Re: Bold lower case Greek letters in Times Roman font

[list_email]

> On Jan 29, 2019, at 7:28 AM, Paul A. Rubin  wrote:
> 
> On 1/28/19 11:05 PM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:
>>> On Jan 28, 2019, at 7:21 AM, Paul A. Rubin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/28/19 2:59 AM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:
> On Jan 27, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Paul A. Rubin  wrote:
> 
> On 1/27/19 7:09 PM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:
>> Am I correct in thinking that the Times Roman font has no bold lower 
>> case Greek characters?
>> 
>> Jerry
> I don't think it's a font issue so much as a LaTeX issue: 
> https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/595/how-can-i-get-bold-math-symbols.
> 
> Paul
> 
 Yes, I read that page before posting and am having good results with the 
 eighth idea on that page--"Use the command \boldsymbol{YOUR_SYMBOL}”--BUT 
 NOT WITH TIMES ROMAN. I am using Utopia in the body of my paper with the 
 Fourier math font and boldsymbol _works_ for that (those) font(s). 
 However, I expect that at some point I might have to switch to Times Roman 
 for journal publication and boldsymbol _does_not_work then. I think I read 
 that this (bold Greek or bold lower-case Greek) can be a problem with some 
 fonts and I’m concerned that Times Roman is one of them.
 
 Jerry
>>> Works for me with Times Roman. In the attached LyX file, note the use of 
>>> Times Roman as the math font (font settings) and the inclusion of the 'bm' 
>>> package (preamble settings). The PDF file shows the difference between bold 
>>> and ordinary weight. It might not be as much as I would like on some 
>>> symbols (the omegas are a trifle close for my taste), but the bold symbols 
>>> are definitely heavier than the non-bold symbols.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> 
>> Thanks, Paul. Interestingly, I get the same results without the bm package 
>> but by using \boldsymbol on the Times Roman (New TX) mathfont.
>> 
>> Jerry
> Times Roman (New TX) is what I was using at my end. You're right about not 
> needing the bm package, which defines the \bm command, an alternative to 
> \boldsymbol. I tried \bm and \boldsymbol side by side, and the PDF output 
> looks about the same to me.
> 
> Paul
> 
Thanks for all the help, Paul and Günter.
Jerry

Re: Bold lower case Greek letters in Times Roman font

[Paul A. Rubin]

On 1/28/19 11:05 PM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:

On Jan 28, 2019, at 7:21 AM, Paul A. Rubin  wrote:

On 1/28/19 2:59 AM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:

On Jan 27, 2019, at 6:07 PM, Paul A. Rubin  wrote:

On 1/27/19 7:09 PM, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:

Am I correct in thinking that the Times Roman font has no bold lower case Greek 
characters?

Jerry

I don't think it's a font issue so much as a LaTeX issue: 
https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/595/how-can-i-get-bold-math-symbols.

Paul


Yes, I read that page before posting and am having good results with the eighth idea 
on that page--"Use the command \boldsymbol{YOUR_SYMBOL}”--BUT NOT WITH TIMES 
ROMAN. I am using Utopia in the body of my paper with the Fourier math font and 
boldsymbol _works_ for that (those) font(s). However, I expect that at some point I 
might have to switch to Times Roman for journal publication and boldsymbol 
_does_not_work then. I think I read that this (bold Greek or bold lower-case Greek) 
can be a problem with some fonts and I’m concerned that Times Roman is one of them.

Jerry

Works for me with Times Roman. In the attached LyX file, note the use of Times 
Roman as the math font (font settings) and the inclusion of the 'bm' package 
(preamble settings). The PDF file shows the difference between bold and 
ordinary weight. It might not be as much as I would like on some symbols (the 
omegas are a trifle close for my taste), but the bold symbols are definitely 
heavier than the non-bold symbols.

Paul



Thanks, Paul. Interestingly, I get the same results without the bm package but 
by using \boldsymbol on the Times Roman (New TX) mathfont.

Jerry
Times Roman (New TX) is what I was using at my end. You're right about 
not needing the bm package, which defines the \bm command, an 
alternative to \boldsymbol. I tried \bm and \boldsymbol side by side, 
and the PDF output looks about the same to me.


Paul

Re: Bold lower case Greek letters in Times Roman font

[Guenter Milde]

On 2019-01-29, list_em...@icloud.com wrote:
>> On Jan 28, 2019, at 5:45 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:

>> You can get a rich choice of mathematical symbols/characters matching
>> Times Roman (including bold Greek letters) with the selection "Times
>> Roman (New TX)" in Document>Settings>Fonts>Maths.

> Oh, thanks. I didn’t think of that (Times Roman (New TX)). That is a
> useful workaround. Surely publishers have a different workaround if in
> fact Times Roman is deficient. I just wonder if this workaround is
> compatible with their workaround, if any. 

Commercial mathematical fonts matching Times are available from
Micropress with TeX support by the package tmmath: https://ctan.org/pkg/tmmath

The "newtx" package (https://ctan.org/pkg/newtx) is not just a workaround
but the recommended free maths font package to match Times text fonts.

Alternatively, you can use the "STIX fonts"¹ (either for both, text and maths
oder in combination with Times as text font.

With XeTeX/LuaTeX, you can use non-TeX fonts and unicode-math with, e.g.
TeX Gyre or STIX¹
https://ctan.org/pkg/tex-gyre-math-termes
https://ctan.org/pkg/stix2-otf

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STIX_Fonts_project



*Mathematicl* font setup is conceptually and functionally different from
*text* mode fonts.  Unless your document contains Greek text parts or
words, you may skip the setup of Greek text fonts (but it may help to get
letters for, say, π-mesons).


>> For text, you can use the Times lookalike "Artemisia" from the Greek Font
>> Societey, e.g. via http://ctan.org/pkg/substitutefont

> I didn’t try your Artemisia suggestion yet but I see that you are the
> maintainer, so thanks for that.

Actually, I just created and maintain the "substitutefont" package. It is
intended to combine matching 8-bit fonts for different scripts, because
quite often font developers for, say, Greek miss advanced Latin features
(letter ß or ð, say) while fonts for Latin have only basic or no Greek or
Cyrillic support.

> It does look like a nice font although it is not a Times lookalike to
> my eyes.

You are right, Artemisia is not a lookalike.

  GFS Artemisia is a relatively modern font, designed as a ‘general
  purpose’ font in the same sense as Times is nowadays treated.
  
  --- https://www.ctan.org/pkg/gfsartemisia

However, it is just an example. You can try any Greek font with 8-bit TeX
support (cf. https://www.ctan.org/topic/font-greek,
https://www.ctan.org/pkg/gfs, https://www.ctan.org/pkg/psgreek).

Again, you can also use XeTeX/LuaTeX with any Unicode (non-TeX) font that
contains all required characters. LyX will tell you if characters are missing.

Günter

Günter

Re: biblatex usepackage location in the preamble

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Di., 29. Jan. 2019 um 10:53 Uhr schrieb Baris Erkus <
bariser...@hotmail.com>:

> No, it is part of the preamble:
> http://joshua.smcvt.edu/latex2e/_005cAtBeginDocument.html
>
> I couldn't confirm this. See for example this SE answer
> .
> Anyhow, this may be an issue related to the macro as you have said.
>
>
\AtBeginDocument is a somewhat liminal beast. Technically, it is part of
the preamble, but it is also issued at a stage where some things have
already been processed.

A good explanation is given by Philipp Lehman in the etoolbox manual:

"Any \AtBeginDocument code is executed towards the beginning of the
document body, after the main aux file has been read
for the first time. [...] In a way, \AtBeginDocument code is part neither
of the preamble nor the document body but located in-between them since it
gets executed in the middle of the
initialization sequence performed prior to typesetting. It is sometimes
desirable to move code to the end of the preamble because all requested
packages have been
loaded at this point. \AtBeginDocument code, however, is executed too late
if it is required in the aux file. In contrast to that, \AtEndPreamble code
is part of the
preamble."

This might be just the issue here.

> Adding a new localization is quite straightforward and not too much work.
> If you feel like contributing that, it would be a good way to "give back"
> to the community:
>
> https://github.com/plk/biblatex/wiki/Checklist-for-submitting-a-new-localisation-file-(.lbx)
>
> Actually, I have spent couple of hours working on a Turkish lbx file
> yesterday. Indeed, it does not look complicated. Still it requires
> attention from people with expertise in Turkish publishing rules.
>
> I will start a GitHub project on this, and see if I can get help ldx. I
> will fix the parts that I need in the mean time.
>
Great. You could also file a ticket at the biblatex tracker to make people
aware of your effort. This might help attracting other:
https://github.com/plk/biblatex/issues

Jürgen



> Thanks for the help!
> --
>
> ↓↓
> Please bottom-post. Start your reply here:
>
>

Re: biblatex usepackage location in the preamble

[Baris Erkus]

On 29-Jan-19 12:15 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
Am Mo., 28. Jan. 2019 um 19:51 Uhr schrieb Baris Erkus 
mailto:bariser...@hotmail.com>>:
Thanks Jürgen. This one I understand. However, this requirement does not call 
for loading babel+biblatex right before the \begin{document}; they can still be 
placed right after other packages loaded after \documentclass. The examples on 
BibLaTeX, I sqw SE or other web pages loads BibLaTeX in the block after 
\documentclass, but late.

The loading order of packages is tricky. Some packages need to be loaded after 
the user preamble, and babel needs to be loaded after that, and biblatex after 
babel. Just because this works in your case in the different order does not 
mean it works generally.
Exactly. However, I am not sure if they have to be placed right before the 
\begin{document}.

The only way around that would be a second user preamble:
https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/5366
+1

It does compiling, but the replacement did not work.

I think, the \AtBeginDocument{...}  macro places the contents right after the 
\begin{document}, but not in the preamble.

No, it is part of the preamble:
http://joshua.smcvt.edu/latex2e/_005cAtBeginDocument.html

I couldn't confirm this. See for example this SE 
answer.
 Anyhow, this may be an issue related to the macro as you have said.

[cid:part5.9F8AAA3C.23830C58@hotmail.com]


Try instead:

\usepackage{etoolbox}
\AtEndPreamble{%
...
}
This worked! This is what I need.
Adding a new localization is quite straightforward and not too much work. If 
you feel like contributing that, it would be a good way to "give back" to the 
community:
https://github.com/plk/biblatex/wiki/Checklist-for-submitting-a-new-localisation-file-(.lbx)

Actually, I have spent couple of hours working on a Turkish lbx file yesterday. 
Indeed, it does not look complicated. Still it requires attention from people 
with expertise in Turkish publishing rules.

I will start a GitHub project on this, and see if I can get help ldx. I will 
fix the parts that I need in the mean time.

Thanks for the help!

--

↓↓
Please bottom-post. Start your reply here:

Re: biblatex usepackage location in the preamble

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Mo., 28. Jan. 2019 um 19:51 Uhr schrieb Baris Erkus <
bariser...@hotmail.com>:

> Thanks Jürgen. This one I understand. However, this requirement does not
> call for loading babel+biblatex right before the \begin{document}; they can
> still be placed right after other packages loaded after \documentclass. The
> examples on BibLaTeX, I sqw SE or other web pages loads BibLaTeX in the
> block after \documentclass, but late.
>

The loading order of packages is tricky. Some packages need to be loaded
after the user preamble, and babel needs to be loaded after that, and
biblatex after babel. Just because this works in your case in the different
order does not mean it works generally.

The only way around that would be a second user preamble:
https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/5366


> It does compiling, but the replacement did not work.
>
> I think, the \AtBeginDocument{...}  macro places the contents right after
> the \begin{document}, but not in the preamble.
>
No, it is part of the preamble:
http://joshua.smcvt.edu/latex2e/_005cAtBeginDocument.html

> However, the \DefineBibliographyStrings{...} and similar BibLaTeX commands
> are placed in the preamble according to Section 3.9 of BibLaTeX manual.
> Maybe this is the reason it does not do the replacement (?).
>
I don't think so. The reason might be that it comes too late for biblatex,
which hooks itself into the document.

Try instead:

\usepackage{etoolbox}
\AtEndPreamble{%
...
}


>
> (TBH, this was not my original problem. I was trying to use BibLaTeX for a
> Turkish document, only to find out BibLaTeX does not have Turkish support
> yet :< )
>
Adding a new localization is quite straightforward and not too much work.
If you feel like contributing that, it would be a good way to "give back"
to the community:
https://github.com/plk/biblatex/wiki/Checklist-for-submitting-a-new-localisation-file-(.lbx)

HTH
Jürgen


> Baris
>
> --
> ↓↓
> Please bottom-post. Start your reply here:
>
>

Re: biblatex usepackage location in the preamble

[Baris Erkus]

On 29-Jan-19 9:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
> If I read the documentations for \AtBeginDocument correctly, it places 
> the macro just before \begin{document}. Is your .tex test file working 
> as expected when you move your macro manually to whatever position you 
> think it should be moved? If not then the problem might be the macro 
> rather than LyX.
>
> Daniel
>
The macro works fine if I place it to the required location manually (I 
have sent the LaTeX file in the first e-mail for the record).
The loading sequence of the packages should be like the following 
according the BibLaTeX, which works as expected:

\documentclass[english]{article}
**Misc Packages**
\usepackage{babel}
\usepackage[style=authoryear, maxcitenames=2]{biblatex}
\addbibresource{test.bib}

 Macro 
\DefineBibliographyStrings{english}{%
   references = {{Kaynaklar}},
   and = {ve},
   andothers ={ve diğerleri},
}
 End Macro 

\begin{document}
**Misc**
\printbibliography
\end{document}

Unfortunately, LyX does not do this format as you have mentioned and 
wrapping with macro to place at the beginning of the document does not work.

Baris