Re: Edit complete source?
On 7.12.07, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Richard Heck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > bigblop wrote: > >> > > Yes, that's right. What people call "round-trip" source view doesn't > > yet exist, though many people would like to see it. > > We can import LaTeX using tex2lyx. But the problem is that, at the > > moment, tex2lyx isn't really integrated into LyX; it's a standalone > > utility. And even if it were integrated into LyX, tex2lyx isn't always > > terribly reliable. Those, as I understand things, are the main issues. Whether standalone script or not, does not necessarily matter. The problem is whether it is possible to have a loss-less lyx->latex->lyx conversion. Theory: is it possible to have a deterministic and loss-less round trip or will there always be some guessing and loss of information? Praxis: is it feasible to assume that latex export and import can be made so stable that repeated round-trips will never corrupt your document? > The main issue as I see it is that some people have the hope that writing > raw latex will allow them to get almost native support for things that > LyX does not support yet. I agree that latex source editing will not extend the set of things with native LyX support and can lead to increase of ERT at the expense of doing things "the LyX way". > I'd like to hear about reasonable use cases. Writing ERT in context: LaTeX gurus might add some special LaTeX formatting or commands requiring ERT spead at different places (e.g. a closing } somewhere after som non-ERT text. Doing this in a LaTeX-adapted text editor (with syntax highlight, auto indent and blinking of matching brackets) might facilitate this task. Opening the latex-source view while inserting ERT is an approximation to this experience of "best of two worlds". Advanced editing: * Search and replace in LyX objects (boxes), e.g. math, labels, box type, or filenames of included graphics. * Search and replace with regular expressions. Currently I work on the *.lyx source for this purposes. Editing the latex source has some advantages: * LaTeX source format is documented, LyX source format not. * LaTeX source is (IMO) better readable (designed for work on the source, while the LyX format is not meant to be seen directly by the user) * The LaTeX format is better known so the "only change this if you know what you are doing" threshold is lower. However, there are disadvantages: * Conversion from lyx to tex and back again takes time * and is not always stable nor sure to be loss-less (I acknowledge the vast improvements since the times of reLyX). Thanks Günter
Re: Edit complete source?
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Richard Heck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: bigblop wrote: But that does not work in the "LaTeX source" area. Only in the LyX editor. Yes, that's right. What people call "round-trip" source view doesn't yet exist, though many people would like to see it. It's possible it'll be implemented before too long, but there are non-trivial obstacles to be overcome before then. In a way, all the pieces exist: We can import LaTeX using tex2lyx. But the problem is that, at the moment, tex2lyx isn't really integrated into LyX; it's a standalone utility. And even if it were integrated into LyX, tex2lyx isn't always terribly reliable. Those, as I understand things, are the main issues. The main issue as I see it is that some people have the hope that writing raw latex will allow them to get almost native support for things that LyX does not support yet. If one does not like the kind of code that LyX outputs, I do not see how it could be possible to modify it and hop that LyX will stick to this new form of writing. I'd like to hear about reasonable use cases. One possible example: I had a document in which I wanted an equation array with non-default column alignments. I could not find any way to do this in LyX (which might just mean I missed something obvious -- but I posted the question here and got no responses). So I exported a LaTeX file and edited it outside LyX. That's fine, but suppose that I want to modify the document (in LyX) in the future while retaining that change. I don't need LyX to display the equation array with the tweaked alignment, but I do want to be able to use LyX's math editing features on it (meaning that I do not want to convert it to ERT), and I'm not sure whether importing the LaTeX file will preserve the change and still produce a math inset v. ERT (I have not tried this). This is probably not exactly what the original requester had in mind, but it might be an application of a round-trip edit feature. /Paul
Re: Edit complete source?
> I'd like to hear about reasonable use cases. It would be nice to have this dual-editing feature but I frankly do not see any usefulness of it. Lyx' output is better than latex, but not really WYSIWYG. If something can not be done in lyx and has to be entered by ERT, the source editing mode will not help. If people would like to have WYSIWYG, please try Bakoma, it allows you to edit latex source code, and its DVI output. It is great for small articles, especially for presentations. The biggest problem is that you will have to input plain latex code most of the time. Bo
Re: Edit complete source?
Richard Heck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > bigblop wrote: >> But that does not work in the "LaTeX source" area. Only in the LyX editor. >> > Yes, that's right. What people call "round-trip" source view doesn't > yet exist, though many people would like to see it. It's possible > it'll be implemented before too long, but there are non-trivial > obstacles to be overcome before then. In a way, all the pieces exist: > We can import LaTeX using tex2lyx. But the problem is that, at the > moment, tex2lyx isn't really integrated into LyX; it's a standalone > utility. And even if it were integrated into LyX, tex2lyx isn't always > terribly reliable. Those, as I understand things, are the main issues. The main issue as I see it is that some people have the hope that writing raw latex will allow them to get almost native support for things that LyX does not support yet. If one does not like the kind of code that LyX outputs, I do not see how it could be possible to modify it and hop that LyX will stick to this new form of writing. I'd like to hear about reasonable use cases. JMarc
Re: Edit complete source?
bigblop wrote: But that does not work in the "LaTeX source" area. Only in the LyX editor. Yes, that's right. What people call "round-trip" source view doesn't yet exist, though many people would like to see it. It's possible it'll be implemented before too long, but there are non-trivial obstacles to be overcome before then. In a way, all the pieces exist: We can import LaTeX using tex2lyx. But the problem is that, at the moment, tex2lyx isn't really integrated into LyX; it's a standalone utility. And even if it were integrated into LyX, tex2lyx isn't always terribly reliable. Those, as I understand things, are the main issues. Richard Helge Hafting wrote: bigblop wrote: I have choosen to view the complete source, but is there someway to edit in the source directly? Currently is a read-only preview. Click the TeX icon and you can write any latex code you want. Note that the source view isn't really "source", what you see is the latex code LyX will export if you print. Helge Hafting
Re: Edit complete source?
But that does not work in the "LaTeX source" area. Only in the LyX editor. Helge Hafting wrote: > > bigblop wrote: >> I have choosen to view the complete source, but is there someway to edit >> in >> the source directly? Currently is a read-only preview. >> > Click the TeX icon and you can write any latex code you want. > Note that the source view isn't really "source", what you see > is the latex code LyX will export if you print. > > Helge Hafting > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Edit-complete-source--tf4952441.html#a14210822 Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Edit complete source?
bigblop wrote: I have choosen to view the complete source, but is there someway to edit in the source directly? Currently is a read-only preview. Click the TeX icon and you can write any latex code you want. Note that the source view isn't really "source", what you see is the latex code LyX will export if you print. Helge Hafting
Re: Edit complete source?
bigblop wrote: > > I have chosen to view the complete source, but is there someway to edit in > the source directly? Currently is a read-only preview. > According to the developers, this is one of the most requested features of LyX, but it's tough to implement. The query arises often on this list. Check out a very recent thread here: http://www.nabble.com/Live-Latex-Editing-tf4867351.html You can always export the plain LaTeX and edit that in your favorite text editor, then run LaTeX to generate the final product. You can set up a specific editor as the Viewer for the plain LaTeX as well, which might save a step or two (but does not allow code editing within LyX per se). - David Hewitt Virginia Institute of Marine Science http://www.vims.edu/fish/students/dhewitt/ -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Edit-complete-source--tf4952441.html#a14181373 Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Edit complete source?
I have choosen to view the complete source, but is there someway to edit in the source directly? Currently is a read-only preview. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Edit-complete-source--tf4952441.html#a14181160 Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
