Re: Terminal and voiceover

[Karen Lewellen]

That is fine for you.
Still, for me personally, following what voiceover is saying, getting 
things repeated when I need remains a challenge, even choosing, 
configuring 
a solid voice.
For now my goal is to use this mac for things I can do nowhere else, and I 
am not a programmer.




On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Brandon Olivares wrote:


I'm a programmer so I spend lots of time in the Terminal. I've never had any 
issue with it. Sometimes VoiceOver won't read every single line, but before an 
important operation where I want to read all the output, I press cmd+K to clear 
the screen and so the only output is from the next command I type. That tends 
to help.


On Jun 26, 2022, at 10:55 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Thanks for the warning.
I do not use any Linux speech as it is for the same reason this  quest for 
voiceover took so long.
Granted I have scores of possible apple things to do long before considering  
work in the terminal, but I have even less reason to spend energy in that 
direction.
Thanks again,



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


No, voiceover does not work flawlessly. There are times when only the first 
couple and last couple lines are spoken. I think that if information is written 
in multiple blocks, then this occurs.
Also, by default terminal has a infinite scroll back, and voiceover can visit 
all of this. So if you are in a curses based editor (vi, mvi, emacs) then using 
the VO commands to go to top of window will bring you not to the first line in 
the terminal window, but the first line in the history of the terminal window.
I believe there is a different terminal available with home-brew that some 
people says works better with VoiceOver. There is also a way to get EMACSpeak.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn




On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:


The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell prompt.

On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:

Dear Jürgen,
Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
All best,
Andrew


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Re: Terminal and voiceover

[Brandon Olivares]

I'm a programmer so I spend lots of time in the Terminal. I've never had any 
issue with it. Sometimes VoiceOver won't read every single line, but before an 
important operation where I want to read all the output, I press cmd+K to clear 
the screen and so the only output is from the next command I type. That tends 
to help.

> On Jun 26, 2022, at 10:55 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the warning.
> I do not use any Linux speech as it is for the same reason this  quest for 
> voiceover took so long.
> Granted I have scores of possible apple things to do long before considering  
> work in the terminal, but I have even less reason to spend energy in that 
> direction.
> Thanks again,
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Jonathan Cohn wrote:
> 
>> No, voiceover does not work flawlessly. There are times when only the first 
>> couple and last couple lines are spoken. I think that if information is 
>> written in multiple blocks, then this occurs.
>> Also, by default terminal has a infinite scroll back, and voiceover can 
>> visit all of this. So if you are in a curses based editor (vi, mvi, emacs) 
>> then using the VO commands to go to top of window will bring you not to the 
>> first line in the terminal window, but the first line in the history of the 
>> terminal window.
>> I believe there is a different terminal available with home-brew that some 
>> people says works better with VoiceOver. There is also a way to get 
>> EMACSpeak.
>> 
>>  Best wishes,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> 
 The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell 
 prompt.
 
 On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:
> Dear Jürgen,
> Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
> All best,
> Andrew
 
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Re: likely a silly question about the mac desktop.

[Karen Lewellen]

I am not interested in running the terminal if voiceover is not 100%  no 
idea how to even get there.

Are applications normally in the docs?
Something I read from  another voiceover source suggested that vo-d just 
takes you to the desktop.
Still want to  access voiceover help keys and the like, which do not seem 
to  be terminal associated.

Likewise pages could  serve the same typing practice goal.

All of my Linux Ubuntu shell work is via a service, called shellworld, 
using my non Linux screen reader.




On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


Hello,
If applications are in the dock then pressing the VO-D then the first few 
letters of the applications followed by return will launch the application.
Alternatively, you could use the open command in terminal.
open -a textedit
will open and activate the textedit application
open myDocument.txt
will open myDocument.txt in the default application for that file
open -a textedit myDocument.txt
will open myDocument.txt in the textedit application

Here is some more info:
joncohn@speedy ~ %
open: unrecognized option `--help'
Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s ][-b ] [-a ] [-u URL] [filenames] [--args arguments]
Help: Open opens files from a shell.
 By default, opens each file using the default application for that file.
 If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.
Options:
 -aOpens with the specified application.
 -bOpens with the specified application bundle 
identifier.
 -eOpens with TextEdit.
 -tOpens with default text editor.
 -fReads input from standard input and opens with 
TextEdit.
 -F  --fresh   Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring 
windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
 -R, --reveal  Selects in the Finder instead of opening.
 -W, --wait-apps   Blocks until the used applications are closed (even 
if they were already running).
 --argsAll remaining arguments are passed in argv to the 
application's main() function instead of opened.
 -n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one 
is already running.
 -j, --hideLaunches the app hidden.
 -g, --background  Does not bring the application to the foreground.
 -h, --header  Searches header file locations for headers matching 
the given filenames, and opens them.
 -sFor -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs whose 
names contain the argument value are searched.
   Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each platform 
is used.
 -u, --url URL Open this URL, even if it matches exactly a filepath
 -i, --stdin  PATH Launches the application with stdin connected to 
PATH; defaults to /dev/null
 -o, --stdout PATH Launches the application with /dev/stdout connected 
to PATH;
 --stderr PATH Launches the application with /dev/stderr connected 
to PATH to
 --envVAR  Add an enviroment variable to the launched process, 
where VAR is formatted AAA=foo or just AAA for a null string value.

Jonathan Cohn




On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:57, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Hi folks,
One thing I am personally finding I seriously need is  basic keyboard typing 
practice.
On my main computers, because I have been using  them for so many years, I am a 
swift typist who is very very very  used to keeping my hands on the main 
keyboard and knowing where I am from a screen reader standpoint as well.
I am personally feeling that some time with either textedit, or pages, will let 
me just practice typing with no fear that I will set something off with the mac 
itself.
I want to be so solid with my typing that entering my password without input 
will be effortless, I doubt I can turn off having to provide his for my apple 
ID for example.
so, at this stage, what is the fastest way to load textedit?  say using the 
menu bar, if that is an option?
I will want to know as well how to keep certain programs I use often either in 
the finder, or in the menu,  bar, which ever   is most practical.
I am used to just typing whatever starts the program, I never used windows at 
all.
Ideas?
Kare





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Re: Terminal and voiceover

[Karen Lewellen]

Thanks for the warning.
I do not use any Linux speech as it is for the same reason this  quest for 
voiceover took so long.
Granted I have scores of possible apple things to do long before 
considering  work in the terminal, but I have even less reason to spend 
energy in that direction.

Thanks again,



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


No, voiceover does not work flawlessly. There are times when only the first 
couple and last couple lines are spoken. I think that if information is written 
in multiple blocks, then this occurs.
Also, by default terminal has a infinite scroll back, and voiceover can visit 
all of this. So if you are in a curses based editor (vi, mvi, emacs) then using 
the VO commands to go to top of window will bring you not to the first line in 
the terminal window, but the first line in the history of the terminal window.
I believe there is a different terminal available with home-brew that some 
people says works better with VoiceOver. There is also a way to get EMACSpeak.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn




On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:


The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell prompt.

On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:

Dear J??rgen,
Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
All best,
Andrew


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Re: Using the terminal (was Re: basic finder question)

[Karen Lewellen]

Honestly, I cannot imagine why I would want to do that, I have, and intend 
to  keep my shell service account.
It seems like an interesting tool, tab completion, but for me personally 
I am a better housekeeper than to need the computer to tell me what files 
are  there.

Thanks for the explanation though.
Kare



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Jonathan Cohn wrote:


Hello,
The tab completions in the terminal are controlled by the shell being used. I 
believe Catalina is using an older bash, and that new accounts created with Big 
Sir and newer use zsh because of some licensing issues with the bash shell.
Zsh can get quite complicated in configuring completions, but of course it will never 
match TOPS-20 command line where the "shell" (in quotes) communicated with 
command line applications and knew every switch and had a short description of every 
switch.
But I have digressed, pressing tab with either zsh or bash using default Mac 
settings will complete to aa command in the path for arg0 and will complete to 
a filename in additional arguments. If there are multiple matches, I can't 
remember if it just completes to where the multiple versions diverge and then 
beeps repeatedly as additional tabs are pressed, or if additional tabs will 
rotate through the various services. Certainly you should be able to grab your 
linux shell configurations and use them on the Mac with little changes, like 
library paths and paths.
Jonathan

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn




On Jun 26, 2022, at 20:35, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:




On 26 Jun, 2022, at 20:03, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Perhaps I should ask this differently.
Can one move from the apple desktop into terminal using voiceover and work 
equally as well?
could I work in programs in the terminal using voiceover, just as I can use it  
with programs in the main desktop?

Yes, the terminal is treated as just another application so far as VoiceOver is 
concerned.

I am not even sure what tab completion means in general, I do not personally 
use the tab key much outside of word processing.

It???s a feature of the shell that completes partially typed commands and file 
names. For example, if you had a directory named ???documents??? and you typed 
???do???, then pressed the tab key, it would complete the rest of the name - 
assuming that there are no other names beginning with ???do???. Typically, 
pressing the tab key twice gives you a list of names that match.

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Re: likely a silly question about the mac desktop.

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,
If applications are in the dock then pressing the VO-D then the first few 
letters of the applications followed by return will launch the application.
Alternatively, you could use the open command in terminal.
open -a textedit 
will open and activate the textedit application
open myDocument.txt 
will open myDocument.txt in the default application for that file 
open -a textedit myDocument.txt 
will open myDocument.txt in the textedit application 

Here is some more info:
joncohn@speedy ~ % 
open: unrecognized option `--help'
Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s ][-b 
] [-a ] [-u URL] [filenames] [--args arguments]
Help: Open opens files from a shell.
  By default, opens each file using the default application for that file.  
  If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.
Options: 
  -aOpens with the specified application.
  -bOpens with the specified application bundle 
identifier.
  -eOpens with TextEdit.
  -tOpens with default text editor.
  -fReads input from standard input and opens with 
TextEdit.
  -F  --fresh   Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring 
windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
  -R, --reveal  Selects in the Finder instead of opening.
  -W, --wait-apps   Blocks until the used applications are closed (even 
if they were already running).
  --argsAll remaining arguments are passed in argv to the 
application's main() function instead of opened.
  -n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one 
is already running.
  -j, --hideLaunches the app hidden.
  -g, --background  Does not bring the application to the foreground.
  -h, --header  Searches header file locations for headers matching 
the given filenames, and opens them.
  -sFor -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs 
whose names contain the argument value are searched.
Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each 
platform is used.
  -u, --url URL Open this URL, even if it matches exactly a filepath
  -i, --stdin  PATH Launches the application with stdin connected to 
PATH; defaults to /dev/null
  -o, --stdout PATH Launches the application with /dev/stdout connected 
to PATH; 
  --stderr PATH Launches the application with /dev/stderr connected 
to PATH to
  --envVAR  Add an enviroment variable to the launched process, 
where VAR is formatted AAA=foo or just AAA for a null string value.

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:57, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> One thing I am personally finding I seriously need is  basic keyboard typing 
> practice.
> On my main computers, because I have been using  them for so many years, I am 
> a swift typist who is very very very  used to keeping my hands on the main 
> keyboard and knowing where I am from a screen reader standpoint as well.
> I am personally feeling that some time with either textedit, or pages, will 
> let me just practice typing with no fear that I will set something off with 
> the mac itself.
> I want to be so solid with my typing that entering my password without input 
> will be effortless, I doubt I can turn off having to provide his for my apple 
> ID for example.
> so, at this stage, what is the fastest way to load textedit?  say using the 
> menu bar, if that is an option?
> I will want to know as well how to keep certain programs I use often either 
> in the finder, or in the menu,  bar, which ever   is most practical.
> I am used to just typing whatever starts the program, I never used windows at 
> all.
> Ideas?
> Kare
> 
> 
> 

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Terminal and voiceover

[Jonathan Cohn]

No, voiceover does not work flawlessly. There are times when only the first 
couple and last couple lines are spoken. I think that if information is written 
in multiple blocks, then this occurs.
Also, by default terminal has a infinite scroll back, and voiceover can visit 
all of this. So if you are in a curses based editor (vi, mvi, emacs) then using 
the VO commands to go to top of window will bring you not to the first line in 
the terminal window, but the first line in the history of the terminal window.
I believe there is a different terminal available with home-brew that some 
people says works better with VoiceOver. There is also a way to get EMACSpeak.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 26, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell 
>> prompt.
>> 
>> On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:
>>> Dear Jürgen,
>>> Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
>>> All best,
>>> Andrew
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: Using the terminal (was Re: basic finder question)

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,
The tab completions in the terminal are controlled by the shell being used. I 
believe Catalina is using an older bash, and that new accounts created with Big 
Sir and newer use zsh because of some licensing issues with the bash shell. 
Zsh can get quite complicated in configuring completions, but of course it will 
never match TOPS-20 command line where the "shell" (in quotes) communicated 
with command line applications and knew every switch and had a short 
description of every switch.
But I have digressed, pressing tab with either zsh or bash using default Mac 
settings will complete to aa command in the path for arg0 and will complete to 
a filename in additional arguments. If there are multiple matches, I can't 
remember if it just completes to where the multiple versions diverge and then 
beeps repeatedly as additional tabs are pressed, or if additional tabs will 
rotate through the various services. Certainly you should be able to grab your 
linux shell configurations and use them on the Mac with little changes, like 
library paths and paths.
Jonathan 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jun 26, 2022, at 20:35, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 Jun, 2022, at 20:03, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Perhaps I should ask this differently.
>> Can one move from the apple desktop into terminal using voiceover and work 
>> equally as well?
>> could I work in programs in the terminal using voiceover, just as I can use 
>> it  with programs in the main desktop?
> Yes, the terminal is treated as just another application so far as VoiceOver 
> is concerned.
>> I am not even sure what tab completion means in general, I do not personally 
>> use the tab key much outside of word processing.
> It’s a feature of the shell that completes partially typed commands and file 
> names. For example, if you had a directory named “documents” and you typed 
> “do”, then pressed the tab key, it would complete the rest of the name - 
> assuming that there are no other names beginning with “do”. Typically, 
> pressing the tab key twice gives you a list of names that match.
> 
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Using the terminal (was Re: basic finder question)

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

> On 26 Jun, 2022, at 20:03, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps I should ask this differently.
> Can one move from the apple desktop into terminal using voiceover and work 
> equally as well?
> could I work in programs in the terminal using voiceover, just as I can use 
> it  with programs in the main desktop?
Yes, the terminal is treated as just another application so far as VoiceOver is 
concerned.
> I am not even sure what tab completion means in general, I do not personally 
> use the tab key much outside of word processing.
It’s a feature of the shell that completes partially typed commands and file 
names. For example, if you had a directory named “documents” and you typed 
“do”, then pressed the tab key, it would complete the rest of the name - 
assuming that there are no other names beginning with “do”. Typically, pressing 
the tab key twice gives you a list of names that match.

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Re: basic finder question

[Karen Lewellen]

Perhaps I should ask this differently.
Can one move from the apple desktop into terminal using voiceover and work 
equally as well?
could I work in programs in the terminal using voiceover, just as I can 
use it  with programs in the main desktop?
I am not even sure what tab completion means in general, I do not 
personally use the tab key much outside of word processing.




On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:





On 26 Jun, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?

Well enough, at least, to manipulate files and directories efficiently, and to 
use tab completion.

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likely a silly question about the mac desktop.

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
One thing I am personally finding I seriously need is  basic keyboard 
typing practice.
On my main computers, because I have been using  them for so many years, I 
am a swift typist who is very very very  used to keeping my hands on the 
main keyboard and knowing where I am from a screen reader standpoint as 
well.
I am personally feeling that some time with either textedit, or pages, 
will let me just practice typing with no fear that I will set something 
off with the mac itself.
I want to be so solid with my typing that entering my password without 
input will be effortless, I doubt I can turn off having to provide his for 
my apple ID for example.
so, at this stage, what is the fastest way to load textedit?  say using 
the menu bar, if that is an option?
I will want to know as well how to keep certain programs I use often 
either in the finder, or in the menu,  bar, which ever   is most 
practical.
I am used to just typing whatever starts the program, I never used windows 
at all.

Ideas?
 Kare

Re: basic finder question

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

> On 26 Jun, 2022, at 19:44, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?
Well enough, at least, to manipulate files and directories efficiently, and to 
use tab completion.

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Re: slack and voiceover?

[Karen Lewellen]

Thanks everyone,
I would not be using it for work.  Instead my homemates use it as one 
means of  managing household details.

How does one get notified that there is a new message?



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, Mike Arrigo wrote:


Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the different 
parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.


On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

Hi all,
Anyone using slack with voiceover?
Just curious,
Karen




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Re: basic finder question

[Karen Lewellen]

And voiceover works flawlessly in terminal?



On Sun, 26 Jun 2022, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell 
prompt.


On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:

 Dear Jürgen,
 Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
 All best,
 Andrew



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Re: slack and voiceover?

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I’ve used it once or twice. It was needed for a couple of online events that I 
attended for work purposes.
I don’t recall any substantial accessibility issues. However, I didn’t use 
Slack extensively.

> On 26 Jun, 2022, at 17:09, Minh Ha  wrote:
> 
> I use it daily for work. I’m not a huge fan of it, but it does work well 
> enough to read messages in channels and sending messages. 
> 
> 
> Minh Ha
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2022, at 2:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
>> through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the 
>> different parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.
>> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> Anyone using slack with voiceover?
>>> Just curious,
>>> Karen
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: slack and voiceover?

[Minh Ha]

I use it daily for work. I’m not a huge fan of it, but it does work well enough 
to read messages in channels and sending messages. 


Minh Ha
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2022, at 2:20 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
> through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the 
> different parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> Anyone using slack with voiceover?
>> Just curious,
>> Karen
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: slack and voiceover?

[Mike Arrigo]

Yes, I use it every day at work, works very well, you can arrow up and down 
through the messages in a channel and the F6 key will move you to the different 
parts of the screen such as the side bar and channel list.

> On Jun 25, 2022, at 9:35 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Anyone using slack with voiceover?
> Just curious,
> Karen
> 
> 

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Re: basic finder question

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

The other option is to run Terminal and use the mv command at the shell 
prompt.


On 22/6/22 14:28, Andrew Leland wrote:

Dear Jürgen,
Thank you so much for this quick and extremely helpful reply!
All best,
Andrew



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Re: basic finder question

[Jeff Berwick]

When you are in the Finder and the folder you want, you can copy the file with 
[command] + [c].

Then, move to the folder you want to put the file in and issue the following 
command:

[command] + [option] + [v]

This moves the file from he first location to the second.

Hth,
Jeff


> On Jun 26, 2022, at 8:22 AM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> Actually, I open up terminal and then cd to the folder I want. In there, I 
> issue the command: mv file1 /path/to/folder/ and hit the enter key. It’s easy 
> peasy.
> 
> -Eric
> 
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2022, at 11:07 AM, Andrew Leland > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> I'm a lifelong sighted Mac user currently in the process of becoming a blind 
>> Mac user. I've also decided to learn JAWS (even though I would've never 
>> dream of switching to Windows otherwise) since I can't avoid MS Word in my 
>> work and I've been gobsmacked by how frequently Word for Mac stops working 
>> compared to Scrivener, which is my main workhorse word processor. (also 
>> finding some of the JAWS navigation, especially on the web, more reliable 
>> and intuitive than VoiceOver for MacOS).
>> 
>> Anyway none of this has anything to do with my question for you, which is as 
>> follows: 
>> 
>> is there any way to move items in the finder without just copying, deleting, 
>> then pasting in the new location? I know in Windows you can "cut" a file and 
>> then "paste" it elsewhere, removing this middle step of having to then go 
>> back and delete the file... I have half-heartedly tried reading the apple 
>> documentation about dragging and dropping with VoiceOver but I haven't had 
>> the courage to try. is it more efficient than copy file, paste file, delete 
>> file in the finder?
>> 
>> thanks, and thanks for including me in this group!
>> Andrew Leland
>> alel...@gmail.com 
>> 
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The archives for this 

Re: basic finder question

[Eric Oyen]

Actually, I open up terminal and then cd to the folder I want. In there, I 
issue the command: mv file1 /path/to/folder/ and hit the enter key. It’s easy 
peasy.

-Eric


> On Jun 22, 2022, at 11:07 AM, Andrew Leland  wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> I'm a lifelong sighted Mac user currently in the process of becoming a blind 
> Mac user. I've also decided to learn JAWS (even though I would've never dream 
> of switching to Windows otherwise) since I can't avoid MS Word in my work and 
> I've been gobsmacked by how frequently Word for Mac stops working compared to 
> Scrivener, which is my main workhorse word processor. (also finding some of 
> the JAWS navigation, especially on the web, more reliable and intuitive than 
> VoiceOver for MacOS).
> 
> Anyway none of this has anything to do with my question for you, which is as 
> follows: 
> 
> is there any way to move items in the finder without just copying, deleting, 
> then pasting in the new location? I know in Windows you can "cut" a file and 
> then "paste" it elsewhere, removing this middle step of having to then go 
> back and delete the file... I have half-heartedly tried reading the apple 
> documentation about dragging and dropping with VoiceOver but I haven't had 
> the courage to try. is it more efficient than copy file, paste file, delete 
> file in the finder?
> 
> thanks, and thanks for including me in this group!
> Andrew Leland
> alel...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: Voice Dream Reader for mac and Braille display

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Once again, thank you, Karen and others for the answers.  I have so much to 
learn.

Best wishes

Andrew

> On 23 Jun 2022, at 02:22, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> actually answering the second question as well.
> Lynx is a browser, and there is a compiled edition that, according to their 
> website works for mac os x.
> As stated, not only am I not using the mac for what I shared, working from 
> the idea that a mac browser could load a file, much as in Linux, but I am not 
> a braille user either.
> At the time of my writing this email, I am waiting to hear back from the Lynx 
> development list, the browser gets updated regularly, to confirm the last 
> edition of Macos the compiles are firm with.
> One member states that the compiles simple work, but I wish greater 
> confirmation for you.
> best,
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> 
>> Karen, May I ask what Lynx is and what its equivalent for mac is?
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>>> On 21 Jun 2022, at 22:25, Karen Lewellen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Andrew,
>>> Certainly.
>>> Let me preface that I am *not* using the mac to accomplish this task, but 
>>> cannot imagine why the process would not be comparative, its just a file.
>>> Also, for my own record keeping I tend to change the name when I save the 
>>> file to a .txt from the .XML source.
>>> 
>>> For my explanation lets pretend you have a copy of say John Steinbeck's 
>>> east of Eden.
>>> when the zip archive is unpacked then you will have several files that 
>>> contain the title, with proper capitalization, including one that says
>>> East_of_Eden.XML
>>> Again I unpack the zip file in its own directory or folder, so to avoid 
>>> confusion with other common files bookshare sends every time.
>>> once unpacked I simply type the file name into my browser.
>>> As I use a shell service based on Ubuntu Linux I have several lower 
>>> graphics options. To keep the explanation simple, I might type
>>> lynx east_of_Eden.XML
>>> I could even use a wildcard if the title is especially long, something like
>>> lynx East_*.XML
>>> the result is for me the same.
>>> my browser presents what is actually already a text edition of the file, 
>>> displaying XML, much as it displays .html files.
>>> because the browser also, when properly compiled even for the Mac, has the 
>>> option to save to a local file, or email the file, I can, after choosing 
>>> this command and saving the file to what I wish, say eastofe.txt
>>> You can choose whatever file name works for you, using .txt as the 
>>> extension.
>>> What happens next though depends on how you read regular text files with 
>>> your braille display.
>>> I suppose? in theory you could even read in your browser if desired.
>>> For the record, as shared, there is a mac edition of lynx, if actually 
>>> using the tool resonates.
>>> Sing out if you have more questions.
>>> Kare
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> 
 Karen,
 
 I’m intrigued by the way you deal with DAISY in this way. I wasn’t aware 
 that .xml file actually holds the text of the book so I didn’t dare play 
 with them. Could you describe the steps you take loading such files into 
 your browser? do I understand you correctly?
 
 Andrew
 
> On 21 Jun 2022, at 15:39, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Bookshare provides a format called Daisy text. In the zip archive is a 
> .XML file which is the actual text itself.
> i am not a braille user, but do wonder if you loaded the XML file into 
> something like tables if it could be read that way?
> Personally I take mine, load them into a browser, save them as text and 
> read them in my word processor.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2022, Julie Rattray wrote:
> 
>> Ah ok that makes sense I haven’t had a daisy for a while does it show 
>> the actual text
>> 
>>> On 21 Jun 2022, at 09:52, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>> >> >>  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>  >> 
>>> These are DAISY books from bookshare.org 
>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> Preview or some such.
>>> 
>>>