get you
> to purchase the more sophisticated paid version.  I don't think very many
> people, when finding a lot of bugs in the free version, will opt to
> purchase the paid version.
>
>
>  For me, the difference
>> between commercial software and open-source is that, when you do have a
>> problem, you have a chance, with open-source software, to actually ask
>> for help from the person who wrote it.
>>
>
> Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I think smaller developers are easier to get
> in touch with.
>
>
>  For example, this list is
>> well-populated by the actual developers of LyX, who are very helpful.
>>
>
> Which is what I'd read online, and why I'm going to try LyX.  Also,
> because it's a typesetting program.  And I want better output than the
> average word processor.
>
>
>  Commercial support will connect you with a call center full of people
>> reading from scripts.
>>
>
> Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  I've found the smaller vendors to be much
> more helpful than the larger vendors.
>
> I have a file management program on this Mac, and when I found a problem,
> I ended up talking via email about the problem.  We finally 

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 12:42 PM, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:

Ken Springer schreef op 23-10-2013 19:41:

I do, but that's no excuse for being nonprofessional in what you are
trying to do.  Adding features while ignoring bugs is nonprofessional.


Not professional ? Right, don't use it then.


Not sure how you feel, so no reply.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 10:34 AM, Les Denham wrote:

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:19:38 -0600
Richard Talley  wrote:


Now on to the résumé. Let's see what's available. ModernCV looks good,
under development for seven years.


Richard,

That's what I thought too. The documentation is, as you point out,
rather sketchy. But with a little effort I managed a very nice looking
CV.

Now the really big problem: most, in fact almost all, advertised job
vacancies only accept resumes in MS Word format. So I had to get my
very nice CV into LibreOffice (where it did not look very nice) and
save it in DOCX format.


Pure curiosity, Les, but have you asked to see if they will accept a PDF 
file?  I'd tell them those files are far easier to deal with between 
programs and platforms, and you don't have to buy Word in order to 
create them.


I sometimes think people ask for the Word format out of ignorance of 
anything else.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Ken Springer]

On 10/23/13 2:31 PM, Richard Talley wrote:

Interesting comments. I too have found small vendors to be much more
helpful. Often the developers help with or even do all of the tech
support at small vendors. And they actually read my emails, instead of
replying with canned responses.


Most of the time, you can't get help from the big guys, really pisses me 
off.



My experience with LyX has been mostly excellent. I started using it at
work a number of years ago because I need to produce some technical
manuals quickly. I wanted something that would not lose track of things
in the cross-references and TOC (as Word is wont to do as documents get
longer and more complex). LyX allowed me to get to work right away on
content and produced very professional output.


I'm hoping my experience parallels yours.  And you are right about Word, 
at least the XP and 2003 versions.  The bigger the project, the bigger 
the piece of crap it turned out to be.  The time is long gone when I 
could afford to buy programs to find one that worked, and I had really 
hoped for better performance from open source software.  As I've posted, 
with a few exceptions, that hasn't happened.



I've used the KOMA-script versions of report, article and book, and I've
also used the letter template that comes with LyX. Yesterday was the
first time I ever tried to use one of the examples that come with LyX.


I have no idea what KOMA-script is, but no need to explain it.  I don't 
think I'm ready to absorb the details.  LOL  LyX looks to be rather out 
of the box from you basic office suite thinking, and I want to get that 
under control before getting into any tweaking.


For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program 
I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will 
probably not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep 
research info with different file formats withing the Scrivener program 
itself.  So I need only one program running rather than a number of 
programs.



With scant documentation, the only way to figure out how the example
worked was trial and error. I wanted to concentrate on getting the
document done, not futz around with the example.


EXACTLY!!  As I've posted in other open source places, I DON'T	want to 
be their beta tester, I want to use the software.



Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
moderncv, I chanced upon this site:

http://www.latextemplates.com


Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


They have a template based on moderndv very similar to the example that
comes with LyX, but the TeX source file has complete and detailed
comments. So I switched to TeXShop and got good results right away.
First time I've had to do that.

I like the words of the Kiwi whose site it is:

"I am by no means an expert on LaTeX, but I recognize that others are
similar to myself and only want to use LaTeX as a tool to create a
document, without having to dig around in forums for solutions on how to
tweak the document in some small way. There is no reason that LaTeX
cannot be a simple platform for creating documents where little more is
required than to change example text to your own text in a
pre-configured template. To this end, templates on this website have
been carefully pulled apart, cleaned up and made easier to use for the
average person just starting to use LaTeX."


This sounds like the average computer user, we just want to use the 
product, not tweak it, test it, etc.  I like this attitude, compared to 
some attitudes I've seen expressed.


I learned a long time ago, I don't want to program computers.


-- Rich





--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
LibreOffice 4.1.1.2

Re: why people give up on open source software

[Richard Talley]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ken Springer  wrote:

> 
>


> LyX looks to be rather out of the box from you basic office suite
> thinking, and I want to get that under control before getting into any
> tweaking.
>

As you get started with LyX resist the temptation to 'finger paint'. You
get some content in and get a preliminary output - at that point you'll
want to tweak the output because that's what you're used to with WYSIWYG
word processors like Word. Don't. TeX knows more about typesetting than you
or I will ever learn. Concentrate on the content and structure of your
document. Save any tweaking for the final output - there's usually a few
things that need to be manually adjusted by judicious addition of white
space. Leave the heavy lifting to TeX. This was my biggest hurdle at the
beginning.


>
>
> For those reading this, that may be interested in the commercial program
> I'm trying now, it's called Scrivener.  Print output I want will probably
> not be possible, but I really like it's ability to keep research info with
> different file formats withing the Scrivener program itself.  So I need
> only one program running rather than a number of programs.
>
>
I've read good things about Scrivener. It's more a 'book project
management' program than a word processor. I know some people use it for
everything until it's time to print, then they export to LaTeX. Good luck
with it.



>  Something good did come out of this. In searching for information about
>> moderncv, I chanced upon this site:
>>
>> http://www.latextemplates.com
>>
>
> Looks very interesting, I've bookmarked it.  Thanks.


You're welcome.

-- Rich



>