Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-13 Thread Bron Gondwana via mailop
On Mon, Oct 14, 2019, at 11:33, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
> It is an absurd assumption that I should be punished for misbehaviour of my
> neighbours. I'm sure you wouldn't accept such rule in any other area of the
> life; why would you accept it when it comes to e-mail?

Objection your honour, assumes facts not in evidence.

Is it fair? Of course not. Prejudice is inherently unfair. It's also necessary 
to apply heuristics or you'd never get anywhere in the world.

If you live in Broadmeadows, for sure I judge you (substitute suburb with high 
crime rate and reputation for antisocial behaviour in your own part of the 
world). When you're doing the internet equivalent of showing up in a singlet 
with a pack of cigarettes tucked into your shoulder and a couple of gang 
tattoos, you may get pre-judged.

Bron.

-- 
 Bron Gondwana
 br...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-13 Thread John Levine via mailop
In article <20191014003325.gb21...@rafa.eu.org> you write:
>Dnia 10.10.2019 o godz. 09:55:58 Brielle via mailop pisze:
>> 
>> Let me ask you something very straight forward.
>> 
>> How much do you pay Google so that you can e-mail their users?
>
>Don't you see the absurdity of that question?

Nope.

>You (and several other people on this list) are only trying to convince me
>that it is *my* fault that someone isn't accepting my emails. Because I
>"chose the wrong hosting provider" and my (network) neighbours are
>misbehaving.

It's not necessarily your fault, but it's definitely up to you to decide
whether you want to fix it.  I hope it is apparent by now that lecturing
strangers on how you think they should run their networks is not a good
use of anyone's time.


R's,
John

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Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-13 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 10.10.2019 o godz. 09:55:58 Brielle via mailop pisze:
> 
> Let me ask you something very straight forward.
> 
> How much do you pay Google so that you can e-mail their users?

Don't you see the absurdity of that question? And everything else you wrote
in your message?
I already wrote about the "I, me, mine" attitude that is destroying the
Internet. You are probably the best example of it in that discussion.

You (and several other people on this list) are only trying to convince me
that it is *my* fault that someone isn't accepting my emails. Because I
"chose the wrong hosting provider" and my (network) neighbours are
misbehaving.

It is an absurd assumption that I should be punished for misbehaviour of my
neighbours. I'm sure you wouldn't accept such rule in any other area of the
life; why would you accept it when it comes to e-mail?

Trying to convince me that my issue is my fault only and everyone else who
does not accept my mail is behaving perfectly OK is straightforward absurd.
Both from logical and ethical point of view. And no reasonable person could
accept that.

> In other words, while you may be a big hot shot in your world/mind,
> you aren't shit to Google...  Just like the rest of us aren't shit
> to Google when it comes down to it either.

Of course, you are right on this. Maybe it is just so, that big companies
ignore small external senders who are sending mail to them, simply because
they can, and we can't do anything about this (however, it's always worth
trying to check whether we really can't - and that's what I'm doing by posting
my issue on this list). But even if we can't do anything about this, we
should not pretend that everything is OK, they are correct, and it's the
sender's fault. No, on the contrary: we should state it explicitly and
clearly that this behaviour is not OK. Maybe we have to live with it; but
it doesn't make it less bad. Remember, "wrong is wrong, even if everybody
is doing it; right is right, even if nobody is doing it". And any bullshit
talk about having or not established business with someone cannot make wrong
thing a right thing.

And please everyone, stop trying to persuade me that it is my fault and I
should change the hosting provider, as it just adds nothing to help resolve
the issue and such discussion is going nowhere (no, changing the hosting
provider is *not* a solution, for many reasons).
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."

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