Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 21:27, Matthew Cawood wrote: MailMate has been one of my best software experiences in more than a decade of using a Mac (Devonthink and Ulysses are also up there. The only connection I can see is that they are all based in Europe). Amen to that - IMHO - the moment I found the automatic-subfolder foo for mailing lists, I was sold. As someone who follows something like 200+ development mailing lists ( and github projects ) having these live subfolders is a godsend for keeping up on things. Mark -- Mark Derricutt http://www.theoryinpractice.net http://www.chaliceofblood.net http://plus.google.com/+MarkDerricutt http://twitter.com/talios http://facebook.com/mderricutt signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 6:36, Andreas Jung wrote: I have been using Mailmate for three weeks now - with very mixed feelings. Thanks for trying out MailMate and providing feedback in the process. I know it may feel like feedback is some times going into a black hole, but it really doesn't. (I know I haven't replied to all tickets you have created.) I hope you might return to MailMate some day and find that it lives up to your requirements. As a longtime Postbox user I've been pissed lately by the bad support of Postbox Inc and some painful bugs in the stability of Postbox - so I came to Mailmate. To be fair, I think Postbox is pretty clear about support only being provided when explicitly paying for it. However Mailmate also has tons of minor and major issues. Ok, no software is bugfree. But the density of minor flaws in Mailmate (that I would not expect from a 1.9 version) is annoying. Fair enough. The trial period exists to make sure that show stoppers can be found before buying. Some of my highlight bugs: - invalid counters for unread mails for *some* folders Yes, that one annoys me too, but it was my impression that there was no longer a debug opportunity: https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1119 - default columns do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) As I stated in [the ticket](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1157-unable-to-delete-imap-folders#ticket-1157-1) I am willing to prioritize this if it's very important to you. I don't see this as a “major usability pain in the ass” since I don't think a lot of users frequently delete IMAP mailboxes containing emails. As also stated in the ticket, it's not a quick fix, because MailMate has multiple checks to ensure that non-empty IMAP mailboxes are never deleted. There is a hidden preference to enable the “Empty Mailbox” menu item for all IMAP mailboxes. That might reduce some of the pain: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmEmptyMailboxMenuItemEnabled -bool YES (I think it only works in the latest test release though.) - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the mailboxes tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag drop There is certainly potential for improvement in this area. - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not For debugging, I recommend creating a smart mailbox with the same conditions as used by the rule. That should make it easy to see what is matched and what is not matched. - usability issues with the signing and encryption UI where the signing/lock icons are set or enabled when it does not make sense (e.g. no key available for a recipient) Yes, this could be more flexible. Currently, it simply errs on the safe side. It would be worse if it silently did not sign/encrypt when the user expected to be warned if it was not possible. Most of the issues have been reported as feedback or as bugreports. And thanks for that. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one might think. (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.) I guess feedback should be a two-way street: I don't know about other developers, but I think you would get both more and better responses by toning down your language a bit. I'm certainly not motivated by being told how much this or that suck. I'm perfectly aware of all the bugs and short-comings of MailMate. I am, by far, its worst critic and I have no idea why *anyone* would want to use MailMate. That is also why I continue to work on MailMate. I want it to be good enough to deserve *my own* praise. The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own special way - only the price differs. I really don't know how to respond to that. If you are in a situation where you need a discount then
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results - OT
Benny, your balanced and helpful answers to this and other support questions is one of several reasons for which I’ve chosen to go with MailMate. Thank you. -- Thomas ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
Benny Kjær Nielsen 2015-05-19 9:53 wrote: I am, by far, its worst critic and I have no idea why _anyone_ would want to use MailMate. I know why, it solid and no nonsense software that I can rely on. Right up there with BBEdit that also happens to cost 50 USD. If they would cost a 100 USD I would still think it was *very* good value for the money. Fredrik ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
MailMate has been one of my best software experiences in more than a decade of using a Mac (Devonthink and Ulysses are also up there. The only connection I can see is that they are all based in Europe). If I want to do something, I find that MailMate usually already does it. On the rare occasions when it doesn't, Benny has made it happen. Spotlight integration, for example, which I haven't yet used, but which is on the way. MailMate has a few quirks, but nothing that qualifies as more than an occasional minor annoyance. The OP has found more pain in MailMate in the trial period than I've discovered in months of heavy-duty daily usage. On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 19 May 2015, at 6:36, Andreas Jung wrote: I have been using Mailmate for three weeks now - with very mixed feelings. Thanks for trying out MailMate and providing feedback in the process. I know it may feel like feedback is some times going into a black hole, but it really doesn't. (I know I haven't replied to all tickets you have created.) I hope you might return to MailMate some day and find that it lives up to your requirements. As a longtime Postbox user I've been pissed lately by the bad support of Postbox Inc and some painful bugs in the stability of Postbox - so I came to Mailmate. To be fair, I think Postbox is pretty clear about support only being provided when explicitly paying for it. However Mailmate also has tons of minor and major issues. Ok, no software is bugfree. But the density of minor flaws in Mailmate (that I would not expect from a 1.9 version) is annoying. Fair enough. The trial period exists to make sure that show stoppers can be found before buying. Some of my highlight bugs: - invalid counters for unread mails for *some* folders Yes, that one annoys me too, but it was my impression that there was no longer a debug opportunity: https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1119 - default columns do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) As I stated in [the ticket](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1157-unable-to-delete-imap-folders#ticket-1157-1) I am willing to prioritize this if it's very important to you. I don't see this as a “major usability pain in the ass” since I don't think a lot of users frequently delete IMAP mailboxes containing emails. As also stated in the ticket, it's not a quick fix, because MailMate has multiple checks to ensure that non-empty IMAP mailboxes are never deleted. There is a hidden preference to enable the “Empty Mailbox” menu item for all IMAP mailboxes. That might reduce some of the pain: defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmEmptyMailboxMenuItemEnabled -bool YES (I think it only works in the latest test release though.) - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the mailboxes tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag drop There is certainly potential for improvement in this area. - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not For debugging, I recommend creating a smart mailbox with the same conditions as used by the rule. That should make it easy to see what is matched and what is not matched. - usability issues with the signing and encryption UI where the signing/lock icons are set or enabled when it does not make sense (e.g. no key available for a recipient) Yes, this could be more flexible. Currently, it simply errs on the safe side. It would be worse if it silently did not sign/encrypt when the user expected to be warned if it was not possible. Most of the issues have been reported as feedback or as bugreports. And thanks for that. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one might think. (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.) I guess feedback
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
Hi all, just a quick note to balance the universe’s karma: My experience with MailMate has been **awesome**. I really liked the app, and I bought a license on the spot to support the (only) developer, so that the (few) minor issues that I’d found could be solved. The level of support is nothing short of amazing (specially if you are nice when providing feedback), and I’ve had feature requests implemented in *hours* (I know this won’t be the norm for every request, but that doesn’t make it less impressive). As someone who builds software for a living I can totally relate to Benny’s reply. An aggressive tone might give you a quick adrenaline boost but it helps no one and doesn’t solve your issues. Remember the old english proverb: Tart words make no friends: a spoonful of honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar. Have a beautiful day, and be nice to people : ) Ale___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 0:53, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one might think. (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.) Yes, MailMate's support is, regardless of the cost, easily its very best attribute. ビリー ヨーデルマん +1 310 839 7673 http://MIX.ORG/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:09, Paula Coelho wrote: Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply Revert to default columns on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the column layout again is not the default columns layout. I’m on MM 1.9.1 (5084) OS X 10.10.3 and I cannot reproduce what you describe. I get what Benny pointed out: it does _not_ work for Drafts, Sent and Junk, it _works_ perfectly for everything else. Not, it does not as you can see from this screencast: http://public.zopyx.com/mailmate.mp4 -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
-- ZOPYX | Python | Zope | Plone | E-Publishing Hundskapfklinge 33| Consulting Development D-72074 Tübingen | Electronic Publishing Solutions www.zopyx.com | Scalable Web Solutions -- Produce Publish - www.produce-and-publish.com On 19 May 2015, at 9:53, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: - default columns do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply Revert to default columns on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the column layout again is not the default columns layout. - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) As I stated in [the ticket](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1157-unable-to-delete-imap-folders#ticket-1157-1) I am willing to prioritize this if it's very important to you. I don't see this as a “major usability pain in the ass” since I don't think a lot of users frequently delete IMAP mailboxes containing emails. As also stated in the ticket, it's not a quick fix, because MailMate has multiple checks to ensure that non-empty IMAP mailboxes are never deleted. It is a major pain when you need to clean up your inboxes or deal with lots of mailboxes that you are using for a short amount of time. And as said: adding an explicit user confirmation is unlikely a big warning. - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the mailboxes tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag drop There is certainly potential for improvement in this area. It's just half-baked and it is far away from being helpful for organizing my favorite email folders and for accessing them fast. - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not For debugging, I recommend creating a smart mailbox with the same conditions as used by the rule. That should make it easy to see what is matched and what is not matched. Easy rules like matching a single From: address sometimes works and sometimes it does not. The behavior is often odd and unpredictable. This makes working with Mailmate just unreliable. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one might think. (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.) I guess feedback should be a two-way street: I don't know about other developers, but I think you would get both more and better responses by toning down your language a bit. I'm certainly not motivated by being told how much this or that suck. I'm perfectly aware of all the bugs and short-comings of MailMate. I am, by far, its worst critic and I have no idea why *anyone* would want to use MailMate. That is also why I continue to work on MailMate. I want it to be good enough to deserve *my own* praise. The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own special way - only the price differs. I really don't know how to respond to that. If you are in a situation where you need a discount then let me know. I'm not going to lower the price in general. And don't get me wrong. If I was working on MailMate for the money then I would be more stupid than the shortcomings of MailMate are. I don't care about a discount and I don't care about 50 EUR. I care about a working work environment and I take the freedom to complain about software that has obvious bugs. I am software developer myself and I am annoyed to see so many little obvious and open issues in your software in a 1.9 release. I have not seen this in any other Mac software so far. Either some features are not very well thought or just badly implement or just to generic in order to make it right (the rules engine gives me exactly this feeling). -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply Revert to default columns on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the column layout again is not the default columns layout. I’m on MM 1.9.1 (5084) OS X 10.10.3 and I cannot reproduce what you describe. I get what Benny pointed out: it does _not_ work for Drafts, Sent and Junk, it _works_ perfectly for everything else. p.___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:27, Ben Klebe wrote: I don't care about a discount and I don't care about 50 EUR. I care about a working work environment and I take the freedom to complain about software that has obvious bugs. I am software developer myself and I am annoyed to see so many little obvious and open issues in your software in a 1.9 release. I have not seen this in any other Mac software so far. Either some features are not very well thought or just badly implement or just to generic in order to make it right (the rules engine gives me exactly this feeling). -aj Furthermore, MailMate offers classes of features that are unavailable in other mail clients, and even the ability to request more of these features and amendments to these features directly with a prompt and polite response. The bugs you have pointed out are non-obvious at best and edge cases at worst. Counters showing improper numbers of unread messages an edge case? Non persistent column settings an edge case? Simple email rules something working and sometimes not an edge case? Seriously? For a single developer the fact that it works at all is quite impressive, especially in such an archaic language as Objective-C. I'm sure you realize that. You don't have the right to complain about bugs in software you do not own. If it really peeved you that your trial had so many bugs, you could have simply said here's why I'm not buying and moved on. The programming language does not matter and the number of developers does not matter. The quality of a product I potentially pay for matters. If the quality, the reliability and the added value over competitor products is worth the money then I am happy to pay let's say 100 EUR. Neither the programming language nor the number of developer is an excuse for such obvious flaws. And you don't have to tell that I have no right for complaining about bugs. Obviously some of you have problems taking issues seriously? -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
I don't care about a discount and I don't care about 50 EUR. I care about a working work environment and I take the freedom to complain about software that has obvious bugs. I am software developer myself and I am annoyed to see so many little obvious and open issues in your software in a 1.9 release. I have not seen this in any other Mac software so far. Either some features are not very well thought or just badly implement or just to generic in order to make it right (the rules engine gives me exactly this feeling). -aj I think you need to consider several factors in your evaluation of MailMate. I'm not saying it's for you, because it's certainly not for everyone. MailMate is a truly unique application. It is developed singlehandedly. The developer allows you to submit bug reports, converse with them frankly and directly about your issues, and even request features. Before continuing, you must at least acknowledge that an ungodly amount of effort has gone into making you and all of us happy with MailMate. If it's not clear to you already that being able to converse publicly and directly with a developer is unique in proprietary software, it should be now. Furthermore, MailMate offers classes of features that are unavailable in other mail clients, and even the ability to request more of these features and amendments to these features directly with a prompt and polite response. The bugs you have pointed out are non-obvious at best and edge cases at worst. For a single developer the fact that it works at all is quite impressive, especially in such an archaic language as Objective-C. I'm sure you realize that. You don't have the right to complain about bugs in software you do not own. If it really peeved you that your trial had so many bugs, you could have simply said here's why I'm not buying and moved on. Instead, you chose to write a screed decrying all Mac email clients, saying that they were all bad and the only difference between them was the price. Why you sent this to the MailMate public list, I'll never know. If you're sick of native mail clients, go use Gmail. It's a nice, sterile web service where I can assure you there will be no noticeable bugs and also nobody to talk to should you need help. Don't come whining to a single indie developer's mailing list about how much their and everyone else's product sucks. It adds literally nothing to the conversation and makes you look bad. Sincerely, Ben Klebe signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
Hi everybody, this thread quickly exploded. That was not the intention with my initial reply, but maybe I should have anticipated it. Thanks to everyone contributing to the thread, but I think we can safely stop it now. Please! I'll reply to this one and then I'll handle any specifics off list (politely) later tonight. Write me off list if any of you have additional remarks. On 19 May 2015, at 18:06, Andreas Jung wrote: On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Barton Lipman wrote: There's no need to harass people on a public mailing list who subscribe in order to keep up with new ideas for software they like. If you don't like it, please communicate with the developer off this mailing list or just don't buy the software. oh my god...are we in the software business or in the kindergarten? you guys can't stand critics for paid software? How laughable is this? Since Mailmate is not open-source and since it is a commercial product (and I don't have to care about the language and about the circumstance of the making of Mailmate) there is a right to complain. You certainly do and I hope I haven't expressed that you could not do that. But the same goes for every other user of MailMate on this list — also if they want to share a different view on MailMate. **I** am the only one really required to take all complaints seriously and handle them politely. And that's what I intend to continue to do. Feel free to be offended or take the critics seriously..perhaps someone takes a lesson from this thread. Perhaps... As stated above I'll go through the thread later tonight and deal with any details. I might ask you to help me debug some of the issues, but if you are done with MailMate then you can just ignore those requests. End of thread! -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Barton Lipman wrote: For someone who is so particular, why is this one of the testimonials on your website? Produce Publish server: We justed finished writing our brochure texts through the web and some seconds later we could hold the print-ready PDF document in our hands - very impressing. Just a blink of an eye away and the PDF was ready - this this the fascination of this publishing solution. There's no need to harass people on a public mailing list who subscribe in order to keep up with new ideas for software they like. If you don't like it, please communicate with the developer off this mailing list or just don't buy the software. oh my god...are we in the software business or in the kindergarten? you guys can't stand critics for paid software? How laughable is this? Since Mailmate is not open-source and since it is a commercial product (and I don't have to care about the language and about the circumstance of the making of Mailmate) there is a right to complain. Feel free to be offended or take the critics seriously..perhaps someone takes a lesson from this thread. -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
So it doesn’t work for you, and it does for me (and others). It might be the case for the other bugs you pointed out (i didn’t notice them in my daily use, but neither did i attempt to reproduce today as i did for the columns layout one). Looks like for some reason you landed in an exception case, rather than the norm of the MM behaviour. You may try to understand why (and i’m not at all saying you should, by all means) or move on. good day to you! p. On 19 May 2015, at 12:30, Andreas Jung wrote: On 19 May 2015, at 17:09, Paula Coelho wrote: Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll happen soon. No, it does not work _at all_ with standard folder. I apply Revert to default columns on a folder, switch to a different folder and back and the column layout again is not the default columns layout. I’m on MM 1.9.1 (5084) OS X 10.10.3 and I cannot reproduce what you describe. I get what Benny pointed out: it does _not_ work for Drafts, Sent and Junk, it _works_ perfectly for everything else. Not, it does not as you can see from this screencast: http://public.zopyx.com/mailmate.mp4 -aj___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] Evaluation results
Personally, I'm not in the software business. I just subscribe to an email list because I like the software. I don't have any interest in your views on the topic. Bart On 19 May 2015, at 12:06, Andreas Jung wrote: On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Barton Lipman wrote: For someone who is so particular, why is this one of the testimonials on your website? Produce Publish server: We justed finished writing our brochure texts through the web and some seconds later we could hold the print-ready PDF document in our hands - very impressing. Just a blink of an eye away and the PDF was ready - this this the fascination of this publishing solution. There's no need to harass people on a public mailing list who subscribe in order to keep up with new ideas for software they like. If you don't like it, please communicate with the developer off this mailing list or just don't buy the software. oh my god...are we in the software business or in the kindergarten? you guys can't stand critics for paid software? How laughable is this? Since Mailmate is not open-source and since it is a commercial product (and I don't have to care about the language and about the circumstance of the making of Mailmate) there is a right to complain. Feel free to be offended or take the critics seriously..perhaps someone takes a lesson from this thread. -aj___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] Evaluation results
Hi there, I have been using Mailmate for three weeks now - with very mixed feelings. As a longtime Postbox user I've been pissed lately by the bad support of Postbox Inc and some painful bugs in the stability of Postbox - so I came to Mailmate. However Mailmate also has tons of minor and major issues. Ok, no software is bugfree. But the density of minor flaws in Mailmate (that I would not expect from a 1.9 version) is annoying. Some of my highlight bugs: - invalid counters for unread mails for *some* folders - default columns do not work as expect, reverting the default columns for a folder is not persisted properly - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without prior removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass) - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the mailboxes tree...being unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag drop - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes and sometimes not - usability issues with the signing and encryption UI where the signing/lock icons are set or enabled when it does not make sense (e.g. no key available for a recipient) Most of the issues have been reported as feedback or as bugreports. What is my point? Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the maintainer cares more about productivity and power-user features than implementing useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half implemented and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app. The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own special way - only the price differs. -aj signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
