Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
Just to report back: I have been using the new feature, that is I converted the thresholds from weeks and months to days and activated the once per day condition, for almost a week. It works fine and does exactly what I wanted. The volume of mails to check is, however, as I was afraid, a bit too high, so it would be great if another option was added to check twice a day. Four times a day might not be needed after all. I haven’t quite figured out what time exactly is used for the check. I suspect it might be the time I set the condition since the mails to delete show up some time during the day. It might be indeed a good idea to be able to (optionally) specify the check time in the settings. I mean the time of the day after which the once-a-day (or whatever the time period is active) check runs. It could be a hidden option for what I care. Robert On 25 Oct 2018, at 11:30, Robert Brenstein wrote: If that is correct, that would be too seldom. I delete like 200 to 500 emails a day, so the deletion queue would accumulate quite a bit over the month, way beyond what I can inspect optically (occasionally, I archive some mails after all). Using 365 days instead of 12 months would round it to the beginning of a day instead. Ah, okay, I will try that, although as I said 1 day is really too long for the volume of mail I have. regardless whether I count days, weeks or months. I am guessing that you probably wouldn’t have to change much the actual execution for that option, just add the interface to set it. Well, you could simply add further options to that popup, like daily at 1am, daily at 7am, daily at 1pm, daily at 7pm. Yeah, 4 options for time would do, me thinks. Until someone comes along saying that 2pm is much better than 1pm. Yeah, that could be a global setting. I guess this would kind of be like using “not within past 6 hours” but limited to the start of every 6 hours. This is hard to communicate/understand and probably not very useful in general. Yes, that is what I am after. Checking once a day would be fine if I was not inspecting the list. Since I do, it should not be too long. Maybe it's better done using a global setting which forces all date-based conditions (except hours/minutes) to only update at specific times of the day. Technically, I think this is a bit tricky to get right though... The problem with a global setting is that some mailboxes should continue to update all the time whereas some should update only on a schedule. I use both. However, as indicated above, a global setting could specify the reference time for each user and mailboxes could be set to check every 6 or every 12 hours from that time, as needed. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
If that is correct, that would be too seldom. I delete like 200 to 500 emails a day, so the deletion queue would accumulate quite a bit over the month, way beyond what I can inspect optically (occasionally, I archive some mails after all). Using 365 days instead of 12 months would round it to the beginning of a day instead. Ah, okay, I will try that, although as I said 1 day is really too long for the volume of mail I have. regardless whether I count days, weeks or months. I am guessing that you probably wouldn’t have to change much the actual execution for that option, just add the interface to set it. Well, you could simply add further options to that popup, like daily at 1am, daily at 7am, daily at 1pm, daily at 7pm. Yeah, 4 options for time would do, me thinks. Until someone comes along saying that 2pm is much better than 1pm. Yeah, that could be a global setting. I guess this would kind of be like using “not within past 6 hours” but limited to the start of every 6 hours. This is hard to communicate/understand and probably not very useful in general. Yes, that is what I am after. Checking once a day would be fine if I was not inspecting the list. Since I do, it should not be too long. Maybe it's better done using a global setting which forces all date-based conditions (except hours/minutes) to only update at specific times of the day. Technically, I think this is a bit tricky to get right though... The problem with a global setting is that some mailboxes should continue to update all the time whereas some should update only on a schedule. I use both. However, as indicated above, a global setting could specify the reference time for each user and mailboxes could be set to check every 6 or every 12 hours from that time, as needed. Robert___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 11 Oct 2018, at 0:37, Robert Brenstein wrote: Oh, I somehow missed your adding that option. I just checked and see it, although some explanation is needed. If I have a mailbox with the condition “date-received is not within last 12 months” what does the option “limit at start of the month” exactly do? At first reading, it sounds like it will check only once a month. It'll round of to the beginning of a month. “within 1 month” would be October 1st. “within 2 months” would be September 1st. If that is correct, that would be too seldom. I delete like 200 to 500 emails a day, so the deletion queue would accumulate quite a bit over the month, way beyond what I can inspect optically (occasionally, I archive some mails after all). Using 365 days instead of 12 months would round it to the beginning of a day instead. My suggestion would be to offer further options: once a month, once a week, once a day if counting months, once a week, once a day if counting weeks, etc. However, the most optimal, at least for me, would be if I could specify the time of the day for the check to execute, This is not really how it works. It is not a set of check times. It's a condition on the date being greater or lower than some specific value. A given message either matches the condition or it doesn't. It becomes part of the set exactly when it matches the condition. regardless whether I count days, weeks or months. I am guessing that you probably wouldn’t have to change much the actual execution for that option, just add the interface to set it. Well, you could simply add further options to that popup, like daily at 1am, daily at 7am, daily at 1pm, daily at 7pm. Yeah, 4 options for time would do, me thinks. Until someone comes along saying that 2pm is much better than 1pm. I guess this would kind of be like using “not within past 6 hours” but limited to the start of every 6 hours. This is hard to communicate/understand and probably not very useful in general. Maybe it's better done using a global setting which forces all date-based conditions (except hours/minutes) to only update at specific times of the day. Technically, I think this is a bit tricky to get right though... -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
Oh, I somehow missed your adding that option. I just checked and see it, although some explanation is needed. If I have a mailbox with the condition “date-received is not within last 12 months” what does the option “limit at start of the month” exactly do? At first reading, it sounds like it will check only once a month. If that is correct, that would be too seldom. I delete like 200 to 500 emails a day, so the deletion queue would accumulate quite a bit over the month, way beyond what I can inspect optically (occasionally, I archive some mails after all). My suggestion would be to offer further options: once a month, once a week, once a day if counting months, once a week, once a day if counting weeks, etc. However, the most optimal, at least for me, would be if I could specify the time of the day for the check to execute, regardless whether I count days, weeks or months. I am guessing that you probably wouldn’t have to change much the actual execution for that option, just add the interface to set it. Well, you could simply add further options to that popup, like daily at 1am, daily at 7am, daily at 1pm, daily at 7pm. Yeah, 4 options for time would do, me thinks. On 10 Oct 2018, at 21:02, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: If you go back to these date conditions then the comparison popup should have an option to limit matching emails to the start of the day or the start of the month. This would have the effect of bumping the count only once a day (or month). This is the default behavior for date comparisons now (but it doesn't affect date conditions already created). ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 10 Oct 2018, at 17:30, Robert Brenstein wrote: I have several mailboxes that show me old mails that are due to be deleted, some after 30 days, some 6 months, some 1 year. Notably, I do not use automatic deletion as I want to check them before deletion. Those smart mailboxes user date-received as the condition and that works really well. I have submitted in lighthouse an enhancement request, though, to be able to set how often those mailboxes update. Ideally, I’d like to deal with deletions only once or twice a day — the increasing counters prompt me (not force me but I feel compelled) to delete several times a day. If you go back to these date conditions then the comparison popup should have an option to limit matching emails to the start of the day or the start of the month. This would have the effect of bumping the count only once a day (or month). This is the default behavior for date comparisons now (but it doesn't affect date conditions already created). -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
I have several mailboxes that show me old mails that are due to be deleted, some after 30 days, some 6 months, some 1 year. Notably, I do not use automatic deletion as I want to check them before deletion. Those smart mailboxes user date-received as the condition and that works really well. I have submitted in lighthouse an enhancement request, though, to be able to set how often those mailboxes update. Ideally, I’d like to deal with deletions only once or twice a day — the increasing counters prompt me (not force me but I feel compelled) to delete several times a day. Robert On 10 Oct 2018, at 14:23, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote: * There's no way to make deletion happen 30 days after a message has been added to a mailbox. The closest is to base it on the virtual “Date-Last-Viewed” header, but this won't work well for messages never viewed or messages viewed on a different machine. It might make sense to introduce a virtual date header which remembers when a message was first seen by MailMate in its current IMAP mailbox. I'll give that some thought. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 10 Oct 2018, at 0:46, Randall Gellens wrote: On 8 Oct 2018, at 10:52, Randy Bush wrote: clearly i do not understand how a smart mailbox is different than a stupid one Think of a smart mailbox as a continually executed search. You can perform actions on messages that meet the search criteria. Yes, a smart mailbox is just a saved search. Technically, everything in MailMate is a search including the IMAP mailboxes (but that's an implementation detail). Some other comments for this thread: * Smart mailboxes are always up-to-date. The only exception is if, e.g., marking something as read in a mailbox of unread messages. Updating is then delayed until the mailbox is deselected (MailMate has go through hoops to make this happen because up-to-date is its modus operandi). * Smart mailboxes involving date-based conditions are updated exactly when the date condition is met. MailMate sets up a timer after figuring out which message is the next one to be added to or removed from the mailbox. * There's no way to make deletion happen 30 days after a message has been added to a mailbox. The closest is to base it on the virtual “Date-Last-Viewed” header, but this won't work well for messages never viewed or messages viewed on a different machine. It might make sense to introduce a virtual date header which remembers when a message was first seen by MailMate in its current IMAP mailbox. I'll give that some thought. -- Benny https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/ ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 8 Oct 2018, at 10:52, Randy Bush wrote: clearly i do not understand how a smart mailbox is different than a stupid one Think of a smart mailbox as a continually executed search. You can perform actions on messages that meet the search criteria. --Randall ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
Bill Cole wrote (at 10:28 on 8 Oct 2018): A user NEVER directly adds a message to a Smart Mailbox. Perhaps this is true at some technical level, but in terms of what the user can do and see, it's not. For sorting and accessibility purposes, I have a number of smart mailboxes that only point to a corresponding IMAP mailbox. I drag messages directly into those smart mailboxes all the time. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
so i think i accidentally got it right from your instructions. i created a smart mailbox which referes to all the mailboxes where i want delete limits, see attached. so i should just be patient and the smart mailbox will do the imap thing on the referenced mailboxes at some unspecified time? randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 8 Oct 2018, at 16:47, Randy Bush wrote: > so i think i accidentally got it right from your instructions. > > i created a smart mailbox which referes to all the mailboxes where i > want delete limits, see attached. > > so i should just be patient and the smart mailbox will do the imap thing > on the referenced mailboxes at some unspecified time? If you have the Conditions and Rules configured as described, yes. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 8 Oct 2018, at 13:52, Randy Bush wrote:
A user NEVER directly adds a message to a Smart Mailbox.
but i delete and send mail, and it is Deleted and Sent i have
configured
to delete older
I am working on the assumption that Deleted and Sent are real IMAP
mailboxes in your account ("Source" mailboxes, in MM jargon,) which is
why you need to create Smart Mailboxes as I described to make the
expiration actually happen.
The combined criteria of the Source Mailboxes plus the Conditions add
messages to a Smart Mailbox.
clearly i do not understand how a smart mailbox is different than a
stupid one
Smart Mailboxes are logical constructs that have no existence outside of
a logical definition in your MailMate configuration and how MailMate
presents a collection of matching messages to you. They don't exist as a
set of message files in a Maildir directory or as messages concatenated
into a mbox file or any other mechanism of bundling stored messages
together. The IMAP server knows nothing of Smart Mailboxes and neither
does MM's local message cache.
The IMAP server has a hierarchical tree of mailboxes that MailMate
refers to as Source Mailboxes and MailMate stores all messages in a
cache that mirrors the IMAP hierarchy. The user or a MailMate rule can
move messages arbitrarily between Source Mailboxes (and that movement is
passed upstream to the IMAP server) but Smart Mailboxes contain messages
based only on their logical definition consisting of Source Mailboxes
and Conditions. You can't drag a message to a Smart Mailbox or use the
"Message->Move to Mailbox..." to move a message into a Smart Mailbox,
you can only adjust the Source Mailboxes and Conditions to cause
MailMate to select the matching messages.
Complicating matters, MM also presents unified special-purpose mailboxes
containing the aggregation of messages from the special-purpose
mailboxes across all IMAP accounts: Inbox, Sent Messages, Deleted
Messages, Archive, Drafts, and Junk. These are akin to MM Smart
Mailboxes but lack configurable Sources (which are selected by setting
the "Mailbox Type" on Sources) and you probably should avoid the
temptation of reducing their contents by adding Conditions. The
mechanism I described depends on date-based Conditions to "add" messages
to the operative mailboxes when they hit their expiration age, which is
what triggers the deleting rule. Hence, it cannot be used with unified
special-purpose mailboxes and requires one discrete Smart Mailbox for
each set of expiration rules.
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Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
That won’t work. You need another smart mailbox which looks into the trash and sent mailboxes and deletes old messages. On 8 Oct 2018, at 19:52, Randy Bush wrote: but i delete and send mail, and it is Deleted and Sent i have configured to delete older ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
> A user NEVER directly adds a message to a Smart Mailbox. but i delete and send mail, and it is Deleted and Sent i have configured to delete older > The combined criteria of the Source Mailboxes plus the Conditions add > messages to a Smart Mailbox. clearly i do not understand how a smart mailbox is different than a stupid one randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 8 Oct 2018, at 11:55, Randy Bush wrote: excuse me for being a bit slow but 2 different Smart Mailbox approaches: 1. Mailboxes: Any of Sent, Trash; Conditions: Date is not within last 30 days; Rule: Conditions=[just exempting conditions] Action=Delete Permanently so when does it run this? The *RULE* is run when a message is "added" to the Smart Mailbox, i.e. when a message in the source mailboxes meets the Smart Mailbox conditions. so if i try to add a message which is older than 30 days to the mailbox it will be deleted. not a very common circumstance. :) You snipped the (probably badly worded) relevant bit: How exactly MM notices the "addition" of messages to a Smart Mailbox isn't 100% clear, but I *think* it is triggered by appearance of new messages in IMAP mailboxes or changes in the metadata of existing messages that either MM does itself or is alerted to by the IMAP server during a sync operation. A user NEVER directly adds a message to a Smart Mailbox. The combined criteria of the Source Mailboxes plus the Conditions add messages to a Smart Mailbox. How exactly MM notices that "addition" in the case of a Date criterium (i.e. the absolute Date does not actually change) I am not sure, but I know from having a mailbox working this way that MM definitely does notice the "addition" and does run the rule. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
excuse me for being a bit slow but >>> 2 different Smart Mailbox approaches: >>> 1. Mailboxes: Any of Sent, Trash; >>> Conditions: Date is not within last 30 days; >>> Rule: Conditions=[just exempting conditions] >>>Action=Delete Permanently >> >> so when does it run this? > > The *RULE* is run when a message is "added" to the Smart Mailbox, > i.e. when a message in the source mailboxes meets the Smart Mailbox > conditions. so if i try to add a message which is older than 30 days to the mailbox it will be deleted. not a very common circumstance. :) randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 8 Oct 2018, at 0:40, Randy Bush wrote: so, with the new hidden pref(s), anyone have a recipe for hard expunging sent and trashed messages> say 30 days? 2 different Smart Mailbox approaches: 1. Mailboxes: Any of Sent, Trash; Conditions: Date is not within last 30 days; Rule: Conditions=[just exempting conditions] Action=Delete Permanently so when does it run this? The *RULE* is run when a message is "added" to the Smart Mailbox, i.e. when a message in the source mailboxes meets the Smart Mailbox conditions. How exactly MM notices the "addition" of messages to a Smart Mailbox isn't 100% clear, but I *think* it is triggered by appearance of new messages in IMAP mailboxes or changes in the metadata of existing messages that either MM does itself or is alerted to by the IMAP server during a sync operation. ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
>> so, with the new hidden pref(s), anyone have a recipe for hard >> expunging sent and trashed messages> say 30 days? > > 2 different Smart Mailbox approaches: > 1. Mailboxes: Any of Sent, Trash; > Conditions: Date is not within last 30 days; > Rule: Conditions=[just exempting conditions] >Action=Delete Permanently so when does it run this? randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:27 (-0400), Randy Bush wrote: so, with the new hidden pref(s), anyone have a recipe for hard expunging sent and trashed messages > say 30 days? 2 different Smart Mailbox approaches: 1. Mailboxes: Any of Sent, Trash; Conditions: Date is not within last 30 days; Rule: Conditions=[just exempting conditions] Action=Delete Permanently 2. Mailboxes: All Messages; Conditions: Any of: Tags/Keywords include \Deleted, Received Does Not Exist; Rule: Conditions=Date is not within last 30 days [and any exemptions] Action=Delete Permanently I use something like #1 to manage my flood of list mail: Most messages in the mailbox sub-tree I use for public mailing lists get auto-deleted after 30 days. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Currently Seeking Steady Work: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
so, with the new hidden pref(s), anyone have a recipe for hard expunging sent and trashed messages > say 30 days? randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
Re: [MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
On 14 Mar 2018, at 6:07, Randy Bush wrote: my search fu is failing me. how do i set an expire on a mailbox, particularly Deleted and Sent? An “expire”? You mean automatic deletion after X days? You have to create a smart mailbox based on one or both of these mailboxes. This mailbox should have a condition with something like: Date-Received is not within last 180 days Finally, create a rule which has no conditions, but the action “Delete Permanently”. This workaround is necessary because rules are currently only checked when a message “arrives” in the mailbox. In other words, if the rule was added directly to “Deleted Messages” then it wouldn't trigger unless you added an email to the mailbox which was already more than 180 days old. Also note that this doesn't count the days gone by since a message was deleted. It counts the days since it was sent/received. I hope this helps. -- Benny ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
[MlMt] expiring deleted and sent
my search fu is failing me. how do i set an expire on a mailbox, particularly Deleted and Sent? randy ___ mailmate mailing list mailmate@lists.freron.com https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
