Re: A Sleeping Conundrum when using VoiceOver to Read Books in the Kindle App

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hi Mark,

you could set a sleep timer
 the native clock app. Set the alarm tone to sleep or what ever it’s called on 
an english device and you are good to go. Now you are even able to use Siri to 
set the sleep timer.

All the best
Jürgen



> Am 05.04.2022 um 00:32 schrieb M. Taylor :
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> So, one aspect of enjoying audiobooks is the ability to set a sleep timer in
> order to have audio playback stop after a specific number of minutes have
> passed.
> 
> Recently I am reading more and more titles via the Kindle app using the
> VoiceOver TTS.
> 
> The problem?  When I start VoiceOver continuous reading of a Kindle app
> title, it keeps going after I fall asleep.  So, by the time I wake up, the
> title is marked as finished (smile).  
> 
> What a first-world conundrum, eh? (smile).
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas on how to resolve this problem?
> 
> I was thinking about trying the Speak Screen feature but I don't know if it
> offers a sleep timer or not.
> 
> I would like to use VoiceDream Reader to enjoy my Kindle content but
> understand that this is not possible. 
> 
> I know that I can get Alexa to read a Kindle title on either an Apple device
> or on an Echo but, as far as I know, the problem persists.  I find that I
> prefer the VO TTS to Alexa when reading longs titles, by the way.
> 
> All replies greatly appreciated.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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RE: A bit of personal news

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Donna,

I certainly wish you the best of luck with your upcoming surgery. Hope it isn’t 
too painful during the recovery. I’d be interested in how this works out and 
how you are doing.

kriegle...@gmail.com  .

Best,

 

Les

 

From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 5:42 PM
To: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: OT: A bit of personal news

 

Hi all,

 

Warning, this is a little long.  I’ve debated whether or not to share this with 
the list, but I’ve known many of you in this community for a long time now, so 
I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to others here who 
have my same visual condition.  If you don’t want to read, feel free to hit the 
delete key. :)

 

Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that was 
being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to treat 
Liber’s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my blindness.  
Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.  My cousin who 
works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I subsequently 
volunteered to be a participant.

 

The whole story is long, but here’s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in 
November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match for 
the specific genetic mutation that they’re studying.  Shortly before Christmas, 
I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had been accepted for 
participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount of pre-surgery stuff, 
such as having a congenital cataract removed in order to give the surgeon 
better access to my retina.  But all that is now done, and I leave on Wednesday 
for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on April 12.

 

Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety of 
applications that could make many people’s lives better.  My layperson’s 
explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors loose 
in my retina.  The bots’ job will be to cut out the malfunctioning area of the 
gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the necessary proteins to 
send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this is expected to produce a 
gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more medically based explanation, you 
can check out this link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.

 

I know that we all have different feelings about the “cure.”  As for me 
personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were 
surprised that I volunteered for the trial—to some extent, including myself. I 
do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn’t say no 
to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary motivation for 
volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my personal outcome, 
I’m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the participants has had 
reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation is that, while I may see 
better, the overall picture of my life won’t change that much.

 

 

Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I’m certifiably insane for 
letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I’m  optimistic and 
excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.

 

If you’ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to 
send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of interest 
to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can email you 
privately.

Cheers,

Donna

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Re: Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Robin Frost]

Hi,

However, it is sometimes helpful to know what the visual symbols or cues 
are so that if a sighted person you know asks for help you can translate 
things into that which they would interact with and understand. I find 
knowing such helpful and intriguing in that context.


Take good care.

Robin


On 4/4/2022 6:53 PM, Herbie Allen wrote:

This is why I am a believer in teaching VO separat from visuals. This way, you 
learn how VO  interprets things and you don’t have to worry about differences.


On Apr 4, 2022, at 14:45, Steve Matzura  wrote:

My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out 
something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access shortcuts in 
a different order than the symbols are presented on the screen. For instance, 
in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says Command-Shift-F, while the 
graphic shows the symbol for Shift first, then the pinwheel-like symbol for 
Command, then the F. In the thirteen years I've used VO with MacOS, starting 
with Leopard and then Snow Leopard, I've never known or noticed this. In fact, 
I've never bothered to learn the shapes of the graphic symbols for Shift (which 
I think is an up-pointing arrow), Command (the pinwheel), Option (which I think 
is a wavy line or lines), or Control (which I don't know at all). Would 
appreciate some confirmation and claraification on those. But isn't it 
interesting that VO reads them in a different order, which means it's not 
really reading anything at all--it's just reading the text from a symbols 
dictionary for certain things.


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Re: Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Herbie Allen]

This is why I am a believer in teaching VO separat from visuals. This way, you 
learn how VO  interprets things and you don’t have to worry about differences.

> On Apr 4, 2022, at 14:45, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out 
> something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access shortcuts 
> in a different order than the symbols are presented on the screen. For 
> instance, in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says Command-Shift-F, 
> while the graphic shows the symbol for Shift first, then the pinwheel-like 
> symbol for Command, then the F. In the thirteen years I've used VO with 
> MacOS, starting with Leopard and then Snow Leopard, I've never known or 
> noticed this. In fact, I've never bothered to learn the shapes of the graphic 
> symbols for Shift (which I think is an up-pointing arrow), Command (the 
> pinwheel), Option (which I think is a wavy line or lines), or Control (which 
> I don't know at all). Would appreciate some confirmation and claraification 
> on those. But isn't it interesting that VO reads them in a different order, 
> which means it's not really reading anything at all--it's just reading the 
> text from a symbols dictionary for certain things.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> 
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Re: OT: A bit of personal news

[Yolanda Thompson]

That is so awesome! Best of luck to you and a fantastic outcome!

On 4/4/22, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Warning, this is a little long.  I’ve debated whether or not to share this
> with the list, but I’ve known many of you in this community for a long time
> now, so I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to
> others here who have my same visual condition.  If you don’t want to read,
> feel free to hit the delete key. :)
>
> Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that
> was being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to
> treat Liber’s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my
> blindness.  Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.
> My cousin who works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I
> subsequently volunteered to be a participant.
>
> The whole story is long, but here’s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in
> November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match
> for the specific genetic mutation that they’re studying.  Shortly before
> Christmas, I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had
> been accepted for participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount
> of pre-surgery stuff, such as having a congenital cataract removed in order
> to give the surgeon better access to my retina.  But all that is now done,
> and I leave on Wednesday for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on
> April 12.
>
> Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety
> of applications that could make many people’s lives better.  My layperson’s
> explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors
> loose in my retina.  The bots’ job will be to cut out the malfunctioning
> area of the gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the
> necessary proteins to send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this
> is expected to produce a gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more
> medically based explanation, you can check out this link:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.
>
> I know that we all have different feelings about the “cure.”  As for me
> personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were
> surprised that I volunteered for the trial—to some extent, including myself.
> I do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn’t
> say no to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary
> motivation for volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my
> personal outcome, I’m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the
> participants has had reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation
> is that, while I may see better, the overall picture of my life won’t change
> that much.
>
>
> Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I’m certifiably insane for
> letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I’m  optimistic
> and excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.
>
> If you’ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to
> send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of
> interest to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can
> email you privately.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>
> --
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> Visionaries list.
>
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>

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Re: OT: A bit of personal news

[Kathryn Zodrow]

Wow Donna. That’s really great news! That’s very cool you ended up being a 
match and are going to participate in the study in Portland for Libirs. Best of 
luck with that and I hope it goes well for you! :-)
Katie


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2022, at 2:55 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Donna!
> I am ssososososo happy for you.
> What a fine experience, science alone.
> would you  mind  sending me updates privately?
> klewel...@shellworld.net
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Warning, this is a little long.  I’ve debated whether or not to share this 
>> with the list, but I’ve known many of you in this community for a long time 
>> now, so I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to 
>> others here who have my same visual condition.  If you don’t want to read, 
>> feel free to hit the delete key. :)
>> 
>> Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that 
>> was being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to 
>> treat Liber’s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my 
>> blindness.  Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.  
>> My cousin who works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I 
>> subsequently volunteered to be a participant.
>> 
>> The whole story is long, but here’s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in 
>> November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match 
>> for the specific genetic mutation that they’re studying.  Shortly before 
>> Christmas, I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had 
>> been accepted for participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount 
>> of pre-surgery stuff, such as having a congenital cataract removed in order 
>> to give the surgeon better access to my retina.  But all that is now done, 
>> and I leave on Wednesday for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on 
>> April 12.
>> 
>> Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety 
>> of applications that could make many people’s lives better.  My layperson’s 
>> explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors 
>> loose in my retina.  The bots’ job will be to cut out the malfunctioning 
>> area of the gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the 
>> necessary proteins to send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this 
>> is expected to produce a gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more 
>> medically based explanation, you can check out this link: 
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.
>> 
>> I know that we all have different feelings about the “cure.”  As for me 
>> personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were 
>> surprised that I volunteered for the trial—to some extent, including myself. 
>> I do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn’t 
>> say no to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary 
>> motivation for volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my 
>> personal outcome, I’m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the 
>> participants has had reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation 
>> is that, while I may see better, the overall picture of my life won’t change 
>> that much.
>> 
>> 
>> Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I’m certifiably insane for 
>> letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I’m  optimistic 
>> and excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.
>> 
>> If you’ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to 
>> send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of 
>> interest to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can 
>> email you privately.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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A Sleeping Conundrum when using VoiceOver to Read Books in the Kindle App

[M. Taylor]

Hello All,

So, one aspect of enjoying audiobooks is the ability to set a sleep timer in
order to have audio playback stop after a specific number of minutes have
passed.

Recently I am reading more and more titles via the Kindle app using the
VoiceOver TTS.

The problem?  When I start VoiceOver continuous reading of a Kindle app
title, it keeps going after I fall asleep.  So, by the time I wake up, the
title is marked as finished (smile).  

What a first-world conundrum, eh? (smile).

Does anyone have any ideas on how to resolve this problem?

I was thinking about trying the Speak Screen feature but I don't know if it
offers a sleep timer or not.

I would like to use VoiceDream Reader to enjoy my Kindle content but
understand that this is not possible. 

I know that I can get Alexa to read a Kindle title on either an Apple device
or on an Echo but, as far as I know, the problem persists.  I find that I
prefer the VO TTS to Alexa when reading longs titles, by the way.

All replies greatly appreciated.

Mark


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RE: A bit of personal news

[sarai.bucciarelli]

That’s awesome. I’d love to hear how it goes. Goood luck.

 

From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 4:42 PM
To: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: OT: A bit of personal news

 

Hi all,

 

Warning, this is a little long.  I’ve debated whether or not to share this with 
the list, but I’ve known many of you in this community for a long time now, so 
I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to others here who 
have my same visual condition.  If you don’t want to read, feel free to hit the 
delete key. :)

 

Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that was 
being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to treat 
Liber’s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my blindness.  
Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.  My cousin who 
works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I subsequently 
volunteered to be a participant.

 

The whole story is long, but here’s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in 
November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match for 
the specific genetic mutation that they’re studying.  Shortly before Christmas, 
I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had been accepted for 
participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount of pre-surgery stuff, 
such as having a congenital cataract removed in order to give the surgeon 
better access to my retina.  But all that is now done, and I leave on Wednesday 
for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on April 12.

 

Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety of 
applications that could make many people’s lives better.  My layperson’s 
explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors loose 
in my retina.  The bots’ job will be to cut out the malfunctioning area of the 
gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the necessary proteins to 
send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this is expected to produce a 
gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more medically based explanation, you 
can check out this link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.

 

I know that we all have different feelings about the “cure.”  As for me 
personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were 
surprised that I volunteered for the trial—to some extent, including myself. I 
do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn’t say no 
to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary motivation for 
volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my personal outcome, 
I’m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the participants has had 
reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation is that, while I may see 
better, the overall picture of my life won’t change that much.

 

 

Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I’m certifiably insane for 
letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I’m  optimistic and 
excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.

 

If you’ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to 
send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of interest 
to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can email you 
privately.

Cheers,

Donna

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Re: OT: A bit of personal news

[Karen Lewellen]

Donna!
I am ssososososo happy for you.
What a fine experience, science alone.
would you  mind  sending me updates privately?
klewel...@shellworld.net
Karen



On Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:


Hi all,

Warning, this is a little long.  I???ve debated whether or not to share this 
with the list, but I???ve known many of you in this community for a long time 
now, so I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to others 
here who have my same visual condition.  If you don???t want to read, feel free 
to hit the delete key. :)

Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that was 
being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to treat 
Liber???s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my 
blindness.  Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.  My 
cousin who works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I 
subsequently volunteered to be a participant.

The whole story is long, but here???s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in 
November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match for 
the specific genetic mutation that they???re studying.  Shortly before 
Christmas, I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had been 
accepted for participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount of 
pre-surgery stuff, such as having a congenital cataract removed in order to 
give the surgeon better access to my retina.  But all that is now done, and I 
leave on Wednesday for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on April 12.

Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety of 
applications that could make many people???s lives better.  My layperson???s 
explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors loose 
in my retina.  The bots??? job will be to cut out the malfunctioning area of 
the gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the necessary proteins 
to send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this is expected to 
produce a gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more medically based 
explanation, you can check out this link: 
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.

I know that we all have different feelings about the ???cure.???  As for me 
personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were 
surprised that I volunteered for the trial???to some extent, including myself. 
I do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn???t say 
no to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary motivation 
for volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my personal 
outcome, I???m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the participants 
has had reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation is that, while I 
may see better, the overall picture of my life won???t change that much.


Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I???m certifiably insane for 
letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I???m  optimistic 
and excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.

If you???ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to 
send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of interest 
to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can email you 
privately.
Cheers,
Donna

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OT: A bit of personal news

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi all,

Warning, this is a little long.  I’ve debated whether or not to share this with 
the list, but I’ve known many of you in this community for a long time now, so 
I thought I would, since it could potentially be of interest to others here who 
have my same visual condition.  If you don’t want to read, feel free to hit the 
delete key. :)

Last fall, , National Public Radio did a story about a clinical trial that was 
being conducted using a new gene editing technique called CRISPR to treat 
Liber’s Congenital Amaurosis, which is the condition that caused my blindness.  
Being an inquisitive sort, I decided to try and find out more.  My cousin who 
works in genetics was able to track down the study, and I subsequently 
volunteered to be a participant.

The whole story is long, but here’s a synopsis.  I went to Portland OR in 
November, where they had to do a genetic panel to make sure I was a match for 
the specific genetic mutation that they’re studying.  Shortly before Christmas, 
I received the news that I am in fact a match, and that I had been accepted for 
participation in the trial.  There followed a fair amount of pre-surgery stuff, 
such as having a congenital cataract removed in order to give the surgeon 
better access to my retina.  But all that is now done, and I leave on Wednesday 
for Portland.  The procedure will be performed on April 12.

Crispr is pretty amazing stuff.  It has a lot of promise in a wide variety of 
applications that could make many people’s lives better.  My layperson’s 
explanation of it is that they will turn a tiny bot armed with scissors loose 
in my retina.  The bots’ job will be to cut out the malfunctioning area of the 
gene and mend it, so that the gene starts to produce the necessary proteins to 
send visual information to the brain.  Over time, this is expected to produce a 
gradual improvement in my vision.  For a more medically based explanation, you 
can check out this link: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0493-4.

I know that we all have different feelings about the “cure.”  As for me 
personally, I have never sought it out.  In fact, many who know me were 
surprised that I volunteered for the trial—to some extent, including myself. I 
do have some vision, and I do use the vision that I have, so I wouldn’t say no 
to any improvement, should that be the outcome.  But my primary motivation for 
volunteering was to help further the science, and whatever my personal outcome, 
I’m excited to be a part of that.  So far, none of the participants has had 
reason to go out and buy a new car, so, my expectation is that, while I may see 
better, the overall picture of my life won’t change that much.


Though I do experience moments when I wonder if I’m certifiably insane for 
letting someone take a pair of pruning shears to my genes, I’m  optimistic and 
excited at the prospect of leaving this legacy for others who have LCA.

If you’ve read all this, thanks for reading.  It is not currently my plan to 
send updates to the list, because it is off-topic and will not be of interest 
to everyone.  But if you want to be updated, let me know, and I can email you 
privately.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Jeff Berwick]

When programming, coders usually have access to the accessible text for the 
menu items.  At least, when I programmed in DotNet for Windows they did.  I 
expect it is the same or similar on Mac.  

So, you would put in the text that you wish to show, select the different key 
combinations for any shortcuts and then set your accessible text to provide 
clues to the user.

Jeff


> On Apr 4, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out 
> something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access shortcuts 
> in a different order than the symbols are presented on the screen. For 
> instance, in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says Command-Shift-F, 
> while the graphic shows the symbol for Shift first, then the pinwheel-like 
> symbol for Command, then the F. In the thirteen years I've used VO with 
> MacOS, starting with Leopard and then Snow Leopard, I've never known or 
> noticed this. In fact, I've never bothered to learn the shapes of the graphic 
> symbols for Shift (which I think is an up-pointing arrow), Command (the 
> pinwheel), Option (which I think is a wavy line or lines), or Control (which 
> I don't know at all). Would appreciate some confirmation and claraification 
> on those. But isn't it interesting that VO reads them in a different order, 
> which means it's not really reading anything at all--it's just reading the 
> text from a symbols dictionary for certain things.
> 
> 
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Re: Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Steve Matzura]

Thanks. Maybe that's what my wife meant by a wavy line. But wait! That's 
not the caret shape.



On 4/4/2022 5:03 PM, Yolanda Thompson wrote:

Control is like a caret

On 4/4/22, Steve Matzura  wrote:

My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out
something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access
shortcuts in a different order than the symbols are presented on the
screen. For instance, in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says
Command-Shift-F, while the graphic shows the symbol for Shift first,
then the pinwheel-like symbol for Command, then the F. In the thirteen
years I've used VO with MacOS, starting with Leopard and then Snow
Leopard, I've never known or noticed this. In fact, I've never bothered
to learn the shapes of the graphic symbols for Shift (which I think is
an up-pointing arrow), Command (the pinwheel), Option (which I think is
a wavy line or lines), or Control (which I don't know at all). Would
appreciate some confirmation and claraification on those. But isn't it
interesting that VO reads them in a different order, which means it's
not really reading anything at all--it's just reading the text from a
symbols dictionary for certain things.


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Re: Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Yolanda Thompson]

Control is like a caret

On 4/4/22, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out
> something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access
> shortcuts in a different order than the symbols are presented on the
> screen. For instance, in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says
> Command-Shift-F, while the graphic shows the symbol for Shift first,
> then the pinwheel-like symbol for Command, then the F. In the thirteen
> years I've used VO with MacOS, starting with Leopard and then Snow
> Leopard, I've never known or noticed this. In fact, I've never bothered
> to learn the shapes of the graphic symbols for Shift (which I think is
> an up-pointing arrow), Command (the pinwheel), Option (which I think is
> a wavy line or lines), or Control (which I don't know at all). Would
> appreciate some confirmation and claraification on those. But isn't it
> interesting that VO reads them in a different order, which means it's
> not really reading anything at all--it's just reading the text from a
> symbols dictionary for certain things.
>
>
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> Visionaries list.
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Something very interesting I just learned about menus and VoiceOver

[Steve Matzura]

My wife, who uses a Mac without VoiceOver because she can, pointed out 
something interesting today. Apparently, VO announces menu access 
shortcuts in a different order than the symbols are presented on the 
screen. For instance, in Mail, for Forward (on the Message menu) VO says 
Command-Shift-F, while the graphic shows the symbol for Shift first, 
then the pinwheel-like symbol for Command, then the F. In the thirteen 
years I've used VO with MacOS, starting with Leopard and then Snow 
Leopard, I've never known or noticed this. In fact, I've never bothered 
to learn the shapes of the graphic symbols for Shift (which I think is 
an up-pointing arrow), Command (the pinwheel), Option (which I think is 
a wavy line or lines), or Control (which I don't know at all). Would 
appreciate some confirmation and claraification on those. But isn't it 
interesting that VO reads them in a different order, which means it's 
not really reading anything at all--it's just reading the text from a 
symbols dictionary for certain things.



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