Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thursday 21 January 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify itself, we can only guess at what might work. X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Seems to be the most consistently used. I found examples in my personal archives of a gated list going back as far as 2003. Googling the header gets hits as recent as last month so it is still in use. They also add an, X-Complaints-To: header in the form of X-Complaints-To: usenet@'something'.gmane.org Where 'something' can be main, sea, or ger. Also various path headers and usually a message ID. None of these seem consistant enough to use for filtering. -- William -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Yea, ArchRunner is running:
[r...@bushlms01 archive]# ps -eaf | grep -i arch
mailman 2090 2077 0 Jan20 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive is empty:
[r...@bushlms01 archive]# pwd
/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive
[r...@bushlms01 archive]# ls -l
total 0
I'll put in to have Mailman brought up to 2.1.x during a maintenance
window. 2.1.13 appears to be the latest in the 2.1.x series, would that
be the one to go with now?
Any other thoughts? Python version issues with archiving?
-Original Message-
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:m...@msapiro.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:46 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org; Young, Darren
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Young, Darren wrote:
Not much, close in all of them:
As I said in another recent reply - If I had a nickel for every time
I
didn't realize the obvious ... :)
Is ArchRunner running? What's in /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive?
The only one that sticks out but was earlier:
Jan 20 12:47:42 2009 (9809) admin.py access for non-existent list:
daily-job-postings
Jan 20 12:47:50 2009 (9813) admin.py access for non-existent list:
daily-job-postings
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): Traceback (most recent call
last):
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner, line 270, in ?
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): main()
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner, line 230, in main
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): qrunner.run()
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 87, in run
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._cleanup()
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py, line 220, in
_cleanup
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py, line 132, in
_cleanup
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): self._register_bounces()
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py, line 120, in
_register_bounces
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): mlist.registerBounce(addr,
msg,
day=day)
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): File
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py, line 131, in registerBounce
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',
day +
(0,)*6))
Jan 20 12:34:52 2010 qrunner(7726): ValueError : day of year out of
range
This is an incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.5 and older and Python
2.4.x and newer. If you can't upgrade Mailman, the attached
Bouncer.py.patch will fix it.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Just picking up on something, did you enable archiving before a post has been sent; i.e., has archiving been set before 1 message has been sent to the list? Yep, it was enabled first. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, snip Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? The gateway Mailman - Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane - Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify itself, we can only guess at what might work. Well, looking for gmane headers on a post gives me something like... Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: n...@gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: Xref: news.gmane.org ... Archived-At: http://permalink.gmane.org/listname I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't from legitimate subscribers. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Jan 21, 2010, at 02:26 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: I am not sure whether you could get/see the source code for either of these BUT in any case they might give you a few ideas. Even though not exactly what we have been discussing. http://henmedia.de/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=15Itemid=35 and.. http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/ Thanks for the links John. -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Can you help me?
Your help please. I'm trying to use this tool through hostgator and have set-up and email list; however, it won't let me do anything with it because it says. What does this mean and what should I do, or can you direct me to documentation. Thank you! There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html mailing lists on tierockies.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the right list name appended. If you have the proper authority, you can also create a new mailing list http://tierockies.org/mailman/create . General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page http://tierockies.org/mailman/listinfo . (Send questions and comments to mail...@tierockies.org.) Best always, Melodie Reagan, Talent Executive Auro|miraR Your Partner for Talent Teams, Contract Staffing Recruitment. o 303.554.0958 | m 720.253.3736 | f 303.600.0026 | mailto:mrea...@auromira.com mrea...@auromira.com | mailto:mrea...@auromira.com www.auromira.com (LinkedIn: www.linkedin/in/auromira Invite Me!) 2010 Chairman, TiE-Rockies, a chapter of the largest organization fostering entrepreneurship | www.rockies.tie.org 2009-2010 Board Director, NAAAP Colorado. We Make Leaders! | www.naaapcolorado.org 2010 Advisory Committee, Colorado Companies to Watch Awards Program | www.colorado.companiestowatch.org This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply E-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
William Bagwell writes: On Thursday 21 January 2010, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify itself, we can only guess at what might work. X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. Unless the OP is willing to try to get Mailman patched, it needs to be the envelope sender, From, or Sender. And since Gmane gets past moderation, it has to be in one of those already. One of the other headers could be used in theory, by using a spam filter. Unfortunately, that would requiring customizing the pipeline since the member checks come after SpamFilter in the pipeline. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Young, Darren wrote: Yea, ArchRunner is running: [r...@bushlms01 archive]# ps -eaf | grep -i arch mailman 2090 2077 0 Jan20 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s OK /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive is empty: [r...@bushlms01 archive]# pwd /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive [r...@bushlms01 archive]# ls -l total 0 What is the timestamp if you do ls -ld here? I'll put in to have Mailman brought up to 2.1.x during a maintenance window. 2.1.13 appears to be the latest in the 2.1.x series, would that be the one to go with now? Yes. 2.1.13 is the version to go with. It requires at least Python 2.4.x. There are some potential issues. If your current Mailman version is 2.1.5 (or later), the migration is no problem at all, but there is a potential compatibility issue with some Python 2.4.x versions and possibly Python 2.5, but not 2.5.x. See the March 2009 update in the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9. If your current Mailman is older than 2.1.5, see the UPGRADING document in the 2.1.13 tarball or at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emailman-coders/mailman/2.1/annotate/head%3A/UPGRADING Any other thoughts? Python version issues with archiving? I don't think any of this has anything to do with your archiving problem. To summarize, - for the list Archiving Options - archive is set to Yes (have you verified this?) - a post or posts were sent to the list and delivered to the list members with archive set to Yes - ArchRunner is running - there's nothing in qfiles/archive - there are no relevant errors in logs/error I can't understand how all of the above can be true. Are there other lists in this installation with archives? If so, does archiving work for them? One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an X-No-Archive: header or an X-Archive: No header? -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
What is the timestamp if you do ls -ld here? [r...@bushlms01 archive]# pwd /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive [r...@bushlms01 archive]# ls -ld drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 16:04 . I don't think any of this has anything to do with your archiving problem. To summarize, - for the list Archiving Options - archive is set to Yes (have you verified this?) Yes, it's there - a post or posts were sent to the list and delivered to the list members with archive set to Yes Yep. - ArchRunner is running Yep. - there's nothing in qfiles/archive Nope. - there are no relevant errors in logs/error Nope. I can't understand how all of the above can be true. Me neither. Are there other lists in this installation with archives? If so, does archiving work for them? No, we've never had archiving at all on any, just starting to try it now One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an X-No-Archive: header or an X-Archive: No header? I don't believe so but I'll check the headers to be sure. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons writes: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, snip Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? I don't know about cPanel, but this is what a vanilla Mailman provides as options for the news-mail gateway: 1. The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. [ ] 2. The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. [ ] 3. Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? NoYes 4. Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? NoYes 5. Forwarding options [ ] 6. The moderation policy of the newsgroup. [ ] AFAIK the gateway service of Gmane is *not* accessible from most Usenet hosts; you need to go directly to Gmane for that. So unless the you configured Gmane as the news server (question 1) and a specific newsgroup to gateway your list to (question 2), nothing will happen. Since you don't have a newsgroup as far as I know, there's nowhere for mailman to gateway to. Note that question 6 is the policy of the newsgroup, *not* your list. No help there. The gateway Mailman - Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane - Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? Yes. What you're missing is that Gmane won't spoof other members, so if another member is there in From, Sender or envelope sender, you pass it. (In practice, the only one that your users are likely to be able to set, or have set appropriately by their ISP, is From.) If it's just Gmane, you don't. *If* Gmane is in the Sender header, then you don't need to do anything special, because From is checked first. Just moderate Gmane, and warn your members that they need to post From: their subscribed addresses from Gmane as well as by mail. Well, looking for gmane headers on a post gives me something like... Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: n...@gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: Xref: news.gmane.org ... Archived-At: http://permalink.gmane.org/listname I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't from legitimate subscribers. :-( (Is that a post received via news? If so, it's little help, because the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.) We really need to see the From, Sender, and Resent-Sender headers, and the envelope sender on the mail received by mailman. Sender really SHOULD be there in mail received by Mailman from Gmane. From RFC 5322 (the current Proposed Standard from email): For example, if a secretary were to send a message for another person, the mailbox of the secretary would appear in the Sender: field and the mailbox of the actual author would appear in the From: field. If the originator of the message can be indicated by a single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, the Sender: field SHOULD NOT be used. Otherwise, both fields SHOULD appear. Here Gmane is functioning as a secretary, and IMO should appear in Sender, while your list member is the author, and should appear in From. If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender, then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have 'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote: On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? Please tell us specifically what your Mailman List's Mail-News gateways settings are? In particular, if your Gmane posts are arriving at Mailman via Mailman's News-Mail Gateway (gateway_to_mail = Yes), Mailman is going to accept everything that comes via that path except for those posts which it sent via gateway_to_news. On the other hand, if the Gmane posts are arriving by mail, as I understand your requirement, you can't do any filtering on Gmane headers because you do not want to either accept, hold or rejece ALL posts from Gmane. You want to accept without holding, those and only those posts which are From: certain addresses. As I have said before in this thread, as long as the Gmane posts are considered to be from a member, the way to do this is to make the acceptable From: addresses members too. [...] Well, looking for gmane headers on a post gives me something like... Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: n...@gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: Xref: news.gmane.org ... Archived-At: http://permalink.gmane.org/listname I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't from legitimate subscribers. :-( That seems to indicate a message from NNTP -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Can you help me?
Melodie Reagan wrote: Your help please. I'm trying to use this tool through hostgator and have set-up and email list; however, it won't let me do anything with it because it says. What does this mean and what should I do, or can you direct me to documentation. Thank you! It is going to be hard for us to help because this is a cPanel Mailman (see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/sYA9). You will probably have to get any needed help from hostgator. However... There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html mailing lists on tierockies.org.To visit the administrators configuration page for an unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and the right list name appended. If you have the proper authority, you can also create a new mailing list http://tierockies.org/mailman/create . General list information can be found at the mailing list overview page http://tierockies.org/mailman/listinfo . If you have successfully created a list via cPanel (I don't know how that is done), your list has two names. One name is used for posting, etc. Let's say for this discussion that that name is mylist as in myl...@tierockies.org. There is also a cPanel name which is used in the web interface. This name in this example is mylist_tierockies.org. So, the web admin interface for this example list is at http://tierockies.org/mailman/admin/mylist_tierockies.org. Try that, using the actual list name you created in place of 'mylist'. Some documentation is at http://www.list.org/docs.html or http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html, but some of this is incomplete and may not apply to cPanel. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives
Young, Darren wrote: What is the timestamp if you do ls -ld here? [r...@bushlms01 archive]# pwd /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/archive [r...@bushlms01 archive]# ls -ld drwxrws--- 2 mailman mailman 4096 Jan 20 16:04 . So your messages are reaching the archive queue (because it is being updated through Jan 20 16:04) and ArchRunner is processing the messages (because the queue is empty) What does ls -lAR /usr/local/mailman/archives/ show? [...] One other thought. Is it possible that your test posts contain an X-No-Archive: header or an X-Archive: No header? I don't believe so but I'll check the headers to be sure. Since it appears posts are reaching the archive queue, this wouldn't be the issue. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, snip Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? I don't know about cPanel, but this is what a vanilla Mailman provides as options for the news-mail gateway: 1. The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. [ ] 2. The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. [ ] 3. Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? NoYes 4. Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? NoYes 5. Forwarding options [ ] 6. The moderation policy of the newsgroup. [ ] AFAIK the gateway service of Gmane is *not* accessible from most Usenet hosts; Yep. But we are talking about newsgroup access here. Not usenet. There are a number of newsgroup servers around the world that aren't usenet. The GRC ones come to mind. you need to go directly to Gmane for that. Agreed. Though I fail to see what that has to do with a news server gateway. Surely the Mailman setting can only accept one news server address at a time ? So whether the server is peering to hundreds/thousands of other servers is surely irrelevant ? So unless the you configured Gmane as the news server (question 1) and a I did. specific newsgroup to gateway your list to (question 2), I did. nothing will happen. Since you don't have a newsgroup as far as I know, there's nowhere for mailman to gateway to. Note that question 6 is the policy of the newsgroup, *not* your list. No help there. Yes, that is ideally where authentication should operate. Each legitimate member should be allocated a valid login password. Hopefully Barry will provide that capability if he can add a news server option to Mailman. The gateway Mailman - Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane - Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? Yes. What you're missing is that Gmane won't spoof other members, so if another member is there in From, Sender or envelope sender, you pass it. (In practice, the only one that your users are likely to be able to set, or have set appropriately by their ISP, is From.) If it's just Gmane, you don't. *If* Gmane is in the Sender header, Could you please clarify those words ? *If* Gmane is in the Sender header. The sender header appears to be the list address. There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the mailing list. Are any of them able to be used in filtering ? Return-path: listname-boun...@mydomain Envelope-to: m...@mydomain Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=panda.hostingbay.net) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from listname-boun...@mydomain) id 1NXp0j-0004O3-Kl for m...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:13 +1100 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-listn...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXp0W-0003h5-6a for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au ([114.76.0.218]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from gmane by c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: listn...@mydomain From: John Fitzsimons m...@mydomain Message-ID: hqmfl5tcd0p6dl7q11j3hp7coltf9on...@4ax.com X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au X-BeenThere: listn...@mydomain Precedence: list Reply-To: Computer Freeware Discussion listn...@mydomain Sender:
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wednesday 20 January 2010, William Bagwell wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Private archive file not found It translates to http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/myma il inglist.mbox where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox appears twice, as a directory and a file. Mark, I can confirm what John is getting and am willing to post the real URL to the list and send the *user* password directly to you if necessary. (Its just a test list with two archived posts, both by myself) Moving this back to the list. A bit of odd behavior here with both Konqueror and Firefox. First, I know the example link to the tiny test list I sent you off list was slightly broken. (missing the first .mbox) And the fixed version you sent back worked perfectly. However, I noticed it had by passed the authentication screen due to my user name password being saved in cookies. Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the Private archive file not found error again. Looked at the URL and it was now missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL and it pulled down a complete archive. So, even when you know the exact location of the archives, something still tries to hide them. Now I just need to get brave and try editing them and see what breaks:) Want to thank John for asking and you for answering! While Gmane and gateways are interesting, they are way down on my list of priorities. Knowing the true location of archives is useful right now. -- William -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:29:50 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010, William Bagwell wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip It translates to http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/myma il inglist.mbox snip Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the Private archive file not found error again. Looked at the URL and it was now missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL and it pulled down a complete archive. I can get to my archive by going to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/ The messages show okay but without header info. If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get No such list mymailinglist. snip Knowing the true location of archives is useful right now. I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster has somehow made the directory invisible ? Pity CPanel doesn't have a Delete Archive button. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote: If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get No such list mymailinglist. As I have tried to say before, where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote:
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Could you please clarify those words ? *If* Gmane is in the Sender
header. The sender header appears to be the list address.
This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the
NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post -
no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers.
There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones
can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be.
You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway.
You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless
you have fery few authorized posters.
Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the
mailing list. Are any of them able to be used in filtering ?
Return-path: listname-boun...@mydomain
Envelope-to: m...@mydomain
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=panda.hostingbay.net)
by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from listname-boun...@mydomain)
id 1NXp0j-0004O3-Kl
for m...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:13 +1100
Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12])
by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-listn...@m.gmane.org)
id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K
for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100
Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id
1NXp0W-0003h5-6a
for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100
Received: from c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au
([114.76.0.218])
by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100
Received: from gmane by c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au with
local
(Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: listn...@mydomain
From: John Fitzsimons m...@mydomain
Message-ID: hqmfl5tcd0p6dl7q11j3hp7coltf9on...@4ax.com
X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au
X-BeenThere: listn...@mydomain
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Computer Freeware Discussion listn...@mydomain
Sender: listname-boun...@mydomain
Errors-To: listname-boun...@mydomain
X-ACL-Warn: {
X-Agent-Received: from aspects (gmane) (mail.mydomain); Thu, 21 Jan
2010 15:51:24 +1100
As I am an authorised poster the sort of filter that would be needed
that comes to mind would be something like...
DELETE ! From: {...@mydomain | mem...@hisdomain}
But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman.
Like the following in Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules
First rule:
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for
additional posters)
Last rule
regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
action: Discard
then
you don't need to do anything special, because From is checked first.
Just moderate Gmane,
Just moderate ? I haven't done that before. Do I need to do more than
just set the Gmane subscription to moderate ?
It won't help. See above.
and warn your members that they need to post
From: their subscribed addresses from Gmane as well as by mail.
Yes, I have already told them that.
[...]
(Is that a post received via news?
Yes, ALL headers are received via news ! All my members of this
list want it that way. They are only interested in posting via a
newsreader.
They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via
email.
If so, it's little help, because
the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.)
Okay, see the added info I provided above.
Which contrary to your Here are some of the headers as they appear
when they arrive at the mailing list. assertion appear to be the
headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the
post as it arrived to Mailman.
Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender
(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To:
[...]
If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender,
then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via
Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right?
Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ?
He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy
options... - Sender filters page.
I have setup the list as Require approval. Is that what you mean ?
That is presumably Privacy options... - Subscription rules -
subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense -
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
William Bagwell wrote: Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the Private archive file not found error again. Looked at the URL and it was now missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL and it pulled down a complete archive. This is a Mailman bug. Once upon a time, not all that long ago, the POST URL for the private archive authentication form was simply http://example.com/mailman/private, so if someone sent you a link to a message of the form http://example.com/mailman/private/list/2009-December/67.html and you followd that link and got the login page, when you logged in, you just got the archive contents page instead of the post you wanted. I fixed that, but the fix didn't take into account the .mbox URLs, hence the bug that you see, and you have to log in first, then go to the correct URL. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers
Hi, I've been going through the archives and I've picked up bits and pieces of the information I need, but in most cases NFS is discussed. I've got 5 Ubuntu servers, 2 postfix mail gateways (MXs for all our domains) and 3 apache web servers. All of those have access to an ISCSI SAN with OCFS2 partitions. Ideally I'd like to have the mail section running on both gateways (potentially more than just the 2 in the near future) and the web interface available from any of the web servers. This is more for availability than performance. Should separate installations of the web section on each web server be fine or is there shared information needed there? And since I'm using a clustered fs, would I still need to slice up the qfiles directory structure for the mail section? Or would having the entire mailman installation on shared storage and individual apache/postfix configs per machine be the way to go? Any other suggestions or advice about this would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks Guy -- Don't just do something...sit there! -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Random email failures
We run several lists for a non-profit organization on Mailman and in a couple of the groups, we have somewhat random failures. With some of the members, they cannot receive emails sent to the lists, even though they are on the lists. Some of the members can receive emails, but cannot send to the list. We have checked, rechecked, erases, redone, checked and rechecked but the problem remains for these random members. We have asked the members to check their own IT departments and the response has been that nothing seems to be a problem. Is there anyone we can talk to to see if we are doing something wrong? Lou Covey l...@vitalcompr.com 650-366-8212 650-430-8060 (mobile) commbasics.typepad.com facebook.com/lou.covey twitter.com/loucovey linkedin.com/loucovey Whether it is success or failure, you will always find what you look for -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Random email failures
Lou Covey wrote: We run several lists for a non-profit organization on Mailman and in a couple of the groups, we have somewhat random failures. With some of the members, they cannot receive emails sent to the lists, even though they are on the lists. Some of the members can receive emails, but cannot send to the list. We have checked, rechecked, erases, redone, checked and rechecked but the problem remains for these random members. We have asked the members to check their own IT departments and the response has been that nothing seems to be a problem. Is there anyone we can talk to to see if we are doing something wrong? Do you have content filtering enabled for the lists? If so, a common posting problem is an HTML only post that gets filtered to nothing by content filtering. Also, if you have access, check Mailman's vette log for discard messages and Mailman's bounce log for possible bounces of outgoing mail. If you have access to the MTA logs, you can check for the disposition of outgoing posts to those members who don't receive them. If they are sent OK and don't bounce, the problem is in the receiving ISP. You can also see if the problem incoming posts reach your server and what is done with them. Also, see the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/4oA9. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:09:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get No such list mymailinglist. As I have tried to say before, where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. Okay, that makes things clearer. Thank you. I have now tried the following. (1) Log into my mailinglist administrative interface. (2) In CPanel clicked on Go to list archives (3) I now see the list archives (but no headers). (4) I now put the following address in... http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox and get... Private archive file not found Now, the first page shows an archive. So I expected the second page to. The reason it doesn't may have to do with my changing the Archive messages? setting to No a few days ago. Perhaps that is the problem ? Not the incorrect path ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote: (4) I now put the following address in... http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox and get... Private archive file not found I don't know why this is so hard, but the URL is http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox Try that one. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on multiple web and mail servers
Guy wrote: I've been going through the archives and I've picked up bits and pieces of the information I need, but in most cases NFS is discussed. I've got 5 Ubuntu servers, 2 postfix mail gateways (MXs for all our domains) and 3 apache web servers. All of those have access to an ISCSI SAN with OCFS2 partitions. Ideally I'd like to have the mail section running on both gateways (potentially more than just the 2 in the near future) and the web interface available from any of the web servers. This is more for availability than performance. Should separate installations of the web section on each web server be fine or is there shared information needed there? There is shared information in all of the archives, data, lists, locks, logs and qfiles directories. These need to be on shared storage so they are accessible to all web and mail servers. By the 'mail section', I'm guessing you mean the qrunners. The qrunners need access to all the shared data, and if there are multiple qrunners processing the same queue, they need to be sliced so they don't interfere with each other. I suppose you could have a separate set of qrunners and separate mail delivery on each mail server, each with its own set of local qfiles, but they would still need access to the shared archives, data, lists, locks and logs directories (well, they could have their own logs too). And since I'm using a clustered fs, would I still need to slice up the qfiles directory structure for the mail section? Slicing is not a directory structure thing. Each queue entry is a file in the corresponding queue directory. E.g., qfiles/in/file. Slicing just divides the file name space into sections each of which is processed by its own runner. Or would having the entire mailman installation on shared storage and individual apache/postfix configs per machine be the way to go? It's one way to go. Keep in mind that much of the code is common to all processes, so having local code will result in much duplication. OTOH, it will reduce contention on the shared store. This is not a tradeoff that I can give a pat answer for since I don't know what your load is or what the capability of your shared fs is, and I have virtually no experience with this anyway. Any other suggestions or advice about this would be greatly appreciated as well. I hope this helps. If it doesn't answer your questions or raises other, ask again. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
John Fitzsimons wrote:
Hi Mark,
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Could you please clarify those words ? *If* Gmane is in the Sender
header. The sender header appears to be the list address.
This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the
NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post -
no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers.
Okay, so to authenticate a small number of people eg. dozens what
should I have ?
(1) The Gmane subscription ?
(2) The gateway ?
(3) Both ?
Just tell me what you think is best. You are the expert here. Not me.
I am the dummy.
I very much appreciate your help. At the end of the day however I want
to impliment a system that actually works !
There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones
can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be.
You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway.
You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless
you have fery few authorized posters.
Well, is there a practical limit to the term very few ? Initially I
hope to increase subscribers to dozens. The number could however
reach something like a hundred. Would that break Mailman ? What
dictates how many are too many ?
snip
As I am an authorised poster the sort of filter that would be needed
that comes to mind would be something like...
DELETE ! From: {...@mydomain | mem...@hisdomain}
But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman.
Like the following in Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules
First rule:
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for
additional posters)
Ah ! I like that. Do I insert the above EXACTLY as you have suggested
?
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
I need both the regexp AND action items ?
Also, at what approximate number would you recommend expanding the
first filter rule in preference to adding new ones ? I am guessing
that there may be some sort of a limit set as to how many characters
in total can be in that box ?
Last rule
regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
action: Discard
Okay.
snip
They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via
email.
Okay, so if I get rid of the gateway settings the above filters will
still work ?
If so, it's little help, because
the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.)
Okay, see the added info I provided above.
Which contrary to your Here are some of the headers as they appear
when they arrive at the mailing list. assertion appear to be the
headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the
post as it arrived to Mailman.
Good point. Sorry. If I could show you the raw header info then I
would.
Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender
(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To:
[...]
If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender,
then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via
Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right?
Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ?
He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy
options... - Sender filters page.
Ah ! Sorry. I am still very much a newbie here. I have
By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to No
and
Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. set to
Hold.
I am not sure if I need to change either/both of those settings to
make sure the filtering you recommend works.
I have setup the list as Require approval. Is that what you mean ?
That is presumably Privacy options... - Subscription rules -
subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all.
Okay, thanks. I will not change that then.
Regards, John.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:21:49 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip I don't know why this is so hard, but the URL is http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox Try that one. Worked perfectly ! Thank you. Is this all you need ? From gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXaKC-0008HY-Ns for myl...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:10:24 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXaKA-92-IA for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from 78.151.127.180 ([78.151.127.180]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from poster by 78.151.127.180 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: myl...@mydomain From: poster pos...@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:44 - Message-ID: hj6vao$ro...@ger.gmane.org X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.151.127.180 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 Sender: news n...@ger.gmane.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 X-Spam-Score: 23 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-Spam-Flag: NO Subject: [mylist] Zip Extract X-BeenThere: myl...@mydomain X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12.cp3 Precedence: list Reply-To: List info myl...@mydomain List-Id: List info mylist_mydomain.mydomain List-Unsubscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/options/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://mydomain/pipermail/mylist_mydomain List-Help: mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/listinfo/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=subscribe X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:25 - Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the
NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post -
no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers.
Actually, that is NOT the case, at least for the message in your
follow-up post. See my reply to that (when it comes).
Okay, so to authenticate a small number of people eg. dozens what
should I have ?
(1) The Gmane subscription ?
(2) The gateway ?
(3) Both ?
I think the best thing for you to have is the Gmane subscription only.
Just tell me what you think is best. You are the expert here. Not me.
I am the dummy.
I very much appreciate your help. At the end of the day however I want
to impliment a system that actually works !
There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones
can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be.
You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway.
You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless
you have fery few authorized posters.
Well, is there a practical limit to the term very few ? Initially I
hope to increase subscribers to dozens. The number could however
reach something like a hundred. Would that break Mailman ? What
dictates how many are too many ?
Too many is more than you are willing to maintain in header filter
rules. Mailman doesn't care, but we apparently don't need to do this.
See my next reply.
snip
As I am an authorised poster the sort of filter that would be needed
that comes to mind would be something like...
DELETE ! From: {...@mydomain | mem...@hisdomain}
But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman.
Like the following in Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules
First rule:
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for
additional posters)
Ah ! I like that. Do I insert the above EXACTLY as you have suggested
?
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
I need both the regexp AND action items ?
Also, at what approximate number would you recommend expanding the
first filter rule in preference to adding new ones ? I am guessing
that there may be some sort of a limit set as to how many characters
in total can be in that box ?
Last rule
regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
action: Discard
Okay.
snip
They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via
email.
Okay, so if I get rid of the gateway settings the above filters will
still work ?
I will give you a recipe in the next reply, but the short answer is No.
If so, it's little help, because
the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.)
Okay, see the added info I provided above.
Which contrary to your Here are some of the headers as they appear
when they arrive at the mailing list. assertion appear to be the
headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the
post as it arrived to Mailman.
Good point. Sorry. If I could show you the raw header info then I
would.
Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender
(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To:
[...]
If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender,
then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via
Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right?
Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ?
He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy
options... - Sender filters page.
Ah ! Sorry. I am still very much a newbie here. I have
By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to No
and
Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. set to
Hold.
I am not sure if I need to change either/both of those settings to
make sure the filtering you recommend works.
See my next reply.
I have setup the list as Require approval. Is that what you mean ?
That is presumably Privacy options... - Subscription rules -
subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all.
Okay, thanks. I will not change that then.
--
Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons wrote: Worked perfectly ! Thank you. Is this all you need ? From gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXaKC-0008HY-Ns for myl...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:10:24 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXaKA-92-IA for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from 78.151.127.180 ([78.151.127.180]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from poster by 78.151.127.180 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: myl...@mydomain From: poster pos...@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:44 - Message-ID: hj6vao$ro...@ger.gmane.org X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.151.127.180 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 Sender: news n...@ger.gmane.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 X-Spam-Score: 23 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-Spam-Flag: NO Subject: [mylist] Zip Extract X-BeenThere: myl...@mydomain X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12.cp3 Precedence: list Reply-To: List info myl...@mydomain List-Id: List info mylist_mydomain.mydomain List-Unsubscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/options/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://mydomain/pipermail/mylist_mydomain List-Help: mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/listinfo/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=subscribe X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:25 - This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by Gmane to the list. Here are the relevant things. The envelope is from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org The Sender: is news n...@ger.gmane.org The From: is poster pos...@hotmail.com Presumably either gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org or n...@ger.gmane.org is a member of your list. Most likely gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org as n...@ger.gmane.org seems more generic. Here's what you do: On Privacy options... - Sender filters, set - member_moderation_action to Hold to start, later you can set it to Discard, but don't set it to Reject. - generic_nonmember_action to Hold or Discard. On Membership Management... - Membership List check the mod box for the gmane member. Then make sure all authorized posters are list members and their mod box is unchecked. On General Options, set respond_to_post_requests to No, at least as long as member_moderation_action is Hold. This is to avoid confusing Gmane be sending stuff back to it. Then when a post arrives, the From is checked first, and if it is from an unmoderated member, the post goes to the list. If it is from a non-member, the envelope sender and Sender: headers are checked and one of these (presumably just gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org) is a moderated member so the post is dealt with per member_moderation_action. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:17:32 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, snip This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by Gmane to the list. Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it accepts the post. Here are the relevant things. The envelope is from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org The Sender: is news n...@ger.gmane.org The From: is poster pos...@hotmail.com Presumably either gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org or n...@ger.gmane.org is a member of your list. Most likely gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org as n...@ger.gmane.org seems more generic. Correct. Here's what you do: snip Wow ! That looks impressive. I will have to read that carefully, apply the steps, and do some testing. Thank you for your amazing patience and help with this. It is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
Mark Sapiro wrote: This is a Mailman bug. [...] I fixed that, but the fix didn't take into account the .mbox URLs, hence the bug that you see, and you have to log in first, then go to the correct URL. I have committed a fix for this and updated the original bug report at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/266164. The actual fix is at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/revision/1217. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
Mark Sapiro writes: This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post - no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers. Are you sure? The way I read Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-listn...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 is that it's coming in by SMTP, not via NNTP. In the post as John receives it, we have Sender: listname-boun...@mydomain but elsewhere he reports that the mbox file contains From gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Sender: news n...@ger.gmane.org From: poster pos...@hotmail.com So the news@ Sender: should have nothing to do with the stealth approval via gmane, and the gcf-mylist@ envelope sender presumably is what is getting those posts through when poster is *not* a member. (I think that envelope sender is a bug in Gmane.) AFAICS, just moderate gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org and Gmane will no longer be a vector for stealth posts by nonmembers. When poster is a member, From: is checked by Mailman before Sender: or the envelope sender, so will be approved automatically. There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. Up to now, you didn't need to ask, because we didn't know either. This is very complex, and cannot be simplified at this stage. For now, just follow instructions, get the information we need and install and test the necessary Mailman options. Getting the information is done, I think. The next step is to try the setting the option, either live on your list (slight risk of getting through which would be a minor nuisance to your member) or borrow William Bagwell's test list (if that's what he has set up, AIUI). Once you're satisfied that it's working as you want, *then* we can explain enough, in straightforward and concrete terms, so that you can be confident it will keep working, and have some background info about your own setup if something goes wonky in the future. (You probably won't be able to fix it on your own, but if and when you come back, we'll be able to get to the point much quicker than this time.) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
John Fitzsimons writes: This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by Gmane to the list. Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it accepts the post. I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure it is not the case. There is no reply to wait for. Both email and netnews are designed as store and forward. The process is - Someone connects to your system. - She sends you a message. - You accept the message. - You make sure it is safely stored on your system. - You tell the system you got it from OK, I've got it, you can stop worrying now. - Finally, you end the connection. However, at this stage there is no sense in which anybody knows that delivery to the addressee will succeed. Now you try to send it to the next hop, following the same procedure as above. If it is refused at any stage, the last system to have accepted the message will send an error message back to the author (there are some details I'm omitting, and differences between mail and news, but that's the basic idea). The accept, store, forward process happens both at the poster - Gmane, and the Gmane - Mailman stages. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
