Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Rob Oakes wrote:
 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting 
 several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely,

i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
pavel


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:09:27 +0200
Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:

 Rob Oakes wrote:
  Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a
  mostly functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how
  to research, write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll
  also be highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX,
  Mendely,
 
 i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
 pavel

First *I* hear of it. A short recap?


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér wrote:
  i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
  pavel
 
 First *I* hear of it. A short recap?

LyX integration plugin for Zotero

pavel


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Rob Oakes wrote:
 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting 
 several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely,

i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
pavel


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:09:27 +0200
Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:

 Rob Oakes wrote:
  Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a
  mostly functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how
  to research, write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll
  also be highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX,
  Mendely,
 
 i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
 pavel

First *I* hear of it. A short recap?


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér wrote:
  i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
  pavel
 
 First *I* hear of it. A short recap?

LyX integration plugin for Zotero

pavel


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Rob Oakes wrote:
> Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
> functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
> write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting 
> several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely,

i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
pavel


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:09:27 +0200
Pavel Sanda  wrote:

> Rob Oakes wrote:
> > Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a
> > mostly functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how
> > to research, write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll
> > also be highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX,
> > Mendely,
> 
> i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
> pavel

First *I* hear of it. A short recap?


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-19 Thread Pavel Sanda
Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér wrote:
> > i suppose you know about LyZ, right?
> > pavel
> 
> First *I* hear of it. A short recap?

LyX integration plugin for Zotero

pavel


Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Rob Oakes

 Dear LyX Users,

This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.

Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users 
Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock 
Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)


It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.

Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be 
highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, 
Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.


If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please 
come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.


/End Shameless Self Promotion

Cheers,

Rob


Warnock Engineering Building
72 South Central Campus Drive
Salt Lake City

*From Downtown*

  1. _Drive East on 400 South:_  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
 will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you
 are on top of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until
 you come to the 1300 East intersection.
  2. _Turn left on 1300 East:_  You will now be facing North.  Continue
 driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South
 intersection.
  3. _Turn right on 100 South_ (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
 facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up
 the hill, 100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at
 which point it's name changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it
 will make a large sweeping turn to the right (East).  Continue
 following North Camus Drive until you come to Central Campus Drive.
  4. _Turn right on Central Campus Drive:_  You will now be facing
 South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you
 come to the intersection with the street named Federal Way.
  5. _The Warnock Engineering Building_ (WEB) is located off the South
 West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and
 Federal Way.


*Parking
*

There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 
7:00 pm is unofficially considered after hours by the attendants  With 
that said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, 
and can magically detect the presence of violators.


(Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had 
to drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five 
minutes.  By the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and 
the ticket was on my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the 
purchase of a parking day pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it 
shouldn't be necessary.





Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Litt
On Wednesday 18 August 2010 16:45:30 Rob Oakes wrote:

 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be
 highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX,
 Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.
 
 If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
 come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.
 
 /End Shameless Self Promotion

Rob,

I'm 1500 miles away. Will there be a video?

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:45:30 -0600
Rob Oakes rob.oa...@oak-tree.us wrote:

   Dear LyX Users,
 
 This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.
 
 Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux
 Users Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the
 Warnock Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)

Sounds like an interesting presentation. Good luck, good to see people
spreading the word.

-mjjzf


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread James C. Sutherland
Rob,

You didn't mention a DATE for the event...

By the way, if you are mentioning Mendeley, I know that they have
promotional event support (e.g. handouts, free pizza, etc).  It may be worth
contacting them if you are interested in pursuing that.

James


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Rob Oakes rob.oa...@oak-tree.us wrote:

  Dear LyX Users,

 This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.

 Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users
 Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock
 Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)

 It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.

 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting
 several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, Inkscape and
 Scribus) and describing how they work together.

 If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
 come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.

 /End Shameless Self Promotion

 Cheers,

 Rob


 Warnock Engineering Building
 72 South Central Campus Drive
 Salt Lake City

 *From Downtown*

1. *Drive East on 400 South:*  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you are on 
 top
of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until you come to the 1300
East intersection.

2. *Turn left on 1300 East:*  You will now be facing North.  Continue
driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South intersection.

3. *Turn right on 100 South* (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up the hill,
100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at which point it's name
changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it will make a large sweeping turn 
 to
the right (East).  Continue following North Camus Drive until you come to
Central Campus Drive.

4. *Turn right on Central Campus Drive:*  You will now be facing
South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you come to 
 the
intersection with the street named Federal Way.

5. *The Warnock Engineering Building* (WEB) is located off the South
West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and Federal Way.


 *Parking
 *

 There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 7:00
 pm is unofficially considered after hours by the attendants  With that
 said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, and can
 magically detect the presence of violators.

 (Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had to
 drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five minutes.  By
 the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and the ticket was on
 my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the purchase of a parking day
 pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it shouldn't be necessary.





Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Rob Oakes

 Dear LyX Users,

This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.

Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users 
Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock 
Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)


It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.

Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be 
highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, 
Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.


If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please 
come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.


/End Shameless Self Promotion

Cheers,

Rob


Warnock Engineering Building
72 South Central Campus Drive
Salt Lake City

*From Downtown*

  1. _Drive East on 400 South:_  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
 will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you
 are on top of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until
 you come to the 1300 East intersection.
  2. _Turn left on 1300 East:_  You will now be facing North.  Continue
 driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South
 intersection.
  3. _Turn right on 100 South_ (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
 facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up
 the hill, 100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at
 which point it's name changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it
 will make a large sweeping turn to the right (East).  Continue
 following North Camus Drive until you come to Central Campus Drive.
  4. _Turn right on Central Campus Drive:_  You will now be facing
 South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you
 come to the intersection with the street named Federal Way.
  5. _The Warnock Engineering Building_ (WEB) is located off the South
 West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and
 Federal Way.


*Parking
*

There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 
7:00 pm is unofficially considered after hours by the attendants  With 
that said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, 
and can magically detect the presence of violators.


(Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had 
to drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five 
minutes.  By the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and 
the ticket was on my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the 
purchase of a parking day pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it 
shouldn't be necessary.





Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Litt
On Wednesday 18 August 2010 16:45:30 Rob Oakes wrote:

 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be
 highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX,
 Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.
 
 If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
 come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.
 
 /End Shameless Self Promotion

Rob,

I'm 1500 miles away. Will there be a video?

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:45:30 -0600
Rob Oakes rob.oa...@oak-tree.us wrote:

   Dear LyX Users,
 
 This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.
 
 Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux
 Users Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the
 Warnock Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)

Sounds like an interesting presentation. Good luck, good to see people
spreading the word.

-mjjzf


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread James C. Sutherland
Rob,

You didn't mention a DATE for the event...

By the way, if you are mentioning Mendeley, I know that they have
promotional event support (e.g. handouts, free pizza, etc).  It may be worth
contacting them if you are interested in pursuing that.

James


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Rob Oakes rob.oa...@oak-tree.us wrote:

  Dear LyX Users,

 This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.

 Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users
 Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock
 Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)

 It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.

 Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
 functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
 write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting
 several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, Inkscape and
 Scribus) and describing how they work together.

 If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
 come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.

 /End Shameless Self Promotion

 Cheers,

 Rob


 Warnock Engineering Building
 72 South Central Campus Drive
 Salt Lake City

 *From Downtown*

1. *Drive East on 400 South:*  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you are on 
 top
of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until you come to the 1300
East intersection.

2. *Turn left on 1300 East:*  You will now be facing North.  Continue
driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South intersection.

3. *Turn right on 100 South* (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up the hill,
100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at which point it's name
changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it will make a large sweeping turn 
 to
the right (East).  Continue following North Camus Drive until you come to
Central Campus Drive.

4. *Turn right on Central Campus Drive:*  You will now be facing
South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you come to 
 the
intersection with the street named Federal Way.

5. *The Warnock Engineering Building* (WEB) is located off the South
West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and Federal Way.


 *Parking
 *

 There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 7:00
 pm is unofficially considered after hours by the attendants  With that
 said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, and can
 magically detect the presence of violators.

 (Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had to
 drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five minutes.  By
 the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and the ticket was on
 my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the purchase of a parking day
 pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it shouldn't be necessary.





Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Rob Oakes

 Dear LyX Users,

This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.

Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users 
Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock 
Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)


It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.

Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly 
functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research, 
write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be 
highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, 
Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.


If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please 
come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.


/End Shameless Self Promotion

Cheers,

Rob


Warnock Engineering Building
72 South Central Campus Drive
Salt Lake City

*From Downtown*

  1. _Drive East on 400 South:_  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
 will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you
 are on top of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until
 you come to the 1300 East intersection.
  2. _Turn left on 1300 East:_  You will now be facing North.  Continue
 driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South
 intersection.
  3. _Turn right on 100 South_ (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
 facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up
 the hill, 100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at
 which point it's name changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it
 will make a large sweeping turn to the right (East).  Continue
 following North Camus Drive until you come to Central Campus Drive.
  4. _Turn right on Central Campus Drive:_  You will now be facing
 South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you
 come to the intersection with the street named Federal Way.
  5. _The Warnock Engineering Building_ (WEB) is located off the South
 West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and
 Federal Way.


*Parking
*

There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 
7:00 pm is unofficially considered "after hours" by the attendants  With 
that said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, 
and can magically detect the presence of violators.


(Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had 
to drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five 
minutes.  By the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and 
the ticket was on my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the 
purchase of a parking day pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it 
shouldn't be necessary.





Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Litt
On Wednesday 18 August 2010 16:45:30 Rob Oakes wrote:

> Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
> functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
> write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be
> highlighting several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX,
> Inkscape and Scribus) and describing how they work together.
> 
> If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
> come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.
> 
> /End Shameless Self Promotion

Rob,

I'm 1500 miles away. Will there be a video?

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 14:45:30 -0600
Rob Oakes  wrote:

>   Dear LyX Users,
> 
> This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.
> 
> Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux
> Users Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the
> Warnock Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)

Sounds like an interesting presentation. Good luck, good to see people
spreading the word.

-mjjzf


Re: Pure Promotion - LyX Talk at University of Utah

2010-08-18 Thread James C. Sutherland
Rob,

You didn't mention a DATE for the event...

By the way, if you are mentioning Mendeley, I know that they have
promotional event support (e.g. handouts, free pizza, etc).  It may be worth
contacting them if you are interested in pursuing that.

James


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Rob Oakes  wrote:

>  Dear LyX Users,
>
> This is a pure piece of personal promotion, but ... here goes.
>
> Tonight, I will be giving a talk about LyX to the Salt Lake Linux Users
> Group.  The meeting will be at the University of Utah in the Warnock
> Engineering building.  (See below for directions.)
>
> It will start at just after 7:00 pm.  Free admission.
>
> Though it will focus heavily on LyX (I'm even going to demo a mostly
> functioning LyX-Outline), the talk will also deal with how to research,
> write, and publish using Linux.  For that reason, I'll also be highlighting
> several other programs (Zotero, BibTeX, Mendely, LaTeX, Inkscape and
> Scribus) and describing how they work together.
>
> If this interests you at all, and you are in the Salt Lake area, please
> come.  It would be wonderful to put faces to email addresses.
>
> /End Shameless Self Promotion
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
>
> Warnock Engineering Building
> 72 South Central Campus Drive
> Salt Lake City
>
> *From Downtown*
>
>1. *Drive East on 400 South:*  As you reach the foothills, 400 South
>will curve so that it's name changes to 500 South by the time you are on 
> top
>of the hill.  Continue driving East on 500 South until you come to the 1300
>East intersection.
>
>2. *Turn left on 1300 East:*  You will now be facing North.  Continue
>driving North on 1300 East until you come to the 100 South intersection.
>
>3. *Turn right on 100 South* (North Campus Drive):  You will now be
>facing East.  Continue driving East on 100 South.  As you go up the hill,
>100 South will abruptly turn to the left (North), at which point it's name
>changes to North Campus Drive.  Later, it will make a large sweeping turn 
> to
>the right (East).  Continue following North Camus Drive until you come to
>Central Campus Drive.
>
>4. *Turn right on Central Campus Drive:*  You will now be facing
>South.  Continue driving South on Central Campus Drive until you come to 
> the
>intersection with the street named Federal Way.
>
>5. *The Warnock Engineering Building* (WEB) is located off the South
>West corner of the intersection of Central Campus Drive and Federal Way.
>
>
> *Parking
> *
>
> There is ample parking in three lots adjacent to WEB.  Additionally, 7:00
> pm is unofficially considered "after hours" by the attendants  With that
> said, the University of Utah parking trolls are evil, aggressive, and can
> magically detect the presence of violators.
>
> (Really.  I have no other explanation for my most recent ticket.  I had to
> drop off an edit to a friend and was away from the car for five minutes.  By
> the time I got back to the car, the attendant was gone and the ticket was on
> my dash.  For this reason, you might consider the purchase of a parking day
> pass (Ithey're $5.00), even though it shouldn't be necessary.
>
>
>