Re: [Mailman-Users] periodic shunts might have been undetected bad bounce_matching_headers

2017-08-30 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/30/2017 08:36 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It appears the 'from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog' line is missing.
> 
> Yes, it's missing.  Well analysed without seeing it, Thanks !  
> So I patched just that line in.  
> Mailman 2.1.22 source misses that line. 2.1.23 2.1.24 have it.


This is a bug introduced in 2.1.21, never noticed and inadvertently
fixed in 2.1.23. Presumably, it was never noticed before now because it
was introduced with the member verbosity feature and only triggered if
Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_verbosity_threshold is
set greater than the default 0 and a "verbose" member is actually set to
moderated.


> 2.1.23/NEWS has "Bug Fixes and other patches" ... SpamDetect.py


But that is in the 2.1.16 section of NEWS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for subscribes/unsubscribes

2017-08-30 Thread Terry . 
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply, and no problem with the delayed response.  I knew you 
were away from a note you left.

I don't know what a DSN looks like, but there is only that 1 attachment.

Below is the whole thing including headers and unsubscribe email attachment.

BTW, does this list allow me to attach files?  Might do that next time.

I've obfuscated some parts with "XXX".  Here it is.  See more comments below 
the email.


Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: te...@xxx.net
Received: from serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com
by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with LMTP id gHWCD8eMplm6SwAA9jRSrA
for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
Return-path: 
Envelope-to: te...@xxx.net
Delivery-date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=58524 helo=serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com)
by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.89)
(envelope-from )
id 1dmznb-00069e-4b
for te...@xxx.net; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=58490 helo=serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com)
 by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.89)
 (envelope-from )
 id 1dmznZ-000681-Me
 for all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:37 -0500
Subject: Bounce action notification
From: mail...@rivexxx.org.nz
To: all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===4320979077890092118=="
Message-ID: 
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:36 -0500
Precedence: list
X-BeenThere: a...@rivexxx.org.nz
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23
List-Id: RLC All 
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Errors-To: mailman-boun...@serverxxx.webhostingbuzz.com
Sender: "ALL" 

--===4320979077890092118==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

List:   ALL
Member: te...@xxx.net
Action: Subscription bounce score incremented.
Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.



The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mail...@rivexxx.org.nz.

--===4320979077890092118==
Content-Type: message/rfc822
MIME-Version: 1.0

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: ALL unsubscribe notification
From: mailman-boun...@rivexxx.org.nz
To: all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz
Precedence: list
Message-ID: 
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:35 -0500
X-BeenThere: a...@rivexxx.org.nz
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23
List-Id: RLC All 
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Errors-To: mailman-boun...@rivexxx.org.nz
Sender: "ALL" 

x...@xxxtraining.co.nz has been removed from ALL.


--===4320979077890092118==--


That's the end of it.


In this case my email address is both the owner and an UNmoderated member of 
the list, but I get the same problem when the owner address is not a member of 
the list at all.  If I click my email address link from the Membership List 
page, it says this near the top, in case it is relevant:


"We have received some recent bounces from your address. Your current bounce 
score is 2.0 out of a maximum of 20.0. Please double check that your subscribed 
address is correct and that there are no problems with delivery to this 
address. Your bounce score will be automatically reset if the problems are 
corrected soon."


Also, sometimes I might receive emails relating to subscribes but not 
unsubscribes.

I think all these problems started happening in the last year or so, on lists 
which I've had for years without such problems.

Some of my lists still don't seem to have any of these problems, but I haven't 
worked out what's different about them yet.


I can delete & recreate a list as a test, if required.


Thanks Mark.

Terry


From: Mark Sapiro 
Sent: 29 August 2017 10:09
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for 
subscribes/unsubscribes

Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been away.

On 08/18/2017 08:11 PM, Terry . wrote:
>
> But in recent months I’ve noticed that, as list owner, when I subscribe or 
> unsubscribe someone, instead of just receiving an email with the subject:
> “ subscription notification”
> or:
> “ unsubscribe notification”
> I receive an email with the subject:
> “Bounce action notification”
> Which contains:
>
> “This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>
> List:   Bro   [for example]
>
> Member: mylistadminaddr...@mydomain.com   [for example]
>
> Action:

[Mailman-Users] How to change the mailman admin email domain

2017-08-30 Thread Milos Cuculovic 
I installed Mailman 2.1.16 today on Ubuntu 14.04.
We are using the email domain lists.xxx.com which worshippers well for mailing 
lists, however the main domain I am using for normal email is xxx.com.
The problem arises when trying to contact Mailman admin following this 
instruction:

“If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mail...@lists.xxx.com.” 

Is there a possibility to setup the xxx.com domain for this sentence, or if 
not, make an alias so that mail...@lists.xxx.com is forwarded to mail...@xxx.com

Milos Cuculovic
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Re: [Mailman-Users] periodic shunts might have been undetected bad bounce_matching_headers

2017-08-30 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 08/30/2017 08:36 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> It appears the 'from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog' line is missing.
> > 
> > Yes, it's missing.  Well analysed without seeing it, Thanks !  
> > So I patched just that line in.  
> > Mailman 2.1.22 source misses that line. 2.1.23 2.1.24 have it.
> 
> 
> This is a bug introduced in 2.1.21, never noticed and inadvertently
> fixed in 2.1.23. Presumably, it was never noticed before now because it
> was introduced with the member verbosity feature and only triggered if
> Privacy options... -> Sender filters -> member_verbosity_threshold is
> set greater than the default 0 and a "verbose" member is actually set to
> moderated.

2.1.24 has defaults 0 300.  My most troublesome list had max 5/week =
member_verbosity_threshold: 5
member_verbosity_interval:  604800  
which may have occasionaly triggered correctly, but at least one
of the shunted people was someone who very rarely posts so at least that
shunt was unintended by traffic criteria.


> > 2.1.23/NEWS has "Bug Fixes and other patches" ... SpamDetect.py
> 
> But that is in the 2.1.16 section of NEWS.

Oh yes, I hadn't noticed it was in an old section.
So this is a till now undocumented old fix :-)

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich
 Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] periodic shunts might have been undetected bad bounce_matching_headers

2017-08-30 Thread Julian H. Stacey 
Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 08/29/2017 03:59 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> 
> > Now I have:
> > # Note that leading whitespace is trimmed from the regexp.  This can be
> > # circumvented in a number of ways, e.g. by escaping or bracketing it.
> > bounce_matching_headers = """
> > # Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
> > to: fri...@public.com
> > message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
> > from: l...@listme.com
> > from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""
> > 
> > ## Bounce options
> > before it was
> > # Note that leading whitespace is trimmed from the regexp.  This can be
> > # circumvented in a number of ways, e.g. by escaping or bracketing it.
> > bounce_matching_headers = """# Lines that *start* with a '#' are 
> > comments.
> > to: fri...@public.com
> > message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
> > from: l...@listme.com
> > from: .*@uplinkpro.com"""
> 
> Actually, the only difference between the two is "Now" has a leading
> blank line which won't make any difference as blank lines are ignored.

OK,


> >> What is the traceback from the 'shunt' message in Mailman's error log?
> > 
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error
> >   (Aside: I also spotted a few other unassociated errors such as Hostile
> >   listname: & fixed pages that pointed to non existant local Mailman list 
> > names)
> > 
> > All my remaining errors now seem to be the same sort:
> > 
> > NameError: global name 'syslog' is not defined
> > 
> > Aug 23 13:37:16 2017 (82399) SHUNTING: 
> > 1503488012.441064+20509f89ec545c49966a4f1d747c804ea1df5852
> > Aug 24 20:56:44 2017 (18093) Uncaught runner exception: global name 
> > 'syslog' is not defined
> > Aug 24 20:56:44 2017 (18093) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 119, in 
> > _oneloop
> > self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 190, in 
> > _onefile
> > keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, 
> > in _dispose
> > more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, 
> > in _dopipeline
> > sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 136, 
> > in process
> > syslog('vette',
> > NameError: global name 'syslog' is not defined
> > 
> > Aug 24 20:56:44 2017 (18093) SHUNTING: 
> > 1503601003.748515+0146d084002ddd93cacadc41656c7632efc83301
> > 
> > /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py line 136
> > syslog('vette',
> > '%s: Automatically Moderated %s for verbose postings.',
> >  mlist.real_name, sender)
> > 
> > Line 34:from Mailman import mm_cfg
> 
> 
> That and the next few lines should be
> 
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> from Mailman import Errors
> from Mailman import i18n
> from Mailman import Utils
> from Mailman.Handlers.Hold import hold_for_approval
> from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
> 
> 
> It appears the 'from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog' line is missing.

Yes, it's missing.  Well analysed without seeing it, Thanks !  
So I patched just that line in.  
Mailman 2.1.22 source misses that line. 2.1.23 2.1.24 have it.

2.1.23/NEWS has "Bug Fixes and other patches" ... SpamDetect.py
I'd best upgrade from 2.1.22 to 2.1.24 when I can monitor traffic after.  

I checked in case anything else missing, but all seems OK :-)
  I compared 2.1.22 & 2.1.24, all Handlers/*.py , & SpamDetect.py is
  the only one varying between versions with Mailman.Logging.Syslog .
  Various other Handlers/*.py do not have Mailman.Logging.Syslog
  in 2.1.22 & 2.1.24, but this quick check passes:
cd /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers
grep -l syslog *.py > ~/tmp/1
grep -l Mailman.Logging.Syslog *.py > ~/tmp/2
cmp ~/tmp/1 ~/tmp/2
  (But I don't know Python, & not considered other directories, includes, libs).

Thanks Mark!

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the mailman admin email domain

2017-08-30 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/30/2017 05:11 AM, Milos Cuculovic wrote:
> I installed Mailman 2.1.16 today on Ubuntu 14.04.

You'd be much better off installing 2.1.24 from source. See
 for the source and
 for installatipon help.


> We are using the email domain lists.xxx.com which worshippers well for 
> mailing lists, however the main domain I am using for normal email is xxx.com.

"works well" ?


> The problem arises when trying to contact Mailman admin following this 
> instruction:
> 
> “If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
> mail...@lists.xxx.com.” 
> 
> Is there a possibility to setup the xxx.com domain for this sentence, or if 
> not, make an alias so that mail...@lists.xxx.com is forwarded to 
> mail...@xxx.com


mail...@lists.xxx.com is the posting address for the "mailman" site
list. Configure that list to accept non-member posts and subscribe the
addresses that you want to receive that mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] "Bounce action notification" emails for subscribes/unsubscribes

2017-08-30 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/30/2017 03:45 AM, Terry . wrote:
> 
> Below is the whole thing including headers and unsubscribe email attachment.
> 
> BTW, does this list allow me to attach files?  Might do that next time.


You can attach files, but only plain text (MIME types text/plain and
text/x-diff) will make it to the list.


> I've obfuscated some parts with "XXX".  Here it is.  See more comments below 
> the email.
> 
> 
> Return-Path: 
> Delivered-To: te...@xxx.net
> Received: from serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com
> by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with LMTP id gHWCD8eMplm6SwAA9jRSrA
> for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
> Return-path: 
> Envelope-to: te...@xxx.net
> Delivery-date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=58524 helo=serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com)
> by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.89)
> (envelope-from )
> id 1dmznb-00069e-4b
> for te...@xxx.net; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:39 -0500
> Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=58490 helo=serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com)
>  by serverXXX.webhostingbuzz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.89)
>  (envelope-from )
>  id 1dmznZ-000681-Me
>  for all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:37 -0500
> Subject: Bounce action notification
> From: mail...@rivexxx.org.nz
> To: all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===4320979077890092118=="
> Message-ID: 
> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:36 -0500
> Precedence: list
> X-BeenThere: a...@rivexxx.org.nz
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23
> List-Id: RLC All 
> X-List-Administrivia: yes
> Errors-To: mailman-boun...@serverxxx.webhostingbuzz.com
> Sender: "ALL" 
> 
> --===4320979077890092118==
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
> 
> List:   ALL
> Member: te...@xxx.net
> Action: Subscription bounce score incremented.
> Reason: Excessive or fatal bounces.
> 
> 
> 
> The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
> 
> Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
> mail...@rivexxx.org.nz.
> 
> --===4320979077890092118==
> Content-Type: message/rfc822
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Subject: ALL unsubscribe notification
> From: mailman-boun...@rivexxx.org.nz
> To: all-ow...@rivexxx.org.nz
> Precedence: list
> Message-ID: 
> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:00:35 -0500
> X-BeenThere: a...@rivexxx.org.nz
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23
> List-Id: RLC All 
> X-List-Administrivia: yes
> Errors-To: mailman-boun...@rivexxx.org.nz
> Sender: "ALL" 
> 
> x...@xxxtraining.co.nz has been removed from ALL.
> 
> 
> --===4320979077890092118==--
> 
> 
> That's the end of it.
> 
> 
> In this case my email address is both the owner and an UNmoderated member of 
> the list, but I get the same problem when the owner address is not a member 
> of the list at all.


This is very strange. First of all, the "Bounce action notification"
notice about

> Member: te...@xxx.net
> Action: Subscription bounce score incremented.

should only occur when te...@xxx.net is a member of the list; never when
it's not.

Also, the notice you post has only two MIME parts; the text/plain notice
and the message/rfc822 message that bounced part. This latter part
should normally be the DSN (Delivery Status Notification), not the
message that bounced. Thus, it appears that this message is somehow
being processed as a bounce instead of being sent to the owner.

I would like to see all of the MTA (Exim) log messages relating to the
messages with Message-IDs
 and
.

Also, Mailman's bounce, smtp and smtp-failure log messages from around
Wed, 30 Aug 2017 04:45 to 05:01 may help.

Although, this appears to be cPanel, so you may not have access to these
things - see  .


> If I click my email address link from the Membership List page, it says this 
> near the top, in case it is relevant:
> 
> 
> "We have received some recent bounces from your address. Your current bounce 
> score is 2.0 out of a maximum of 20.0. Please double check that your 
> subscribed address is correct and that there are no problems with delivery to 
> this address. Your bounce score will be automatically reset if the problems 
> are corrected soon."


That's normal.


--

Re: [Mailman-Users] periodic shunts might have been undetected bad bounce_matching_headers

2017-08-30 Thread Mark Sapiro 
On 08/30/2017 05:13 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> 
> 2.1.24 has defaults 0 300.  My most troublesome list had max 5/week =
>   member_verbosity_threshold: 5
>   member_verbosity_interval:  604800  
> which may have occasionaly triggered correctly, but at least one
> of the shunted people was someone who very rarely posts so at least that
> shunt was unintended by traffic criteria.


With the bug, the shunting will occur whenever a member's moderate flag
is set for verbosity. The exception occurs after the flag is set in the
attempt to log the fact.

Note that with the above settings on the list flagging doesn't require
>5 posts to this list within a week, but >5 posts combined to all lists
with member_verbosity_threshold > 0.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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