[mailop] Anyone else see that earthlink.net lost its MX records?

[Frank Bulk]

Anyone else see that earthlink.net lost its MX records?  We saw it from
~1:15 U.S. Central to ~4:15 pm.

 

Huge spike on downdetector, too:

https://downdetector.com/status/earthlink

 

Frank 

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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Philip Paeps]

On 2018-11-06 03:53:47 (-0800), Benoit Panizzon wrote:

We again face problems with services by MailChimp.

Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending 
permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.


In my experience, MailChimp is quite good about responding to abuse.  I 
get quite a fair number of spamtrap hits from them (mostly to 
info@/sales@/etc addresses, not as much to addresses harvested from 
webpages) and it's very rare to see the same spammer hit the spamtraps 
twice after I've reported them to MailChimp.  And I'm smart enough not 
to report abuse to all the spamtraps so they're (probably) not merely 
listwashing.


So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about 
MailChimp?


* Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
* Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as 
collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?


As others have pointed out, blocking them outright is likely going to 
upset your users.


Passing email from MailChimp through per-user trained Bayesian content 
filtering seems to be reasonably effective for me.  Some unwanted email 
still ends up in the inbox but most ends up in Junk where it belongs.


Philip

--
Philip Paeps
Senior Reality Engineer
Ministry of Information

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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Michael Peddemors]

On 2018-11-06 11:10 a.m., Benjamin BILLON wrote:

Could be discussed on Spam-L rather than here, but I believe you're talking about EasEye 
(no "y" in the middle); it's an ESP from Shanghai, noticeable in China.
Do you need to know something about them, or are you just stating they don't 
respect best practices --or laws?

--
Benjamin


More curiosity, how long they have been in business, how big the IP 
space is, and their relationship to the parent in the SWIP, etc..


Received: from mx216.sx64.email-deliver.com (HELO 
mx216.sx64.email-deliver.com) (118.192.64.216)


No URL related to email-deliver.com, (or many of the other domains in 
use), and not much to go by in headers..


X-EASEYEUID: 7889443-272549-542-6580
Precedence: bulk
X-Easeye-ExpirationDate:  2018-11-13 19:24:43
List-Unsubscribe: 


X-PRECENDENCE: 0
X-Easeye-MailSeq: 4
X-DELAYHEADER: 0-0-5-0

And whether the ESP is actually from china, or a North American operator 
operating off shore..







-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of Michael Peddemors
Sent: mardi 6 novembre 2018 19:15
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam 
problem?

Like any organization, when the volume of unwanted exceeds the volume of 
wanted, you flag them... and let customers 'This is not junk' the ones they 
want.

Only way around this conundrum is to empower your users.

And while we also see they abuse problem, as pointed out they aren't the worst..

Speaking of, has anyone heard of a player using Chinese IP space called 
EasyEye, using 118.192.64.0/21 IP Space?

So far, only seen them in spam reports, but they might be a new player..



On 2018-11-06 3:53 a.m., Benoit Panizzon wrote:

Hi List

We again face problems with services by MailChimp.

Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending
permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.

They repeatedly get blacklisted on our platform, because of recipient
complaints.

Then repeatedly customers having subscribed to newsletters from
serious companies complain to us, because mailchimp is blocked by our
anti-spam services.

The customer reporting spam are not those who subscribed to
newsletters, forget about it and them report opt-in emails as spam.

No, the problem is that MailChimp operates under 'US' marketing laws
where the sender is only obliged to provide an 'opt-out' link in spam
he sends and does not have to require the recipient to have a
validated opt-in to get advertisement emails.

So often, the spamers use harvested email addresses (even spamtraps we
have hidden of websites) or lists they bought online.

The other problem is about GDPR, where laws in most European countries
require the sender of advertisement to disclose the source of data of
a recipient to this recipient.

Spamers sending email over mailchimp are clever. The links in the
email point to some anonymous redirection services to mailchimp
themselves or to domains registered via anonymizing proxies. Payment
work over paypal and if you have been trying to get at the identity of
a fraudster who took money via paypal, you know this is not possible.
So the recipient of spam needs to contact the 'sender' aka MailChimp
and requires MailChimp to disclose the identity of the sender, which
MailChimp then again rejects pointing to US privacy laws which require
them not to disclose the identity of their customers. Safe Heaven for
Spamer!

MailChimp does close accounts for which they get a certain number of
complaints, but they fail to recognize and block the same spamer who
repeatedly opens news accounts.

So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about
MailChimp?

* Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
* Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as
collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-





--
"Catch the Magic of Linux..."

Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic A Wizard IT Company - For More Info 
http://www.wizard.ca "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower 
TechnoServices Ltd.

604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada

This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those 
of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company.

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--
"Catch the Magic of 

Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Benjamin BILLON]

Could be discussed on Spam-L rather than here, but I believe you're talking 
about EasEye (no "y" in the middle); it's an ESP from Shanghai, noticeable in 
China.
Do you need to know something about them, or are you just stating they don't 
respect best practices --or laws?

--
Benjamin

-Original Message-
From: mailop  On Behalf Of Michael Peddemors
Sent: mardi 6 novembre 2018 19:15
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam 
problem?

Like any organization, when the volume of unwanted exceeds the volume of 
wanted, you flag them... and let customers 'This is not junk' the ones they 
want.

Only way around this conundrum is to empower your users.

And while we also see they abuse problem, as pointed out they aren't the worst..

Speaking of, has anyone heard of a player using Chinese IP space called 
EasyEye, using 118.192.64.0/21 IP Space?

So far, only seen them in spam reports, but they might be a new player..



On 2018-11-06 3:53 a.m., Benoit Panizzon wrote:
> Hi List
> 
> We again face problems with services by MailChimp.
> 
> Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending 
> permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.
> 
> They repeatedly get blacklisted on our platform, because of recipient 
> complaints.
> 
> Then repeatedly customers having subscribed to newsletters from 
> serious companies complain to us, because mailchimp is blocked by our 
> anti-spam services.
> 
> The customer reporting spam are not those who subscribed to 
> newsletters, forget about it and them report opt-in emails as spam.
> 
> No, the problem is that MailChimp operates under 'US' marketing laws 
> where the sender is only obliged to provide an 'opt-out' link in spam 
> he sends and does not have to require the recipient to have a 
> validated opt-in to get advertisement emails.
> 
> So often, the spamers use harvested email addresses (even spamtraps we 
> have hidden of websites) or lists they bought online.
> 
> The other problem is about GDPR, where laws in most European countries 
> require the sender of advertisement to disclose the source of data of 
> a recipient to this recipient.
> 
> Spamers sending email over mailchimp are clever. The links in the 
> email point to some anonymous redirection services to mailchimp 
> themselves or to domains registered via anonymizing proxies. Payment 
> work over paypal and if you have been trying to get at the identity of 
> a fraudster who took money via paypal, you know this is not possible. 
> So the recipient of spam needs to contact the 'sender' aka MailChimp 
> and requires MailChimp to disclose the identity of the sender, which 
> MailChimp then again rejects pointing to US privacy laws which require 
> them not to disclose the identity of their customers. Safe Heaven for 
> Spamer!
> 
> MailChimp does close accounts for which they get a certain number of 
> complaints, but they fail to recognize and block the same spamer who 
> repeatedly opens news accounts.
> 
> So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about 
> MailChimp?
> 
> * Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
> * Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as
>collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen
> 
> -Benoît Panizzon-
> 



--
"Catch the Magic of Linux..."

Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic A Wizard IT Company - For 
More Info http://www.wizard.ca "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard 
Tower TechnoServices Ltd.

604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada

This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those 
of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company.

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Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Johann Klasek]

On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 05:23:47PM +, Mathias Ullrich wrote:
> A bounce could be called ???Rückläufer??? but a ???bounce??? works totally 
> fine, never saw a ???Rückläufer Rate??? in a reporting of a German sender 

I'm also (located in Austria) commonly using "bounce" as an assimilated
foreign word. In ticket conversations I use from time to time
"Rückläufer" (only if the context is very clear).

Also a common variant in my usage for bounce is NDR (for Non Delivery
Report). Not that suitable for customer conversations, but a nice
abbreviation for talks with tech guys ...

Cheers,

Johann


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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Michael Peddemors]

Like any organization, when the volume of unwanted exceeds the volume of 
wanted, you flag them... and let customers 'This is not junk' the ones 
they want.


Only way around this conundrum is to empower your users.

And while we also see they abuse problem, as pointed out they aren't the 
worst..


Speaking of, has anyone heard of a player using Chinese IP space called 
EasyEye, using 118.192.64.0/21 IP Space?


So far, only seen them in spam reports, but they might be a new player..



On 2018-11-06 3:53 a.m., Benoit Panizzon wrote:

Hi List

We again face problems with services by MailChimp.

Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending
permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.

They repeatedly get blacklisted on our platform, because of recipient
complaints.

Then repeatedly customers having subscribed to newsletters from serious
companies complain to us, because mailchimp is blocked by our anti-spam
services.

The customer reporting spam are not those who subscribed to
newsletters, forget about it and them report opt-in emails as spam.

No, the problem is that MailChimp operates under 'US' marketing laws
where the sender is only obliged to provide an 'opt-out' link in spam he
sends and does not have to require the recipient to have a validated
opt-in to get advertisement emails.

So often, the spamers use harvested email addresses (even spamtraps we
have hidden of websites) or lists they bought online.

The other problem is about GDPR, where laws in most European countries
require the sender of advertisement to disclose the source of data of a
recipient to this recipient.

Spamers sending email over mailchimp are clever. The links in the email
point to some anonymous redirection services to mailchimp themselves or
to domains registered via anonymizing proxies. Payment work over
paypal and if you have been trying to get at the identity of a fraudster
who took money via paypal, you know this is not possible. So the
recipient of spam needs to contact the 'sender' aka MailChimp and
requires MailChimp to disclose the identity of the sender, which
MailChimp then again rejects pointing to US privacy laws which require
them not to disclose the identity of their customers. Safe Heaven for
Spamer!

MailChimp does close accounts for which they get a certain number of
complaints, but they fail to recognize and block the same spamer who
repeatedly opens news accounts.

So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about
MailChimp?

* Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
* Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as
   collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-





--
"Catch the Magic of Linux..."

Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca
"LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices Ltd.

604-682-0300 Beautiful British Columbia, Canada

This email and any electronic data contained are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely
those of the author and are not intended to represent those of the company.

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Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Mark E. Jeftovic]

On 2018-11-06 11:51 AM, Alexander Burch wrote:
> What would be an appropriate translation of "bounced" in German? The
> current options I have heard are:
Nein! Keine e-mail für du!

- mark

-- 
Mark E. Jeftovic 
Co-founder & CEO, easyDNS Technologies Inc.
/Author of Managing Mission Critical Domains & DNS: The Book
/
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Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Mathias Ullrich]

A bounce could be called “Rückläufer” but a “bounce” works totally fine, never 
saw a “Rückläufer Rate” in a reporting of a German sender 

Cheers from Hamburg, Germany,
Mathias

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Benjamin BILLON
Sent: 06 November 2018 18:03
To: Alexander Burch ; mailop 
Subject: Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

https://certified-senders.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/CSA-Aufnahmekriterien.pdf

" wenn drei Hard Bounces erfolgten"
" Insgesamt darf die Hard-Bounce-Rate"

Seems you can say "Bounce"

--
Benjamin

From: mailop mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> On 
Behalf Of Alexander Burch
Sent: mardi 6 novembre 2018 17:51
To: mailop mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>
Subject: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

What would be an appropriate translation of "bounced" in German? The current 
options I have heard are:

“Kahm zurück”
“Kam zurück”
“Rückläufer”

Thanks,
Alex
--

[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/cy3nisxfd_ac_logo-circle.png]

Alexander Burch
ActiveCampaign / Deliverability Engineer
abu...@activecampaign.com
1 North Dearborn St Suite 500, Chicago IL, 60602
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/ys2h3to2m_email-facebook.png]
 [https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/tc3x0kcsn_email-twitter.png] 
  
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/y1t0ztxcr_email-linkedin.png] 
  
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/j14l6ck9n_email-google.png] 



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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Al Iverson]

My question is, "What Mailchimp spam problem?" Where's data? All I see
is useless bombastic complaining that belongs on NANAE or SPAM-L, not
here.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 10:30 AM David Carriger
 wrote:
>
> MailChimp is more successful than most of their competitors - they have more 
> customers and send more emails. The volume of spam you receive from MailChimp 
> may be higher than, say, Constant Contact, but MailChimp also sends more 
> email than Constant Contact. I'd be surprised if the percentage of spam that 
> MailChimp sends is much, if any, higher than the percentage of spam that any 
> other ESP sends.
>
>
> MailChimp built Omnivore to help prevent abuse on their platform. MailChimp 
> uses E-HAWK and other tools to prevent fraudulent signups on their own 
> service by spammers. MailChimp has implemented experimental headers such as 
> "Form-Sub" to try to prevent spam. MailChimp is a member of M3AAWG.
>
>
> This is not a company that says they're against spam and abuse, while winking 
> at spammers and pocketing their money. MailChimp doesn't want to send spam 
> any more than you want to receive spam.
>
>
> If you're getting a lot of spam from MailChimp - great, what can be done 
> about it? Do you have a feedback loop so that MailChimp is aware? Have you 
> started up a dialogue with their abuse team? If you've seen patterns in the 
> abuse, have you let them know so they can build detection for that into 
> Omnivore?
>
>
> If you block MailChimp, you're going to get a lot of false positives and 
> complaints because they aren't a spam outfit. They want to do the right 
> thing. If you feel they're falling short, it's far more productive to 
> brainstorm how you could mutually help each fix the problem.
>
>
> 
> From: mailop  on behalf of Steve Atkins 
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:04 AM
> To: mailop
> Subject: Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam 
> problem?
>
>
>
> > On Nov 6, 2018, at 2:42 PM, Renaud Allard via mailop  
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/6/18 3:02 PM, Charles McKean wrote:
> >> If you had any honest question here, you got it wrong by laying on the
> >> insult and making leading statements. Since you are acting like a
> >> troll, I think we should treat you like a troll and tell you to go
> >> away.
> >> I get so many spams, but I have not gotten a spam from a Mailchimp
> >> customer for as long as I can remember. There are many other email
> >> services providers that are much worse. Mailchimp is not the problem
> >> for most of us, so perhaps the question to ask is, are you the
> >> outlier? And if so, why? Are your filters broken?
> >
> > I am not sure who is trolling here. I get very few spam that pass my 
> > filters, however most of the spam that pass the filters are from mailchimp.
> > That said, mailchimp is generally fast and efficient at stopping the spam 
> > spree when you complain to them. Though, you will still receive others from 
> > other customers at mailchimp.
>
> I see significantly more spam from, and far less action in response to 
> complaints, from OVH, Digital Ocean, Microsoft (Azure, in particular) and to 
> a slightly lesser extent Google. MailChimp - and other traditional (non-API) 
> ESPs - are there, but mostly lost in the noise.
>
> I have found that complaining about spam from ESPs in preference to the much 
> higher volumes of spam from other sources, does correlate with a certain sort 
> of recipient.
>
> Cheers,
>   Steve
>

-- 
al iverson // 312-725-0130 // miami
http://www.aliverson.com
http://www.spamresource.com

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Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Andrew Wingle]

I’d hedge on “fehlermeldungen” or SMTP-Fehler before those but as I understand 
most will understand what a “bounce” represents in regards to email.


  *   Andrew

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Alexander Burch
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 11:51 AM
To: mailop 
Subject: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

What would be an appropriate translation of "bounced" in German? The current 
options I have heard are:

“Kahm zurück”
“Kam zurück”
“Rückläufer”

Thanks,
Alex

--

[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/cy3nisxfd_ac_logo-circle.png]

Alexander Burch
ActiveCampaign / Deliverability Engineer
abu...@activecampaign.com
1 North Dearborn St Suite 500, Chicago IL, 60602
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/ys2h3to2m_email-facebook.png]
 [https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/tc3x0kcsn_email-twitter.png] 
  
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/y1t0ztxcr_email-linkedin.png] 
  
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Re: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Benjamin BILLON]

https://certified-senders.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/CSA-Aufnahmekriterien.pdf

" wenn drei Hard Bounces erfolgten"
" Insgesamt darf die Hard-Bounce-Rate"

Seems you can say "Bounce"

--
Benjamin

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Alexander Burch
Sent: mardi 6 novembre 2018 17:51
To: mailop 
Subject: [mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

What would be an appropriate translation of "bounced" in German? The current 
options I have heard are:

“Kahm zurück”
“Kam zurück”
“Rückläufer”

Thanks,
Alex

--

[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/cy3nisxfd_ac_logo-circle.png]

Alexander Burch
ActiveCampaign / Deliverability Engineer
abu...@activecampaign.com
1 North Dearborn St Suite 500, Chicago IL, 60602
[https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/ys2h3to2m_email-facebook.png]
 [https://d226aj4ao1t61q.cloudfront.net/tc3x0kcsn_email-twitter.png] 
  
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[mailop] How to say "bounced" in German

[Alexander Burch]

What would be an appropriate translation of "bounced" in German? The
current options I have heard are:

“Kahm zurück”
“Kam zurück”
“Rückläufer”

Thanks,
Alex


--

Alexander Burch
ActiveCampaign / Deliverability Engineer
abu...@activecampaign.com
1 North Dearborn St Suite 500, Chicago IL, 60602






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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[David Carriger]

MailChimp is more successful than most of their competitors - they have more 
customers and send more emails. The volume of spam you receive from MailChimp 
may be higher than, say, Constant Contact, but MailChimp also sends more email 
than Constant Contact. I'd be surprised if the percentage of spam that 
MailChimp sends is much, if any, higher than the percentage of spam that any 
other ESP sends.


MailChimp built Omnivore to help prevent abuse on their platform. MailChimp 
uses E-HAWK and other tools to prevent fraudulent signups on their own service 
by spammers. MailChimp has implemented experimental headers such as "Form-Sub" 
to try to prevent spam. MailChimp is a member of M3AAWG.


This is not a company that says they're against spam and abuse, while winking 
at spammers and pocketing their money. MailChimp doesn't want to send spam any 
more than you want to receive spam.


If you're getting a lot of spam from MailChimp - great, what can be done about 
it? Do you have a feedback loop so that MailChimp is aware? Have you started up 
a dialogue with their abuse team? If you've seen patterns in the abuse, have 
you let them know so they can build detection for that into Omnivore?


If you block MailChimp, you're going to get a lot of false positives and 
complaints because they aren't a spam outfit. They want to do the right thing. 
If you feel they're falling short, it's far more productive to brainstorm how 
you could mutually help each fix the problem.


From: mailop  on behalf of Steve Atkins 

Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:04 AM
To: mailop
Subject: Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam 
problem?



> On Nov 6, 2018, at 2:42 PM, Renaud Allard via mailop  
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/6/18 3:02 PM, Charles McKean wrote:
>> If you had any honest question here, you got it wrong by laying on the
>> insult and making leading statements. Since you are acting like a
>> troll, I think we should treat you like a troll and tell you to go
>> away.
>> I get so many spams, but I have not gotten a spam from a Mailchimp
>> customer for as long as I can remember. There are many other email
>> services providers that are much worse. Mailchimp is not the problem
>> for most of us, so perhaps the question to ask is, are you the
>> outlier? And if so, why? Are your filters broken?
>
> I am not sure who is trolling here. I get very few spam that pass my filters, 
> however most of the spam that pass the filters are from mailchimp.
> That said, mailchimp is generally fast and efficient at stopping the spam 
> spree when you complain to them. Though, you will still receive others from 
> other customers at mailchimp.

I see significantly more spam from, and far less action in response to 
complaints, from OVH, Digital Ocean, Microsoft (Azure, in particular) and to a 
slightly lesser extent Google. MailChimp - and other traditional (non-API) ESPs 
- are there, but mostly lost in the noise.

I have found that complaining about spam from ESPs in preference to the much 
higher volumes of spam from other sources, does correlate with a certain sort 
of recipient.

Cheers,
  Steve



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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Steve Atkins]

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 2:42 PM, Renaud Allard via mailop  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/6/18 3:02 PM, Charles McKean wrote:
>> If you had any honest question here, you got it wrong by laying on the
>> insult and making leading statements. Since you are acting like a
>> troll, I think we should treat you like a troll and tell you to go
>> away.
>> I get so many spams, but I have not gotten a spam from a Mailchimp
>> customer for as long as I can remember. There are many other email
>> services providers that are much worse. Mailchimp is not the problem
>> for most of us, so perhaps the question to ask is, are you the
>> outlier? And if so, why? Are your filters broken?
> 
> I am not sure who is trolling here. I get very few spam that pass my filters, 
> however most of the spam that pass the filters are from mailchimp.
> That said, mailchimp is generally fast and efficient at stopping the spam 
> spree when you complain to them. Though, you will still receive others from 
> other customers at mailchimp.

I see significantly more spam from, and far less action in response to 
complaints, from OVH, Digital Ocean, Microsoft (Azure, in particular) and to a 
slightly lesser extent Google. MailChimp - and other traditional (non-API) ESPs 
- are there, but mostly lost in the noise.

I have found that complaining about spam from ESPs in preference to the much 
higher volumes of spam from other sources, does correlate with a certain sort 
of recipient.

Cheers,
  Steve



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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Renaud Allard via mailop]

On 11/6/18 3:02 PM, Charles McKean wrote:

If you had any honest question here, you got it wrong by laying on the
insult and making leading statements. Since you are acting like a
troll, I think we should treat you like a troll and tell you to go
away.

I get so many spams, but I have not gotten a spam from a Mailchimp
customer for as long as I can remember. There are many other email
services providers that are much worse. Mailchimp is not the problem
for most of us, so perhaps the question to ask is, are you the
outlier? And if so, why? Are your filters broken?


I am not sure who is trolling here. I get very few spam that pass my 
filters, however most of the spam that pass the filters are from mailchimp.
That said, mailchimp is generally fast and efficient at stopping the 
spam spree when you complain to them. Though, you will still receive 
others from other customers at mailchimp.


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Re: [mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Charles McKean]

If you had any honest question here, you got it wrong by laying on the
insult and making leading statements. Since you are acting like a
troll, I think we should treat you like a troll and tell you to go
away.

I get so many spams, but I have not gotten a spam from a Mailchimp
customer for as long as I can remember. There are many other email
services providers that are much worse. Mailchimp is not the problem
for most of us, so perhaps the question to ask is, are you the
outlier? And if so, why? Are your filters broken?
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 7:07 AM Benoit Panizzon  wrote:
>
> Hi List
>
> We again face problems with services by MailChimp.
>
> Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending
> permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.
>
> They repeatedly get blacklisted on our platform, because of recipient
> complaints.
>
> Then repeatedly customers having subscribed to newsletters from serious
> companies complain to us, because mailchimp is blocked by our anti-spam
> services.
>
> The customer reporting spam are not those who subscribed to
> newsletters, forget about it and them report opt-in emails as spam.
>
> No, the problem is that MailChimp operates under 'US' marketing laws
> where the sender is only obliged to provide an 'opt-out' link in spam he
> sends and does not have to require the recipient to have a validated
> opt-in to get advertisement emails.
>
> So often, the spamers use harvested email addresses (even spamtraps we
> have hidden of websites) or lists they bought online.
>
> The other problem is about GDPR, where laws in most European countries
> require the sender of advertisement to disclose the source of data of a
> recipient to this recipient.
>
> Spamers sending email over mailchimp are clever. The links in the email
> point to some anonymous redirection services to mailchimp themselves or
> to domains registered via anonymizing proxies. Payment work over
> paypal and if you have been trying to get at the identity of a fraudster
> who took money via paypal, you know this is not possible. So the
> recipient of spam needs to contact the 'sender' aka MailChimp and
> requires MailChimp to disclose the identity of the sender, which
> MailChimp then again rejects pointing to US privacy laws which require
> them not to disclose the identity of their customers. Safe Heaven for
> Spamer!
>
> MailChimp does close accounts for which they get a certain number of
> complaints, but they fail to recognize and block the same spamer who
> repeatedly opens news accounts.
>
> So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about
> MailChimp?
>
> * Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
> * Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as
>   collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüssen
>
> -Benoît Panizzon-
> --
> I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
> __
>
> Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
> CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
> Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
> __
>
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[mailop] What do other ISP / ESP do about the MailChimp spam problem?

[Benoit Panizzon]

Hi List

We again face problems with services by MailChimp.

Their platform is equally fashioned by serious companies sending
permission based newsletters and by very persistent repetitive spamer.

They repeatedly get blacklisted on our platform, because of recipient
complaints.

Then repeatedly customers having subscribed to newsletters from serious
companies complain to us, because mailchimp is blocked by our anti-spam
services.

The customer reporting spam are not those who subscribed to
newsletters, forget about it and them report opt-in emails as spam.

No, the problem is that MailChimp operates under 'US' marketing laws
where the sender is only obliged to provide an 'opt-out' link in spam he
sends and does not have to require the recipient to have a validated
opt-in to get advertisement emails.

So often, the spamers use harvested email addresses (even spamtraps we
have hidden of websites) or lists they bought online.

The other problem is about GDPR, where laws in most European countries
require the sender of advertisement to disclose the source of data of a
recipient to this recipient.

Spamers sending email over mailchimp are clever. The links in the email
point to some anonymous redirection services to mailchimp themselves or
to domains registered via anonymizing proxies. Payment work over
paypal and if you have been trying to get at the identity of a fraudster
who took money via paypal, you know this is not possible. So the
recipient of spam needs to contact the 'sender' aka MailChimp and
requires MailChimp to disclose the identity of the sender, which
MailChimp then again rejects pointing to US privacy laws which require
them not to disclose the identity of their customers. Safe Heaven for
Spamer!

MailChimp does close accounts for which they get a certain number of
complaints, but they fail to recognize and block the same spamer who
repeatedly opens news accounts.

So what do you think should ISP and Email Plattform operators do about
MailChimp?

* Tell the customers complaining about spam they have to live with it?
* Block MailChimp and tell serious companies who get blocked as
  collateral damage, to look for another, not so spamer firendly ESP?

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

-Benoît Panizzon-
-- 
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
__

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