[mailop] FireEye NewExist?

[Chris Boyd]

Had an odd transient bounce from an email server that’s used for a small 
consulting company. The email server is low volume, and hosted on AWS. Bounce 
message is:

host primary.us.email.fireeyecloud.com[165.254.91.98]
  said: 550 5.5.4 ETP212 Your DNS .com is listed by Newexist. -

The other odd thing is that primary.us.email.fireeyecloud.com is not listed as 
an MX for the receiving domain.

Google doesn’t return anything that seems to do with email when searching for 
fireeye newexist.

Anyone know what happened here?

—Chris
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Re: [mailop] Gmail Vacation responder replying to spam?

[Dave Warren]

Thanks, sent off-list!

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, at 17:09, Brandon Long via mailop wrote:
> If you send me the header of a message we responded to, I can file a bug.
> 
> Brandon
> 
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 3:53 PM Dave Warren  wrote:
>> I've had a couple users complaining about receiving a bunch of unexpected 
>> bounce messages recently, since we filter bounce messages pretty carefully I 
>> dug into it and the messages are being pulled from Gmail accounts via our 
>> POP retrieval system which bypasses bounce filtering. We don't get the 
>> original spam by POP3, but we get the autoresponder and matching bounce.
>> 
>>  I checked one of my own accounts and I'm seeing the same, I have messages 
>> in Spam that generated a vacation responder. Looking in my Sent folder 
>> (thank you Google for including these in the Sent folder) I see about a 
>> dozen responses to spam today, a few more yesterday (Mar 28), and then 
>> nothing before that. The previous autoresponder was Mar 15, to a legitimate 
>> message, while my spam folder has an average of 30 messages daily). 
>> 
>>  I suppose I could probably filter these out for users, but it seems odd 
>> that Google has started sending vacation responders to spam. I don't have 
>> any personal contacts at Google anymore, any chance someone has a contact at 
>> Google that you could forward this to?
>> 
>> 
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Re: [mailop] Gmail Vacation responder replying to spam?

[Brandon Long via mailop]

If you send me the header of a message we responded to, I can file a bug.

Brandon

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 3:53 PM Dave Warren  wrote:

> I've had a couple users complaining about receiving a bunch of unexpected
> bounce messages recently, since we filter bounce messages pretty carefully
> I dug into it and the messages are being pulled from Gmail accounts via our
> POP retrieval system which bypasses bounce filtering. We don't get the
> original spam by POP3, but we get the autoresponder and matching bounce.
>
> I checked one of my own accounts and I'm seeing the same, I have messages
> in Spam that generated a vacation responder. Looking in my Sent folder
> (thank you Google for including these in the Sent folder) I see about a
> dozen responses to spam today, a few more yesterday (Mar 28), and then
> nothing before that. The previous autoresponder was Mar 15, to a legitimate
> message, while my spam folder has an average of 30 messages daily).
>
> I suppose I could probably filter these out for users, but it seems odd
> that Google has started sending vacation responders to spam. I don't have
> any personal contacts at Google anymore, any chance someone has a contact
> at Google that you could forward this to?
>
>
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[mailop] Gmail Vacation responder replying to spam?

[Dave Warren]

I've had a couple users complaining about receiving a bunch of unexpected 
bounce messages recently, since we filter bounce messages pretty carefully I 
dug into it and the messages are being pulled from Gmail accounts via our POP 
retrieval system which bypasses bounce filtering. We don't get the original 
spam by POP3, but we get the autoresponder and matching bounce.

I checked one of my own accounts and I'm seeing the same, I have messages in 
Spam that generated a vacation responder. Looking in my Sent folder (thank you 
Google for including these in the Sent folder) I see about a dozen responses to 
spam today, a few more yesterday (Mar 28), and then nothing before that. The 
previous autoresponder was Mar 15, to a legitimate message, while my spam 
folder has an average of 30 messages daily). 

I suppose I could probably filter these out for users, but it seems odd that 
Google has started sending vacation responders to spam. I don't have any 
personal contacts at Google anymore, any chance someone has a contact at Google 
that you could forward this to?


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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Brandon Long via mailop]

Fastmail is an MSP not an ESP, they don't have stats on open rates.

Not that they can't have abusers using their services, or business folks
sending too much unsolicited mail from their accounts, but it's not a bulk
mailer.

Brandon

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 10:58 AM Benjamin BILLON  wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
>
>
> You appear to be extrapolating; the only case I know of blackholed emails
> are by Outlook.com, when the sending reputation is really bad. Other ISPs
> usually reject the message explicitely. Hence my question about the open
> rate: maybe it's not globally low on Outlook.com, meaning this issue
> doesn't happen for all or many recipients, but only on this testing account
> where the user can't find the email despite the 250 reply. It's very basic
> support procedure, when someone is asking for help, to make sure we all
> have the same level of information.
>
>
>
> What might be happening is that Microsoft considers this IP address has a
> very bad reputation, resulting in blackholed emails, even if there's no
> visible data (or at all) to back that up. We had IPs flagged as "blocked"
> despite not sending any traffic, so the behavior sounds similar.
>
>
>
> --
> *Benjamin*
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob McEwen 
> *Sent:* vendredi 29 mars 2019 17:02
> *To:* Benjamin BILLON ; Ricardo Signes <
> r...@fastmailteam.com>; mailop@mailop.org
> *Subject:* Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing
>
>
>
> On 3/29/2019 11:42 AM, Benjamin BILLON wrote:
>
> Yeah, an extremely bad reputation can do that at Outlook.com. Are the open
> rates really low for emails sent from this or those IPs?
>
>
> Benjamin,
>
> the outlook/hotmail side of Microsoft has been out-of-control this past
> year, and if everyone else applied to them the same draconian standards
> that they sometimes apply to so many others - ALL of outlook/hotmail's
> sending-IPs  would start getting blocked EVERYWHERE! The truth is -
> everyone leaks a little spam on occasions due to things like compromised
> accounts. But the problem here is that outlook/hotmail's responses to
> things like that have been very bizarre/draconian, where they have little
> consideration for collateral damage, and where they sometimes apply
> permanent blocks to short-term security issues that were ALREADY fixed.
> Again, imagine if the SAME standards were applied to outlook/hotmail's
> outbound email? Over the years, they have sent a MASSIVE amount of spam
> from their outbound IPs.
>
> So please don't assume that this is FastMail's issue!
>
> --
>
> Rob McEwen, invaluement
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Benjamin BILLON]

Hi Rob,

You appear to be extrapolating; the only case I know of blackholed emails are 
by Outlook.com, when the sending reputation is really bad. Other ISPs usually 
reject the message explicitely. Hence my question about the open rate: maybe 
it's not globally low on Outlook.com, meaning this issue doesn't happen for all 
or many recipients, but only on this testing account where the user can't find 
the email despite the 250 reply. It's very basic support procedure, when 
someone is asking for help, to make sure we all have the same level of 
information.

What might be happening is that Microsoft considers this IP address has a very 
bad reputation, resulting in blackholed emails, even if there's no visible data 
(or at all) to back that up. We had IPs flagged as "blocked" despite not 
sending any traffic, so the behavior sounds similar.

--
Benjamin

From: Rob McEwen 
Sent: vendredi 29 mars 2019 17:02
To: Benjamin BILLON ; Ricardo Signes 
; mailop@mailop.org
Subject: Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

On 3/29/2019 11:42 AM, Benjamin BILLON wrote:
Yeah, an extremely bad reputation can do that at Outlook.com. Are the open 
rates really low for emails sent from this or those IPs?

Benjamin,

the outlook/hotmail side of Microsoft has been out-of-control this past year, 
and if everyone else applied to them the same draconian standards that they 
sometimes apply to so many others - ALL of outlook/hotmail's sending-IPs  would 
start getting blocked EVERYWHERE! The truth is - everyone leaks a little spam 
on occasions due to things like compromised accounts. But the problem here is 
that outlook/hotmail's responses to things like that have been very 
bizarre/draconian, where they have little consideration for collateral damage, 
and where they sometimes apply permanent blocks to short-term security issues 
that were ALREADY fixed. Again, imagine if the SAME standards were applied to 
outlook/hotmail's outbound email? Over the years, they have sent a MASSIVE 
amount of spam from their outbound IPs.

So please don't assume that this is FastMail's issue!

--

Rob McEwen, invaluement




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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Ricardo Signes]

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, at 12:28, Michael Wise wrote:
> Can you please share the IP address the email was sent from?


Of course, that was an obvious oversight on my part. This email came from 
66.111.4.25.

> Under some circumstances, especially for traffic being sent to a, “mail sink” 
> account that never sends mail, etc, there can be strange behavior.


While *this* account rarely or never sends mail, the users who have reported 
this problem are not such accounts.

Thanks for your time on this. Sorry if I stirred a pot…

--
Ricardo Signes (rjbs)
CTO, FastMail
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Re: [mailop] Gmail's email language detection

[Mathieu Bourdin]

Hi Brandon,

Thanks for your answer, I’m going to send you examples right away offlist,

Mathieu.

De : Brandon Long 
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 17:34
À : Mathieu Bourdin 
Cc : mailop 
Objet : Re: [mailop] Gmail's email language detection

The language detector runs on the body of the message and is usually pretty 
accurate... but it's not perfect.

If you can send me some example messages, or send me the "download source" from 
Gmail of example messages, I can file a bug.

Note to use the download from the source view page, not copy & paste, the 
source view isn't a raw view anymore


Brandon
On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 9:15 AM Mathieu Bourdin 
mailto:mbour...@np6.com>> wrote:
Hi fellow Mailopers,

I had a question regarding Gmail. More precisely, I was wondering if anyone 
from the list, or from Gmail if they see this post and have some time to 
answer, could tell me what triggers the display of the “translate this email 
from  to  “ line on top of an email?
In our case, we see that a good proportion of our emails (99% of our client’s 
sendings are in French) get this message after being identified as having been 
written in English.
This Seems to be IP range agnostic (We have 3 different IP providers, 2 French 
ones, and a third from the US), but also TLD agnostic (we see messages in .fr 
identified as “English speaking”), Encoding agnostic (same encoding for all 
mails on the platform). I heard about adding a lang=fr instruction in the code 
but this doesn’t seem to change a lot of things…
After trying for some time to find information/solution about this behavior, I 
do yield end ask for mailop’s mercy: can you tell me what we are missing? Is 
there a clear way to indicate the right language to Gmail? Do we have to pay 
attention to something specific?

Thank for anybody’s help, and have a great week end everyone

Regards,
Mathieu Bourdin.

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Re: [mailop] Gmail's email language detection

[Brandon Long via mailop]

The language detector runs on the body of the message and is usually pretty
accurate... but it's not perfect.

If you can send me some example messages, or send me the "download source"
from Gmail of example messages, I can file a bug.

Note to use the download from the source view page, not copy & paste, the
source view isn't a raw view anymore


Brandon

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 9:15 AM Mathieu Bourdin  wrote:

> Hi fellow Mailopers,
>
>
>
> I had a question regarding Gmail. More precisely, I was wondering if
> anyone from the list, or from Gmail if they see this post and have some
> time to answer, could tell me what triggers the display of the “translate
> this email from  to  “ line on top of an email?
>
> In our case, we see that a good proportion of our emails (99% of our
> client’s sendings are in French) get this message after being identified as
> having been written in English.
>
> This Seems to be IP range agnostic (We have 3 different IP providers, 2
> French ones, and a third from the US), but also TLD agnostic (we see
> messages in .fr identified as “English speaking”), Encoding agnostic (same
> encoding for all mails on the platform). I heard about adding a lang=fr
> instruction in the code but this doesn’t seem to change a lot of things…
>
> After trying for some time to find information/solution about this
> behavior, I do yield end ask for mailop’s mercy: can you tell me what we
> are missing? Is there a clear way to indicate the right language to Gmail?
> Do we have to pay attention to something specific?
>
>
>
> Thank for anybody’s help, and have a great week end everyone
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Mathieu Bourdin.
>
>
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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Michael Wise via mailop]

Can you please share the IP address the email was sent from?
On the one hand, it's possible for a feature we call, "Time Travel" to work in 
a similar fashion, after detecting a campaign, but that would move the email to 
Junk and not delete it entirely.
Since this is a recent incident, it's possible the automated system hasn't 
gotten back to you with a ticket (SRX#) yet, but that should happen relatively 
quickly.

Under some circumstances, especially for traffic being sent to a, "mail sink" 
account that never sends mail, etc, there can be strange behavior.

But we really need the sending IP address to get a better handle on what's 
going on.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool ?

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Ricardo Signes
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 7:02 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

Hiya,

Lately, we're seeing a lot of mail from us (FastMail) being accepted by 
Outlook[.com], but then never reaching its destination inbox.  It's not in a 
junk folder or somewhere else.  It seems like Outlook is accepting the mail and 
then dropping it on the floor somewhere.  Obviously, this isn't great for out 
users.

Here's an example SMTP interaction between us and Outlook:

2019-03-29T09:44:11-04:00 gateway2 postfix-out/smtp[3294666]: A421222096: 
to=mailto:operatester...@outlook.com>>, 
relay=outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104.47.1.33]:25, delay=2.3, 
delays=0.05/0/0.69/1.5, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 
mailto:c6883afe-2d47-40b2-be0d-73b897c7f...@beta.fastmail.com>>
 [InternalId=18708877624108, 
Hostname=VE1EUR01HT199.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10961 bytes in 
0.465, 23.013 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5)

We've filed a ticket, but I don't think we've had any response, and it's a 
scary problem, since we can't detect anything to tell users.  Anybody know what 
can cause this behavior?

--
Ricardo Signes (rjbs)
Postmaster, FastMail

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[mailop] Gmail's email language detection

[Mathieu Bourdin]

Hi fellow Mailopers,

I had a question regarding Gmail. More precisely, I was wondering if anyone 
from the list, or from Gmail if they see this post and have some time to 
answer, could tell me what triggers the display of the "translate this email 
from  to  " line on top of an email?
In our case, we see that a good proportion of our emails (99% of our client's 
sendings are in French) get this message after being identified as having been 
written in English.
This Seems to be IP range agnostic (We have 3 different IP providers, 2 French 
ones, and a third from the US), but also TLD agnostic (we see messages in .fr 
identified as "English speaking"), Encoding agnostic (same encoding for all 
mails on the platform). I heard about adding a lang=fr instruction in the code 
but this doesn't seem to change a lot of things...
After trying for some time to find information/solution about this behavior, I 
do yield end ask for mailop's mercy: can you tell me what we are missing? Is 
there a clear way to indicate the right language to Gmail? Do we have to pay 
attention to something specific?

Thank for anybody's help, and have a great week end everyone

Regards,
Mathieu Bourdin.

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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Rob McEwen]

On 3/29/2019 11:42 AM, Benjamin BILLON wrote:


Yeah, an extremely bad reputation can do that at Outlook.com.Are the 
open rates really low for emails sent from this or those IPs?




Benjamin,

the outlook/hotmail side of Microsoft has been out-of-control this past 
year, and if everyone else applied to them the same draconian standards 
that they sometimes apply to so many others - ALL of outlook/hotmail's 
sending-IPs  would start getting blocked EVERYWHERE! The truth is - 
everyone leaks a little spam on occasions due to things like compromised 
accounts. But the problem here is that outlook/hotmail's responses to 
things like that have been very bizarre/draconian, where they have 
little consideration for collateral damage, and where they sometimes 
apply permanent blocks to short-term security issues that were ALREADY 
fixed. Again, imagine if the SAME standards were applied to 
outlook/hotmail's outbound email? Over the years, they have sent a 
MASSIVE amount of spam from their outbound IPs.


So please don't assume that this is FastMail's issue!

--
Rob McEwen, invaluement
 

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Re: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Benjamin BILLON]

Yeah, an extremely bad reputation can do that at Outlook.com.

Are the open rates really low for emails sent from this or those IPs?

--
Benjamin

From: mailop  On Behalf Of Ricardo Signes
Sent: vendredi 29 mars 2019 15:02
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

Hiya,

Lately, we're seeing a lot of mail from us (FastMail) being accepted by 
Outlook[.com], but then never reaching its destination inbox.  It's not in a 
junk folder or somewhere else.  It seems like Outlook is accepting the mail and 
then dropping it on the floor somewhere.  Obviously, this isn't great for out 
users.

Here's an example SMTP interaction between us and Outlook:

2019-03-29T09:44:11-04:00 gateway2 postfix-out/smtp[3294666]: A421222096: 
to=mailto:operatester...@outlook.com>>, 
relay=outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104.47.1.33]:25, delay=2.3, 
delays=0.05/0/0.69/1.5, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 
mailto:c6883afe-2d47-40b2-be0d-73b897c7f...@beta.fastmail.com>>
 [InternalId=18708877624108, 
Hostname=VE1EUR01HT199.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10961 bytes in 
0.465, 23.013 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5)

We've filed a ticket, but I don't think we've had any response, and it's a 
scary problem, since we can't detect anything to tell users.  Anybody know what 
can cause this behavior?

--
Ricardo Signes (rjbs)
Postmaster, FastMail

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[mailop] mail to Outlook accepted, then vanishing

[Ricardo Signes]

Hiya,

Lately, we're seeing a lot of mail from us (FastMail) being accepted by 
Outlook[.com], but then never reaching its destination inbox. It's not in a 
junk folder or somewhere else. It seems like Outlook is accepting the mail and 
then dropping it on the floor somewhere. Obviously, this isn't great for out 
users.

Here's an example SMTP interaction between us and Outlook:

> 2019-03-29T09:44:11-04:00 gateway2 postfix-out/smtp[3294666]: A421222096: 
> to=, 
> relay=outlook-com.olc.protection.outlook.com[104.47.1.33]:25, delay=2.3, 
> delays=0.05/0/0.69/1.5, dsn=2.6.0, status=sent (250 2.6.0 
>  
> [InternalId=18708877624108, 
> Hostname=VE1EUR01HT199.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10961 bytes in 
> 0.465, 23.013 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5)

We've filed a ticket, but I don't think we've had any response, and it's a 
scary problem, since we can't detect anything to tell users. Anybody know what 
can cause this behavior?

--
Ricardo Signes (rjbs)
Postmaster, FastMail
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Re: [mailop] AT MMS gateway email delays

[Chad M Stewart]

I use https://pushover.net a small one time cost for the app for my 
phone. Then just a simple script for sending me an alert, for example 
when a client connects via VPN:


curl -s -F "token=$appid" \
-F "user=$userid" \
-F "title=** OpenVPN ALERT **" \
-F "message=$common_name connected from $trusted_ip" 
https://api.pushover.net/1/messages.json


-Chad

On 2019-03-28 12:52 PM, Scott Mutter wrote:

I see this pop up quite frequently.  It seems that the AT MMS
gateway email address is experiencing a lengthy delay in actually
sending out the MMS message, sometimes 30 minutes to an hour.  This
happens from time to time and usually within a week or two it seems to
fix itself.

This is in reference to the email gateway address
<10digitphonenumber>@mms.att.net email address.  Where you send an
email to that email address and it arrives as MMS on your phone.

Perhaps I'm the only one that really uses this.

Anybody from AT on this list seeing this issue and have any 
resolution?


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Re: [mailop] OutLook Feebback Systems, thoughts and suggestions

[Steve Atkins]

> On Mar 28, 2019, at 9:15 PM, Michael Peddemors  wrote:
> 
> About 6 months ago, we signed up for the Feedback loops for our own
> email platform, and in that time probably had one legitimate report, and
> several false positives, probably from user(s) clicking on the wrong
> button on an email they really wanted
> 
> However, a suggestion.
> 
> If the date of the original message is more than 10 days in the past,
> and a user clicks on the report as spam, don't bother sending a feedback
> report..
> 
> Going 10 days back in logs is not always easily possible, and by that
> time, if it really was a problem, it was probably taken care of.

I'd disagree. As a recipient of a FBL you can decide that you want
to ignore reports more than a few days in the past, and trivially
filter those out based on your specific needs.

But others will want the data in the FBL even if it's someone
clicking on a mail they received six months ago, and they'll
have proper infrastructure for that that doesn't forget things after
a week.

The sender of the FBL is the wrong place to make the decision
about relevance of older reports.

Cheers,
  Steve



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