Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  Except for DocBook classes.

 It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. Embedded Raw Text matches pretty much all cases.

 DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

 The naming problem is th same as with short
 title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
 argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
  Except for DocBook classes.

 It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. Embedded Raw Text matches pretty much all cases.

 DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

 The naming problem is th same as with short
 title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
 argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> > Except for DocBook classes.
>
> It is impossible to make it right for all cases. 

I don't think so. "Embedded Raw Text" matches pretty much all cases.

> DocBook is rarely used compared to (La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. 

This doesn't matter. LyX is not a LaTeX frontend (only).

> The naming problem is th same as with short
> title, in some cases it is the short tittle but often only the optional
> argument.

Which is a bug (I mean, the naming).

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.

Except for DocBook classes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

Jürgen Spitzmüller schrieb:


because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.


Except for DocBook classes.


It is impossible to make it right for all cases. DocBook is rarely used compared to 
(La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. The naming problem is th same as with short title, in some cases it is the short 
tittle but often only the optional argument.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
 because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.

Except for DocBook classes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

Jürgen Spitzmüller schrieb:


because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.


Except for DocBook classes.


It is impossible to make it right for all cases. DocBook is rarely used compared to 
(La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. The naming problem is th same as with short title, in some cases it is the short 
tittle but often only the optional argument.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Uwe Stöhr wrote:
> because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.

Except for DocBook classes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

Jürgen Spitzmüller schrieb:


because that's what it is - code for the language TeX.


Except for DocBook classes.


It is impossible to make it right for all cases. DocBook is rarely used compared to 
(La)(Xe)(pdfla)TeX. The naming problem is th same as with short title, in some cases it is the short 
tittle but often only the optional argument.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Piero Faustini]

 If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw 
 Text. 

No, no, Evil Red TeX. It's Evil. It's Red. It's TeX. It is scaring and 
fashinating as some Red Army logo. +1 for keeping it.

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Thomas Steffen]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
  as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

I agree, it is not a useful term.

 If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw
 Text.

That is a lot better, and it does convey the same idea that it should
only be used as a last resort. But while keeping the acronym may be
handy, it could make it more difficult to break the habit. Maybe we
should rename it to raw output, raw code, or even transparent raw
code.

Regards,
Thomas

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

I'm impressed that you persevered so long discussing about a name of a term.

Except of the abbreviation ERT as short name for the TeX code inset LyX consistently names it TeX 
code (in the tooltips, toolbar, documentation files) because that's what it is - code for the 
language TeX.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Piero Faustini]

 If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw 
 Text. 

No, no, Evil Red TeX. It's Evil. It's Red. It's TeX. It is scaring and 
fashinating as some Red Army logo. +1 for keeping it.

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Thomas Steffen]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:
 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
  as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

I agree, it is not a useful term.

 If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw
 Text.

That is a lot better, and it does convey the same idea that it should
only be used as a last resort. But while keeping the acronym may be
handy, it could make it more difficult to break the habit. Maybe we
should rename it to raw output, raw code, or even transparent raw
code.

Regards,
Thomas

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

I'm impressed that you persevered so long discussing about a name of a term.

Except of the abbreviation ERT as short name for the TeX code inset LyX consistently names it TeX 
code (in the tooltips, toolbar, documentation files) because that's what it is - code for the 
language TeX.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Piero Faustini]

> If you wish, you can decode "ERT" in the collapsable buttons as "Embedded Raw 
> Text". 

No, no, "Evil Red TeX". It's Evil. It's Red. It's TeX. It is scaring and 
fashinating as some Red Army logo. +1 for keeping it.

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Thomas Steffen]

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
> Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
>> > The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
>> > as "Evil Red Text (ERT)" has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

I agree, it is not a useful term.

> If you wish, you can decode "ERT" in the collapsable buttons as "Embedded Raw
> Text".

That is a lot better, and it does convey the same idea that it should
only be used as a last resort. But while keeping the acronym may be
handy, it could make it more difficult to break the habit. Maybe we
should rename it to "raw output", "raw code", or even "transparent raw
code".

Regards,
Thomas

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Uwe Stöhr]

I'm impressed that you persevered so long discussing about a name of a term.

Except of the abbreviation "ERT" as short name for the TeX code inset LyX consistently names it "TeX 
code" (in the tooltips, toolbar, documentation files) because that's what it is - code for the 
language TeX.


regards Uwe

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Rich Shepard wrote:
 The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
 as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
TeX mode.

 Since LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything
 evil about LaTeX.

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, sometimes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
  as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

 Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used?
 AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use
 TeX mode.

If you refer to the button labels: Consider that TeX mode would not be 
appropriate, since in DocBook classes, ERT must contain XML, not (La)TeX.

If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw 
Text. 

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Christian Ridderström]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, 
sometimes.


I actually like ERT because of how it's a connection to the history of 
LyX and its origins. :-)


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:


If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded
Raw Text.


Juergen,

  That works. :-)

  Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. Yes, it's a
complicated markup language, but it's also exceptionally powerful.

  I'll withdraw my request.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Richard Heck]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

Rich Shepard wrote:
  

The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.



Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
TeX mode.


  

[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR evil red text * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo 
Evil Red Text) deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeXコードとしてマークしなければなりません。我々はその 
ようなコマンドを ERT (Evil Red Text)と呼んでいます。AASTeXドキュメントの

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.

rh

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR evil red text * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo Evil 
Red Text) deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeX?  ERT (Evil Red 
Text)AASTeX???

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.


  It also shows up when the cursor is paused over such a box.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Steve Litt]

On Friday 10 April 2009 01:33:10 pm Rich Shepard wrote:
 On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:
  If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded
  Raw Text.

 Juergen,

That works. :-)

For me too. Thinking of embedded LaTeX as ERT would have been a hard habit 
for me to break.


Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
 difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. 

I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the 
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off kind 
of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within 
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long as 
it was in your layout file where it belongs.

SteveT
 
Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[curtis osterhoudt]

When I first started learning LyX (what -- about 10 years ago?), I very much 
liked the name 'Evil Red Text'. It showed that the developers had a sense of 
humor, and the professionality of the manuals and the program itself was in no 
way impacted (in my mind) with the 'ERT'. A colleague of mine has made the same 
comment to me lately.

  Curtis O.

 /
Down with categorical imperative!
flutz...@yahoo.com
/





From: Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:14:42 AM
Subject: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it. Since
LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything evil
about LaTeX.

  More to the point, looking at how many requests for help in formatting
documents we see on this list involve inserting LaTeX code, the label of ERT
can be off-putting to those new to the tools as well as being highly
inappropriate.

  I'm asking that the term be retired. Better yet, killed and buried deep.
Notice on the icon bar the square that displays TeX and the cursor-hover
hint is Insert TeX code. No more ERT!

Rich

-- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863



  

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
     Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
  difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.

 I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the
 fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
 kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
 \mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

 I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
 as it was in your layout file where it belongs.

No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.

Kornel



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[rgheck]

Kornel Benko wrote:

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
  

   Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.
  

I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
as it was in your layout file where it belongs.



No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.


  

Evil as in necessary evil, I take it.

rh

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Rich Shepard wrote:
 The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
 as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
TeX mode.

 Since LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything
 evil about LaTeX.

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, sometimes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
  as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

 Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used?
 AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use
 TeX mode.

If you refer to the button labels: Consider that TeX mode would not be 
appropriate, since in DocBook classes, ERT must contain XML, not (La)TeX.

If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded Raw 
Text. 

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Christian Ridderström]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, 
sometimes.


I actually like ERT because of how it's a connection to the history of 
LyX and its origins. :-)


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:


If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded
Raw Text.


Juergen,

  That works. :-)

  Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. Yes, it's a
complicated markup language, but it's also exceptionally powerful.

  I'll withdraw my request.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Richard Heck]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

Rich Shepard wrote:
  

The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it.



Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no official term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
TeX mode.


  

[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR evil red text * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo 
Evil Red Text) deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeXコードとしてマークしなければなりません。我々はその 
ようなコマンドを ERT (Evil Red Text)と呼んでいます。AASTeXドキュメントの

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.

rh

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR evil red text * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo Evil 
Red Text) deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeX?  ERT (Evil Red 
Text)AASTeX???

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.


  It also shows up when the cursor is paused over such a box.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Steve Litt]

On Friday 10 April 2009 01:33:10 pm Rich Shepard wrote:
 On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:
  If you wish, you can decode ERT in the collapsable buttons as Embedded
  Raw Text.

 Juergen,

That works. :-)

For me too. Thinking of embedded LaTeX as ERT would have been a hard habit 
for me to break.


Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
 difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. 

I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the 
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off kind 
of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within 
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long as 
it was in your layout file where it belongs.

SteveT
 
Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[curtis osterhoudt]

When I first started learning LyX (what -- about 10 years ago?), I very much 
liked the name 'Evil Red Text'. It showed that the developers had a sense of 
humor, and the professionality of the manuals and the program itself was in no 
way impacted (in my mind) with the 'ERT'. A colleague of mine has made the same 
comment to me lately.

  Curtis O.

 /
Down with categorical imperative!
flutz...@yahoo.com
/





From: Rich Shepard rshep...@appl-ecosys.com
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:14:42 AM
Subject: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as Evil Red Text (ERT) has bothered me from the first time I saw it. Since
LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything evil
about LaTeX.

  More to the point, looking at how many requests for help in formatting
documents we see on this list involve inserting LaTeX code, the label of ERT
can be off-putting to those new to the tools as well as being highly
inappropriate.

  I'm asking that the term be retired. Better yet, killed and buried deep.
Notice on the icon bar the square that displays TeX and the cursor-hover
hint is Insert TeX code. No more ERT!

Rich

-- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
http://www.appl-ecosys.com Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863



  

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
     Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
  difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.

 I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the
 fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
 kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
 \mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

 I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
 as it was in your layout file where it belongs.

No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.

Kornel



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[rgheck]

Kornel Benko wrote:

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
  

   Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.
  

I don't think that's why it was called evil. The evilness comes from the
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
as it was in your layout file where it belongs.



No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.


  

Evil as in necessary evil, I take it.

rh

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Rich Shepard wrote:
> The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
> as "Evil Red Text (ERT)" has bothered me from the first time I saw it.

Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no "official" term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
"TeX mode".

> Since LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything
> "evil" about LaTeX.

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, sometimes.

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> > The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
> > as "Evil Red Text (ERT)" has bothered me from the first time I saw it.
>
> Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used?
> AFAIK, it is no "official" term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use
> "TeX mode".

If you refer to the button labels: Consider that "TeX mode" would not be 
appropriate, since in DocBook classes, ERT must contain XML, not (La)TeX.

If you wish, you can decode "ERT" in the collapsable buttons as "Embedded Raw 
Text". 

Jürgen

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Christian Ridderström]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

It's a joke. Irony. Developers also want to have (a bit of) fun, 
sometimes.


I actually like "ERT" because of how it's a connection to the history of 
LyX and its origins. :-)


/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:


If you wish, you can decode "ERT" in the collapsable buttons as "Embedded
Raw Text".


Juergen,

  That works. :-)

  Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. Yes, it's a
complicated markup language, but it's also exceptionally powerful.

  I'll withdraw my request.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Richard Heck]

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

Rich Shepard wrote:
  

The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as "Evil Red Text (ERT)" has bothered me from the first time I saw it.



Could you point me to the places in the manuals where this acronym is used? 
AFAIK, it is no "official" term (anymore). The (English) manuals always use 
"TeX mode".


  

[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR "evil red text" * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo 
"Evil Red Text") deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeXコードとしてマークしなければなりません。我々はその 
ようなコマンドを ERT (Evil Red Text)と呼んでいます。AASTeXドキュメントの

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.

rh

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Rich Shepard]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Richard Heck wrote:


[rgh...@localhost doc]$ pwd
/cvs/lyx-devel/trunk/lib/doc
[rgh...@localhost doc]$ grep -iR "evil red text" * | grep -v .svn
DocStyle.lyx:Evil Red Text
es/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
eu/Extended.lyx: Komando-mota horiei ERT (Inpernuko Testu Gorria edo "Evil 
Red Text") deritze.

Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as TeX code, or Evil Red Text.
fr/Extended.lyx:NdT : Evil Red Text
fr/Extended.lyx:Evil Red Text
gl/Tutorial.lyx:[N.T] Evil Red Text = Malvado texto vermello.
ja/Extended.lyx: LaTeX?  ERT (Evil Red 
Text)AASTeX???

pl/Extended.lyx: Such commands are referred to as ERT, or Evil Red Text.


  It also shows up when the cursor is paused over such a box.

Rich

--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Steve Litt]

On Friday 10 April 2009 01:33:10 pm Rich Shepard wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote:
> > If you wish, you can decode "ERT" in the collapsable buttons as "Embedded
> > Raw Text".
>
> Juergen,
>
>That works. :-)

For me too. Thinking of embedded LaTeX as "ERT" would have been a hard habit 
for me to break.

>
>Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
> difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it. 

I don't think that's why it was called "evil". The evilness comes from the 
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off kind 
of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within 
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long as 
it was in your layout file where it belongs.

SteveT
 
Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[curtis osterhoudt]

When I first started learning LyX (what -- about 10 years ago?), I very much 
liked the name 'Evil Red Text'. It showed that the developers had a sense of 
humor, and the professionality of the manuals and the program itself was in no 
way impacted (in my mind) with the 'ERT'. A colleague of mine has made the same 
comment to me lately.

  Curtis O.

 /
Down with categorical imperative!
flutz...@yahoo.com
/





From: Rich Shepard 
To: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:14:42 AM
Subject: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

  The reference to embedded LaTeX within a document being written with LyX
as "Evil Red Text (ERT)" has bothered me from the first time I saw it. Since
LyX is a GUI front end to LaTeX I fail to see how there's anything "evil"
about LaTeX.

  More to the point, looking at how many requests for help in formatting
documents we see on this list involve inserting LaTeX code, the label of ERT
can be off-putting to those new to the tools as well as being highly
inappropriate.

  I'm asking that the term be retired. Better yet, killed and buried deep.
Notice on the icon bar the square that displays "TeX" and the cursor-hover
hint is "Insert TeX code." No more ERT!

Rich

-- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D.   |  IntegrityCredibility
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc.|Innovation
 Voice: 503-667-4517  Fax: 503-667-8863



  

Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[Kornel Benko]

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
> >    Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
> > difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.
>
> I don't think that's why it was called "evil". The evilness comes from the
> fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
> kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
> \mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.
>
> I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
> as it was in your layout file where it belongs.

No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.

Kornel



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Re: Terminology Change Request for Next Release

[rgheck]

Kornel Benko wrote:

Am Freitag 10 April 2009 schrieb Steve Litt:
  

   Perhaps I'm too sensitive to those who claim that LaTeX is much too
difficult so they won't try LyX or learn LaTeX as they need it.
  

I don't think that's why it was called "evil". The evilness comes from the
fact that you're formatting, presumably within \mainmatter, in a one-off
kind of way instead of using environments or character styles. ERT within
\mainmatter is often an indication of fingerpainting.

I really don't think anyone on this list thought of LaTeX as evil, as long
as it was in your layout file where it belongs.



No, it was so named, because it appeared in red in your text.
And evil in the sense, that sometimes you had to use it, although you tried to 
make everything with lyx-commands only.


  

Evil as in "necessary evil", I take it.

rh