Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Sam Lewis
stroboscopicallyconflu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
 LyX, and not block good ideas.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
 functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it 
 needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the
stuff. :)
Liviu


 Cheers, Sam




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Stephan Witt]

Am 13.04.2011 um 17:22 schrieb Diego Queiroz:

  I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their 
  documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.
 
 You get the point!
 And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing 
 filenames!
 The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also 
 want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
 Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as 
 Chapter-5, Appendix, etc). I dunno.
 There are lots of things to consider and this basic requested feature could 
 be improved to a most wanted feature.

Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search your 
files, e. g. by content.
Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you quick 
answer to
arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, 
IMHO.
And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points of view, 
how this should work.

Stephan

Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz queiroz.di...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
 As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
 should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
 And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
 the filename.
 An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).

The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
(Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to my naming
style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
different user habits.)

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
(such as LyX documents containing only ERT).

I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
Liviu



 If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
 field blank instead of newfile?
 The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
 Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
 all of them and hit Save all.
 With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
 (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
 document.
 I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.
 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.
 ---
 Diego Queiroz



 2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de


 Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
  Hey LyX developers!
 
  As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
  \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
  should be saved as.
 
  Do you agree?
 
  Thanks,
 
 Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
 0.02$ as a user.

 Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
 title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
 strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
 Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
 characters then by '?' or '_'.


 Best regards

 Hellmut


 --
 Dr. Hellmut Weber         m...@hellmutweber.de
 Degenfeldstraße 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
 D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
 please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq





-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Walter van Holst]

On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
 your files, e. g. by content.
 Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
 quick answer to
 arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
 feature, IMHO.
 And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
 of view, how this should work.

It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.

I would find a name-suggester that would take:

The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
plus a version number

useful.

The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.

And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
styles.

Regards,

 Walter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

 maybe I'm a bit old fashioned (born in 1943 ;-). So I do not have
this terrible need to do everyzhing the fastest way possible.

I'm young (born in the 80's) and I confess I'm neurotic about automatization
(much over the normal). Sorry if I am too boring sometimes.
I enjoy to make the computer decide things for me, and I enjoy much more
when it make good decisions.
BTW, my reseach area is Artificial Intelligence, so how could I think
different? :-)

 ... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the stuff.
:)

I'm very interested. I have tons of ideas, but I still have problems to set
up a confortable environment to start to code.
Another problem is that I'm still trying to understand some pieces of code,
so it will take some time for me to really contribute with some new feature.

 Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, IMHO.

I agree.
But this thread subject isn't is list of most important features, it is
just a feature request.
Now if it is important or not, its really another question...

 What is left is to determine a consistent behaviour that works in most
cases for most users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously
consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document.

You're probably right. But actually, we really do not know what works in
most cases for most users. We just guess it works for most users.
IMO, this could be a good feature to implement: get statistics of LyX usage
directly from users as other softwares already do (anonymous usage).
Maybe, it is early to think in a thing like this, but it is good to start to
think for the near future (and for god's sake, do not reply me with messages
like I don't think this is the most important feature right now... I know
I know, it is not, ok? :-) ).


Cheers,
---
Diego Queiroz


2011/4/14 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz queiroz.di...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
  As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled,
 everything
  should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
  And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
  the filename.
  An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).
 
 The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
 manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
 disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
 (Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
 useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
 delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to my naming
 style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
 dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
 different user habits.)

 To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
 trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
 determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
 users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
 and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
 behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
 would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
 expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
 suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
 like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
 legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
 (such as LyX documents containing only ERT).

 I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
 developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
 would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
 Liviu



  If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the
 file
  field blank instead of newfile?
  The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
  Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something
 in
  all of them and hit Save all.
  With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
  (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
  document.
  I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.
  IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good
 ideas.
  ---
  Diego Queiroz
 
 
 
  2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
 
 
  Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
   Hey LyX developers!
  
   As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in
 the
   \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the
 file
   should be saved as.
  
   Do you agree?
  
   Thanks,
  
  Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
  0.02$ as a user.
 
  Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
  

Re: A basic requested feature

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 14/04/11 11:36, Walter van Holst wrote:
 On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
 your files, e. g. by content.
 Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
 quick answer to
 arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
 feature, IMHO.
 And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
 of view, how this should work.
 
 It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
 enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
 if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.
 
 I would find a name-suggester that would take:
 
 The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
 using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
 plus a version number
 
 useful.
 
 The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
 include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
 source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.
 
 And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
 styles.

Interesting suggestion - bug I must agree, it is not an overly iportant
feature. But:

Put it as a feature request into the bug tracker - then it won't be
lost. Then all comments can be there and one could work out a framework
how this could work - I like the different templates for filename an
interesting approach, which could even be used for backups (keep the
last three backups, named following the template provided).

Nice idea - but not that important.

So: Add it to the bug tracker as a feature request then it will not be lost.

Rainer

 
 Regards,
 
  Walter
 


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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Re: A basic requested feature

[Richard Heck]

On 04/14/2011 05:03 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!)


See the other thread on how there are too many options already!

Richard

Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Sam Lewis
stroboscopicallyconflu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
 LyX, and not block good ideas.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
 functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it 
 needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the
stuff. :)
Liviu


 Cheers, Sam




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Stephan Witt]

Am 13.04.2011 um 17:22 schrieb Diego Queiroz:

  I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their 
  documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.
 
 You get the point!
 And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing 
 filenames!
 The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also 
 want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
 Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as 
 Chapter-5, Appendix, etc). I dunno.
 There are lots of things to consider and this basic requested feature could 
 be improved to a most wanted feature.

Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search your 
files, e. g. by content.
Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you quick 
answer to
arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, 
IMHO.
And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points of view, 
how this should work.

Stephan

Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz queiroz.di...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
 As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
 should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
 And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
 the filename.
 An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).

The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
(Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to my naming
style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
different user habits.)

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
(such as LyX documents containing only ERT).

I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
Liviu



 If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
 field blank instead of newfile?
 The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
 Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
 all of them and hit Save all.
 With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
 (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
 document.
 I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.
 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.
 ---
 Diego Queiroz



 2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de


 Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
  Hey LyX developers!
 
  As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
  \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
  should be saved as.
 
  Do you agree?
 
  Thanks,
 
 Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
 0.02$ as a user.

 Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
 title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
 strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
 Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
 characters then by '?' or '_'.


 Best regards

 Hellmut


 --
 Dr. Hellmut Weber         m...@hellmutweber.de
 Degenfeldstraße 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
 D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
 please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq





-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Walter van Holst]

On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
 your files, e. g. by content.
 Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
 quick answer to
 arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
 feature, IMHO.
 And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
 of view, how this should work.

It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.

I would find a name-suggester that would take:

The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
plus a version number

useful.

The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.

And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
styles.

Regards,

 Walter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

 maybe I'm a bit old fashioned (born in 1943 ;-). So I do not have
this terrible need to do everyzhing the fastest way possible.

I'm young (born in the 80's) and I confess I'm neurotic about automatization
(much over the normal). Sorry if I am too boring sometimes.
I enjoy to make the computer decide things for me, and I enjoy much more
when it make good decisions.
BTW, my reseach area is Artificial Intelligence, so how could I think
different? :-)

 ... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the stuff.
:)

I'm very interested. I have tons of ideas, but I still have problems to set
up a confortable environment to start to code.
Another problem is that I'm still trying to understand some pieces of code,
so it will take some time for me to really contribute with some new feature.

 Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, IMHO.

I agree.
But this thread subject isn't is list of most important features, it is
just a feature request.
Now if it is important or not, its really another question...

 What is left is to determine a consistent behaviour that works in most
cases for most users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously
consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document.

You're probably right. But actually, we really do not know what works in
most cases for most users. We just guess it works for most users.
IMO, this could be a good feature to implement: get statistics of LyX usage
directly from users as other softwares already do (anonymous usage).
Maybe, it is early to think in a thing like this, but it is good to start to
think for the near future (and for god's sake, do not reply me with messages
like I don't think this is the most important feature right now... I know
I know, it is not, ok? :-) ).


Cheers,
---
Diego Queiroz


2011/4/14 Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com

 On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz queiroz.di...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
  As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled,
 everything
  should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
  And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
  the filename.
  An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).
 
 The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
 manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
 disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
 (Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
 useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
 delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to my naming
 style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
 dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
 different user habits.)

 To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
 trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
 determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
 users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
 and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
 behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
 would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
 expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
 suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
 like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
 legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
 (such as LyX documents containing only ERT).

 I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
 developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
 would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
 Liviu



  If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the
 file
  field blank instead of newfile?
  The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
  Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something
 in
  all of them and hit Save all.
  With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
  (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
  document.
  I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.
  IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good
 ideas.
  ---
  Diego Queiroz
 
 
 
  2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
 
 
  Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
   Hey LyX developers!
  
   As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in
 the
   \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the
 file
   should be saved as.
  
   Do you agree?
  
   Thanks,
  
  Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
  0.02$ as a user.
 
  Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
  

Re: A basic requested feature

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 14/04/11 11:36, Walter van Holst wrote:
 On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
 your files, e. g. by content.
 Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
 quick answer to
 arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
 feature, IMHO.
 And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
 of view, how this should work.
 
 It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
 enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
 if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.
 
 I would find a name-suggester that would take:
 
 The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
 using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
 plus a version number
 
 useful.
 
 The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
 include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
 source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.
 
 And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
 styles.

Interesting suggestion - bug I must agree, it is not an overly iportant
feature. But:

Put it as a feature request into the bug tracker - then it won't be
lost. Then all comments can be there and one could work out a framework
how this could work - I like the different templates for filename an
interesting approach, which could even be used for backups (keep the
last three backups, named following the template provided).

Nice idea - but not that important.

So: Add it to the bug tracker as a feature request then it will not be lost.

Rainer

 
 Regards,
 
  Walter
 


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Re: A basic requested feature

[Richard Heck]

On 04/14/2011 05:03 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!)


See the other thread on how there are too many options already!

Richard

Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Sam Lewis
 wrote:
>> IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
>> LyX, and not block good ideas.
>
> Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
> functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it 
> needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.
>
... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the
stuff. :)
Liviu


> Cheers, Sam
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Stephan Witt]

Am 13.04.2011 um 17:22 schrieb Diego Queiroz:

> > I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their 
> > documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.
> 
> You get the point!
> And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing 
> filenames!
> The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also 
> want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
> Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as 
> "Chapter-5", "Appendix", etc). I dunno.
> There are lots of things to consider and this "basic requested feature" could 
> be improved to a "most wanted feature".

Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search your 
files, e. g. by content.
Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you quick 
answer to
arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, 
IMHO.
And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points of view, 
how this should work.

Stephan

Re: A basic requested feature

[Liviu Andronic]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz  wrote:
> Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
> As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
> should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
> And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
> the filename.
> An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).
>
The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
(Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to "my" naming
style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
different user habits.)

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
(such as LyX documents containing only ERT).

I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
Liviu



> If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
> field blank instead of "newfile"?
> The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
> Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
> all of them and hit "Save all".
> With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
> (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
> document.
> I bet I can't do the same if "newfile" or "Untitled" was the result.
> IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.
> ---
> Diego Queiroz
>
>
>
> 2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber 
>>
>>
>> Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
>> > Hey LyX developers!
>> >
>> > As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
>> > \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
>> > should be saved as.
>> >
>> > Do you agree?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
>> 0.02$ as a user.
>>
>> Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
>> title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
>> strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
>> Even some windows s> characters then by '?' or '_'.
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Hellmut
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Hellmut Weber         m...@hellmutweber.de
>> Degenfeldstraße 2         tel   +49-89-3081172
>> D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
>> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq
>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: A basic requested feature

[Walter van Holst]

On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
> Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
> your files, e. g. by content.
> Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
> quick answer to
> arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
> feature, IMHO.
> And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
> of view, how this should work.

It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.

I would find a name-suggester that would take:

The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
plus a version number

useful.

The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.

And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
styles.

Regards,

 Walter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

> maybe I'm a bit old fashioned (born in 1943 ;-). So I do not have
this terrible need to do everyzhing the fastest way possible.

I'm young (born in the 80's) and I confess I'm neurotic about automatization
(much over the normal). Sorry if I am too boring sometimes.
I enjoy to make the computer decide things for me, and I enjoy much more
when it make good decisions.
BTW, my reseach area is Artificial Intelligence, so how could I think
different? :-)

> ... and it needs someone interested and available to actually code the stuff.
:)

I'm very interested. I have tons of ideas, but I still have problems to set
up a confortable environment to start to code.
Another problem is that I'm still trying to understand some pieces of code,
so it will take some time for me to really contribute with some new feature.

> Proposing a filename is not such an importing feature, IMHO.

I agree.
But this thread subject isn't is "list of most important features", it is
just a feature request.
Now if it is important or not, its really another question...

> What is left is to determine a consistent behaviour that works in most
cases for most users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously
consistent
and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document.

You're probably right. But actually, we really do not know what works in
most cases for most users. We just guess it works for most users.
IMO, this could be a good feature to implement: get statistics of LyX usage
directly from users as other softwares already do (anonymous usage).
Maybe, it is early to think in a thing like this, but it is good to start to
think for the near future (and for god's sake, do not reply me with messages
like "I don't think this is the most important feature right now"... I know
I know, it is not, ok? :-) ).


Cheers,
---
Diego Queiroz


2011/4/14 Liviu Andronic 

> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM, Diego Queiroz 
> wrote:
> > Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
> > As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled,
> everything
> > should be fine. Believe on me. :-)
> > And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
> > the filename.
> > An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).
> >
> The LyX coding 'philosophy' is to assist users but in an un-intrusive
> manner. To rephrase, we don't intend to provide each and every
> disturbingly-helpful feature that MS Word and the ilk provide.
> (Personally I find title / first line file name suggestions are
> useless for me and provide overhead, since I will always want to
> delete that text to provide a file name that confirms to "my" naming
> style. The current 'newfile#.lyx' is always helpful when creating
> dummy documents for the ML. I do appreciate, however, that others have
> different user habits.)
>
> To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
> trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!) What is left is to
> determine a consistent behaviour that works in most cases for most
> users. The current behaviour ('newfile#.lyx') is obviously consistent
> and works flawlessly whatever the actual content of the document. The
> behaviour you suggest would require coding a contrived hack, which
> would take \title if available, otherwise first line (to which some
> expressed strong aversion and which I also find disturbing), if
> suggestion contains funny chars or delimiters (such as \n \t and the
> like) strip them (considering utf-8, how do you determine what is
> legal and what is not?), perhaps other difficult to foresee cases
> (such as LyX documents containing only ERT).
>
> I know that you will disagree, but I don't think that most users and
> developers would approve of such a hack in LyX. And I don't know who
> would want to code _and_ maintain it. Regards
> Liviu
>
>
>
> > If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the
> file
> > field blank instead of "newfile"?
> > The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.
> > Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something
> in
> > all of them and hit "Save all".
> > With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
> > (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
> > document.
> > I bet I can't do the same if "newfile" or "Untitled" was the result.
> > IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good
> ideas.
> > ---
> > Diego Queiroz
> >
> >
> >
> > 2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber 
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
> >> > Hey LyX developers!
> >> >
> >> > As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in
> the
> >> > \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the
> file
> >> > should be saved as.
> >> >
> >> > Do you agree?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> Although 

Re: A basic requested feature

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 14/04/11 11:36, Walter van Holst wrote:
> On Thu, April 14, 2011 10:43, Stephan Witt wrote:
>> Nowadays modern desktop systems are providing the capability to search
>> your files, e. g. by content.
>> Normally it is supported by indexing services, so it should give you
>> quick answer to
>> arbitrary questions. Proposing a filename is not such an importing
>> feature, IMHO.
>> And it is not easy to get it right. I' always expect different points
>> of view, how this should work.
> 
> It definitely is not easy to get 100% right, 80% would be interesting
> enough. I disagree on the desktop search bit, that is mostly helpful
> if you know a lot about the document you are looking for.
> 
> I would find a name-suggester that would take:
> 
> The current date, e.g. 20110414, an abbreviation of the style you are
> using, for example 'LTR' for letters and the subject of the document
> plus a version number
> 
> useful.
> 
> The most work is probably expanding the various document styles to
> include a field that refers to another field that is the most suitable
> source for the subject and an abbreviation scheme.
> 
> And this assumes of course that people rarely use their own document
> styles.

Interesting suggestion - bug I must agree, it is not an overly iportant
feature. But:

Put it as a feature request into the bug tracker - then it won't be
lost. Then all comments can be there and one could work out a framework
how this could work - I like the "different templates for filename" an
interesting approach, which could even be used for backups (keep the
last three backups, named following the template provided).

Nice idea - but not that important.

So: Add it to the bug tracker as a feature request then it will not be lost.

Rainer

> 
> Regards,
> 
>  Walter
> 


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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AtIAniMqGmBncDog5oRrXFC6vw/5Z+zw
=AeSS
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: A basic requested feature

[Richard Heck]

On 04/14/2011 05:03 AM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

To be clear, I don't think that LyX will ever care to provide such a
trivial option in the Prefs. (I hope it won't!)


See the other thread on how there are too many options already!

Richard

Re: A basic requested feature

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-13, Diego Queiroz wrote:

 Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
 all of them and hit Save all.
 With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
 (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
 document.
 I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.

You loose. LyX adds a number.

And for me, a bunch fo newfilen.lyx is easier to recognize as
wanting a proper filename or needs to be removed than any other
wild guess.

 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

But we need to avoid featuritis and sort the good from the not so
good ideas. If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on
what is important. Feel free to file an enhancement request at track
with a link to the thread.

Günter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

 Hey LyX developers!

 As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
 \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
 should be saved as.



In principle, I could live with proposing the title as the file name.
That sort of makes sense if you are used to create documents with
short meaningful titles. However, the titles in my case are usually 2
lines long and it's way too clumsy to use that as the file name.

I can see the use case here, but I don't know yet how I can prevent
from getting it annoy me by proposing file names that are way too
long.

I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I
imagine I will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then
I'd rather have newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give
them a proper name they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their
documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

Vincent

Re: A basic requested feature

[Sam Lewis]

 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
 LyX, and not block good ideas.

Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it needs 
to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

Cheers, Sam

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

 You loose. LyX adds a number.

It was just an example. If LyX adds an ID or not, it doesn't really matter.
There is no link between the number and the contents of the document.

 If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on what is
important.

You're right. But I'm not trying to convince this is the most important
feature. I am just telling this is a good feature.

 I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I imagine I
will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then I'd rather have
newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give them a proper name
they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

You're not the only one that write papers with very long titles (I also do
the same). But other softwares that suggest a filename (like MS Word) does
not have problems with this right? Of course LyX will need to handle these
things (limit the filename, remove illegal characters, and other things as
well). This is not a big concern.

You're right that sometimes we don't care to give good names for our files
just because they are to-be-removed files. But I'm sure you do care to open
various files to find something just because you decided to not give a
proper filename in the past.

 I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call
their documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

You get the point!
And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing
filenames!
The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also
want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as
Chapter-5, Appendix, etc). I dunno.
There are lots of things to consider and this basic requested feature
could be improved to a most wanted feature.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas
on functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

You're absolutely right.
Someone may suggest that we include an embedded SVG editor in LyX. Of course
it would be handy, but before implement it we need to talk if does make
sense, given the difficuties to implement. how important and desired the
feature is, if there alternatives, and so on.
However, we are not talking about an embedded SVG editor and nobody is
saying this feature should be implemented independent of the community
opinion. I am just trying to defend that this idea is good.


Regards,
---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/13 Sam Lewis stroboscopicallyconflu...@yahoo.co.uk

  IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
  LyX, and not block good ideas.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on
 functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
 needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

 Cheers, Sam

Re: A basic requested feature

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-13, Diego Queiroz wrote:

 Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
 all of them and hit Save all.
 With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
 (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
 document.
 I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.

You loose. LyX adds a number.

And for me, a bunch fo newfilen.lyx is easier to recognize as
wanting a proper filename or needs to be removed than any other
wild guess.

 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

But we need to avoid featuritis and sort the good from the not so
good ideas. If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on
what is important. Feel free to file an enhancement request at track
with a link to the thread.

Günter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

 Hey LyX developers!

 As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
 \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
 should be saved as.



In principle, I could live with proposing the title as the file name.
That sort of makes sense if you are used to create documents with
short meaningful titles. However, the titles in my case are usually 2
lines long and it's way too clumsy to use that as the file name.

I can see the use case here, but I don't know yet how I can prevent
from getting it annoy me by proposing file names that are way too
long.

I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I
imagine I will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then
I'd rather have newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give
them a proper name they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their
documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

Vincent

Re: A basic requested feature

[Sam Lewis]

 IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
 LyX, and not block good ideas.

Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it needs 
to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

Cheers, Sam

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

 You loose. LyX adds a number.

It was just an example. If LyX adds an ID or not, it doesn't really matter.
There is no link between the number and the contents of the document.

 If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on what is
important.

You're right. But I'm not trying to convince this is the most important
feature. I am just telling this is a good feature.

 I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I imagine I
will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then I'd rather have
newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give them a proper name
they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

You're not the only one that write papers with very long titles (I also do
the same). But other softwares that suggest a filename (like MS Word) does
not have problems with this right? Of course LyX will need to handle these
things (limit the filename, remove illegal characters, and other things as
well). This is not a big concern.

You're right that sometimes we don't care to give good names for our files
just because they are to-be-removed files. But I'm sure you do care to open
various files to find something just because you decided to not give a
proper filename in the past.

 I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call
their documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

You get the point!
And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing
filenames!
The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also
want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as
Chapter-5, Appendix, etc). I dunno.
There are lots of things to consider and this basic requested feature
could be improved to a most wanted feature.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas
on functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

You're absolutely right.
Someone may suggest that we include an embedded SVG editor in LyX. Of course
it would be handy, but before implement it we need to talk if does make
sense, given the difficuties to implement. how important and desired the
feature is, if there alternatives, and so on.
However, we are not talking about an embedded SVG editor and nobody is
saying this feature should be implemented independent of the community
opinion. I am just trying to defend that this idea is good.


Regards,
---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/13 Sam Lewis stroboscopicallyconflu...@yahoo.co.uk

  IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
  LyX, and not block good ideas.

 Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on
 functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
 needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

 Cheers, Sam

Re: A basic requested feature

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-13, Diego Queiroz wrote:

> Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
> all of them and hit "Save all".
> With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
> (based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
> document.
> I bet I can't do the same if "newfile" or "Untitled" was the result.

You loose. LyX adds a number.

And for me, a bunch fo newfile.lyx is easier to recognize as
"wanting a proper filename" or "needs to be removed" than any other
"wild" guess.

> IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

But we need to avoid "featuritis" and sort the good from the not so
good ideas. If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on
what is important. Feel free to file an enhancement request at track
with a link to the thread.

Günter

Re: A basic requested feature

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

>> Hey LyX developers!
>>
>> As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
>> \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
>> should be saved as.
>>


In principle, I could live with proposing the title as the file name.
That sort of makes sense if you are used to create documents with
short meaningful titles. However, the titles in my case are usually 2
lines long and it's way too clumsy to use that as the file name.

I can see the use case here, but I don't know yet how I can prevent
from getting it annoy me by proposing file names that are way too
long.

I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I
imagine I will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then
I'd rather have newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give
them a proper name they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call their
documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

Vincent

Re: A basic requested feature

[Sam Lewis]

> IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
> LyX, and not block good ideas.

Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on 
functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it needs 
to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

Cheers, Sam

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

> You loose. LyX adds a number.

It was just an example. If LyX adds an ID or not, it doesn't really matter.
There is no link between the number and the contents of the document.

> If not for complete rejection, so at least to priorize on what is
important.

You're right. But I'm not trying to convince this is the most important
feature. I am just telling this is a good feature.

> I absolutely do not want LyX to use the first line of the doc. I imagine I
will end up with tons of documents with nonsense names. Then I'd rather have
newfile1...newfile100. If I don't care enough to give them a proper name
they probably can be marked as to-be-removed.

You're not the only one that write papers with very long titles (I also do
the same). But other softwares that suggest a filename (like MS Word) does
not have problems with this right? Of course LyX will need to handle these
things (limit the filename, remove illegal characters, and other things as
well). This is not a big concern.

You're right that sometimes we don't care to give good names for our files
just because they are to-be-removed files. But I'm sure you do care to open
various files to find something just because you decided to not give a
proper filename in the past.

> I would encourage people to think a few seconds how to call
their documents. That will save some time in searching for them later on.

You get the point!
And how can LyX aid users to achieve this? Yes, you guessed right! Proposing
filenames!
The title is easy to get, but in a higher level of discussion we may also
want to discuss if the title/first sentence/etc is the better string to get.
Maybe some info based on the master document or the document structure? (as
"Chapter-5", "Appendix", etc). I dunno.
There are lots of things to consider and this "basic requested feature"
could be improved to a "most wanted feature".

> Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas
on functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.

You're absolutely right.
Someone may suggest that we include an embedded SVG editor in LyX. Of course
it would be handy, but before implement it we need to talk if does make
sense, given the difficuties to implement. how important and desired the
feature is, if there alternatives, and so on.
However, we are not talking about an embedded SVG editor and nobody is
saying this feature should be implemented independent of the community
opinion. I am just trying to defend that this idea is good.


Regards,
---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/13 Sam Lewis <stroboscopicallyconflu...@yahoo.co.uk>

> > IMO, we need to improve the functionality of
> > LyX, and not block good ideas.
>
> Of course everybody is welcome to make suggestions and put forward ideas on
> functionality. But it does not mean that everything gets implemented; it
> needs to be realistic and accepted by the community of users and developers.
>
> Cheers, Sam
>

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
should be fine. Believe on me. :-)

And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
the filename.
An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).

If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
field blank instead of newfile?
The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.

Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
all of them and hit Save all.
With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
(based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
document.
I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.

IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de



 Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
  Hey LyX developers!
 
  As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
  \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
  should be saved as.
 
  Do you agree?
 
  Thanks,
 
 Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
 0.02$ as a user.

 Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
 title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
 strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
 Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
 characters then by '?' or '_'.


 Best regards

 Hellmut


 --
 Dr. Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
 Degenfeldstraße 2 tel   +49-89-3081172
 D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
 please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
should be fine. Believe on me. :-)

And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
the filename.
An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).

If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
field blank instead of newfile?
The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.

Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
all of them and hit Save all.
With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
(based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
document.
I bet I can't do the same if newfile or Untitled was the result.

IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de



 Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
  Hey LyX developers!
 
  As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
  \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
  should be saved as.
 
  Do you agree?
 
  Thanks,
 
 Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
 0.02$ as a user.

 Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
 title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
 strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
 Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
 characters then by '?' or '_'.


 Best regards

 Hellmut


 --
 Dr. Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
 Degenfeldstraße 2 tel   +49-89-3081172
 D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
 please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Re: A basic requested feature

[Diego Queiroz]

Hellmut, this behavior is not a rule, right?
As a programmer I assure you: once things are correctly handled, everything
should be fine. Believe on me. :-)

And I repeat, it is just a guess for a name to the file, LyX won't impose
the filename.
An option to disable this feature is welcome (for those who dislikes).

If a guess for the filename wasn't necessary, why LyX doesn't leave the file
field blank instead of "newfile"?
The answer is: because this feature improves the software usability.

Just as an stupid example, suppose I create 10 new files, type something in
all of them and hit "Save all".
With this feature, I will be able to determine a good name for each file
(based on the first sentence, or anything else) without navigate to each
document.
I bet I can't do the same if "newfile" or "Untitled" was the result.

IMO, we need to improve the functionality of LyX, and not block good ideas.

---
Diego Queiroz



2011/4/9 Hellmut Weber 

>
>
> Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
> > Hey LyX developers!
> >
> > As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
> > \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
> > should be saved as.
> >
> > Do you agree?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
> 0.02$ as a user.
>
> Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
> title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
> strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
> Even some windows s characters then by '?' or '_'.
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Hellmut
>
>
> --
> Dr. Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
> Degenfeldstraße 2 tel   +49-89-3081172
> D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
> please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq
>

Re: A basic requested feature

[Hellmut Weber]

Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
 Hey LyX developers!
 
 As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
 \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
 should be saved as.
 
 Do you agree?
 
 Thanks,
 
Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
0.02$ as a user.

Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
characters then by '?' or '_'.


Best regards

Hellmut


-- 
Dr. Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
Degenfeldstraße 2 tel   +49-89-3081172
D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Re: A basic requested feature

[Hellmut Weber]

Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
 Hey LyX developers!
 
 As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
 \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
 should be saved as.
 
 Do you agree?
 
 Thanks,
 
Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
0.02$ as a user.

Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
Even some windows systems do substitute someof these 'strange'
characters then by '?' or '_'.


Best regards

Hellmut


-- 
Dr. Hellmut Weber m...@hellmutweber.de
Degenfeldstraße 2 tel   +49-89-3081172
D-80803 München-Schwabing mobil +49-172-8450321
please: No DOCs, no PPTs. why: tinyurl.com/cbgq

Re: A basic requested feature

[Hellmut Weber]

Am 08.04.2011 18:37, schrieb Inon Sharony:
> Hey LyX developers!
> 
> As in MS (boo!) Office, when saving a new file, whatever appears in the
> \title section should automatically be guessed as the name that the file
> should be saved as.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
Although you addressed the developpers I would like to contribute my
0.02$ as a user.

Please do not copy the idiocy of M$ Word to create file names using the
title or (much worse) the first phrase. This leads in many casesto
strings which contain blanks or even strnage utf-8 characters.
Even some windows s