Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Paul Sture]

On 4 Sep 2016, at 11:55, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 3 Sep 2016, at 12:24, Gary Hull wrote:

Customers may be in for a surprise if the proprietor kicks the 
bucket. MailMate itself has a bus factor = 1, but hey, we love it. 
Runbox and Fastmail appear to have a bus factor = 3 or so. Gmail has 
a bus factor = 100,000, which is also its aggravation factor.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor


I didn't know this expression, but I'm also not sure I like to think 
about the likelihood of being hit by a bus ;-)


The basic question "What happens if  gets hit by a 
bus" was around in the UK at least as far back as the 1970s, but the 
idea of a numeric factor is new to me.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 3 Sep 2016, at 12:24, Gary Hull wrote:

Customers may be in for a surprise if the proprietor kicks the bucket. 
MailMate itself has a bus factor = 1, but hey, we love it. Runbox and 
Fastmail appear to have a bus factor = 3 or so. Gmail has a bus factor 
= 100,000, which is also its aggravation factor.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor


I didn't know this expression, but I'm also not sure I like to think 
about the likelihood of being hit by a bus ;-)


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Rettke]

On 3 Sep 2016, at 5:24, Gary Hull yh82d7...@yandex.com  wrote:

Glad to hear it. You can set up aliases for accounts on runbox, which 
might help you.
The migration process is described somewhere on Benny's site, but as I 
remember you need to do something related to the Gmail tags (if you're 
using them), and make sure that all mail is in a particular Gmail 
mailbox (I think you have to move everything from the Inbox into that 
mailbox, if I remember correctly). Then you make an account in 
MailMate and sync. You've probably already done this part. Then at 
Runbox you make an account and make an account for that in MailMate. 
Finally in MailMate you select all emails in the Gmail account and 
drag them to the Runbox account. Then you wait, and depending on how 
many emails you have at Google it could be a couple of days. When it's 
all done, Google has help somewhere on how to liquidate and close you 
Gmail account.
As for alternative to Runbox, when I investigated, there was only 
Fastmail (and Gmail) if you want to use your own domain, which is 
recommended, since you own it and can move it later,   and   you 
want a bus factor > 1. All those other places are single-programmer 
projects, and some of those guys are up there in years. Customers may 
be in for a surprise if the proprietor kicks the bucket. MailMate 
itself has a bus factor = 1, but hey, we love it. Runbox and Fastmail 
appear to have a bus factor = 3 or so. Gmail has a bus factor = 
100,000, which is also its aggravation factor.


Thank for the info.

I'm still researching Runbox, one concern I haven't cleared yet is 
Calendars. I have calendars associated with some of my gmail accounts 
and I need to find out if Runbox sub accounts can each have their own 
calendar. I presume they can but need to be certain. I have all my 
various calendars feed into Busycal on the Mac & Fantastical on iOS, and 
its a critical part of my workflow. I could leave the calendars where 
they are but I really don't like the idea of having calendars and emails 
on too many platforms and since the calendars are logically tied to the 
email address I want to keep them together.


Thanks for the migration info, I do appreciate it.

Fastmail just will be too expensive at $50 a year per 'user' which I 
interpret to be email address. Runbox is quite economical for all it 
offers.


The aliases are a nice feature that I most likely won't use, nor will I 
use my own domain name. Other than two specific gmail address's to two 
specific companies, no one knows my real email address's. I have my 
domains hosted at GoDaddy but not my email The Domains come with a 
plethora of 'aliases'. So much my email has a sender that is actually an 
alias with GoDaddy. I can change my actual email provider and then just 
change where the GoDaddy aliases point and no one sees that I have 
changed anything.


I also use a product called Sneakemail which essentially provides email 
redirection like GoDaddy but with a unique email address. Like the one I 
use exclusively for this forum). In fact every vendor I deal with, 
personal or business gets a unique Sneakemail address from me. so they 
are the only company or person with that address. If I start getting 
spam on that address I know either their address book has been 
compromised or sold. Either way I generate a new address for them, 
update it with them, and then delete the address being spammed or 
sometimes I just set it to bounce if I want to maintain an audit trail. 
As of today I have 1402 unique email address's via Sneakemail, which 
sound horrendous but Sneakemail provides what, IMHO is an excellent 
minimalist interface and database to manage these address's. Even my 
non-technical wife is able to use it with no issues.


So I almost never see any spam and when I do I am able to deal with it 
in a couple minutes.



__*Richard Rettke*__
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 19:46, Zivago Lee wrote:

As mentioned, I did do this yesterday.. yet you said you did not 
receive them (it got sent to mm-feedback@). I'll just open a bug 
ticket with the attachment it made.


That's fine too, but you are also welcome to try the `mm-feedback` 
address again. If it still doesn't work then at least it's a 
reproducible issue.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Zivago Lee]

As mentioned, I did do this yesterday.. yet you said you did not receive 
them (it got sent to mm-feedback@). I'll just open a bug ticket with the 
attachment it made.


On 2 Sep 2016, at 10:36, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 2 Sep 2016, at 17:11, Zivago Lee wrote:

Yes, it's in my Sent folder of my other regular IMAP account (that 
works properly). Got a direct email? I can reforward them?


I would prefer a new set of logs as described in this email to the 
mailing list: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg06734.html


I know several users still have problems with Gmail (also with r5260), 
but I cannot reproduce it myself and I haven't yet received a set of 
logs (as described in the linked email).


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 19:11, Richard Rettke wrote:


On 2 Sep 2016, at 2:08, Gary Hull yh82d7...@yandex.com  wrote:

I moved all of my accounts from Google to Runbox and (if hosted 
there) Pair. For throwaway free accounts I made new ones at AOL and 
Yandex. Life is so much simpler now.


Thanks for the info Gary, Runbox looks promising. If it meets my needs 
I don't mind paying for it. I'm going to give the free trial a go.


You can also find alternatives here: 
http://blog.freron.com/2013/alternative-email-providers/


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 17:11, Zivago Lee wrote:

Yes, it's in my Sent folder of my other regular IMAP account (that 
works properly). Got a direct email? I can reforward them?


I would prefer a new set of logs as described in this email to the 
mailing list: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg06734.html


I know several users still have problems with Gmail (also with r5260), 
but I cannot reproduce it myself and I haven't yet received a set of 
logs (as described in the linked email).


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Rettke]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 2:08, Gary Hull yh82d7...@yandex.com  wrote:

I moved all of my accounts from Google to Runbox and (if hosted there) 
Pair. For throwaway free accounts I made new ones at AOL and Yandex. 
Life is so much simpler now.


Thanks for the info Gary, Runbox looks promising. If it meets my needs I 
don't mind paying for it. I'm going to give the free trial a go.


__*Richard Rettke*__
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

No problems for me over the night.

I'm running Version 2.0BETA (6054)

On 1 Sep 2016, at 8:58, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 17:30, Kee Hinckley wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 12:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

It also indicates that MailMate is not to blame, but that doesn't 
really solve the problem.


It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people 
who are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one 
with Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the 
attention of someone at Google.


I assume this also means that the workaround does not work for you.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Paul Sture]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 9:13, Richard Rettke wrote:


On 2 Sep 2016, at 2:08, Gary Hull yh82d7...@yandex.com  wrote:

Why deal with companies that treat you like a hacker and criminal and 
have no personal support? What is your time worth?


The main reason I stay with gmail is that I have never found anyone 
else that will allow me to have 30+ gmail accounts many with a couple 
gigabytes of emails stored. I only have 10 tied into Mailmate and most 
of the others are 'retired', but even at that I've not found anyone 
offering 10 FREE email accounts, so it's less painful to stay with 
google than it is to switch.


It's a Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) problem.  Your time or what turns 
out to be not very much money per month.


When you can get a reliable website hosting service which comes with 
unlimited email addresses for USD ~10 per month and 10 GB of space, I 
prefer to spend the money.  That's avoiding the cheap and nasty 
providers.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Zivago Lee]

Yes, it's in my Sent folder of my other regular IMAP account (that works 
properly). Got a direct email? I can reforward them?


On 2 Sep 2016, at 0:36, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 21:58, Zivago Lee wrote:


Weird.. it should have sent to the mm-feedback@ address.


Is the email in your Sent Messages folder? (Maybe it's stuck in Drafts 
due to the Gmail issue which likely also affects SMTP.)


In any case, see my most recent post on the list with regard to how to 
best create more data for me.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 9:08, Richard Rettke wrote:

On 2 Sep 2016, at 1:53, Scott A. McIntyre mailm...@howyagoin.net  
wrote:


After upgrading to the latest beta, and re-authenticating all of my 
accounts, the prompts have gone away.


This may be a clue (or it may be nothing).

I just installed and activated a VPN, a little over an hour before 
these google messages came rolling in. All of the messages listed the 
location of the 'culprit' as New York (I am in the midwest) and I know 
the VPN hides my actual location. So I'm just wondering if the 
perceived location change is what triggered google to balk. I'll leave 
the determination of that to those of you who understand this stuff 
better than I do.


As previously stated I now assume it's a MailMate issue. Otherwise I 
also think there would be issues reported for other email clients (which 
I have not seen).


But I still haven't gotten any logs as requested in my earlier email. 
Maybe it's somehow worse in the States :)


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Gary Hull]

I moved all of my accounts from Google to Runbox and (if hosted there) 
Pair. For throwaway free accounts I made new ones at AOL and Yandex. 
Life is so much simpler now.


Gmail gets hammered by all kinds of hacking schemes, so Google uses a 
high-false-positive algorithm. Any kind of forwarding or mail agent 
log-in situation is going to involve repeated web browser log-in 
requests to verify you. None of you guys are ever going to solve this 
problem. And it's not worth your time.


AOL will break maybe twice a year. Yandex, never. Runbox: You're paying 
for it, you own it, it never breaks. Google is a nightmare. I still have 
to have one Gmail account to tie into Analytics and Webmaster Tools, but 
that's all.


Why deal with companies that treat you like a hacker and criminal and 
have no personal support? What is your time worth?


On 2 Sep 2016, at 15:46, Richard Rettke wrote:


On 30 Aug 2016, at 21:02, Kee Hinckley k...@hinckley.com  wrote:

I've had MailMate ask for my password in four of my Google Apps 
accounts (three of them two-factor) a total of at least 8 times 
today. Has anyone else had any issues?


I've been watching this thread since it started and feeling fortunate 
that I have not had any issues with 10 gmail accounts I have.


So I'm sitting in front of my Mac when all of a sudden at 0127 i 
received emails and text messages from google on 5 of the accounts. 
The messages read as follows;


_Hi Richard,_

_Someone just used your password to try to sign in to your Google 
Account xxx...@gmail.com, using an application such as an email 
client or mobile device._


_Details:_
_Friday, September 2, 2016 2:21 AM (Eastern Daylight Time)_
_New York, NY, USA*_
_Google stopped this sign-in attempt, but you should review your 
recently used devices:_


I'm not sure if this is the same message everyone else has been 
getting but now I'll deal with it.


__*Richard Rettke*__
*Laus Deo*
*Non sibi sed patriae*

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 7:46, Kee Hinckley wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 12:56, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
A general update: I've gotten a report which indicates that I might 
not be able to blame Google for all problems. At least it appears 
that MailMate some times does not successfully save tokens in the 
keychain. I'll investigate this tomorrow. My working day ends now ;)


FWIW, I just reconnected all my accounts (they'd gradually hit the 
error this morning) and they all connected just fine (none of them 
asked for a password, the existing tokens were fine) and are happy for 
now. The last time I tried that some of them got errors. I'm going to 
cross my fingers and hope it's okay in the morning.


I'm glad it works for you (for now), but I don't like that I still don't 
have any idea what's going on...


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 21:58, Zivago Lee wrote:


Weird.. it should have sent to the mm-feedback@ address.


Is the email in your Sent Messages folder? (Maybe it's stuck in Drafts 
due to the Gmail issue which likely also affects SMTP.)


In any case, see my most recent post on the list with regard to how to 
best create more data for me.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Rettke]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 2:08, Gary Hull yh82d7...@yandex.com  wrote:

Why deal with companies that treat you like a hacker and criminal and 
have no personal support? What is your time worth?


I'm not familiar with some of those email vendors you mentioned so I'll 
have to check them out. The main reason I stay with gmail is that I have 
never found anyone else that will allow me to have 30+ gmail accounts 
many with a couple gigabytes of emails stored. I only have 10 tied into 
Mailmate and most of the others are 'retired', but even at that I've not 
found anyone offering 10 FREE email accounts, so it's less painful to 
stay with google than it is to switch.


__*Richard Rettke*__
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Rettke]

On 2 Sep 2016, at 1:53, Scott A. McIntyre mailm...@howyagoin.net  wrote:

After upgrading to the latest beta, and re-authenticating all of my 
accounts, the prompts have gone away.


This may be a clue (or it may be nothing).

I just installed and activated a VPN, a little over an hour before these 
google messages came rolling in. All of the messages listed the location 
of the 'culprit' as New York (I am in the midwest) and I know the VPN 
hides my actual location. So I'm just wondering if the perceived 
location change is what triggered google to balk. I'll leave the 
determination of that to those of you who understand this stuff better 
than I do.


__*Richard Rettke*__
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Scott A. McIntyre]

Hi,



On 2 September 2016, at 1646, Richard Rettke wrote:


On 30 Aug 2016, at 21:02, Kee Hinckley k...@hinckley.com  wrote:

I've had MailMate ask for my password in four of my Google Apps 
accounts (three of them two-factor) a total of at least 8 times 
today. Has anyone else had any issues?


I've been watching this thread since it started and feeling fortunate 
that I have not had any issues with 10 gmail accounts I have.


So I'm sitting in front of my Mac when all of a sudden at 0127 i 
received emails and text messages from google on 5 of the accounts. 
The messages read as follows;


_Hi Richard,_

_Someone just used your password to try to sign in to your Google 
Account xxx...@gmail.com, using an application such as an email 
client or mobile device._





[ snip ]

I also have a number of Gmail accounts configured for MailMate, and 
until this morning, no problem at all.


Then, rather swiftly, all of my accounts started having the same issue 
as previously discussed by others.


This leads me to believe that either Google had an "issue" with their 
OAuth token handling, or, they have been deploying something in 
different regions over the course of the last few days.


One thing that triggered the same issue as you, Richard, was deployment 
of IPv6 support.  Depending on $factors, sometimes my systems would be 
able to get an IPv6 connection to Gmail, other times it would only be 
IPv4 - but some IPv6 changes at my provider level also meant that every 
few hours I'd be getting a new /56 delegation (annoying) which resulted 
in lots of those sorts of messages.


Not sure if that's in any way related to what's been going on with 
MailMate and Gmail the last few days -- my sense is that it's something 
at the Google end.


After upgrading to the latest beta, and re-authenticating all of my 
accounts, the prompts have gone away.


Scott
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Rettke]

On 30 Aug 2016, at 21:02, Kee Hinckley k...@hinckley.com  wrote:

I've had MailMate ask for my password in four of my Google Apps 
accounts (three of them two-factor) a total of at least 8 times today. 
Has anyone else had any issues?


I've been watching this thread since it started and feeling fortunate 
that I have not had any issues with 10 gmail accounts I have.


So I'm sitting in front of my Mac when all of a sudden at 0127 i 
received emails and text messages from google on 5 of the accounts. The 
messages read as follows;


_Hi Richard,_

_Someone just used your password to try to sign in to your Google 
Account xxx...@gmail.com, using an application such as an email 
client or mobile device._


_Details:_
_Friday, September 2, 2016 2:21 AM (Eastern Daylight Time)_
_New York, NY, USA*_
_Google stopped this sign-in attempt, but you should review your 
recently used devices:_


I'm not sure if this is the same message everyone else has been getting 
but now I'll deal with it.


__*Richard Rettke*__
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 12:56, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:
A general update: I've gotten a report which indicates that I might 
not be able to blame Google for all problems. At least it appears that 
MailMate some times does not successfully save tokens in the keychain. 
I'll investigate this tomorrow. My working day ends now ;)


FWIW, I just reconnected all my accounts (they'd gradually hit the error 
this morning) and they all connected just fine (none of them asked for a 
password, the existing tokens were fine) and are happy for now. The last 
time I tried that some of them got errors. I'm going to cross my fingers 
and hope it's okay in the morning.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Zivago Lee]

Weird.. it should have sent to the mm-feedback@ address.

On 1 Sep 2016, at 12:56, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 21:18, Zivago Lee wrote:


You can both try the following to provide me with more data:


Sent!


I don't think I got the files?

A general update: I've gotten a report which indicates that I might 
not be able to blame Google for all problems. At least it appears that 
MailMate some times does not successfully save tokens in the keychain. 
I'll investigate this tomorrow. My working day ends now ;)


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 21:18, Zivago Lee wrote:


You can both try the following to provide me with more data:


Sent!


I don't think I got the files?

A general update: I've gotten a report which indicates that I might not 
be able to blame Google for all problems. At least it appears that 
MailMate some times does not successfully save tokens in the keychain. 
I'll investigate this tomorrow. My working day ends now ;)


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Zivago Lee]

Sent!

On 1 Sep 2016, at 10:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 18:57, Zivago Lee wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 9:54, Steve Mayer wrote:

I, unfortunately have had it occur twice since restarting with the 
new build.


Same here.


You can both try the following to provide me with more data:

* Open the Activity Viewer (⌥⌘0).
* Wait for the issue to occur a couple of times.
* Use “Help ▸ Send Server Logs”.

You can also send me these files for me to try to find any common 
pattern:


~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Sources.plist
~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Submission.plist

Thanks in advance.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 18:57, Zivago Lee wrote:


On 1 Sep 2016, at 9:54, Steve Mayer wrote:

I, unfortunately have had it occur twice since restarting with the 
new build.


Same here.


You can both try the following to provide me with more data:

* Open the Activity Viewer (⌥⌘0).
* Wait for the issue to occur a couple of times.
* Use “Help ▸ Send Server Logs”.

You can also send me these files for me to try to find any common 
pattern:


~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Sources.plist
~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Submission.plist

Thanks in advance.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Zivago Lee]

Same here.

On 1 Sep 2016, at 9:54, Steve Mayer wrote:

I, unfortunately have had it occur twice since restarting with the new 
build.


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On 1 Sep 2016, at 9:16, Richard Evans wrote:



It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people 
who
are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one 
with

Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the
attention of someone at Google.


I assume this also means that the workaround does not work for you.

--
Benny


I’ve had the gmail login problem, too, but it seems that either 
your patch worked or Google fixed it at their end. So far no more 
login problem today.


Richard

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Steve Mayer]

I, unfortunately have had it occur twice since restarting with the new 
build.


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On 1 Sep 2016, at 9:16, Richard Evans wrote:



It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people 
who

are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one with
Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the
attention of someone at Google.


I assume this also means that the workaround does not work for you.

--
Benny


I’ve had the gmail login problem, too, but it seems that either your 
patch worked or Google fixed it at their end. So far no more login 
problem today.


Richard
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Richard Evans]

It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people 
who

are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one with
Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the
attention of someone at Google.


I assume this also means that the workaround does not work for you.

--
Benny


I’ve had the gmail login problem, too, but it seems that either your 
patch worked or Google fixed it at their end. So far no more login 
problem today.


Richard
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 17:30, Kee Hinckley wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 12:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

It also indicates that MailMate is not to blame, but that doesn't 
really solve the problem.


It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people who 
are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one with 
Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the 
attention of someone at Google.


I assume this also means that the workaround does not work for you.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

On 31 Aug 2016, at 12:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

It also indicates that MailMate is not to blame, but that doesn't 
really solve the problem.


It's definitely not just MailMate, I've found several other people who 
are having problems, one with multiple logins in a browser, one with 
Jabber. They all started at the same time. I'm trying to get the 
attention of someone at Google.

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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Sep 2016, at 14:33, Steve Mayer wrote:

 Will you be making a Beta 2.0 as drop as well with the workaround?  
I'm experiencing this about 4 times a day.


I don't yet have any feedback on whether the workaround actually works, 
but I've updated the 2.0 beta as well (hold down ⌥ when clicking 
“Check Now”).


--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Steve Mayer]

Benny,

 Will you be making a Beta 2.0 as drop as well with the workaround?  
I'm experiencing this about 4 times a day.


--
Steve Mayer
smaye...@me.com

On 1 Sep 2016, at 1:45, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 21:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 20:22, Kee Hinckley wrote:

I haven't tried any of those solutions yet. I _did_ discover that 
the best way to deal with it is to hit cancel and then go reenable 
the account. Most of the time it then succeeds without the 400 
error. There's no actual need to renew the token. Sure feels like a 
Google bug. Maybe some attempt at spam limiting?


This indicates that a possible workaround for MailMate is to wait 
longer between retries before reporting it as an error (but it's an 
annoying workaround, because it's non-deterministic).


I've done this in this release: 
http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r5258.tbz


By default, MailMate now waits 0, 20, 40, and 60 seconds before each 
retry. Every time MailMate gets a new so-called access token based on 
its refresh token. If this fails then MailMate still asks to 
re-authenticate the account in order to get a new refresh token.


I haven't had much feedback on it yet and I'll appreciate if anyone 
having the Gmail issue could try it out and let me know whether or not 
it helps. Off list if you like.


Based on reports, it does not seem like the number of Gmail accounts 
matter much, but there might be an indication that it is more likely 
to happen if multiple instances of MailMate accesses the same Gmail 
account... But this is pure guesswork.


It also does not seem to matter if it's a free Gmail account or a 
business account.


--
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Aug 2016, at 21:03, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 20:22, Kee Hinckley wrote:

I haven't tried any of those solutions yet. I _did_ discover that the 
best way to deal with it is to hit cancel and then go reenable the 
account. Most of the time it then succeeds without the 400 error. 
There's no actual need to renew the token. Sure feels like a Google 
bug. Maybe some attempt at spam limiting?


This indicates that a possible workaround for MailMate is to wait 
longer between retries before reporting it as an error (but it's an 
annoying workaround, because it's non-deterministic).


I've done this in this release: 
http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r5258.tbz


By default, MailMate now waits 0, 20, 40, and 60 seconds before each 
retry. Every time MailMate gets a new so-called access token based on 
its refresh token. If this fails then MailMate still asks to 
re-authenticate the account in order to get a new refresh token.


I haven't had much feedback on it yet and I'll appreciate if anyone 
having the Gmail issue could try it out and let me know whether or not 
it helps. Off list if you like.


Based on reports, it does not seem like the number of Gmail accounts 
matter much, but there might be an indication that it is more likely to 
happen if multiple instances of MailMate accesses the same Gmail 
account... But this is pure guesswork.


It also does not seem to matter if it's a free Gmail account or a 
business account.


--
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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Aug 2016, at 20:22, Kee Hinckley wrote:

I haven't tried any of those solutions yet. I _did_ discover that the 
best way to deal with it is to hit cancel and then go reenable the 
account. Most of the time it then succeeds without the 400 error. 
There's no actual need to renew the token. Sure feels like a Google 
bug. Maybe some attempt at spam limiting?


This indicates that a possible workaround for MailMate is to wait longer 
between retries before reporting it as an error (but it's an annoying 
workaround, because it's non-deterministic).


It also indicates that MailMate is not to blame, but that doesn't really 
solve the problem.


It might be a limit on how many logins can be done within a certain time 
frame.


Note these (year+ old) comments about issues with Google OAUTH2 with 
multiple accounts. Not sure if they are relevant.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30212728/google-oauth2-and-400-bad-request-bug-on-google-side
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30511843/google-oauth2-returns-bad-request-when-logged-with-multiple-accounts


I'm not sure either, but they do indicate that the problem is unlikely 
to be that MailMate generates a bad request as reported by Google.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

I haven't tried any of those solutions yet. I _did_ discover that the 
best way to deal with it is to hit cancel and then go reenable the 
account. Most of the time it then succeeds without the 400 error. 
There's no actual need to renew the token. Sure feels like a Google bug. 
Maybe some attempt at spam limiting?


Note these (year+ old) comments about issues with Google OAUTH2 with 
multiple accounts. Not sure if they are relevant.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30212728/google-oauth2-and-400-bad-request-bug-on-google-side
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/30511843/google-oauth2-returns-bad-request-when-logged-with-multiple-accounts



On 30 Aug 2016, at 23:34, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On 31 Aug 2016, at 5:33, Kee Hinckley wrote:

At this point it's pretty much unusable. I have to go through 2-4 
password prompts for 4-6 accounts, and then an hour later, do it 
again.


The latter indicates that it happens every time MailMate has to get a 
new access token. I'm not seeing this myself (2 accounts), but two 
tweets during the night (my night) indicates that you are not alone. 
This indicates that it's not an issue only on your machine.


The logs only tell me that authentication repeatedly fails with a 
generic 400 error (I think the OAuth2 specification actually requires 
Google to be more specific, but I might be wrong). Such an issue 
currently triggers MailMate to re-authenticate the account since the 
problem could be that the wrong Gmail account has been used to 
authorize an IMAP account.


(The most recent test release of MailMate does fix an OAuth2 related 
issue, but based on your logs then this is not related to your issue.)


If it's still an issue then you might be able to fix it temporarily 
switching of OAuth2 in the IMAP account editor, but I don't recommend 
this as a general solution (and it might not work for you since Google 
does not allow it for all accounts).


You can also try to reset anything MailMate knows about OAuth2 tokens 
for this account. Open the “Keychain Access” application and look 
for entries named like this:


com.freron.MailMate.Google.oauth-*

If you delete all of them then MailMate should ask for passwords 
(again), but it won't help if the problem is at Google's end.


--
Benny




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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Aug 2016, at 5:33, Kee Hinckley wrote:

At this point it's pretty much unusable. I have to go through 2-4 
password prompts for 4-6 accounts, and then an hour later, do it 
again.


The latter indicates that it happens every time MailMate has to get a 
new access token. I'm not seeing this myself (2 accounts), but two 
tweets during the night (my night) indicates that you are not alone. 
This indicates that it's not an issue only on your machine.


The logs only tell me that authentication repeatedly fails with a 
generic 400 error (I think the OAuth2 specification actually requires 
Google to be more specific, but I might be wrong). Such an issue 
currently triggers MailMate to re-authenticate the account since the 
problem could be that the wrong Gmail account has been used to authorize 
an IMAP account.


(The most recent test release of MailMate does fix an OAuth2 related 
issue, but based on your logs then this is not related to your issue.)


If it's still an issue then you might be able to fix it temporarily 
switching of OAuth2 in the IMAP account editor, but I don't recommend 
this as a general solution (and it might not work for you since Google 
does not allow it for all accounts).


You can also try to reset anything MailMate knows about OAuth2 tokens 
for this account. Open the “Keychain Access” application and look 
for entries named like this:


com.freron.MailMate.Google.oauth-*

If you delete all of them then MailMate should ask for passwords 
(again), but it won't help if the problem is at Google's end.


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Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

At this point it's pretty much unusable. I have to go through 2-4 password
prompts for 4-6 accounts, and then an hour later, do it again.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Kee Hinckley  wrote:

> Here's a transcript for one of them.  It took 4 trys to get it to stick.
> Each time I entered the password, okayed authorization of MailMate, and
> everything looked just fine--but a moment later it would pop up again.
>
>
> 00:48:17 Handling reply
>
> 00:48:17 Running action
>
> 00:48:17 Sending request (48)
>
> 00:48:17 Handling request
>
> 00:48:17 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)
>
> 00:48:17 Synchronizing mailbox (attempting to do it quickly): [Gmail]/Trash
>
> 00:48:17 Selecting mailbox: [Gmail]/Trash
>
> 00:48:17 C: D14 LIST "[Gmail]" ""
>
> 00:48:17 S: * LIST (\Noselect) "/" "/"
>
> 00:48:17 S: D14 OK Success
>
> 00:48:17 C: D15 SELECT "[Gmail]/Trash" (CONDSTORE)
>
> 00:48:17 S: * FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen $NotPhishing
> $Phishing)
>
> 00:48:17 S: * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen
> $NotPhishing $Phishing \*)] Flags permitted.
>
> 00:48:17 S: * OK [UIDVALIDITY 7] UIDs valid.
>
> 00:48:17 S: * 0 EXISTS
>
> 00:48:17 S: * 0 RECENT
>
> 00:48:17 S: * OK [UIDNEXT 592] Predicted next UID.
>
> 00:48:17 S: * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 36858]
>
> 00:48:17 S: D15 OK [READ-WRITE] [Gmail]/Trash selected. (Success)
>
> 00:48:17 Attempting fast synchronization.
>
> 00:48:17 C: D16 UID FETCH 592:* (UID)
>
> 00:48:17 S: D16 OK Success
>
> 00:48:17 Completed action (1003). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8
>
>
> 00:48:17 Handling reply
>
> 00:50:17 Running action
>
> 00:50:17 Sending request (284)
>
> 00:50:17 Handling request
>
> 00:50:17 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)
>
> 00:50:17 Disconnecting
>
> 00:50:17 Trying to disconnect nicely (30)...
>
> 00:50:17 C: R17 LOGOUT
>
> 00:50:17 S: * BYE LOGOUT Requested
>
> 00:50:17 S: R17 OK 73 good day (Success)
>
> 00:50:17 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 00:50:17 Completed action (3). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8
>
>
> 00:50:17 Handling reply
>
> 01:07:47 Running action
>
> 01:07:47 Sending request (7)
>
> 01:07:47 Handling request
>
> 01:07:47 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)
>
> 01:07:47 Synchronizing mailbox (attempting to do it quickly): Misc
>
> 01:07:47 Selecting mailbox: Misc
>
> 01:07:47 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 01:07:47 Trying to connect to imap.gmail.com on port 993 (CFNetwork)
>
> 01:07:47 Resolved hostname (imap.gmail.com).
>
> 01:07:47 Successful connection.
>
> 01:07:47 Initiating secure connection...
>
> 01:07:47 Protocol version: kTLSProtocol12
>
> 01:07:47 S: * OK Gimap ready for requests from 24.113.137.103
> se9mb6146865pac
>
> 01:07:47 C: D0 CAPABILITY
>
> 01:07:47 S: * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST
> CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN
> AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER AUTH=XOAUTH
>
> 01:07:47 S: D0 OK Thats all she wrote! se9mb6146865pac
>
> 01:07:47 Retrieving password (keychain or user request)
>
> 01:07:47 C: D1 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 ••
>
> 01:07:47 S: + eyJzdGF0dXMiOiI0MDAiLCJzY2hlbWVzIjoiQmVhcmVyIiwic2NvcGUiOiJo
> dHRwczovL21haWwuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8ifQ==
>
> 01:07:47 C:
>
> 01:07:47 S: D1 NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Invalid credentials (Failure)
>
> 01:07:47 Error: Server response: “D1 NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Invalid
> credentials (Failure)”. Command attempted: “D1 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2
> ••”.
>
> 01:07:47 Error: OAUTH2 error is {"status":"400","schemes":"
> Bearer","scope":"https://mail.google.com/"}
>
> 01:07:47 Error code: 11
>
> 01:07:47 Failed action (1003). Reset observed read/write timeouts: 8/8
>
>
> 01:17:48 Handling reply
>
> 01:37:52 Running action
>
> 01:37:52 Sending request (566)
>
> 01:37:52 Handling request
>
> 01:37:52 Trying to disconnect nicely (30)...
>
> 01:37:52 C: R2 LOGOUT
>
> 01:37:52 S: * BYE Logout Requested se9mb6146865pac
>
> 01:37:52 S: R2 OK Quoth the raven, nevermore... se9mb6146865pac
>
> 01:37:52 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 01:37:52 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)
>
> 01:37:52 Disconnecting
>
> 01:37:52 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 01:37:52 Completed action (3). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8
>
>
> 01:37:52 Handling reply
>
> 02:09:38 Running action
>
> 02:09:38 Sending request (372)
>
> 02:09:38 Handling request
>
> 02:09:38 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 02:09:38 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)
>
> 02:09:38 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com
>
> 02:09:38 Trying to connect to imap.gmail.com on port 993 (CFNetwork)
>
> 02:09:38 Resolved hostname (imap.gmail.com).
>
> 02:09:38 Successful connection.
>
> 02:09:38 Initiating secure connection...
>
> 02:09:38 Protocol version: kTLSProtocol12
>
> 02:09:38 S: * OK Gimap ready for requests from 24.113.137.103
> e5mb23194151oib
>
> 02:09:38 C: A0 CAPABILITY
>
> 02:09:38 S: * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST
> CHILDREN 

Re: [MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

Here's a transcript for one of them.  It took 4 trys to get it to stick.
Each time I entered the password, okayed authorization of MailMate, and
everything looked just fine--but a moment later it would pop up again.


00:48:17 Handling reply

00:48:17 Running action

00:48:17 Sending request (48)

00:48:17 Handling request

00:48:17 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)

00:48:17 Synchronizing mailbox (attempting to do it quickly): [Gmail]/Trash

00:48:17 Selecting mailbox: [Gmail]/Trash

00:48:17 C: D14 LIST "[Gmail]" ""

00:48:17 S: * LIST (\Noselect) "/" "/"

00:48:17 S: D14 OK Success

00:48:17 C: D15 SELECT "[Gmail]/Trash" (CONDSTORE)

00:48:17 S: * FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen $NotPhishing
$Phishing)

00:48:17 S: * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen
$NotPhishing $Phishing \*)] Flags permitted.

00:48:17 S: * OK [UIDVALIDITY 7] UIDs valid.

00:48:17 S: * 0 EXISTS

00:48:17 S: * 0 RECENT

00:48:17 S: * OK [UIDNEXT 592] Predicted next UID.

00:48:17 S: * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 36858]

00:48:17 S: D15 OK [READ-WRITE] [Gmail]/Trash selected. (Success)

00:48:17 Attempting fast synchronization.

00:48:17 C: D16 UID FETCH 592:* (UID)

00:48:17 S: D16 OK Success

00:48:17 Completed action (1003). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8


00:48:17 Handling reply

00:50:17 Running action

00:50:17 Sending request (284)

00:50:17 Handling request

00:50:17 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)

00:50:17 Disconnecting

00:50:17 Trying to disconnect nicely (30)...

00:50:17 C: R17 LOGOUT

00:50:17 S: * BYE LOGOUT Requested

00:50:17 S: R17 OK 73 good day (Success)

00:50:17 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

00:50:17 Completed action (3). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8


00:50:17 Handling reply

01:07:47 Running action

01:07:47 Sending request (7)

01:07:47 Handling request

01:07:47 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)

01:07:47 Synchronizing mailbox (attempting to do it quickly): Misc

01:07:47 Selecting mailbox: Misc

01:07:47 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

01:07:47 Trying to connect to imap.gmail.com on port 993 (CFNetwork)

01:07:47 Resolved hostname (imap.gmail.com).

01:07:47 Successful connection.

01:07:47 Initiating secure connection...

01:07:47 Protocol version: kTLSProtocol12

01:07:47 S: * OK Gimap ready for requests from 24.113.137.103
se9mb6146865pac

01:07:47 C: D0 CAPABILITY

01:07:47 S: * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST
CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN
AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER AUTH=XOAUTH

01:07:47 S: D0 OK Thats all she wrote! se9mb6146865pac

01:07:47 Retrieving password (keychain or user request)

01:07:47 C: D1 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 ••

01:07:47 S: +
eyJzdGF0dXMiOiI0MDAiLCJzY2hlbWVzIjoiQmVhcmVyIiwic2NvcGUiOiJodHRwczovL21haWwuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8ifQ==

01:07:47 C:

01:07:47 S: D1 NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Invalid credentials (Failure)

01:07:47 Error: Server response: “D1 NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Invalid
credentials (Failure)”. Command attempted: “D1 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2
••”.

01:07:47 Error: OAUTH2 error is {"status":"400","schemes":"Bearer","scope":"
https://mail.google.com/"}

01:07:47 Error code: 11

01:07:47 Failed action (1003). Reset observed read/write timeouts: 8/8


01:17:48 Handling reply

01:37:52 Running action

01:37:52 Sending request (566)

01:37:52 Handling request

01:37:52 Trying to disconnect nicely (30)...

01:37:52 C: R2 LOGOUT

01:37:52 S: * BYE Logout Requested se9mb6146865pac

01:37:52 S: R2 OK Quoth the raven, nevermore... se9mb6146865pac

01:37:52 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

01:37:52 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)

01:37:52 Disconnecting

01:37:52 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

01:37:52 Completed action (3). Observed read/write timeouts: 8/8


01:37:52 Handling reply

02:09:38 Running action

02:09:38 Sending request (372)

02:09:38 Handling request

02:09:38 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

02:09:38 Ready to run action (retry count: 0)

02:09:38 Clearing connection to imap.gmail.com

02:09:38 Trying to connect to imap.gmail.com on port 993 (CFNetwork)

02:09:38 Resolved hostname (imap.gmail.com).

02:09:38 Successful connection.

02:09:38 Initiating secure connection...

02:09:38 Protocol version: kTLSProtocol12

02:09:38 S: * OK Gimap ready for requests from 24.113.137.103
e5mb23194151oib

02:09:38 C: A0 CAPABILITY

02:09:38 S: * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA ID XLIST
CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 XYZZY SASL-IR AUTH=XOAUTH2 AUTH=PLAIN
AUTH=PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN AUTH=OAUTHBEARER AUTH=XOAUTH

02:09:38 S: A0 OK Thats all she wrote! e5mb23194151oib

02:09:38 Retrieving password (keychain or user request)

02:09:38 C: A1 AUTHENTICATE XOAUTH2 ••

02:09:39 S: +
eyJzdGF0dXMiOiI0MDAiLCJzY2hlbWVzIjoiQmVhcmVyIiwic2NvcGUiOiJodHRwczovL21haWwuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8ifQ==

02:09:39 C:

02:09:39 S: A1 NO [AUTHENTICATIONFAILED] Invalid credentials (Failure)

02:09:39 Error: Server response: “A1 NO 

[MlMt] Google login issues?

[Kee Hinckley]

I've had MailMate ask for my password in four of my Google Apps accounts 
(three of them two-factor) a total of at least 8 times today. Has anyone 
else had any issues?

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