Re: Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Cuyahoga Falls]

If you want to really get sucked in and obsessed, check our Robert 
Bringhurst's book, Elements of Typographic Style.


Virgil


On 10/23/2020 12:00 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2020, Virgil Arrington wrote:


For what it's worth, Palatino was designed in such a way that it doesn't
need "f" ligatures. Ligatures are used because the "f" clashes with the
next letter. When Hermann Zapf designed Palatino, he designed the "f" in
such a way that it doesn't clash into following letters; hence the "f"
ligature isn't needed. This appears to be true as well of the various
Palatino clones out there, such as Tex Gyre Pagella, URW Palladio, Book
Antiqua, etc.


Virgil,

Thanks for the typography lesson. I read a couple of books on typography
about 25 years ago when I started using LaTeX/LyX for writing that leaves
the office. Palatino is my default typeface and I never noticed the 
lack of

"f" ligatures, only how attractive and easy to read it is.

Stay well,

Rich


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Re: Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 23 Oct 2020, Virgil Arrington wrote:


For what it's worth, Palatino was designed in such a way that it doesn't
need "f" ligatures. Ligatures are used because the "f" clashes with the
next letter. When Hermann Zapf designed Palatino, he designed the "f" in
such a way that it doesn't clash into following letters; hence the "f"
ligature isn't needed. This appears to be true as well of the various
Palatino clones out there, such as Tex Gyre Pagella, URW Palladio, Book
Antiqua, etc.


Virgil,

Thanks for the typography lesson. I read a couple of books on typography
about 25 years ago when I started using LaTeX/LyX for writing that leaves
the office. Palatino is my default typeface and I never noticed the lack of
"f" ligatures, only how attractive and easy to read it is.

Stay well,

Rich

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Re: Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Virgil Arrington]

For what it's worth, Palatino was designed in such a way that it doesn't 
need "f" ligatures. Ligatures are used because the "f" clashes with the 
next letter. When Hermann Zapf designed Palatino, he designed the "f" in 
such a way that it doesn't clash into following letters; hence the "f" 
ligature isn't needed. This appears to be true as well of the various 
Palatino clones out there, such as Tex Gyre Pagella, URW Palladio, Book 
Antiqua, etc.


I know that may not be a satisfactory answer when you really want the 
ligatures. However, LyX and LaTeX provide beautiful ligatures with other 
typefaces. One of my favorites is Libertine. It has the same basic 
letter shapes as Times Roman but is not nearly as condensed making it 
much more readable and very usable for a wide range of applications. It 
also has true small caps and old style numbering and a companion sans 
serif font in Biolinum. Libertine doesn't seem to have as much character 
as Palatino, but then, that is another plus as readers aren't busy 
noticing the font.


There is also a version that works very well with LibreOffice known as 
Linux Libertine G. (Don't let the "Linux" in its name fool you; it works 
on Windows as well.)


http://www.numbertext.org/linux/

Virgil


On 10/23/20 2:33 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:

Andreas,

this is a (LaTeX) font issue.  The previewer used has nothing to do with
it.

And not even unknown :-)-O

http://google.com/search?q=latex+palatino+ligatures

So you may have to select another font.  As Kornel wrote, DejVu which I
don't have installed.  Interestingly Tex Gyre's Pagella also doesn't
have ligatures.

I like Noto and it has the ligatures :-)-O


The example, by the way is not a MWE, it had tons of Settings, Modules
and the like...

el




On 2020-10-22 19:47 , Andreas Plihal wrote:

Dear JMarc,

I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there
are no ligatures, no matter if I use


   * Adobe Acrobat Reader
   * GIMP
   * Firefox
   * Edge
   * Chrome
   * ...

Cheers
Andreas

[...]


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Re: Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Shay Riggs]

Hi Andreas et al,

A possible workaround, should you be looking for one, is to choose “Use
non-TeX fonts (via XeTeX/LuaTeX)” in document settings, and choose your
particular Palatino font variant from the Roman menu.

The default compiler appears to be XeTeX, but you can choose either “PDF
(LuaTeX)” or “PDF (XeTeX)” from Document Settings > Formats section should
you have a preference.

Beware that you lose some speed as these engines can be a little slower if
you’re using OpenType fonts.

Also, even though I’m pretty sure that Koma works fine with modern engines,
beware that I haven’t tested this beyond your MWE so YMMV :-)

Cheers
Shay

On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 07:33, Dr Eberhard W Lisse  wrote:

>
> Andreas,
>
> this is a (LaTeX) font issue.  The previewer used has nothing to do with
> it.
>
> And not even unknown :-)-O
>
> http://google.com/search?q=latex+palatino+ligatures
>
> So you may have to select another font.  As Kornel wrote, DejVu which I
> don't have installed.  Interestingly Tex Gyre's Pagella also doesn't
> have ligatures.
>
> I like Noto and it has the ligatures :-)-O
>
>
> The example, by the way is not a MWE, it had tons of Settings, Modules
> and the like...
>
> el
>
>
>
>
> On 2020-10-22 19:47 , Andreas Plihal wrote:
> > Dear JMarc,
> >
> > I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there
> > are no ligatures, no matter if I use
> >
> >
> >   * Adobe Acrobat Reader
> >   * GIMP
> >   * Firefox
> >   * Edge
> >   * Chrome
> >   * ...
> >
> > Cheers
> > Andreas
> [...]
>
> --
> lyx-users mailing list
> lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
> http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-users
>


Test_Ligaturen.lyx
Description: application/lyx
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Re: Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Dr Eberhard W Lisse]

Andreas,

this is a (LaTeX) font issue.  The previewer used has nothing to do with
it.

And not even unknown :-)-O

http://google.com/search?q=latex+palatino+ligatures

So you may have to select another font.  As Kornel wrote, DejVu which I
don't have installed.  Interestingly Tex Gyre's Pagella also doesn't
have ligatures.

I like Noto and it has the ligatures :-)-O


The example, by the way is not a MWE, it had tons of Settings, Modules
and the like...

el




On 2020-10-22 19:47 , Andreas Plihal wrote:
> Dear JMarc,
>
> I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there
> are no ligatures, no matter if I use
>
>
>   * Adobe Acrobat Reader
>   * GIMP
>   * Firefox
>   * Edge
>   * Chrome
>   * ...
>
> Cheers
> Andreas
[...]

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Re: Ligatures in the text

[Paul A. Rubin]

On 10/22/20 1:59 PM, Kornel Benko wrote:

Am Thu, 22 Oct 2020 19:47:41 +0200
schrieb Andreas Plihal :


Dear JMarc,
  
I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there are no

ligatures, no matter if I use
• Adobe Acrobat Reader
• GIMP
• Firefox
• Edge
• Chrome
• ...
Cheers
Andreas
  
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2020 um 12:56 Uhr

Von: "Jean-Marc Lasgouttes" 
An: "Andreas Plihal" , lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Betreff: Re: Ligatures in the text
Le 21/10/2020 à 17:54, Andreas Plihal a écrit :

Dear community,
I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and
want create ligatures. The LyX-documentation says:

Dear Andreas,

If you are talking about the basic ff, fi, etc. ligatures, I am
surprised that you do not get them automatically. If so, could you send
a short example file that shows the issue?

For more complicated font-related, as Rich said, it is necessary to use
some explicit LaTeX commands.

JMarc


/It is a typesetting practice to contract certain letters and print them
like one. /
/These combinations are called ligatures. Since LaTeX knows ligatures,
your documents written with LyX will have them too. /
My document has it not!
/Here are the possible ligatures ... But sometimes you don't want
ligatures in a word .../
And then it is explained the contrary: how to prevent ligatures in the text.
Please, could you help me in that case?
Cheers
Andreas

  


Setting the font to DejaVu (instead of Palatino) shows the ligatures.

Kornel

Same with changing to "default" font. Apparently there is a problem with 
the way ligatures look in Palatino.


https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/94399/can-ligatures-be-enabled-for-palatino-and-pdflatex

Paul


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Re: Ligatures in the text

[Kornel Benko]

Am Thu, 22 Oct 2020 19:47:41 +0200
schrieb Andreas Plihal :

> Dear JMarc,
>  
> I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there are no
> ligatures, no matter if I use 
> • Adobe Acrobat Reader
> • GIMP
> • Firefox
> • Edge
> • Chrome
> • ...
> Cheers
> Andreas
>  
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2020 um 12:56 Uhr
> Von: "Jean-Marc Lasgouttes" 
> An: "Andreas Plihal" , lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
> Betreff: Re: Ligatures in the text
> Le 21/10/2020 à 17:54, Andreas Plihal a écrit :
> > Dear community,
> > I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and
> > want create ligatures. The LyX-documentation says:
> 
> Dear Andreas,
> 
> If you are talking about the basic ff, fi, etc. ligatures, I am
> surprised that you do not get them automatically. If so, could you send
> a short example file that shows the issue?
> 
> For more complicated font-related, as Rich said, it is necessary to use
> some explicit LaTeX commands.
> 
> JMarc
> 
> > /It is a typesetting practice to contract certain letters and print them
> > like one. /
> > /These combinations are called ligatures. Since LaTeX knows ligatures,
> > your documents written with LyX will have them too. /
> > My document has it not!
> > /Here are the possible ligatures ... But sometimes you don't want
> > ligatures in a word .../
> > And then it is explained the contrary: how to prevent ligatures in the text.
> > Please, could you help me in that case?
> > Cheers
> > Andreas
> >
>  
> 

Setting the font to DejaVu (instead of Palatino) shows the ligatures.

Kornel


pgpqwlmbdwOre.pgp
Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP
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Aw: Re: Ligatures in the text

[Andreas Plihal]

Dear JMarc,

 


I was quite suprised too. I have enclosed this mail a MWE: I see there are no ligatures, no matter if I use

 


	Adobe Acrobat Reader
	GIMP
	Firefox
	Edge
	Chrome
	...


Cheers

Andreas
 

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Oktober 2020 um 12:56 Uhr
Von: "Jean-Marc Lasgouttes" 
An: "Andreas Plihal" , lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Betreff: Re: Ligatures in the text

Le 21/10/2020 à 17:54, Andreas Plihal a écrit :
> Dear community,
> I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and
> want create ligatures. The LyX-documentation says:

Dear Andreas,

If you are talking about the basic ff, fi, etc. ligatures, I am
surprised that you do not get them automatically. If so, could you send
a short example file that shows the issue?

For more complicated font-related, as Rich said, it is necessary to use
some explicit LaTeX commands.

JMarc

> /It is a typesetting practice to contract certain letters and print them
> like one. /
> /These combinations are called ligatures. Since LaTeX knows ligatures,
> your documents written with LyX will have them too. /
> My document has it not!
> /Here are the possible ligatures ... But sometimes you don't want
> ligatures in a word .../
> And then it is explained the contrary: how to prevent ligatures in the text.
> Please, could you help me in that case?
> Cheers
> Andreas
>
 





Test_Ligaturen.lyx
Description: application/lyx


Test_Ligaturen.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


Test_Ligaturen.tex
Description: TeX document
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Re: Ligatures in the text

[Rich Shepard]

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:


If you are talking about the basic ff, fi, etc. ligatures, I am surprised
that you do not get them automatically. If so, could you send a short
example file that shows the issue?


JMarc,

The URL I posted mentions that automatic ligatures depend on the typeface
being used and one answer pointed to a method to check what's available.

I overlooked that point when I mentioned using LaTeX and didn't realize it
until I read my posted reply.

Stay well all,

Rich
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Re: Ligatures in the text

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 21/10/2020 à 17:54, Andreas Plihal a écrit :

Dear community,
I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and 
want create ligatures. The LyX-documentation says:


Dear Andreas,

If you are talking about the basic ff, fi, etc. ligatures, I am 
surprised that you do not get them automatically. If so, could you send 
a short example file that shows the issue?


For more complicated font-related, as Rich said, it is necessary to use 
some explicit LaTeX commands.


JMarc

/It is a typesetting practice to contract certain letters and print them 
like one. /
/These combinations are called ligatures. Since LaTeX knows ligatures, 
your documents written with LyX will have them too. /

My document has it not!
/Here are the possible ligatures ... But sometimes you don't want 
ligatures in a word .../

And then it is explained the contrary: how to prevent ligatures in the text.
Please, could you help me in that case?
Cheers
Andreas



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Re: Ligatures in the text

[Rich Shepard]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020, Andreas Plihal wrote:


I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and want 
create ligatures.
The LyX-documentation says:

...  

My document has it not!


Andreas,
  
You need to add them yourself using LaTeX (i.e, the ERT box). There are
several threads on stackexchange about LaTeX ligatures. You can start here
 and follow the threads in which you're
interested.

HTH,

Rich
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Ligatures in the text

[Andreas Plihal]

Dear community,

 

I'm producing a KOMA-script-book with LyX (V 2.3.5.2, on Windows 10) and want create ligatures. The LyX-documentation says:

 

It is a typesetting practice to contract certain letters and print them like one. 

These combinations are called ligatures. Since LaTeX knows ligatures, your documents written with LyX will have them too. 

 

My document has it not!

 

Here are the possible ligatures ...  But sometimes you don't want ligatures in a word ...

 

And then it is explained the contrary: how to prevent ligatures in the text.

 

Please, could you help me in that case?

 

Cheers

Andreas
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