, it's just not too widespread (partially
because the orphaned packages that could cause problem are stuck in
testing) so we are in practice ignoring it.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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https
Niels to remove it, what if there are other packages depending on the
orphaned one, etc).
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Attila Csipa
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the community
side, there are only so many packages and projects I can support myself.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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...
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, a Maemo specific, that your dependencies
are right (because we RPATH the community versions of mobility).
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Attila Csipa
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Good news everyone,
There has been an update on the long road to QtSDK 1.1, but we're almost there
now - we got the RC today, and the final should not be that far away
http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/04/06/qt-sdk-1-1-rc-released/
The differences are mostly bugfixes considering the Maemo side,
dependencies, which are only available in the
SDK.
If you need -dev packages on end-user devices to be able to use the service,
you're doing/packaging it wrong. Are you sure Build-depends is not enough to
pick up whatever is needed ?
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
to hearing more from you.
* Qt Bug Tracker: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com
* Code/Doc contributions: http://qt.gitorious.org
* Mailing list: http://lists.qt.nokia.com/mailman/li...ility-feedback
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote:
Hi,
There are a couple of people with patches to Qt that they would like
to see included in the CSSU. However, unlike Maemo core, Forum Nokia
are actively maintaining the Maemo 5 Qt ecosystem (e.g. mcsp).
.
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Attila Csipa
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technical thing, does it
break/bork/confuse/conflict with something/policies or not. I can see how this
can be good for Extras in general, but not really how it would help the QA
hurdles.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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that much hairier than python contrary to what I expected from good
ole C++).
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Attila Csipa
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The tech preview of Qt SDK 1.1 has been released. This gives you tooling to
play with QML and QtQuick in general, a lot nicer IDE in general with a few
extra Maemo and Symbian goodies (yes, this one is an all-around SDK, no more
Nokia Qt SDK vs Qt SDK).
Best regards,
Attila
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Cornelius Hald h...@icandy.de wrote:
Doh, you're right, looks like I'm an old timer ;) Also looks like I have
to clean out my scratchbox. Just checked and the needed features are
in: /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/features and using CONFIG += mobility11 works
fine.
qtm libs (/usr/lib/qt4/plugins/contacts). Was that intentional or
am I missing something?
You're missing the fixed version that is being uploaded right now :) Paths are
still not perfect, but that will come in the next iteration.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
... and a happy new year !
We have kickstarted a community 'compatibility program' with a little Forum
Nokia help which will focus on bringing the latest Qt and related tech
tools/fixes/updates to developers, without having to worry about Nokia release
schedules and support status. The first
through to Extras as a compatibility measure later
on, depending on feedback and SSU content.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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Attila Csipa
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bugfix release, the same
qtm-11 packages will update to that. We should also have qtm-12 which
(currently) will follow releases, i.e. 1.2 techpreview, beta, etc.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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Oooh, just realized we're talking about *Diablo*. Let me check.
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:09 AM, Edward Page eop...@byu.net wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:58 AM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote:
This issue was due to some dependency/promotion issues which left PyQt in
a
half-promoted
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Edward Page eop...@byu.net wrote:
I've been working on porting DialCentral to Qt. I've got some users
wanting to test this out on Diablo but they are getting the following
error:
dialcentral_qt.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Robin Burchell virot...@viroteck.netwrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 11/12/2010 03:36 PM, Alberto Mardegan wrote:
Hi all,
did anyone try to run QtQuick applications in PR1.3?
I wrote sample.qml with these contents:
=
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Felipe Crochik fel...@crochik.com wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Almost there…. I don’t get a compilation error anymore but now my communi
package becomes dependent on libircclient-qt-dev (not libircclient-qt).
Maybe I got it the “lib” idea wrong: libircclient-qt and
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Felipe Crochik fel...@crochik.com wrote:
It seems that I am missing one (or some) piece(s) of the puzzle, I tried
downloading the libqfacebook and libqfacebook-dev packages using apt-get
source but it didn’t help at all. As far as I can tell the two packages
2010/9/24 Benoît HERVIER kher...@khertan.net
Does there is a way to know for an application from which package it come.
dpkg -S /opt/bin/app
Does it ll be accepted if like kisstester, i implements a dialog to
user to permit it to vote for my apps after presenting him the rules
of QA ?
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Polyvertex polyver...@gmail.com wrote:
Understood. That's only a part of my point.
My main concern is that users don't always vote and do feedbacks plus
the fact they currently don't know where to go if they want to. This
is a fact.
This problem cannot be
in the first place - if they can, they should
react to the lose-focus / screen off messages directly, not through
intermediary daemons, right ?
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Attila Csipa
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On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Polyvertex polyver...@gmail.com wrote:
After reading all related wiki pages on the subject, it seems that a
package can be unlocked for promotion from extras-testing to extras
only if :
* the testing package gained 10 positives votes from the community
* or
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Polyvertex polyver...@gmail.com wrote:
Indeed, I own a stuck package :)
I am, in a weird way, happy that people are now complaining about packages
being stuck for 15 days - as bad as it sounds, there were times where most
of the packages spent months in
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:
As many of you go, Nokia Qt SDK uses, through MADDE, a special
'developer' account (with it's own home directory) to do stuff on the
device
That means that it doesn't use the information (databases etc.) stored
in
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Sivan Greenberg si...@omniqueue.comwrote:
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote:
the less dangerous path. Some sort of clone/restore user data to
developer
account *could* be useful though.
How hard will it be to copy stuff
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs wrote:
If there are no components that work with hardcoded usernames od
uid/gids,
that would roughly be it (for files, which are the most common
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Polyvertex polyver...@gmail.com wrote:
I think the maintainer should always have the ability to promote the
package to extras by himself and take the risk of being under fire
from users if he promote a very bad/bugged release and did not took
enough time to
feedback means
good feedback'.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Polyvertex polyver...@gmail.com wrote:
If I am a lambda user, I just want to get applications on my phone and
don't want to spent time for downloading an another application B to
note or vote for application A.
I personally have no problem with that. I
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Robin Burchell virot...@viroteck.netwrote:
Anyway: this was pretty much in keeping with my idea: move it into the task
switcher (hildon-desktop/other) so that applications which are moved to
background are stopped (unless they signal for whatever reason that
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Andre Klapper aklap...@openismus.comwrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 15.09.2010, 17:18 +0800 schrieb Jianzhong Li:
My environment is latest version scratchbox with Maemo5 SDK
rootstrap is http://repository.maemo.org/stable/f...p_5.0_i386.tgz
nokia libraries and
is it?
We got the ball rolling with the people in charge and hopefully the solution
will be in place soon. Track progress at:
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10450
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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solution
and native level DBUS solution is of course still preferred by far, but if you
don't have that time or luxury (or are blessed with SDL code or similar), this
might come handy.
Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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2010/9/5 Benoît HERVIER kher...@khertan.net
I confirm some still have problem running Vectormine which depends on
pygame, which depends on numpy which depends on libsdl-ttf2 :)
Libsdl-ttf2, the root of all evil :) Anyway, as said, will poke some people
so we have the issue resolved one
to be the
correct name because it is used in Debian). These packages are of course
conflicting and older packages depend on Extras package and newer on Nokia
package. Attila Csipa handled this issue in earlier mail.
Extras maintainer has updated his package to a dummy package which depends
on Nokia
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:
The concept is so obvious, it has probably been discussed to death
many times over -
Should we have some central place to showcase maemo / meego
applications, wherever they are?
Well, the original attempt was Maemo
On Saturday 21 August 2010 20:39:54 Ian Stirling wrote:
I've been ignoring these packages.
In addition to the above - there are several other packages which won't
run meaningfully without external data - game engines, with often no
link or mention of where this other data can be found in the
I see we have a few apps (especially ports and stuff using SDL) that do not
know how to suspend themselves and therefore it fails the QA. Now, the problem
is that often it is non-trivial to fix/support this, and it's not that easy to
point people to the right resources (due to the number of
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Aapo Rantalainen
aapo.rantalai...@gmail.com wrote:
I see we have a few apps (especially ports and stuff using SDL) that do
not
know how to suspend themselves and therefore it fails the QA. Now, the
problem
is that often it is non-trivial to fix/support
On Monday 16 August 2010 12:43:02 Andrew Flegg wrote:
1) A daemon which applications could register their process ID with,
when the display locks they would be forcefully SIGSTOPped.
Even with that premise, I'd go for super-simple - like using dpkg triggers.
The packages in question
Can someone help me with this package ? It seems that we have a libsdl-
ttf2.0-0 in Extras (listing the pymaemo team as maintainers), but also a
libsdl-ttf2.0 in the Nokia repositories (listing Karoliina Salminen of Nokia
as the maintainer). As suggested starting with libqt4, no stable official
On Monday 02 August 2010 20:38:11 Eino-Ville Talvala wrote:
With the idea that fcam-drivers is preferred since it's a real package,
and fcam-power-drivers only used in case fcam-drivers conflicts?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Off the top of my head, I would do something like:
On Friday 06 August 2010 01:19:55 Robin Burchell wrote:
Is there any reason why libqtm-dev doesn't deppend on libqtm-sensors?
Why would it? libqtm-dev is a headers package for the whole of Qt Mobility
for applications to build against, libqtm-sensors is a binary package of
the mobility
Forwarded from the Maemo Community Council blog:
After receiving feedback from the community, including developers who are
trying to get their software into Ovi Store, it is the opinion of the Council
that the unexplained restriction on dependencies between Ovi and Extras - and
in particular
Just to let people know, our Nokian friends uploaded a new iteration of the
Web Runtime preview to extras-devel. There is a slight change in the
nomenclature, though, as we (maemo.org) requested an -experimental tag added
to the package name, to avoid later clashes with potential official
On Wednesday 21 July 2010 17:10:11 Attila Csipa wrote:
(in fact, it would be cool to see what *exactly* the Qt Ovi QA
requirements are, not just generic descriptions - if someone has a link,
I'd be grateful).
FWIW, I got a link:
http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ovi-publisher-alert/2010/08
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 17:30:13 Eero Tamminen wrote:
I just bumped in bugs.maemo.org into an issue resulting from
the bg activity by gPodder and some other apps.
Still, what Extras QA, as a crowdsourced effort can do in that regard is rather
limited. The number of people who are able to do
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 23:41:07 Andrea Grandi wrote:
after you have updated QtMobility packages to 1.0.2 in official Maemo
repositories, you should update also the version distributed with
Nokia SDK.
We're also eagerly awaiting the libqtm-experimental-* v1.1 packages :)
Regards,
Attila
On Thursday 22 July 2010 02:35:47 Ian Stirling wrote:
Note that since not long ago we also have super-testers, people with
proven track records, it's enough to get three of their votes if your
package is stuck and you're good to go.
Where is the super-testers list?
I've tested a few apps
On Thursday 22 July 2010 10:40:51 Ville M. Vainio wrote:
As it appears, rabbit hole goes deeper than initially expected, so
don't hold your breath on getting the issue fixed in reasonable
timeframe :-/.
Just as a side-note - can we work on making at least the Ovi QA criteria
public so that we
On Thursday 22 July 2010 00:19:20 Felipe Crochik wrote:
I added a message to the download assistant thread but never received a
reply. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=717824postcount=17
Maybe someone knows the maintainer or what is behind the scenes and can
find out if it is a viable
On Wednesday 21 July 2010 08:13:27 Marius Vollmer wrote:
ext Sascha Mäkelä sascha.mak...@gmail.com writes:
OK. If Ovi Store for paid apps is no using a repository, then what about
using preinst script or something to install the dependencies?
You unfortunately can't run dpkg recursively and
On Wednesday 21 July 2010 16:52:16 you wrote:
This means application won't work without having connection after
installation and I guess Qvi Store QA is good enough to find that and
reject the application. Moreover, you would need root permissions to
? Requiring network connectivity on it's
On Wednesday 21 July 2010 22:53:43 Roman Morawek wrote:
P.S.: You are welcome to evaluate and vote on my package:
Indeed, the best strategy for developers is to lobby a bit for their
application. Open a thread on talk.maemo.org . Blog about it. Write to the
list. I hope the fellow devs won't
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:
Some time ago there was talk about removing the old junk from
extras-devel, in order to make app manager faster.
What happened to that idea? Do we still have hope of this happening?
It’s already happening
On Wednesday 26 May 2010 17:21:42 Felipe Crochik wrote:
The WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation only tells the device that you want this
application to autorotate but the user still needs to press the shortcut
(I have the worst time with my fat fingers) to activate/deactivate it. And
IIUC the two are
On Wednesday 26 May 2010 19:04:49 Paul Hartman wrote:
Now that we've got PR1.2 for N900, I'm trying to follow the
instructions for the Qt SDK beta release in the Maemo readme file
included with it. It says to install qt-mobility-examples but it
appears to have been removed from the repository
On Wednesday 26 May 2010 20:14:22 Andrea Grandi wrote:
But why transition could not be smooth? Why not to wait with removal
before package is really available in Fremantle repository?
I see it as an act of disrespect towards the community.
not only for the community, but for developers
On Wednesday 26 May 2010 22:15:15 Antonio Aloisio wrote:
Calm down! Mobility packages for scratchbox are in Tools and the pkgs for
the device are in Nokia Application repositories.
Both are enabled by default, developers and users don't need to add them.
Ah, there you go, nothing better than
On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Javier S. Pedro ma...@javispedro.com wrote:
3. Qt Desktop guarantees that an application built under Qt 4.5 headers
is binary compatible with Qt 4.6 libs. I'd like to know if we can guarantee
that an application built under Qt 4.6 headers but using no Qt 4.5
On Friday 21 May 2010 07:06:35 Ville M. Vainio wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Felipe Crochik fel...@crochik.com wrote:
As today what a developer needs to do to get an application that uses qt
to the end user? Is there a way to tell the autobuilder to compile
against the 4.5 qt and
On Friday 21 May 2010 01:42:43 you wrote:
1.As today what a developer needs to do to get an application that
uses qt to the end user? Is there a way to tell the autobuilder to compile
against the 4.5 qt and make the package only depend on it?
In theory you just depend on the proper version
On Friday 21 May 2010 15:26:01 Felipe Crochik wrote:
I actually find the Xephyr/Scratchbox/x86 phase helpful during the
development. I like being able to just test the changes on a window on my
desktop instead of having to get the device. Do you know if it is
possible/easy to setup Qt SDK to
Foreword: the Qt versioning mismatch problem is not strictly the consequence
of the PR1.2 delay, it is mainly the result of the packaging choice of how Qt
gets updated to newer versions.
On Thursday 20 May 2010 15:26:46 Felipe Crochik wrote:
- If you use the old standard 4.5.3
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Felipe Crochik fel...@crochik.com wrote:
I thought the only difference was on where the libraries got installed.
Isn't it? On a follow up question: Why do
the Qt applications have to know where the qt libraries are? Wouldn't be
better/easier if they would look
On 5/20/10, Felipe Crochik
fel...@crochik.comh/1tqlt06b4so7k/?v=bcs=whto=fel...@crochik.com
wrote:
Isn't the Qt version on PR 1.2 supposed to be 4.6.2 (the same we have on
qt4-maemo5 and scratchbox right now)? I can't remember where I read this
but
No way of knowing until PR1.2 actually hits
On Monday 17 May 2010 09:11:01 Andrew Flegg wrote:
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 08:06, Thomas Schmidt tschm...@debian.org wrote:
Am Montag, den 17.05.2010, 00:38 +0300 schrieb Adrian Yanes:
I was thinking in the last weeks, to implement some mechanism/system
to have stats of Maemo Repositories.
On Monday 17 May 2010 14:36:02 Adrian Yanes wrote:
A dump of this database will be useful for me and I guess that for someone
else.
Could be it possible?
If you are tracking this numbers for a long time, maybe we can find
some interesting numbers there.
Sent (it's a bit biggish and waay
On Tuesday 11 May 2010 16:14:38 SC wrote:
Can someone please provide some basic pyqt localization examples or point
me to some?
I know I can use the tr(...) method but where should the actual
translations be kept?
See http://doc.trolltech.com/4.6/qtranslator.html for details (it works the
Did anyone have problems with autobuilder optification lately ? On user
request, I have just dropped 'auto' into the debian/optify file as usual to
some of the bigger packages, but to my surprise the package went through the
autobuilder unoptified. Niels gave it a cursory look and apparently
[Maemo community council hat]
One of the big changes PR1.2 brought us is official Qt support in the form of
Q4.6 in the Nokia SDK and repositories. This change affects all applications
depending on Qt currently in extras-devel. We had some talks with Qt/Nokia
folks about Qt-related repository
On Monday 29 March 2010 08:07:06 Marius Vollmer wrote:
all the good stuff in them, because they know that these repositories
are well-maintained and backed by a community: packages are not
abandoned, and they can expect them to be updated when necessary.
Yes, we have not talked about this much
On Monday 29 March 2010 13:13:14 you wrote:
With the current state of extras-devel, long term availability is hardly
a point that should be raised against other repositories. At least the
source is available.
I feel this is more to the fact that very few people use 3rd party
repositories and
On Thursday 25 March 2010 20:34:40 Urho Konttori wrote:
I would propose the following as the first step to improve the support for
the community developers:
if a component X has been successfully promoted to extras once, when there
is an update from the same developer for this component, it
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Andrew Flegg and...@bleb.org wrote:
requirement IF and ONLY IF you choose to provide the sources through a
written offer (instead of accompanying the binaries through neighbouring
links, which is actually what maemo.org does).
However, I think that link is
On Tuesday 23 March 2010 16:58:32 Tomasz Rybak wrote:
So what is reason for HAM to leave configuration when uninstalling
packages (removing them but not purging)?
I'm not sure how the HAM prompts (or doesn't) for config file conflicts, but
for more generic insight about conffile upgrades take
On Monday 22 March 2010 11:56:43 Robin Burchell wrote:
While I wish there was another way to fix this, I don't think Khertan
has mismanaged this in any way - he reported the bugs, he followed up
on it, and has been met with silence on issues that annoy and
frustrate the extras packaging
On Monday 22 March 2010 17:23:11 Tomi Ollila wrote:
1: Separate repo for every software release; It would be even better
if this can be variableized in sources.list files (I don't see
such a feature in /etc/apt/sources.list; on the other hand for example
/etc/yum.repos.d/fedora.repo there is
On Tuesday 23 March 2010 00:39:09 Darren Long wrote:
However, in the general case where the source and the executable are not
the same, I believe that maemo.org would be obliged to continue to make the
source available, for at least 3 years.
Now, I might just be grossly misinformed or
On Tuesday 23 March 2010 01:00:19 Gary Birkett wrote:
why doesn't HAM allow somebody to use a later provided version from Beniots
own repository?
there would be nothing wrong with leaving everything existing and Beniot
can get what he wants by still offering users the opportunity to add his
On Friday 19 March 2010 09:16:14 Frantisek Dufka wrote:
I don't know if there is some high level api but a lot of things can be
done either via framebuffer ioctl or via changing stuff in
/sys/dev/ices/platform/omapdss/ see
On Thursday 18 March 2010 20:17:16 Andrew Flegg wrote:
XSBC-Bugtracker: mailto:kher...@khertan.net
...and that the bug is that it is output as a
href=kher...@khertan.net which was the value of the control file
field in an earlier version of the package?
In retrospect, I think that the
On Friday 12 March 2010 08:36:19 Marius Vollmer wrote:
ext Attila Csipa ma...@csipa.in.rs writes:
There are probably many better ways to do this, but a quick and dirty
solution would be to remove the icon from the older version in the repo
when a new version is pushed to the repo.
What
On Friday 12 March 2010 12:42:11 you wrote:
From all the
available versions of a package, apt selects one upfront as the
candidate and then sticks with that. The only decision it makes is
between installing that candidate version, keeping the version you have
already installed, or removing
Foreword: I know how deeply ingrained these things are. Just drawing attention
so hopefully this gets resolved at least by the time a Harmattan device hits
the shelves.
Extras-devel grew to massive proportions due to the flurry of activity by
developers, which is good to see. This also brings
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 09:22:49 Alberto Mardegan wrote:
I agree with Graham: I'd like the quarantine process to be only about
critical problems, such as app not being optified, making the device
unstable or not meeting some basic formal criteria (such as bugtracker
link).
It is that way :)
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 08:27:34 Tim Teulings wrote:
I think initialy (and hopefully still) extras was not about good or bad
software, its was about software that does not break your device (and
does what it told). That is what QA must try to target. Comments about
usability, spelling
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 13:01:32 Edward Page wrote:
Will this be like government regulations where they increase year to
year and we have to jump through more hoops all the time just to
continue to have the honor of being in Extras?
The solution to this is to work on two fronts - not just
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 10:02:19 you wrote:
In the current system after the dev promotes the package to testing, all he
can do is to hope that everything is OK. If it's not, he has to promote new
package and everything starts from zero again. I don't think this good
enough for anyone
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 11:56:49 Matan Ziv-Av wrote:
On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, Niels Breet wrote:
You have to see that Extras should be for applications that are of a high
quality. The Extras repository should not give any problems to people who
are new to Maemo and have no clue how to work with
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 13:19:33 Simon Pickering wrote:
Also, the idea that an application can both be low quality and end
user ready is a bizarre.
I completely agree with Graham Cobb here, Extras should contain apps
that work no matter how pretty or poorly spelled they are.
To repeat
On Tuesday 09 March 2010 14:26:51 Dave Neary wrote:
If the burden on the testers developers continues to grow, we will see
a return to distribution in the wild, and away from Extras, which would
be a disaster for Maemo. Bringing all the 3rd party repositories
together and making Extras the
On Monday 08 March 2010 16:21:13 Benoît HERVIER wrote:
- It s look like some users are here just to put thumb down just to
gain some karma.
To elaborate on this a bit...
The mass-downthumbing people might see is just a temporary (?) solution to
optimize testing resources. The idea is that it
On Monday 08 March 2010 18:43:02 Graham Cobb wrote:
Anyway, let's leave the screenshots issue for a separate discussion!
Separated
On a side note I would make screenshots (where applicable) also mandatory
for promotion to -testing, on the same grounds as a bugtracker, but the
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