Re: [mailop] spam filters

[Lena--- via mailop]

> From: "Sebastian Nielsen" 

> for example *.xyz is a big spam hole... Don't know why spammers love
> that TLD, but 99.99 % from that TLD is spam. Would want to see *.xyz
> eradicated from the whole internet...

I communicated with 6 honest people with email addresses *.xyz

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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Graeme Fowler via mailop]

You lot will start a discussion on *anything* :)

On 25 Jan 2022, at 15:28, Bill Cole via mailop  wrote:
> I don't think Graeme was trying to speak to the people who actively have this 
> problemn but rather to those of us not yet afflicted. Good spam filters 
> evolve and it is better to protect yourself from letting them evolve to 
> disdain this list before it happens rather than waiting for a problem. Every 
> incident of spam filters rejecting list traffic can damage the functional 
> reputation of the list and the facilities it uses.

Thanks Bill, pretty much bang on.

The intent was for the majority of subscribers who lurk to have a think about 
how they might avoid getting kicked off the list. Not the "usual suspects", but 
those who metaphorically stand at the back of the room near the coffee machine.

For those not familar with Mailman, it processes bounces according to a rule 
marking them as "hard" (+1 point) or "soft" (+0.5). Only one increment happens 
per day. If the total score for a subscriber exceeds 10, then their membership 
is disabled. They then receive one notification every 7 days until 3 have been 
sent, at which point they are forcibly unsubscribed.

The bounce counter is reset to 0 once a subscriber doesn't bounce for 7 days.

So... we don't need to reach out to people, as the MLM software does that for 
us.

Cheers,

Graeme
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2022-01-25 at 11:11:29 UTC-0500 (Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:11:29 +0100)
Sebastian Nielsen via mailop 
is rumored to have said:

Writing the HTML color code font tag in a email isn't enough for 
example, since the caret's that are copy+pasted in a email are encoded 
into  and  meaning they don't get catched in the spam filter.


Only if one sends email in pure HTML, which is far from common, 
especially here. The usual multipart/alternative messages generated by 
common MUAs don't encode entities that are in the ASCII charset like <>.



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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Sebastian Nielsen via mailop]

Yeah, but it doesn't usually trigger my filters as they are more exact than so. 
I trigger on certain color codes (HTML snippets), URLs and such that are unique 
to spam. Its actually fairly effective since I usually get a spamwave that last 
like 1-2 months with like 10-20 spams a day with a common factor (a specific 
url, domain or color code) - I blacklist the common factor, and then the spam 
is gone for quite a period before the spamwave begins again.

Currently my content blacklist has like 5-6 entry's.

So just quoting a spam wont trigger it. It must be a verbatim copy, like 
attaching the spam to the email, that’s usually whats false triggers these 
filters. And no, I don't blacklist those that happen to often trigger the 
filters. Writing the HTML color code font tag in a email isn't enough for 
example, since the caret's that are copy+pasted in a email are encoded into 
 and  meaning they don't get catched in the spam filter.

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Bill Cole via mailop  
Skickat: den 25 januari 2022 16:21
Till: Sebastian Nielsen via mailop 
Ämne: Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

On 2022-01-25 at 06:53:20 UTC-0500 (Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:53:20 +0100) Sebastian 
Nielsen via mailop  is rumored to have said:

> should never trigger anything on this mailing list unless someone 
> copies a spam email into the mailing list

You do know that happens, right?

Not so often here as on more spam-specific lists, but posts here quote enough 
spam that I'd be rejecting traffic from this list just for being from this list 
(i.e. as a chronic sender of janky content) if I didn't have strong safeguards 
in place.


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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many 
*@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire 
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2022-01-25 at 07:56:01 UTC-0500 (Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:56:01 +)
Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop 
is rumored to have said:

Wouldn't it be more straightforward to inform those whose mailboxes 
generated the rejections, instead of posting a "public announcement" 
that leaves everyone guessing whether they may somehow unknowingly 
involved? I've encountered this kind of bringing public attention to a 
problem that actually is caused by few people, and it always leaves a 
somewhat uneasy feeling. Or is it actually a problem with so many 
mailboxes that it's just easier to notify the whole list? :-)


I don't think Graeme was trying to speak to the people who actively have 
this problemn but rather to those of us not yet afflicted. Good spam 
filters evolve and it is better to protect yourself from letting them 
evolve to disdain this list before it happens rather than waiting for a 
problem. Every incident of spam filters rejecting list traffic can 
damage the functional reputation of the list and the facilities it uses.



--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2022-01-25 at 06:53:20 UTC-0500 (Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:53:20 +0100)
Sebastian Nielsen via mailop 
is rumored to have said:

should never trigger anything on this mailing list unless someone 
copies a spam email into the mailing list


You do know that happens, right?

Not so often here as on more spam-specific lists, but posts here quote 
enough spam that I'd be rejecting traffic from this list just for being 
from this list (i.e. as a chronic sender of janky content) if I didn't 
have strong safeguards in place.



--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] Microsoft/Linode issue resolved

[John Gateley via mailop]

On 1/23/22 9:42 AM, John Gateley via mailop wrote:


3. After several tries, the Office365 mitigation process just stopped 
working. After the forward
I receive an email saying "we will respond in 24 hours". The first few 
times, this incuded
a link to the Office365 delisting process. But at some point, 
Microsoft stopped responding.
I would get the "we will respond" email, but never anything more. It 
was blamed on huge
traffic from Linode, but that wasn't the case (as it happened several 
times over many days

and I NEVER got a response).


Just to follow up, the responses are now coming in, 16 days after I did 
the original forward.


John
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Carsten Schiefner via mailop]

On 25.01.2022 13:56, Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote:
25. Januar 2022 10:32, "Graeme Fowler via mailop" > 
schrieb:


Morning (afternoon, evening, night!) everyone
Over the last couple of weeks an increasing number of subscribers
have either had their subscription disabled or been
auto-unsubscribed because list messages to them have bounced.

Wouldn't it be more straightforward to inform those whose mailboxes 
generated the rejections, instead of posting a "public announcement" 
that leaves everyone guessing whether they may somehow unknowingly 
involved? I've encountered this kind of bringing public attention to a 
problem that actually is caused by few people, and it always leaves a 
somewhat uneasy feeling. Or is it actually a problem with so many 
mailboxes that it's just easier to notify the whole list? :-)


And furthermore, what's the probability of a successful in-band 
reach-out to those having shown (temporary?) non-deliverances and 
bounces in the recent past for this very means of communication?


My guesstimation would likely add to Hans-Martin's suggestion to reach 
out to them on an individual basis.


Best,

-C.
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop]

25. Januar 2022 10:32, "Graeme Fowler via mailop" mailto:mailop@mailop.org?to=%22Graeme%20Fowler%20via%20mailop%22%20)>
 schrieb:
Morning (afternoon, evening, night!) everyoneOver the last couple of weeks an 
increasing number of subscribers have either had their subscription disabled or 
been auto-unsubscribed because list messages to them have bounced.Wouldn't it 
be more straightforward to inform those whose mailboxes generated the 
rejections, instead of posting a "public announcement" that leaves everyone 
guessing whether they may somehow unknowingly involved? I've encountered this 
kind of bringing public attention to a problem that actually is caused by few 
people, and it always leaves a somewhat uneasy feeling. Or is it actually a 
problem with so many mailboxes that it's just easier to notify the whole list? 
:-)

Cheers,
Hans-Martin
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Sebastian Nielsen via mailop]

I don't know if my address generate any bounces, but I don't have any content 
based spam filters (except for some explicit content that is identified by 
exact match - should never trigger anything on this mailing list unless someone 
copies a spam email into the mailing list).

Only thing I have is some security checks, that CAN trigger on mailing lists 
(DKIM, SPF, banned TLD's etc). For example, attempting to send a email to me 
from a *.xyz domain will result in a rejection unless listed on dnswl.org .
But that’s because for example *.xyz is a big spam hole... Don't know why 
spammers love that TLD, but 99.99 % from that TLD is spam. Would want to see 
*.xyz eradicated from the whole internet... Note that even if MAIL FROM is from 
the list host, if the MIME FROM contains a banned TLD, the email will be smoked 
aswell.

But guess that some bounces are okay, and a indication the source email is 
erroneous than the target host. And that the bounce rate may not be as high to 
get unsubscribed/disabled.

> Morning (afternoon, evening, night!) everyone
> 
> Over the last couple of weeks an increasing number of subscribers have 
> either had their subscription disabled or been auto-unsubscribed 
> because list messages to them have bounced.
> 
> Several of these have been reported in the NDR as being a result of 
> spam being detected in the message.
> 
> Whether you're using a 500lb Gorilla like M365, Gmail etc or a smaller 
> operation, or self-hosting then please take whatever steps you can 
> (safe/trusted senders, passlists etc) for mail from this list.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Graeme
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Re: [mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Carsten Schiefner via mailop]

Graeme & all -

if it wouldn't be this seriously concerning, a note of such content on a 
mailing list where one of the main purposes is to unblock mail blockages 
could be considered quite funny...


Best,

-C.

On 25.01.2022 10:32, Graeme Fowler via mailop wrote:

Morning (afternoon, evening, night!) everyone

Over the last couple of weeks an increasing number of subscribers have 
either had their subscription disabled or been auto-unsubscribed because 
list messages to them have bounced.


Several of these have been reported in the NDR as being a result of spam 
being detected in the message.


Whether you're using a 500lb Gorilla like M365, Gmail etc or a smaller 
operation, or self-hosting then please take whatever steps you can 
(safe/trusted senders, passlists etc) for mail from this list.


Thanks

Graeme

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[mailop] [Admin note] re spam filters

[Graeme Fowler via mailop]

Morning (afternoon, evening, night!) everyone

Over the last couple of weeks an increasing number of subscribers have 
either had their subscription disabled or been auto-unsubscribed because 
list messages to them have bounced.


Several of these have been reported in the NDR as being a result of spam 
being detected in the message.


Whether you're using a 500lb Gorilla like M365, Gmail etc or a smaller 
operation, or self-hosting then please take whatever steps you can 
(safe/trusted senders, passlists etc) for mail from this list.


Thanks

Graeme
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