Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Thomas Walter
Hey guys, I am not sure I understand your issues correctly, but... Am 13.06.18 um 20:47 schrieb Michael Rathbun: Based on the usual crude tracking pixel and click-tracking links, we often see open rates at hotmail/msn/etc at under half those seen elsewhere. Does this happen "recently"? Then

Re: [mailop] SNDS Volume Issue

2018-06-13 Thread Benjamin BILLON
Yes. Similarly, some IPs sending more than 100 messages per day to Outlook.com don't get any line in SNDS. The drop of volume you're mentioning might be an explanation to it. -- Benjamin De : mailop De la part de Kent McGovern Envoyé : jeudi 14 juin 2018 02:51 À : mailop Objet : [mailop] SNDS

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Wise via mailop
I can't see that being the explanation. Those insights would be best stored elsewhere. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Got the Junk Mail Reporting

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Rathbun
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 20:20:27 +, Vladimir Gabrielescu wrote: >It could be the focus inbox effect. If the user ignores your mail long enough >then they don’t even see it And there would need to be a mechanism for that to happen. If the mechanism defined by the provider is "make

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Vladimir Gabrielescu
It could be the focus inbox effect. If the user ignores your mail long enough then they don’t even see it > On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:48 PM, Michael Rathbun wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 10:13:35 -0600, Paul Kincaid-Smith > wrote: > >> if Microsoft's filters were aggressively moving heaps of

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Rathbun
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 13:44:03 -0600, Paul Kincaid-Smith wrote: >Yes, the vast majority of mailboxes in EmailGrades' panel are actively used >by real humans who send and receive email. (But even so, I wouldn't count >on people replying to most legitimate commercial email like promotions or

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Paul Kincaid-Smith
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Rathbun wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 18:46:53 +, Michael Wise < > michael.w...@microsoft.com> > wrote: > > > > >Do these accounts ever *SEND* email? > >… Asking for a friend. > > Ours don't. No idea about Paul's sampling methods. > > mdr > > Yes,

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Wise via mailop
This doesn't sound right, and I'm asking around. The system knows if you've opened email from a given sender previously, and it’s not a binary value, but I'd be surprised if it stores that data in the Safe Senders list. The system also knows if you've REPLIED to that sender. Aloha,

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Stefano Bagnara
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 at 20:50, Michael Rathbun wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 10:13:35 -0600, Paul Kincaid-Smith > wrote: > > >if Microsoft's filters were aggressively moving heaps of *wanted* email out > >of > >the inbox, I'd expect Outlook's read rates to be lower, but my metrics show > >that

[mailop] SNDS Volume Issue

2018-06-13 Thread Kent McGovern
Is anyone else seeing issues with the volume reported in SNDS? One of our senders who is on a dedicated IP consistently sends 120-150K/ day to Hotmail/Outlook, but starting June 6 SNDS is showing the volume in the low hundreds. Their complaint rate shot up in SNDS as well due to the decreased

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Rathbun
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 18:46:53 +, Michael Wise wrote: > >Do these accounts ever *SEND* email? >… Asking for a friend. Ours don't. No idea about Paul's sampling methods. mdr ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Rathbun
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 10:13:35 -0600, Paul Kincaid-Smith wrote: >if Microsoft's filters were aggressively moving heaps of *wanted* email out of >the inbox, I'd expect Outlook's read rates to be lower, but my metrics show >that read rates at Outlook are often in line with read rates at Gmail and

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Paul Kincaid-Smith
Hi MDR, Like you, we see promotional/marketing email achieve much lower inbox placement rates at Outlook compared to other ISPs like Gmail, Yahoo! and AOL. Even from responsible senders. At EmailGrades we analyze billions of data points a month using panel data for ESP-wide performance analysis

[mailop] Hotmail/msn/lutlook performing unsolicited updates to users' safe- and blocked-sender lists?

2018-06-13 Thread Michael Rathbun
We have a product, GreenArrow Monitor, that is a fairly standard inbox rate monitoring tool. Senders incorporate the Monitor seed list, our robot collects and collates the data, users see the results, merriment may or may not ensue. Recently we had occasion to investigate weirdness in Hotmail