Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 12 Dec 2017, at 20:10, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 12 Dec 2017, at 17:48, Bill Cole wrote: On 12 Dec 2017, at 1:10 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 23:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:14 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: My suspicion is that the

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 22:38, Charlie Garrison wrote: On 12 Dec 2017, at 1:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: I was going to suggest leaving out the index (the `Database.noindex` folder) since that doesn't behave well with Time Machine. Could you please expand on that? What is the issue with

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 16:43, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 9:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: I was going to suggest leaving out the index (the `Database.noindex` folder) since that doesn't behave well with Time Machine. I don't think the other files should cause any problems and

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got MailMate. The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden, inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*. The

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 12 Dec 2017, at 17:48, Bill Cole wrote: On 12 Dec 2017, at 1:10 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 23:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:14 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large directories on APFS file

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 12 Dec 2017, at 1:10 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 23:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:14 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large directories on APFS file systems This would be shocking. One of the

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 12 Dec 2017, at 16:45, David Blank-Edelman wrote: > On Dec 12, 2017, at 1:10 AM, Steven M. Bellovin > wrote: This dump is to a directly connected USB 2.0 drive. And the CPU is about 96% idle, according to 'top'. So, I have to admit I’m

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

> On Dec 12, 2017, at 1:10 AM, Steven M. Bellovin > wrote: > > This dump is to a directly connected USB 2.0 drive. And the CPU is about 96% > idle, according to 'top'. So, I have to admit I’m still very curious to hear what is in the runtime

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 23:26, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:14 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large directories on APFS file systems This would be shocking. One of the rationales for APFS existing is that the HFS foundation was

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:14 (-0500), Steven M. Bellovin wrote: My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large directories on APFS file systems This would be shocking. One of the rationales for APFS existing is that the HFS foundation was played out for dealing with large directories

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

Good morning, On 12 Dec 2017, at 1:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: I was going to suggest leaving out the index (the `Database.noindex` folder) since that doesn't behave well with Time Machine. Could you please expand on that? What is the issue with backing up the index? Is it something

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 10:00, Paul Sture wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 3:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac,

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 9:42, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 15:38, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:35, Patrik Fältström wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 4:02, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I should add: the issue is not bandwidth to the disk--it works fine when backing up

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 3:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which has a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 15:38, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:35, Patrik Fältström wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 4:02, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I should add: the issue is not bandwidth to the disk--it works fine when backing up very large files. I have added the local IMAP cache

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 8:35, Patrik Fältström wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 4:02, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: I should add: the issue is not bandwidth to the disk--it works fine when backing up very large files. I have added the local IMAP cache to Time Machine "do not include this directory" for

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 4:02, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > I should add: the issue is not bandwidth to the disk--it works fine when > backing up very large files. I have added the local IMAP cache to Time Machine "do not include this directory" for backups. paf signature.asc Description:

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 5:31, David Ledger wrote: Having read the other replies I would question Activity Monitor. AM is an application built on top of the real data recording and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Apple filter out any sort of activity they think you shouldn’t be concerned

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 2:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which has a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:58, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:31, Charlie Garrison wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 13:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 10 Dec 2017, at 21:31, Charlie Garrison wrote: On 11 Dec 2017, at 13:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An

Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

On 11 Dec 2017, at 13:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which has a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not

[MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...

Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which has a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble. The overall symptom is that