Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
I’ve got r5876 installed. Should I try to get r5885? Thomas On 11 Apr 2022, at 1:00, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On 9 Apr 2022, at 22:44, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: In any case, I will likely replace `emate` soon with something that does not need `python` at all. This has been done in r5885. Users of `emate` can write me directly if I've broken any functionality in the process. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 9 Apr 2022, at 22:44, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: In any case, I will likely replace `emate` soon with something that does not need `python` at all. This has been done in r5885. Users of `emate` can write me directly if I've broken any functionality in the process. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 9 Apr 2022, at 21:57, John Cooper wrote: Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote (at 1:37 AM on Saturday, Apr 9, 2022): This means `emate` still doesn't work in the latest test release (for most users on macOS 12.3). Instead, I should complete my work on a replacement for `emate`. No time frame on that though. Assuming that emate is something I'd want to help make MailMate fully functional, what's the simplest way to make it so? I don't have the full Xcode package installed, but I have installed the Xcode command-line tools, and homebrew. If I've got it right then the command line tools should be sufficient, that is, the first time you run `emate` then you'll automatically be asked to allow macOS to install “Command Line Tools” (no need for a full Xcode install). This will install `python3` which works with r5884 of MailMate. This is only relevant if you need `emate` at all (it's essentially just a wrapper for the `mailto:` URL scheme). In any case, I will likely replace `emate` soon with something that does not need `python` at all. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote (at 1:37 AM on Saturday, Apr 9, 2022): > This means `emate` still doesn't work in the latest test release (for most > users on macOS 12.3). Instead, I should complete my work on a replacement for > `emate`. No time frame on that though. Assuming that emate is something I'd want to help make MailMate fully functional, what's the simplest way to make it so? I don't have the full Xcode package installed, but I have installed the Xcode command-line tools, and homebrew. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 9 Apr 2022, at 4:23, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: Actually macOS 12.3 doesn’t include any python at all. You can get python3, but you need to install Xcode for that. You mean everyone doesn't? :-) -- Steve ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 9 Apr 2022, at 10:23, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: On 9 Apr 2022, at 10:11, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: On macOS 12.3, it broke completely when only python3 was included Actually macOS 12.3 doesn’t include any python at all. You can get python3, but you need to install Xcode for that. Of course, I completely forgot to check for that. This means `emate` still doesn't work in the latest test release (for most users on macOS 12.3). Instead, I should complete my work on a replacement for `emate`. No time frame on that though. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 9 Apr 2022, at 10:11, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: > On macOS 12.3, it broke completely when only python3 was included Actually macOS 12.3 doesn’t include any python at all. You can get python3, but you need to install Xcode for that. Alternatively you can install python3 with Homebrew: https://brew.sh/ -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 7 Apr 2022, at 0:21, Erik Mueller-Harder wrote:
I have no idea what Juice is, or Premailer (tho I can guess they’re
probably Markdown → HTML conversion libraries), or why either one
would have been selected instead of the other — but I can confirm
that with Juice selected *finally* I can again use Markdown with
MailMate!
The following is mostly to have something on record on this subject.
Both Juice and Premailer are third party utilities which can be used to
inline the use of stylesheets (CSS) in HTML email. I'll give an example.
First, here's the HTML needed to quote some text:
```html
Replied text is quoted.
```
The HTML above could be the result of, e.g., a Markdown converter (where
MailMate uses the GitHub flavour of `cmark` now). For non-Markdown
users, MailMate has its own built-in conversion to HTML.
Styling the above can be done by inserting a stylesheet within the HTML.
That could look something like this:
```css
blockquote {
color: blue;
}
```
Email clients capable of displaying HTML (with CSS) will then make sure
that blockquotes are blue. This works just like a webpage. That's all
very nice, but there is a major problem: HTML has no way to handle the
concept of replied/forwarded HTML, because HTML was designed for
webpages and not for emails. In particular, the `` tag was
not designed to be used in emails. If it was, then there would likely be
some way to have multiple stylesheets to be used at different quote
levels. (In theory, that could possibly work, but it wouldn't make HTML
emails less bloated than they already are.)
In practice, the only solution is to get rid of the separate stylesheet
and make sure all styling is done directly on the HTML tags. For the
example above, this would mean generating HTML which looks like this:
```html
Replied text is quoted.
```
That would survive nicely if embedded in another reply.
The above is a very simple example. Now, imagine one of those marketing
emails you receive which looks like a webpage by email. This might
contain a huge stylesheet doing all sorts of HTML/CSS tricks.
Essentially, anything possible in a web browser. The user might choose
to forward it and everthing then goes into a blockquote, but the
stylesheet affects everything including whatever is written above the
forwarded HTML. It needs to be inlined like the simple example above,
but this is extremely complicated (and in some cases impossible). This
is why MailMate uses a third party utility. In the past, MailMate has
used Premailer but I've not been very good at keeping it up-to-date and
some times it has broken down when Apple has changed what is included
with a default install of macOS. On macOS 12.3, it broke completely when
only `python3` was included. In the beta/test releases I've added the
option of using Juice which is based on javascript. This is both more
robust (and faster).
Note: The CSS inliner is also used when printing because this often
involves merging multiple HTML documents (there might be a way to avoid
this with the new message view, but I'm not 100% sure).
The latest test release has removed Premailer as an option on macOS 12.
Hopefully this means fewer issues for users. I understand most of the
above is likely nonsense for most users :)
I'm a bit unsure if Juice works properly all the way back to macOS 10.12
(which MailMate still supports) which is why I haven't removed Premailer
completely.
I’ll confess that for the last two or three months I’ve been using
FastMail’s web interface just so I could do the small bit of email
formatting that I need to do. I’ve been missing MailMate! It’s
good to be back.
I'm glad you are back. I'm aware that the lack of a public release
working properly on macOS 12 (and to some extent macOS 11) is a major
problem. (It's important for the future of MailMate that this changes as
soon as possible.)
Benny, I should have done it long ago, but am now an official Patron.
Thank you so much for the care and dedication you’ve poured into
this indispensable app.
Thanks for the support! The patrons are currently what keeps MailMate
running.
--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
Oh, this is most excellent! Thank you, everyone! I have no idea what Juice is, or Premailer (tho I can guess they’re probably Markdown → HTML conversion libraries), or why either one would have been selected instead of the other — but I can confirm that with Juice selected *finally* I can again use Markdown with MailMate! (See that nice bit of italics? ) I’ll confess that for the last two or three months I’ve been using FastMail’s web interface just so I could do the small bit of email formatting that I need to do. I’ve been missing MailMate! It’s good to be back. Benny, I should have done it long ago, but am now an official Patron. Thank you so much for the care and dedication you’ve poured into this indispensable app. — Erik -- 2022-04-06 15:06 · [Benny Kjær Nielsen](mailto:mailingl...@freron.com): On 6 Apr 2022, at 19:52, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: Yes, I’m using Juice. I’m on 12.3.1, which doesn’t come with Python 2.7 anymore. So I can confirm that emate doesn’t work there, currently. The good news is that it appears to be ready for Python 3: python3 bin/emate mailto -t haged...@uni-koeln.de works as expected. Ah, yes, I definitely need to look into this issue. (Apple plans to eventually remove most scripting languages currently included with macOS.) -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 6 Apr 2022, at 19:52, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > Yes, I’m using Juice. I’m on 12.3.1, which doesn’t come with Python 2.7 > anymore. So I can confirm that emate doesn’t work there, currently. The good > news is that it appears to be ready for Python 3: > > python3 bin/emate mailto -t haged...@uni-koeln.de > > works as expected. Ah, yes, I definitely need to look into this issue. (Apple plans to eventually remove most scripting languages currently included with macOS.) -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 6 Apr 2022, at 19:44, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: > On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:33, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > I have the same version of MailMate as you, I only have python3 installed, > and yet Markdown works **fine**. > > You are likely using Juice instead of Premailer although it might also be > related to the macOS release. I think there's a message on the list > indicating a change on macOS 12.3 which I haven't looked into yet. Yes, I’m using Juice. I’m on 12.3.1, which doesn’t come with Python 2.7 anymore. So I can confirm that emate doesn’t work there, currently. The good news is that it appears to be ready for Python 3: python3 bin/emate mailto -t haged...@uni-koeln.de works as expected. -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:33, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > I have the same version of MailMate as you, I only have python3 installed, > and yet Markdown works **fine**. You are likely using Juice instead of Premailer although it might also be related to the macOS release. I think there's a message on the list indicating a change on macOS 12.3 which I haven't looked into yet. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:16, Erik Mueller-Harder wrote: > Is my only recourse to figure out how to download Python 2.7 and install it > properly in `/usr/bin/`? Don't do that. Instead, go to the Composer preferences pane and switch to Juice. This should be the default, but if you ever selected Premailer manually then that'll probably override it. I'll have to look into handling this more gracefully. Premailer might still be needed on older macOS releases although I'm not 100% sure that is true any longer. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
FWIW, I have the same version of MailMate as you, I only have python3 installed, and yet Markdown works **fine**. I don’t have the Premailer bundle at all. Did you install that yourself? On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:16, Erik Mueller-Harder wrote: > And this, finally, seems to be the answer to the error that I get whenever I > attempt to send a Markdown-formatted email in MailMate. Thanks to Benny’s > recently improved error reporting, I see the following whenever I attempt to > send such a message: > > ``` > Bundle command failed (Inline CSS/9846E526-1B45-42E8-8E75-F2B47AB5FF76) > > /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer > (Python).mmbundle/Support/bin/premailer: > /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer > (Python).mmbundle/Support/premailerize: > /usr/bin/python2.7: bad interpreter: No such file or directory > > /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer > (Python).mmbundle/Support/bin/premailer: > /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer > (Python).mmbundle/Support/premailerize: > /usr/bin/python2.7: bad interpreter: No such file or directory > ``` > > (I’ve just formatted that with a code fence, but I’ll bet you all will see > the raw Markdown rather than the lightly formatted HTML that I want to send.) > > Is my only recourse to figure out how to download Python 2.7 and install it > properly in `/usr/bin/`? > > (Again, the formatting works perfectly in MailMate’s preview pane; it doesn’t > “fail” until I save the draft or send the message.) > > – Erik > MailMate 1.14 (5882) > macOS 12.3.1 > MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2021, Apple M1 Max) > > -- > 2021-08-20 21:17 · [Bill Cole](mailto:mmlist-20120...@billmail.scconsult.com): > >> On 2021-08-20 at 10:38:14 UTC-0400 (Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:38:14 +) >> Randy H. Tjahjono >> is rumored to have said: >> >>> I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will >>> occasionally get this warning >>> >>> [ "MM Warning-GIF.gif" ] >>> >>> Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to >>> https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ >>> >>> I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all >>> three, or no issue at all. >> >> All 3. >> >> MM includes a couple of Python scripts (emate and html2text) that are >> written in Python and specify Python 2.7. >> >> Python 2 is an obsolete version of the Python language. The effort to get >> everyone using Python to convert to Python 3 was a 14-year project that did >> not go well. There have been no improvements, security patches, or bug >> tracking for Python 2.7 since 2019. There are still a lot of Python 2 >> scripts embedded in other programs like MM and in production as freestanding >> software like the GNU Mailman v2 instance running this mailing list. In the >> cases where 2->3 conversion is not trivial, it has often led developers to >> completely rewrite programs (e.g Mailman v3) from scratch. >> >> Operating systems have finally started to remove Python 2.x packages from >> their official distributions and Apple is one of the last to do so. They are >> apparently including a mechanism for warning users in the Monterey beta, >> which is a good thing. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Bill Cole >> b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org >> (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) >> Not Currently Available For Hire >> ___ >> mailmate mailing list >> mailmate@lists.freron.com >> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate > ___ > mailmate mailing list > mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
And this, finally, seems to be the answer to the error that I get whenever I attempt to send a Markdown-formatted email in MailMate. Thanks to Benny’s recently improved error reporting, I see the following whenever I attempt to send such a message: ``` Bundle command failed (Inline CSS/9846E526-1B45-42E8-8E75-F2B47AB5FF76) /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer (Python).mmbundle/Support/bin/premailer: /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer (Python).mmbundle/Support/premailerize: /usr/bin/python2.7: bad interpreter: No such file or directory /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer (Python).mmbundle/Support/bin/premailer: /Users/xyzzy/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Managed/Bundles/Premailer (Python).mmbundle/Support/premailerize: /usr/bin/python2.7: bad interpreter: No such file or directory ``` (I’ve just formatted that with a code fence, but I’ll bet you all will see the raw Markdown rather than the lightly formatted HTML that I want to send.) Is my only recourse to figure out how to download Python 2.7 and install it properly in `/usr/bin/`? (Again, the formatting works perfectly in MailMate’s preview pane; it doesn’t “fail” until I save the draft or send the message.) – Erik MailMate 1.14 (5882) macOS 12.3.1 MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2021, Apple M1 Max) -- 2021-08-20 21:17 · [Bill Cole](mailto:mmlist-20120...@billmail.scconsult.com): > On 2021-08-20 at 10:38:14 UTC-0400 (Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:38:14 +) > Randy H. Tjahjono > is rumored to have said: > >> I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will >> occasionally get this warning >> >> [ "MM Warning-GIF.gif" ] >> >> Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to >> https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ >> >> I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, >> or no issue at all. > > All 3. > > MM includes a couple of Python scripts (emate and html2text) that are written > in Python and specify Python 2.7. > > Python 2 is an obsolete version of the Python language. The effort to get > everyone using Python to convert to Python 3 was a 14-year project that did > not go well. There have been no improvements, security patches, or bug > tracking for Python 2.7 since 2019. There are still a lot of Python 2 scripts > embedded in other programs like MM and in production as freestanding software > like the GNU Mailman v2 instance running this mailing list. In the cases > where 2->3 conversion is not trivial, it has often led developers to > completely rewrite programs (e.g Mailman v3) from scratch. > > Operating systems have finally started to remove Python 2.x packages from > their official distributions and Apple is one of the last to do so. They are > apparently including a mechanism for warning users in the Monterey beta, > which is a good thing. > > > > > > -- > Bill Cole > b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org > (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) > Not Currently Available For Hire > ___ > mailmate mailing list > mailmate@lists.freron.com > https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 2021-08-20 at 10:38:14 UTC-0400 (Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:38:14 +) Randy H. Tjahjono is rumored to have said: I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will occasionally get this warning  Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, or no issue at all. All 3. MM includes a couple of Python scripts (emate and html2text) that are written in Python and specify Python 2.7. Python 2 is an obsolete version of the Python language. The effort to get everyone using Python to convert to Python 3 was a 14-year project that did not go well. There have been no improvements, security patches, or bug tracking for Python 2.7 since 2019. There are still a lot of Python 2 scripts embedded in other programs like MM and in production as freestanding software like the GNU Mailman v2 instance running this mailing list. In the cases where 2->3 conversion is not trivial, it has often led developers to completely rewrite programs (e.g Mailman v3) from scratch. Operating systems have finally started to remove Python 2.x packages from their official distributions and Apple is one of the last to do so. They are apparently including a mechanism for warning users in the Monterey beta, which is a good thing. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
I am running build 5820 On Fri Aug 20, 2021 at 09:43 AM, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: On 20 Aug 2021, at 16:38, Randy H. Tjahjono wrote: I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will occasionally get this warning [ "MM Warning-GIF.gif" ] Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, or no issue at all. Which version of MailMate do you have? When you’re running a macOS beta, you should also be running the most recent MailMate beta: [MailMate_r5820.tbz](https://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r5820.tbz) -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
On 20 Aug 2021, at 16:38, Randy H. Tjahjono wrote: > I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will > occasionally get this warning > > [ "MM Warning-GIF.gif" ] > > Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to > https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ > > I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, > or no issue at all. > Which version of MailMate do you have? When you’re running a macOS beta, you should also be running the most recent MailMate beta: [MailMate_r5820.tbz](https://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r5820.tbz) -- .:.Sebastian Hagedorn - Weyertal 121 (Gebäude 133), Zimmer 2.02.:. .:.Regionales Rechenzentrum (RRZK).:. .:.Universität zu Köln / Cologne University - ✆ +49-221-470-89578.:. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME digital signature ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning
I'm running the Monterey beta, and when launching MailMate I will occasionally get this warning  Clicking on the *Learn More* link takes me to https://www.python.org/doc/sunset-python-2/ I'm not sure if this is an issue with Monterey, MailMate, Python, all three, or no issue at all. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
