[Marxism] currencies and IT

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The SWIFT exchange was in the news when Iran's access to it was threatened,
and was mentioned in passing today in a Times article now that sanctions
will be loosened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interbank_Financial_Telecommunication
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Re: [Marxism] From the Podemos hypothesis to the test of power

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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That's absurd, Louis. Just look at the diversity of Trotskyist approaches
to Greece - and the fact that all of them (us) were right about the recent
betrayal of Tsipras.
Your blanket, perennial condemnation (if a Trot says it, ignore it) is
apolitical.
As for the case in hand: comrades should read or re-read what Iglesias
himself says (links below). And read what the Trotskyist wing of Podemos
says: critical but constructive. Iglesias's no left or right ideology,
his bureaucratic approach to party democracy, inspires NO confidence that
he wouldn't pull a Tsipras if elected.
Which means we need to strengthen solidarity now with the more radical
elements of Podemos and independent grassroots forces.
http://newleftreview.org/II/93/pablo-iglesias-understanding-podemos
http://newleftreview.org/II/93/pablo-iglesias-spain-on-edge
and search for podemos at internationalviewpoint.org to see critiques by
Izquierda Anticapitalista

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 7/17/15 10:04 AM, Celeste Murillo via Marxism wrote:

 Following this was a series of “political gestures” towards sectors of the
 regime and the establishment, intended to demonstrate that Podemos was not
 a “radical movement” or “anti-system” (as the reactionary right in Spain
 accused them of being), but was instead a “citizens movement” and
 “moderate”, which sought to occupy the space which Social Democracy had
 vacated.


 For over 90 years the Trotskyist movement has perfected the art of
 criticism. It is basically a formula. You take some government or movement
 that fails to live up to its *idea* of what is needed so as to educate
 the mass movement. From Coyoacan Trotsky wrote all sorts of communiques on
 the treachery of the Popular Front while his own followers in Spain were
 ignored by the masses.

 If critique was the key to changing the world, then we'd be living in a
 Trotskyist/communist paradise for the past 75 years at least. In the
 Theses on Feuerbach, Marx wrote: Philosophers have hitherto only
 interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it. Change
 'Philosophers' to 'Trotskyists' and you'll get the idea.
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Re: [Marxism] Guardian: Mixed fortunes as solidarity economy takes root in Greece

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Although the article doesn't mention the solidarity4all network which I've
been talking about, the descriptions of individual groups sounds like
they're part of it.
A good time to re-read Lenin On Cooperation, in which he's amazingly firm
about co-ops being the core of a socialist economy, how everyone must
immediately organize co-ops where they're lacking.
Of course he's talking about doing so AFTER the working class has seized
power; but on the other hand before the revolution he always included
co-ops, mutual aid societies, etc., in his lists of working class
organizations that must join the fight for power.
And as I've mentioned before, solidarity4all says explicitly its self-help
focus is inextricably tied with its class struggle perspective.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/jan/06.htm


On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Shalva Eliava via Marxism 
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 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/17/solidarity-economy-greece-mixed-fortunes
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The end of capitalism has begun | Books | The Guardian

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Agreed re Louis's assessment.
Mason gets so much wrong. Given his renewed prominence thanks to his Greece
columns, and the general trendiness of his approach, this may be worth an
extended review.
PS: Patrick Bond is entirely correct in his citations from Toussaint.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 Paul Mason writes a long, interesting but wrongheaded article embracing
 the ideas of John Holloway without mentioning him.


 http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun
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Re: [Marxism] Greece: Donald Tusk warns of extremist political contagion

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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agreed, let's move on
in that spirit: doesn't it seem remarkable that the mainstream press has
had to quote the Left Platform and various of its members openly calling
for nationalization of the banks, sometimes with the added under worker
control?
Yes, I know, every bourgeois populist and their sister has nationalized
banks.
But obviously the dynamic is different here.
(And by the way I bet in discussions in the US some workers would say
that's what we shoulda done to those fuckers in 2008 when they crashed OUR
economy!)

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 On 7/17/15 9:14 AM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote:

 Donald Tusk may have no such fear. As demonstrated in this list
 revolutions are just impossible for technical reasons (lack of
 appropriate software etc)


 Instead of caviling about my observation, maybe you can put forward some
 ideas on how Antarsya can become the vanguard of the Greek people now that
 Syriza has been discredited. The spotlight is on you and the KKE now.

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Re: [Marxism] FT: Greek cleaners swept out of work as Tsipras’s defiance fades

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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subscriber only

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Shalva Eliava via Marxism 
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 Very sad...

 http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0115f5ea-2af2-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7.html
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Re: [Marxism] Greece: general strikes and factory occupations

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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That was my point. THIS general strike could be different because after the
experience of failed previous strikes and failed parliamentary
efforts,workers are open as never before to NOT going home when the strike
ends...

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism 
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 As Louis noted, general strikes in Greece are somewhat a dime a dozen.  The
 Greek ruling class has long since grown accustomed to them.  The problem is
 that the workers strike for a day and then go back to work and nothing has
 changed.

 The point about a general strike is that unless they're connected to the
 question of *actual power* they are quite easily managed in a country like
 Greece which has so many of them.  (Of course, in many capitalist
 countries, any strike wave around workers' rights would be a step
 forward!!!)

 One of the problems in Greece is the one Louis alluded to.  That Greek
 workers had general strike after general strike and in the end, because
 they didn't get anywhere, opted to use parliamentary politics and voted for
 Syriza.  The electoral process ran ahead of the process on the ground.

 Unless workers were occupying workplaces and beginning to organise
 alternative structures of power, the possibilities for serious resistance,
 let alone going on the offensive, were limited.  For instance, what if the
 government nationalised the banks, without workers having occupied them and
 demanding workers' control over them?

 Tsipras was always going to do a deal, he's a social democrat at best.
 Surely the role of the left was to prepare for that eventuality.

 In 2013 I interviewed a spokesperson for the Vio.me factory occupation in
 Thessaloniki and he told me that after the general strikes and mass
 protests, the Greek working class had gone home and tried to make ends meet
 the best they could.  Vio.me was very much an exception.  But this, it
 seems to me, is the road that hasn't been taken but offers a fruitful
 alternative to trying to manage things within the confines of capitalism.
 And surely the chief task of the global left is not around bemoaning the
 fact that a social democrat acted in a social democratic way, but advancing
 the struggle where we are and supporting concrete advances by workers in
 Greece, like the Vio.me occupation.

 The interview is here:

 https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/workers-self-management-only-solution-interview-with-spokesperson-for-vio-me-occupation/

 It links also to other articles on the occupation and a video:

 https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/workers-self-management-only-solution-interview-with-spokesperson-for-vio-me-occupation/

 Phil
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Re: [Marxism] last words on Greece

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I just finished the Panitch/Gindin article and came here to rant (and to
bemoan Gindin's participation; I expected better of him given his decades
of grassroots labor work), but Gary and Michael have said it all. Can I
quote you both on Facebook? (all these messages are visible anyway on the
web :)

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 8:40 PM, Michael Yates via Marxism 
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 Hear! Hear! Gary. I am afraid that Leo and Sam seem to be getting wronger
 on so many issues the older they get. Whatever happened to their mantra
 about building people's capacities, or at least trying to do so? Also,
 there is  lot of what we might call historical amnesia. Too many people say
 that all left projects have failed because they were doomed to fail. And
 this is because their adversaries were just too powerful. This is surely an
 incorrect method of analysis. Why were the Bolsheviks doomed to fail? Why
 was the restoration of capitalism in China inevitable? Why was Greece
 doomed to make the most awful capitulations to the troika? It seems that
 critics of what one man called the ultra-left, meaning not sectarians but
 all to the left of Syriza, look at everything after the fact, and say,
 well, no wonder they failed. Not because they failed to make a detailed and
 sophisticated of the forces at play and plan to find the best was to combat
 their enemy's power, but because, well, their adversaries were just too
 damned powerful. As this same guy said, The fucking Germans, man. Best to
 give in and wait for a better day. Of course, the better day usually never
 comes, and we find ourselves facing the grave. But let one of us say that
 they failed to do what needed to be done, and we are accused of looking at
 things through technicolor glasses. Or told that we didn't read the polls
 taken to see what people thought at some point in time, never realizing
 that life is lived in a dynamic and ever-changing context, one in which
 politicls always comes into play.
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[Marxism] General strike called in Greece against the deal

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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There are also calls on facebook for demos everywhere Wednesday at 7:30 but
I don't know yet whether that will pick up steam (hope so!)

from Facebook:
Kevin Ovenden
https://www.facebook.com/kevin.ovenden/posts/10155744653615468?fref=nf
General strike called in Greece against the deal
(Please share)

The public sector trade union federation in Greece, ADEDY, has called a
general strike for Wednesday.
The strike against the Third Memorandum will be officially announced
tomorrow. But activists throughout the public sector unions have begun
organising for the stoppage this aft ernoon.
The parliament has to agree the new memorandum by midnight on Wednesday.
If MPs are to vote tomorrow, then the strike will be brought forward to
tomorrow.
Angela Merkel *increased* the pressure on the Greek government even after
it capitulated. She said that monitoring of moves to implement the
memorandum would be strict and begin immediately. She is not certain that
this government can pass the memorandum - still less implement it.
The fight is on. It is not off. The Greek government may have capitulated
rather than rupture with the mafia eurozone.
Now an attempt to impose an austerity *July coup against the Greek
popular masses risks a different rupture. Between working class Greece and
the powers which should not be.
The Brussels talks settled nothing. Because the power that delivered the
Oxi revolt was not at them. That is the Greek working class with the
fighting forces of the radical left at its heart.
Solidarity with resisting Greece.
*The last such attempted parliamentary coup against the popular will (as
opposed to coup d'etat) of this magnitude was 50 years ago this week - July
1965.
It marked the beginning of the end of the post-civil war order in Greece.
It finally ended with the overthrow of dictatorship in 1974. It is from
that date that the rise of the modern radical left in Greece, as an open
force, begins.
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Re: [Marxism] General strike called in Greece against the deal

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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... and Wednesday's general strike is a means to getting to that point
(i.e. Louis's last paragraph).
Another comrade offlist drew the same false equivalence between the dozens
of prior strikes and the upcoming one.
The Greek masses turned to Syriza after the strikes proved insufficient.
Now they're re-mobilizing after seeing the inadequacy of the Syriza
leadership.
They're not returning to square one, but launching strike action on the
basis of more experience in both economic and political spheres.
So the strike will be a huge boost to those who want a Europe-wide
antiausterity movement (actually there already is one, which is why Merkel
insisted on crushing Syriza). And the Greek masses go into the strike
knowing they need a new and improved political expression of their
militancy.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/13/15 9:55 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote:

 The public sector trade union federation in Greece, ADEDY, has called a
 general strike for Wednesday.


 General strikes were a frequent occurrence in Greece. They had zero
 effect. On the other hand, a general strike in Germany would make a huge
 difference.

 I have also seen calls on Facebook for assemblies in Syntagma Square as if
 a rehash of the occupy movement could put a dent in the German ruling class.

 In Latin America up until the development of the Bolivarian revolution,
 imperialism had its way. Nicaragua was crushed and so was El Salvador and
 Guatemala.

 In fact Latin America, which was in the same kind of relationship to the
 USA that Greece is to Germany, suffered countless defeats for a hundred
 years. Just read John Gerassi's The Great Fear in Latin America.

 The only thing that will work in Europe is a continent wide anti-austerity
 movement that will be bolstered by mass movements that can put the ruling
 classes on the defensive, as well as a string of governments that can be
 partners of the mass movement.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The Pantomime of The Greek Deal

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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who is this guy?
I certainly would not contribute to his crowdfunding appeal!

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 This is my initial reaction to the deal proposal by Greece: it is more
 austerity -harsh austerity at that - and many of the measures are
 recessionary. Distribution of the burden seems to me fairer than before. If
 the upside is access to a significant stimulus package (front-loaded), a
 smoothing of the measures (back-loaded) and substantial restructuring of
 debt, to make it definitively viable, it will probably be seen as worth it.
 It is certainly capable of being sold as worth it.

 Essentially, everyone managing to keep their position/perks/income in the
 context of an economy which is in the middle of a death spiral, is
 meaningless. If the economy begins to recover, then things which were
 unbearable, become bearable. Austerity becomes a background noise, rather
 than a preoccupation and a progressive government will be able to offset
 the damage. It is a delicate balance.

 Market confidence is a strange creature. There is a lot of money sloshing
 around at the moment, taken out of China which is in free-fall. Money which
 is bulging to be invested. All it takes is an intangible notion that Greece
 has hit the low point, for investment to return. Whether this package
 achieves that balance or not, will have to be assessed over time, as the
 detail of each measure becomes known and away from the adrenaline and
 hysteria of negotiation fever.

 Instant, dramatic, pantomime reactions of the type Tsipras just destroyed
 Greece and Tsipras just saved Europe are numerous and deeply unhelpful.
 He has done neither. This isn't a booing or cheering moment. He simply has
 tried to balance his two basic mandate commands to a. end austerity and b.
 stay within the Euro, which turned out to be pretty much mutually
 exclusive, in an ideologically propagated, German-controlled climate. As
 that became clear, one had to be prioritised over the other. It is fair to
 say that a shrewder assessment at the start may have revealed them to be
 mutually exclusive, but shoulda-coulda-wouldas are also not particularly
 constructive.

 full: https://www.byline.com/column/11/article/155
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Re: [Marxism] Polls that challenge the mantra that most Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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bravo

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism 
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 On Jul 14, 2015, at 7:12 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

  First off, it still seems that Greeks want to stay in the euro. While a
 poll at the end of 2014 by Gallup International found that 52% of Greeks
 would prefer to have the Drachma over the euro, this seems to be something
 of a rogue poll. All other polls have consistently shown Greek support for
 the euro.

 There has been a lot of informed comment in academic circles and in the
 financial as well as left-wing media that Greece would be better off
 leaving the eurozone than continuing to be subjected to the grinding
 austerity and deep depression, with little hope of economic recovery, which
 characterizes its current situation. The argument is that Greece would
 recover if it were free to devalue its own currency - that it could less
 painlessly recover its competitiveness though an “external” devaluation of
 the drachma as opposed to a savage “internal” devaluation based on driving
 down the cost of labour and social benefits. Even the initial shock of the
 transition to a new currency could be eased if Greece were able to
 negotiate an orderly exit with the eurozone powers who, together with the
 US, have a strategic interest in ensuring a stable Greece on their borders.

 Whatever you may think of that argument, this debate has never really
 filtered down to the Greek masses who support Syriza’s social program,
 largely because the pro-euro party leadership has rejected this option from
 the beginning. This is the foremost reason why most public opinion polls
 skew heavily in favour of continued eurozone membership.

 However much the two issues are linked, however, the referendum wasn’t
 about continued eurozone membership but about the austerity package. And
 the deeper issue, as always, is: Who decides these life-or-death issues:
 the people or the party, the leaders or the working class?

 We wouldn’t be having this discussion if the Greeks had voted by 61% to
 accept the austerity package that was proposed to them in the referendum.
 The Tsipras leadership would have had the result it was hoping for, despite
 its cosmetic campaign in favour of a No, and that would be that. It could
 return to Brussels to sign the surrender terms with the mandate of the
 Greek people securely in its pocket. We might still lament the outcome, but
 case closed. It is for the Greeks themselves to decide, not us, not the
 leaders they elected.

 We’re having this discussion precisely because the Tsipras leadership
 chose to ignore the overwhelming rejection of the austerity package. It
 acted as if as the popular democracy did not exist, and the popular classes
 had not decisively pronounced on the issue. It promptly signalled its
 willingness to the eurozone powers that, despite the referendum result, it
 was prepared to continue negotiating the terms of surrender. And it did so
 in concert with the widely despised opposition parties .

 How can we condone this about-face by the leadership, any more than we can
 condone a union leadership arbitrarily and unexpectedly capitulating to the
 employer the day after its members roundly reject an agreement assaulting
 their living standards and working conditions? Even if it were a
 well-intentioned union leadership which considered it was acting in the
 best interests of its poor benighted members who did not really understand
 the implications of what they were voting for?

 As an old comrade once remarked to me, “my first loyalty is to the working
 class, then to the party or trade union which purports to act in its name.”




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Re: [Marxism] last words on Greece

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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My recollection (never a reliable source :) , but still) is that Sam has
always been on the (now-defeated) progressive side of the CAW, was
supportive of UAW reformers, and generally comfortable in the Labor Notes
milieu.
Last time I saw him was a couple months ago when he had driven down to hear
Irvin Jim of NUMSA in NY.
None of which makes his terrible position now a complete shock, but still...

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:14 AM, Marv Gandall marvga...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Jul 13, 2015, at 11:38 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

  I just finished the Panitch/Gindin article and came here to rant (and to
  bemoan Gindin's participation; I expected better of him given his decades
  of grassroots labor work),

 Gindin was research director of the Canadian Auto Workers for many years
 and then assistant to union presidents Bob White and Buzz Hargrove. I don’t
 believe he’s had had any “grassroots” union experience as a local activist
 or organizer. He studied and taught economics and worked as a researcher
 for the Manitoba NDP before joining the CAW, and, of course, has been
 closely connected with Leo Panitch and the York University political
 science department since his retirement.


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Re: [Marxism] Polls that challenge the mantra that most Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The fact of the matter is that Greek workers ARE watching to see who is
supporting them. I've seen the same thing in solidarity work around the
MENA region and elsewhere: activists in the country concerned always report
on encouraging conversations they have with workers after showing them even
just selfies from around the world supporting their cause.
There are now 2 or 3 dozen cities around the world holding support rallies
tomorrow for the Greek general strike and for a continued Oxi, and the
Panitches are hurting that effort.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:23 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 7/14/15 9:18 AM, Marv Gandall wrote:

 Whatever you may think of that argument, this debate has never really
 filtered down to the Greek masses who support Syriza’s social
 program, largely because the pro-euro party leadership has rejected
 this option from the beginning. This is the foremost reason why most
 public opinion polls skew heavily in favour of continued eurozone
 membership.


 But you can be sure that things will turn around as a result of your and
 Jim Creegan's courageous and principled intervention here. In fact I can
 easily picture the dock workers in Athens right now huddled around a laptop
 beaming with joy as they look at the Marxmail archives saying, Now we have
 the heavy artillery on our side. German bankers, watch the fuck out.

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Re: [Marxism] Polls that challenge the mantra that most Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Louis YOU DIDN'T READ WHAT I SAID. I wasn't talking about marxmail, I was
talking about Greek workers seeing photos of SOLIDARITY DEMONSTRATIONS
around the world.
Marxmail and Facebook discussions matter because they encourage (or
discourage in Panitch's case) such REAL WORLD MOBILIZATION WHICH GREEK
WORKERS ARE FOLLOWING.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/14/15 9:39 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

 The fact of the matter is that Greek workers ARE watching to see who is
 supporting them.


 Oh please. Writing anguished denunciations of Alexis Tsipras on Marxmail
 is not supporting Greek workers. I would describe it more as political
 onanism.


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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Well yes, in fact, the consolidation of all banks into one means you can
rip out much of the coding. Same for every other sector of the economy
which would be rationalized: the amount of data and calculations of same
required is drastically reduced when you don't have millions of individual
firms recalculating every day their prices, their stocks (both financial
and real), etc.

Greece's solidarity4all network is showing in practice how only the most
rudimentary calculations are needed to keep track of the flow of thousands
of volunteer hours and millions of euros worth of donated goods. A good set
of input-output tables run through computers not much more powerful than
the one each of us is typing on would handle most of the computing chores
required for Greek society as a whole. And even the work needed to do
calculations of foreign trade would be dramatically reduced once the state
has a monopoly on control of such trade. (Plus think of the concentration
of import/export and shipping firms globally in recent decades.)

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/14/15 1:51 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

 . I've spent 15 years working with computer systems at a hospital, in
 which a couple dozen systems, some compatible with each other, some not,
 capture all of the patient's demographic, financial and clinical
 information. 50% of that data would be unnecessary in a single-payer
 system, 95% of it in a socialized healthcare sector. The point being
 that the availability of complex computer systems means they fill a void
 that probably didn't need to be created in the first place.


 Got it. Greece has to combine all its banks into a single bank to start
 off. That will make the job of writing 60 billion lines of code a lot
 easier, especially given Greece's enormous pool of IT specialists. (Wake me
 when this Trotskyist fantasy nightmare is over.)

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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You've just proven my point.
1. I guarantee you that 95% of the Goldman Sachs overhaul you were involved
in was socially unnecessary.
2. Obamacare's computing snafus are 100% down to creating a Rube
Goldberg-machine system of competing insurers who need data on millions
of independent patients, providers and suppliers (and the latter as a
result needing to find data on the former). The exchanges which took so
much work and re-work to get up and running were only created for the
benefit of insurance companies.
I invite any of the Brits on list to speak to what kind of mammoth computer
systems were needed to set up your socialized medicine system (that's
irony, folks).

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 2:27 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/14/15 2:19 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

 Well yes, in fact, the consolidation of all banks into one means you can
 rip out much of the coding. Same for every other sector of the economy
 which would be rationalized: the amount of data and calculations of same
 required is drastically reduced when you don't have millions of
 individual firms recalculating every day their prices, their stocks
 (both financial and real), etc.


 This baloney might impress someone who has never written a program but it
 doesn't impress me.

 A typical large scale project in a major corporation takes anywhere from
 three to five years to complete, and that's without consolidating a bunch
 of them into a single state owned firm, which is what you are obviously
 talking about. It is one thing to make such a statement on a Marxism list
 off the top of your head and it is another to create the infrastructure,
 carry out the systems analysis, and then finally code and test a complex
 system. The USA had enormous money and manpower and look at what a fiasco
 Obamacare was before it was debugged. Is it the idea that a socialist
 Grexit will make protection exceptions and program loops obsolete? Amazing.

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Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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sorry, I hit Send accidentally; here's the finished paragraph from the
middle of my post:
The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make
more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer
and IT business systems. (It IS used to speed up the supply chain, but that
affects only distribution, not production; which however, as I explained re
Walmart, is nothing to sneeze at re potential future rationalization and
therefore minimization of needed computer code in the economy-wide sphere
of distribution.)

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Yes, the upcoming battles are key, and it's no mystery where they will
 come. For instance see quote from linked article below.
 But Louis's logic STILL argues against a revolution anywhere, anytime. As
 the country with the most, and most complex, IT systems, a socialist
 revolution in the US would by his logic be forever impossible.
 This brings us to the productivity paradox, i.e. the decades-old
 conundrum of why computerization hasn't transformed the economy the way
 railroads and then auto did.
 The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make
 more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer
 and IT business systems. (It
 That's why, for instance, nurse unions point out that successively more
 complex healthcare IT systems - which DO capture more and more patient data
 - DON'T mean higher quality or safety in healthcare (whereas higher nurse
 staffing WOULD). Yet hospitals (including my own) are always competing with
 each other to get the newest, biggest systems - and when the conversion is
 made it requires countless (wasted) person-hours.

 One could read on a banner deployed before the Parliament: “No to
 privatizations, let us save the ports, DEI (national electricity company),
 the hospitals”.
 http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4130


 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote:

 Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are
 trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a
 sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special
 about the technological structure of Greek capitalism?


 Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with
 a plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone
 bigs is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new
 currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did
 moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive
 projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece
 or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug
 pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital
 drain.

 In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this
 point. We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected
 Syriza members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of
 working in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus
 should be on what's next and not on what just happened.

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Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Yes, the upcoming battles are key, and it's no mystery where they will
come. For instance see quote from linked article below.
But Louis's logic STILL argues against a revolution anywhere, anytime. As
the country with the most, and most complex, IT systems, a socialist
revolution in the US would by his logic be forever impossible.
This brings us to the productivity paradox, i.e. the decades-old
conundrum of why computerization hasn't transformed the economy the way
railroads and then auto did.
The answer is simple: IT is not used to rationalize, simplify, and make
more efficient the economy. It's designed to sell more goods, both consumer
and IT business systems. (It
That's why, for instance, nurse unions point out that successively more
complex healthcare IT systems - which DO capture more and more patient data
- DON'T mean higher quality or safety in healthcare (whereas higher nurse
staffing WOULD). Yet hospitals (including my own) are always competing with
each other to get the newest, biggest systems - and when the conversion is
made it requires countless (wasted) person-hours.

One could read on a banner deployed before the Parliament: “No to
privatizations, let us save the ports, DEI (national electricity company),
the hospitals”.
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4130


On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 7/16/15 8:20 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote:

 Is the suggestion here that all of the peoples in the eurozone are
 trapped in it because the technical problems of converting to a
 sovereign currency are intractable, or is there something special
 about the technological structure of Greek capitalism?


 Absolutely not. But all this talk about Tsipras should have come up with a
 plan B while he was in these intense negotiations with the eurozone bigs
 is nuts. As I have repeatedly tried to explain, converting to a new
 currency requires a full project life-cycle implementation just as it did
 moving from a drachma to the euro. I have been involved with 5 such massive
 projects during my career so I can guarantee you that it would take Greece
 or any other euro-based nations a full 3 years to effect a change. As Doug
 pointed out, such a declared intention would have consequences of capital
 drain.

 In any case, the challenge is more political than technical at this point.
 We have a left developing in Greece today out of the disaffected Syriza
 members, Antarsya and the KKE (not that these people are capable of working
 in a united front). As I urged a FB friend yesterday, the focus should be
 on what's next and not on what just happened.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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What's your point, Joe? You seem to have missed mine (and Dave x didn't
even make an effort to get it).
My point is that the overwhelming majority of code written today is a
complete waste, because it's written for an economy of millions of
fragmented economic actors. I cite Walmart to show that however many
millions of lines of code they would need to rewrite in a y2k or currency
changeover situation, those millions are qualitatively fewer than would
need to be rewritten for a changeover involving thousands of isolated
retailers.
Institutions change computer systems every so often, and they have to do
tremendous amounts of recoding and uploading and translating data and code.
IT DOESN'T BANKRUPT THEM, anymore than currency changes do or y2k did.
Read the pdf Louis sent (including especially the part about organizational
changes impacting  coding).
And Louis et al., stop hiding your cowardice in the face of bourgeois
politicians behind a surface understanding of the connection between the
social and technological.
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism 
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 On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:09 PM, dave x via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

 I dealt with that in my paper a couple decades ago but briefly: in the
  first stage of socialism you need computers to track prices of good,
  volumes of sales, etc. ALL OF WHICH REQUIRES NO MORE SOPHISTICATION THAN
  THE SYSTEM CURRENTLY USED BY WALMART.
 
  I wonder how many millions of lines of code Walmart has. Anyone who
 thinks
  this is simple is deluding themselves.


 I think anyone who's ever examined Walmart's supply chain and distribution
 channel snickered a little bit at that. It's incredibly sophisticated, and
 has taken decades of continuous refinement.

 Everyone knows that Walmart's revenues are roughly twice Greece's GDP, yes?

 --
 Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
 lytlað.
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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exactly. But its scope means it has superceded older,  smaller, fragmented
equivalents -- as Engels would say, it has been objectively socialized, and
is there just waiting to be taken over. (Which is why I'm so glad activists
are working in the supply chain.)

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Joseph Catron jncat...@gmail.com wrote:

 Only that a system comparable to Walmart's can't possibly come together
 overnight, or cheaply for that matter. It's grown alongside the chain itself
 since 1962, and while I don't know exactly how to measure its costs, or
 whether it's even possible to separate them from other expenses, I'm
 aware they've been tremendous.

 On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 What's your point, Joe?


 --
 Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
 lytlað.

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[Marxism] Obama helps screw Greek workers

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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You can be sure liberals will be hailing this as proof of Obama's good will
and progressive politics, rather than an interimperialist maneuver, or as a
slicker imposition of austerity and misery. From the Guardian's live update:

Greece’s deputy PM, Yannis Dragasakis, has credited Washington with
helping to get an agreement with creditors which includes a commitment to
consider debt relief:

Speaking before tonight’s vote, Dragasakis said:

 “I have to publicly thank the U.S. government and Mr.(President Barack)
Obama as without their help and persistence that the deal has to include
the debt issue and development horizon we might have not succeeded,”

— Stavros Kallinos (@StKallinos) July 15, 2015
https://twitter.com/StKallinos/status/621210031380426752

*DRAGASAKIS SAYS AGREEMENT WASN'T A DEFEAT FOR GREECE

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/15/greek-crisis-mps-bailout-imf-debt-relief-alexis-tsipras-live#block-55a60e61e4b07f297df2ffb5
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Re: [Marxism] Obama helps screw Greek workers

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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forgot to mention: Dragasakis is the right-wing economist who Kouvelakis
mentions in the Jacobin interview as the leading force in pushing Syriza to
accept troika et al. terms.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com
wrote:

 You can be sure liberals will be hailing this as proof of Obama's good
 will and progressive politics, rather than an interimperialist maneuver, or
 as a slicker imposition of austerity and misery. From the Guardian's live
 update:

 Greece’s deputy PM, Yannis Dragasakis, has credited Washington with
 helping to get an agreement with creditors which includes a commitment to
 consider debt relief:

 Speaking before tonight’s vote, Dragasakis said:

  “I have to publicly thank the U.S. government and Mr.(President Barack)
 Obama as without their help and persistence that the deal has to include
 the debt issue and development horizon we might have not succeeded,”

 — Stavros Kallinos (@StKallinos) July 15, 2015
 https://twitter.com/StKallinos/status/621210031380426752

 *DRAGASAKIS SAYS AGREEMENT WASN'T A DEFEAT FOR GREECE


 http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/15/greek-crisis-mps-bailout-imf-debt-relief-alexis-tsipras-live#block-55a60e61e4b07f297df2ffb5

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Re: [Marxism] Yves Smith's comment

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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These are all very real potential problems.
With the accent on potential.
Some will require temporary workarounds - which is what governments of all
kinds due during natural disasters, wars, sanctions, etc. (Perhaps the
biggest/quickest changeover ever - the US conversion of auto et al. to
ship/tank/etc. building - happened with no assistance from computers.
Some will require reorganizing production and distribution to lessen the
amount of changeover needed.
Some will require negotiations with foreign businesses to cut exporters
slack (which brings us back to the monopoly of foreign trade I mentioned
yesterday). And eventually finding trading partners who don't want to
exploit you (how dependent, by the way, is ALBA on computers? I suspect not
much).
I'll mention again the story told in Eden Medina's book about how the most
primitive computers - and even pen and paper - were used to coordinate
production and distribution during a boss lock-out in Chile.
Don't get me wrong, as I've shown in my articles on computers and
socialism, the more we can use computers efficiently, the better.
But efficiently means finding social changes to decrease the amount of
computing required.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 Yves Smith
 July 15, 2015 at 6:02 am

 1. It took ten years of planning and three years of execution for the euro
 launch to go smoothly.

 2. Badly planned and executed IT projects cannot be fixed. They generally
 have to be terminated. The failure rate of large IT projects is over 50%.

 3. The performance standards for payments systems are extremely high. This
 is mission critical levels of accuracy and uptime. If you get it wrong, you
 are out of business very quickly. And from a national perspective, payments
 systems that are not up to scratch are not permitted to connect to the
 international “grid”. The Vatican is a noteworthy example.

 4. As we have explained at considerable length in earlier posts, getting
 the drachma working from an IT standpoint does not just involve Greece
 doing its part, which is considerable, but lots of other independent
 parties doing their part, such as participants in the fragmented
 credit/debit card business.

 5. Tell me how Greece survives if it has to carry on as it does now, with
 effectively no payments system. Importers can’t pay for imports unless they
 truck cash to the border, dump it into foreign banks, and then wire it to
 importers, or alternatively, bring it to the premises of their foreign
 suppliers (and some literally are doing that now). And what happens when
 they run out of cash on hand, as in euros? Plus even if Greece gets drachma
 into circulation, which is a twelve to eighteen month project (it’s not
 just the printing, the physical distribution, as in getting it into ATMs,
 is a huge task, and you also have to have the coding done to support that),
 foreign suppliers will want euros, so you’ll also have foreign exchange
 risk. Greece is not self sufficient in food and supplies will start getting
 tight as of the end of July.

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[Marxism] Fwd: opportunity for US-Greece solidarity: Fw: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30 Med icare Actions

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Greek pensioners are getting hit at least 3 ways from Sunday: 1) the
healthcare sector is in shambles; 2) their pensions are being cut back; and
3) the VAT tax is decimating their budgets.
The 50th anniversary celebration/protests for Medicare in the US are an
opportunity for us to make the connections. Lord knows our seniors are in
dire straits themselves on the same fronts.
Free, socialized healthcare under worker/community control, from the US to
Greece!
55 and out retirement at union-scale wages, from America to Athens!
(ps concrete solidarity is already under way from nurse unions here, more
on that soon.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Andrew Pollack acpolla...@juno.com
Date: Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 3:16 PM
Subject: opportunity for US-Greece solidarity: Fw: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30
Med icare Actions
To: acpolla...@gmail.com




-- Forwarded Message --
From: Mark Dudzic Labor Campaign for Single Payer 
organiz...@laborforsinglepayer.org
To: acpolla...@juno.com
Subject: AFL-CIO Endorses July 30 Medicare Actions
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 19:04:34 +




 Dear a,

We are two weeks away from the *July 30 Celebration of Medicare's 50th
Birthday.*  Activists will gather in 42 cities in 21 states
http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h0/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16noyRw5QKdlsGQ3gN4rO9d42V9sn0ystbFF3mW-2FTiovRG8GXwHVjOeTWrvY04al0Im6RRxAmJqBVvVMJhwz7HKhPyhIImC1g1oIuzrEQf8UlDh0twI-2F2JYRKVOqM8iTN-2B1XWKX5bgj7AgCdKHzBPIwTeBNMbPg-2BdRbP4TZkhwPMV0Eft8k-2F9anHrOV-2BGJUmFTHVpwMMSIaEI6RsqAH4-2FWywEkDg5e-2ByAwFq4YbD3MFMPV6MpGHqFBSk-2BMM2EUU5Viq8DLdZmm1-2FTihIXFQypcKRk-3D
to honor one of our most successful social insurance programs and to call
on the American people to work to *Protect *it, *Improve *it and *Expand *
it.

In a letter to affiliates
http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h1/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16npSYjAkocA5leUGYBMdg616DBjMwNlCuD21VKaSdOrvYiWe470F-2FTlxSQhYcSXXKGqgSFTe-2BI1T-2FdKMhc-2B3Bbe-2FfchGkkFs3HiPKf-2FoBqvgZwms36QHzOEuQmQQLkZcHpOHrwbLxHyWjDJVcYan5P4E1AvTQFA9bOcymDWpCDDzIwyXeoqoXqxXYBXhYPudjO2tdaa3zV40QnwZ5QrmfJOviPYJTRHBYNRsJrRsL2J-2BTMq24lTM6Ft5QhysiL09dF0RFfQdonYds7W8bBgiCT-2BhrBYGo91z3eLlsSh2wZEjwzgWTHWlRi1s-2B-2Fbkf4K-2FdNw-3D-3D,
AFL-CIO President *Richard Trumka *urged all of labor to come together to
mark this momentous occasion. [A]dopting improved Medicare for All is the
only solution to the increasing cost and access problems of our current
healthcare system, wrote Trumka.

You can help make this day a success:

   - Find your local celebration here
   
http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h2/e4E9U5TsreWOLomGt-2B16noyRw5QKdlsGQ3gN4rO9d42V9sn0ystbFF3mW-2FTiovRG8GXwHVjOeTWrvY04al0Im6RRxAmJqBVvVMJhwz7HKhPyhIImC1g1oIuzrEQf8UlDh0twI-2F2JYRKVOqM8iTN-2B1XWKX5bgj7AgCdKHzBPIwTeBNMbPg-2BdRbP4TZkhwPMV0Eft8k-2F9anHrOV-2BGJUmFTHVpwMMSIaEI6RsqAH4-2FWywEkDg5e-2ByAwFq4YbD3MFMPV6MpGHqFBSk-2BMM2EUU5Viq8DLdZmm1-2FTihIXFQypcKRk-3D
   or join us in Washington DC for a day of rallies, briefings and lobbying
   beginning at 9:30 AM in  Upper Senate Park.
   
http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h3/oiDRR8WVXqfMZ7swwXuKd7xlL7r9Jds3CpHp3QRDR-2FWpoMWq32h7sh9zka9GqFhBPUkWjtjPxKLBN3muJoBMmIO4oqfimsw-2FZYFbVz-2FkAf8ic1uHMHmEHjuLsOzbBo14QAUD6OYRBnWWp-2BKkweFFLKG69888uYq4iFsF5ImtH-2FYlxIg2jBL-2F-2Fz-2F2qUW9HjkYchWgw-2FgapnOYUbiKfNOavpZvmiXEoz8mDFds-2BBmo0n9fGtFIn4uMWqcnuJXrjchWmcHLLfTHaTM5pkkvGPeV9f8oSzkloIhfSsAyHDkhv2tF1HaUeWQcOuVsTPT6Wgz2zOd796XxGQxu5rScgnSGimqYuXOHztBeKf0WA9gQmoAjfPJrYUCN-2BaRVSQZyCPj-2BDcc4-2Fnu9wWSgcDmy85R2jg-3D-3D
   - Ask your local union to endorse and participate in an event near you.
   - Contact your local Central Labor Council
   
http://mailings.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3AA/ni0YAA/t.1or/ZUBOfKizST-bjq6TWR4y_Q/h4/GmvsifzDqUiJ01-2B2MhZwY-2F1GUPi18VYBkNTyM27Dbf5b97orHbGnWK1HncJNDAjmngvFG0pJdn2OeLLWmFO7LFL2TQnuljz15H0kZ7ccRjCDJcHUqDpb3RLnxitEZ7p630cJWG-2BCe8q3uRBahX7ikvcp7C2J-2BrsE4aEI2t6pMRW3-2FS9npqriuCdL-2BvPjYg-2BNP7xXFxehHCg41kZJkz6u9Xro-2FcBeC5R3eY1VuA60pKcoxh6EqDCk9tR5b6WCcqqBLbD2D6ZA4anWTSw2u9t6eIOkf8AgePTjkHEp4s-2FoSPQ-3D
   and local chapter of the Alliance of Retired Americans (ARA)
   

Re: [Marxism] AP Exclusive: Palestinians quit medical study in Venezuela

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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actually I read it as a misunderstanding about what is indeed an MD
program, but one tailored to a more radical and valid approach. At the same
time, the students who thought they would get more traditional training
deserve empathy.
It would be nice if this could be worked out.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Joseph Catron via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 For others who are curious, I think I've got this thing figured out. It
 sounds like these students thought they were going to an MD program, but
 then discovered it was actually a PhD program. The initial confusion,
 according
 one, was the error of the PA, not Venezuela.

 I don't know how early in the morning you have to wake up to pull off
 a shit-show
 like that, or like the AP article for that matter!

 --
 Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen
 lytlað.
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Re: [Marxism] [Pen-l] Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right…

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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this requires explanation; if I'm reading it right it's inappropriate for
this list:
Don't forget Schnauble, you ingrate.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 On 7/16/15 7:41 PM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote:

 I would without hesitation have stood with Konstantopoulou, Lafazanis,
 Stratoulis,


 Don't forget Schnauble, you ingrate.
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Re: [Marxism] Schnauble veers to the left

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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the subject line (him veering to the left) appears to be baiting grexit
supporters as allies of reaction. If so, this too is inappropriate for this
list.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/world/europe/eurozone-greece-debt-germany.html
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[Marxism] more swill from Socialist Project

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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(i.e. Panitch and Gindin)
In this one they produce a Plan B: (mis)using the good name of
solidarity4all's networks by proposing it as a substitute for class
struggle and for taking on the state and ruling class.
The first part of the essay justifies the ex-Synapsismos wing of the
leadership's decision to seek change within the state (a la Poulantzas).
The second part proposes various small-business, coop, even privatized
business management schemes to employ some marginal numbers so as to
minimize damage from the betrayal.
Tellingly, they quote various solidarity4all activists saying they asked
for help, logistical and otherwise, to expand their network, and were
rebuffed.
Wonder how Panitch/Gindin will feel when the next time, said solidarity4all
activists push the nay-saying Syriza official aside and SEIZE the resources
they had asked for.

http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/1145.php
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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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You're booting Jim for doing class analysis?
That's fucked up.
To be precise, that's Stalinism.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 On 7/18/15 11:55 AM, James Creegan via Marxism wrote:

 I make this prediction because I think that the left-reformism you speak
 of, more than just a set of mistaken ideas, is closer to a class ideology
 based upon the position of middling layers (small business people,
 professionals of various kinds, union bureaucrats and party politicians)
 in
 capitalist society. And it is, unfortunately, these layers that are most
 prominent in the Western left today.



 Let Jim Creegan play scratch to gangrene somewhere else. I really don't
 listen to someone play-act Leon Trotsky versus James Burnham here. He is
 getting the boot.
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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list.
Unsub me.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:

 You're booting Jim for doing class analysis?
 That's fucked up.
 To be precise, that's Stalinism.


 No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to
 sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning.

 It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries
 around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend
 to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is
 only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of
 class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If
 anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the
 petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started.

 This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If
 there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place
 to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website
 subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate:

 MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive.
 There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to
 the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to
 convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of
 self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of
 the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of
 Marxist study and political experience.


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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the Drachma – Piece of Cake. Right… | naked capitalism

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Yes, I remember when all those separate currencies made the transition *TO*
the euro, how entire societies fell into chaos and barbarism, dogs were
fighting humans for flesh from rotting corpses, and how all the economists
agreed it should never have been attempted.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Turns out that Yves Smith is a Goldman-Sachs alumni like me. She agrees
 totally with my drachma automation post and put it up on Naked Capitalism.
 Lots of interesting comments there even if most are uninformed. Columbia
 University, which had a pretty good IT infrastructure for a nonprofit,
 spent a year analyzing Y2K conversion tasks and then a year testing it. And
 all that was involved for the most part was looking for program code that
 was in an mm/dd/yy format and modifying to mm/dd/.


 http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/07/convert-to-the-drachma-piece-of-cake-right.html
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[Marxism] Panitch gets some crucial things right

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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His new column, The Denouement.
http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/1143.php

1. Were Tsipras to call instead for Grexit today there might finally be a
small majority of the population who would respond positively to this. At
the least, as one very knowledgeable political scientist who has been
closely involved in Synaspismos and Syriza since the beginning assured me
last night, there would be a million people chanting Tsipras's name in
Syntagma tonight. This would obviate the no less palpable anxiety among
such people that Golden Dawn will be the beneficiary of this denouement.

2. While speculating on the (very real) dangers that could flow from a
grexit, he adds: But above all, could the ingenuity and resourcefulness
shown by the more than 400 Solidarity networks that blossomed in the course
of the crisis really be quickly enough expanded and built upon to convert
patterns of production and consumption on a broad enough scale to counter
these negative developments?
YES! Those networks - one of whose leaders the Greek Solidarity movement
recently toured in the US - are an invaluable place to begin putting
workers, pensioners, women and youth in control of the grexit and
reconstruction process.
http://www.cpdweb.org/events/Greek-solidarity-tour.shtml
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Of course we will (eliminate the stock market)! Why the fuck would you want
a stock market under socialism?
I dealt with that in my paper a couple decades ago but briefly: in the
first stage of socialism you need computers to track prices of good,
volumes of sales, etc. ALL OF WHICH REQUIRES NO MORE SOPHISTICATION THAN
THE SYSTEM CURRENTLY USED BY WALMART.
What you DON'T need are supercomputers executing microsecond-fast stock
price fluctuations.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote:

 On 7/14/15 2:33 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote:


 1. I guarantee you that 95% of the Goldman Sachs overhaul you were
 involved in was socially unnecessary.


 Ah, I see. As part of the Grexit, we will eliminate the Greek stock
 market. Brilliant.

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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Convert to the drachma–piece of cake. Right… | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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re this:
My good friend Liza Featherstone complained on Facebook this morning:
'Seriously every dude is a Greece expert now. How’d you all get so smart so
fast?' Boy, was she ever right.
The implication is that Featherstone thinks she is smart and knowledgeable
enough to know that we're all wrong, even though admitting that she herself
knows nothing about the situation. Or perhaps it's that she's smart enough
to know that we shouldn't bother to care and to learn, that what matters is
striking a smarmy rhetorical tone.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
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 http://louisproyect.org/2015/07/14/convert-to-the-drachma-piece-of-cake-right/
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Re: [Marxism] Eurozone crosses Rubicon as Portugals anti-euro Left banned from power

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Either I missed something or I'm suffering from end-of-the-workweek brain
loss.

First and most importantly, this implicit coup against Portuguese democracy
must be opposed, including by all those around the world who rallied
against the Troika's diktats in Greece.

But secondly, when did this agreement happen:

"Mr Tavares said the president has invoked the spectre of the Communists
and the Left Bloc as a “straw man” to prevent the Left taking power at all,
knowing full well that* the two parties agreed to drop their demands for
euro-exit, a withdrawal from Nato and nationalisation of the commanding
heights of the economy under a compromise deal to the forge the coalition*."
(emphasis added)

It's all the more puzzling given this earlier statement:

"In opposition to the PS's likely support for the conservatives, both Bloco
and the Communist Party have offered to discuss the possibility of forming
a majority government with the PS in order to end austerity. This would be
possible, as these three parties actually have a majority of parliament
seats between them. However, this is merely a tactical move, because both
Bloco and the Communist Party know that the conditions we would demand for
such a government of the left will be rejected by the PS.

"So this is a tactical move, but it's an important tactical move and a
correct one because it pushes the PS to clarify its position: Is it willing
to end austerity or not? It has been saying that it opposes austerity, but
this will be exposed as not true if it supports a government of the right,
which is what it will do for now.
"Our position is that there will be no government of the left because the
PS will not accept our anti-austerity conditions for such an agreement,
such as ending wage cuts, defending pensions and restructuring the debt."

http://socialistworker.org/2015/10/08/why-did-the-left-gain-in-portugal

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Ricardo Salabert via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
>  state has taken the explicit step of forbidding eurosceptic parties from
> taking office on the grounds of national interest.
>
> "After we carried out an onerous programme of financial assistance,
> entailing heavy sacrifices, it is my duty, within my constitutional powers,
> to do everything possible to prevent false signals being sent to financial
> institutions, investors and markets,” he said.>
>
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11949701/AEP-Eurozone-crosses-Rubicon-as-Portugals-anti-euro-Left-banned-from-power.html
>
> Meanwhile, today the National Assembly elected its President.
> For the first time since 1981, there were 2 candidates - one appointed by
> the Social-Democratic Party and the other by the Socialist Party.
> The Socialist candidate, Eduardo Ferro Rodrigues, was elected with 120
> votes for, 108 votes against and 2 blank votes.
>
> The Social-Democratic Party and the Democratic Social Center - Popular
> Party have 107 seats;
> The Communist Party, the Left Bloc, the Ecological Green Party and the
> Socialist Party have 122 seats;
> And the People-Animals-Nature has 1 seat.
>
> Cumprimentos,
> Ricardo Salabert
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Re: [Marxism] Qaddafi's Libya as paragon of democracy

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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bravo Clay and Louis
here's the link to the Times article which was so flagrantly misquoted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/world/africa/20libya.html?_r=0
If that doesn't work I could post the text here.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism <
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>
> Mummar Gaddafi use to have rallies in Green Square with well over a million
> supporters until I made him stop.
>
> That may be a bit of hyperbole. These are the facts: Qaddafi claimed 3
> rallies in Green Sq. on June 17, July 1 & 8 2011 at which he claimed he had
> 1.7 million supporters. After I published  Tripoli Green Square Reality
> Check
> <
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/19/996082/-Tripoli-Green-Square-Reality-Check
> >
> on July 19th showing there was no way Green Sq could hold that many people,
> and it was widely circulated by the Libyan Youth Movement among others,
> Gaddafi never made that claim again. I consider it one of my most
> significant contributions to their revolution.
>
> Naturally, all the "anti-imperialists" were promoting these rallies as
> proof of Gaddafi's popular support. I write in that:
>
> Now others reporting
> >  on
> > these pro-Qaddafi protests have estimated much lower numbers for these
> > crowds, in the range of 10,000 to 30,000. It has also been said that the
> > majority of those in attendance had some relation to Qaddafi security
> > forces, approximately 10% of the Libya population has such an
> association.
> > It threatened
> > <
> https://www.blogger.com/2011/07/behind-green-curtain-libya-today_1981.html
> >
> > if they failed to show up.
> >
>
> 2 selections from my
>
> http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2011/07/behind-green-curtain-libya-today_1981.html
>
> posted to the Free Generation Movement facebook page
> <
> http://www.facebook.com/notes/the-free-generation-movement-%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%83%D8%A9-%D8%AC%D9%8A%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B1/the-story-of-the-bread-queue/120242798070348
> >
> this morning, July 18, 2011 at 6:17am
>
> Today, at a queue for bread in Janzour, I witnessed the following.
>
> Production was slow and the queue was getting longer. The owner of the
> bread store came out, apologised and told those waiting that due to fuel
> shortage his machines were working at 50%. He urged people to just buy
> bread for ¼ dinar and then come back later for more. He said there was also
> a flour shortage so urged, again, for people to be economical.
>
> One women shouted *“it’s not your flour, its Moamers flour, who are you to
> ration it?”*
>
> The people in the queue were visibly angered by this comment and one man
> shouted *“and do you think your moamer carry the flour here on his back?”*
>
> She fell silent but immediately made a phone call.
>
> Minutes later people whispered in the man’s ear to leave as she is a well
> known revolutionary committee member and loud mouth. He disappeared into
> the side streets moments before uncountable security trucks turned up with
> armed men.
>
> The men demanded that the shop owner tell them who the *“traitor”* was. The
> shop owner said that he was just a customer and can’t remember just a
> single person from hundreds of daily customers.
>
> The security chief said to him *“Either tell us who he is, or we close this
> place down”.* The man bravely stood tall and said
>
>
>
> *“Close it, but if you want me to give you details about a man I do not
> know then you are delusional”. A symbol of defiance from a man standing in
> a queue. A symbol of nepotism by one woman who thinks she can say and do as
> she pleases because of who she knows. A symbol of intimidation by security
> forces enforcing jungle law. You cant even speak your mind in a bread
> queue, and then Saif AlGaddafi says “we will have elections”. On what
> planet do these people live?*
>
> *1.7 million rally for Qaddafi? Not as it seems! * Now we have another
> video
>  from Qaddafi's massive
> support
> rally in Tripoli on July 8th, 2011. I have already blogged about certain
> questions surrounding this march in my dairy. Now this video from
> libyaresistence  purports to
> show that many of those in attendance weren't from 

[Marxism] NUMSA backs students; good analysis, good demands

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://www.numsa.org.za/article/numsa-backs-students-demands-for-free-education/

Reminder: check regularly this daily blog:
http://www.thedailyvox.co.za/nationalshutdown-live-blog/
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[Marxism] US bombing of ISIS oil facilities

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I can't tell from this article if they've only targeted smaller facilities,
or if they can't put bigger ones out of commission, or a mixture of the two.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/us/politics/us-steps-up-its-attacks-on-isis-controlled-oil-fields-in-syria.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
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[Marxism] new production of "View from the Bridge"

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The reviewer, while he loves the production for its powerful impact,
doesn't seem to have a clue what it's about - or doesn't want to admit it.
Which is a shame, because it's an essential theme.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/theater/review-a-view-from-the-bridge-bears-witness-to-the-pain-of-fate.html?ref=todayspaper
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Re: [Marxism] Jeremy Corbyn and Syria

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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what's his facebook link? this is great, want to share

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> (Posted to FB by John Game)
>
> A reel off prompted by the justified anger many supporters of the Syrian
> revolution feel about the official positions of many on the left and in the
> Labour movement:
>
> as someone who has been an anti-Stalinist all their life I'm used to the
> fact that large sections of the left are not. For me these issues are
> connected to people not having enough confidence to fight for
> themselves-and thus putting their hopes either in particular leaders or
> particular states to do it for them. One of the truly alarming things about
> the last couple of decades has been the extent to which stalinism has
> re-invented itself-it had been believed by many that the end of the Soviet
> bloc would kill off these kinds of illusions-I think we were missing the
> point Marx once made about religion-that if you were to want to abolish it
> you'd have to abolish the conditions that give rise to the need for it-and
> the conditions that gave rise to the need amongst people to look for
> substitutes for their own agency were not abolished by the collapse of the
> Soviet Union. Hence the really shocking way in which some even look to
> Putin as some kind of a saviour-an authoritarian no better whatsoever then
> a Modi in India. But, and here's the problem, in India you'll find many on
> the left who absolutely despise Modi but have enourmous illusions in Putin
> as some kind of an 'alternative' to US hegenomy-why?-because the dominant
> forms of reformism in the global south were premissed on the idea that the
> weakening of the dominant western imperialism gave space for
> alternatives-some of this was reflected in the old ideas of the non-aligned
> movement (though its interesting that many who espouse those ideas now once
> saw the non-aligned movement as simply an illusion-as indeed in many ways
> it was). All across the world this has produced a left that's fragmented,
> an internationalism that's incoherent, and a dreadful paucity of a real
> movement of solidarity for the actually existing and on-going revolutionary
> movements we've seen over the last decade-worse then this a constant
> clamour of slander and abuse directed at those who try and raise these
> issues.
>
> I believe these arguments need to be taken on, head on, and I have no time
> at all for people who think its sectarian to raise these issues. Its vital.
> But at the same time, I think you have to understand the roots in despair -
> like all forms of counter-revolutionary ideology it thrives on feeling of
> hopelessness-there were of course plenty of sociopaths who kissed the boots
> of Stalin because they liked the thought of those boots trampling on human
> faces forever. But most kissed the boots of Stalin because they sincerely
> believed that these were the only boots that could kick Hitler. Today we
> face a more grotesque situation (what as Javaad said I once called
> Stalinism with Stalinism)-where people don't even believe (well aside from
> the truly confused or strange) that any of these regimes represent
> socialist values-but think the best they can hope for is some sort of
> 'balance' - in effect a new Congress of Vienna (a reactionary post-Napoleon
> balance drawn up by the European great powers in the 19th century) this
> time with Putin and-who else?-to ask the question is to reveal the
> ideological incoherence-perhaps General Sisi? Or those currently locking up
> and killing Trade Unionists in Tehran? Or Modi? A man who like Putin who
> knows how to deal with troublesome Muslims-perhaps these people doing a
> deal with America will lead to a better world? To ask the question is to
> reveal the bloody aburdity of it.
>
> Most people voting for Corbyn desperately want change and I'm with them.
> But I also want to argue with them about how we can get that change. But
> you can't win that argument if you line up with the dominant powers-who
> have no intention whatsoever of helping anyway and never did. I also think
> there is a difficulty with an understandable argument about priorities-I
> wholly understand the position of people who say-My priority is the Syrian
> revolution so I'll support any robber of 

[Marxism] phase transitions and dialectics

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The obit below made me wonder if anyone has written on what's in the
subject line.  (Notice that he also studied other forms of transformation.)
A quick google turns up quite a bit; anyone have particular recommendations?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/science/leo-p-kadanoff-physicist-of-phase-transitions-dies-at-78.html?ref=todayspaper
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Re: [Marxism] New Issue of Revolutionary History: Clara Zetkin: Letters and Writings

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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see also the re-issue by Haymarket of the International Press selection -
enough difference between the two to make them both essential!
http://www.haymarketbooks.org/pb/Clara-Zetkin
(and of course check out her archive at MIA)
p.s. I'm in the middle of Paul's "The New Civilization?" and loving it!

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Paul Flewers via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *
>
> New Issue of Revolutionary History: Clara Zetkin: Letters and Writings
>
> Clara Zetkin played a prominent role within the left wing of the German
> Social-Democratic Party and subsequently within the Communist Party of
> Germany
> and the Communist International, with a strong interest in the rights of
> working-class women. The latest edition of Revolutionary History, edited
> by Mike
> Jones and Ben Lewis, brings together articles and letters by Zetkin on such
> subjects as revisionism within the SPD, women's rights and feminism, the
> fight
> against fascism, and the bureaucratisation of the Communist International,
> together with scholarly articles focusing upon specific aspects of Zetkin's
> political life. This edition of Revolutionary History will bring the life
> and
> work of Clara Zetkin to the notice of today’s left-wing activists and
> historians, and help to restore her name to its rightful position within
> the
> pantheon of twentieth-century revolutionary Marxists.
>
> Articles by Clara Zetkin
>
> * The Servant Girls' Movement
> * Against the Theory and Tactics of Social Democracy
> * Guidelines for the Communist Women's Movement
> * Letters to Lenin
> * The Struggle Against Fascism
> * The Bourgeois Women’s Movement
> * Letter to the Politbureau of the Central Committee of the CPSU
> * Speech to the ECCI
> * Letters to Fanny Jezierska
> * Letter to Wilhelm Pieck
> * Opening Speech of the Reichstag as its Oldest Member, 30 August 1932
>
> Articles about Clara Zetkin
>
> * Gisela Notz, Clara Zetkin and the International Socialist Women's
> Movement
> * Ottokar Luban, Clara Zetkin's Influence on the Spartacus Group, 1918-1919
> * Günter Wernicke, Clara Zetkin's Opposition to Sidelining of Comrades in
> the
> Comintern and KPD in the Mid-1920s
> * Horst Helas, Clara Zetkin's 'Filthy Letter'
>
> Plus a big book review section
>
> Order at < www.revolutionaryhistory.co.uk >
>
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[Marxism] VfP's pro-Assad, pro-Putin call for "peace"

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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No surprise given their track record, but IMO worthy of a response by Clay
and others.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/our-work/position-statements/stand-veterans-peace-november-11/
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Re: [Marxism] Time to recall that the enemy is at home

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Once again, if comrades are not reading syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com
they have no business venturing opinions on the state of the non-Assad,
non-Daesh, non-JAN grassroots in Syria.
Peaceful demonstrations against all reactionaries - including most recently
against Russian aggression - are STILL happening, and never stopped, no
matter how small in scale.
And these are the people who will be massacred should the anticipated
Russia/Iran/Hezbollah/regime attack on Aleppo occur.
THEY NEED OUR SOLIDARITY, the first step in which is acknowledging their
existence and telling the world about them.
As a first step, everyone on this list who is on Facebook or twitter should
post links to Kafranbel banners from this month.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 1:02 AM, Lüko Willms 
wrote:

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> *
>
> Since it has become a sport on this mailing list to pinpoint people and
> powers which "join the axis of resistance", i.e. do not submit themselves
> to the imperialist politics of the world dictatorship exercised from
> Washington, it has to be recalled that the revolutionary workers movement
> has always held hight the simple truth, that our enemy is at home, is "our"
> own government and its policies.
>
> Look up Karl Liebknecht on this topic,
> >
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/liebknecht-k/works/1915/05/main-enemy-home.htm
>
> >  The main enemy of every people is in their own country!
> >
> > The main enemy of the German people is in Germany: German
> > imperialism, the German war party, German secret diplomacy. This
> > enemy at home must be fought by the German people in a political
> > struggle, cooperating with the proletariat of other countries whose
> > struggle is against their own imperialists.
> >
> > We think as one with the German people – we have nothing in common
> > with the German Tirpitzes and Falkenhayns, with the German
> > government of political oppression and social enslavement. Nothing
> > for them, everything for the German people. Everything for the
> > international proletariat, for the sake of the German proletariat and
> downtrodden humanity.
> >
> > The enemies of the working class are counting on the forgetfulness
> > of the masses – provide that that be a grave miscalculation. They
> > are betting on the forbearance of the masses – but we raise the vehement
> cry:
> >
> > How long should the gamblers of imperialism abuse the patience of
> > the people? Enough and more than enough slaughter! Down with the war
> instigators here and abroad!
>
>
> and consider also Lenin's 1916 short article on "German and non-German
> chauvinism",
> > https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/may/31.htm
> of which I allow myself to quote some paragraphs
>
> >  One of the characteristics of German chauvinism is that
> > “socialists” -- socialists in quotation marks -- talk about the
> > independence of nations, except those which are oppressed by their
> > own nation. It does not make much difference whether so directly, or
> > whether they defend, justify and shield those who say it.
> >
> > The German chauvinists (who include Parvus, the publisher of a
> > little magazine, called Die Glocke, among whose contributors are
> > Lensch, Haenisch, Grunwald all the rest of the crew of “socialist”
> > lackeys of German imperialist bourgeoisie) speak at great length and
> > very eagerly, for example, about the independence for the peoples
> > oppressed by Britain. It is not only the social-chauvinists of
> > Germany, i.e., socialists in words, chauvinists in deeds, but the
> > whole bourgeoisie press of Germany that is trumpeting with all its
> > might about the shameful, brutal and reactionary, etc., fashion in
> > which Britain rules her colonies. The German papers write about the
> > liberation movement in India with great gusto, malicious glee, delight
> and rapture.
> >
> > It is easy to see why the German Bourgeoisie is full of malicious
> > joy: it hope to improve its military position by fanning the
> > discontent in the anti-British movement India. These hopes are
> > silly, of course, because it is simply impossible seriously to
> > entertaining the influencing the life of a multi-million people, and
> > a very peculiar people at that, from outside, from afar in a foreign
> > language, particular when the influence is not systematic, but
> 

Re: [Marxism] Forum with Kagarlitsky and Canadian prof

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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in contrast, tonight's event with Patrick Bond, foremost BRICS critic:
http://thecommonsbrooklyn.org/civicrm/event/info?reset=1=12962

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Ken Hiebert via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *
>
> http://www.socialistproject.ca/leftstreamed/ls279.php
>
> Geopolitical conflict produced by NATO expansion is a product of an
> economic and social process taking place in Europe. In fact, it is the
> logic of the neoliberal model that stimulates NATO expansionism. This is
> very similar to what we saw in the late nineteenth century with the new
> wave of colonialism produced by the so-called Late Victorian Depression: to
> stabilize the system without changing it.
>
> The dream of Russian elites is to have good relations with the West. The
> elite's money is in the West, their children are at Oxford and Harvard,
> their property is in Switzerland and England. They are ready to make almost
> any concession that will not destabilize Russia itself. But the West is not
> accepting these offers. Ruling circles in the EU prefer to speak of a
> Russian threat instead of cooperation with Russia. This is all complicating
> the wider geopolitical setting around the Black Sea, in the conflicts in
> Syria and the Middle east and in Russia's relations with China and East
> Asia. These are all crucial issues for understanding the new political
> divisions between west and east shaping global politics.
>
> Moderated by Judy Deutsch. Presentations by:
>
> Boris Kagarlitsky is Coordinator of the Transnational Institute Global
> Crisis Project and Director of the Institute of Globalization and Social
> Movements (IGSO) in Moscow. [Also see Kagarlitsky's presentation in April
> 2008.]
> Sergei M. Plekhanov is Associate Professor of Political Science at York
> University and a former Deputy Director of the Institute for U.S. and
> Canadian Studies in Russia.
> Sponsored by: Centre for Social Justice, Socialist Project, Canada
> Research Chair in Comparative Politics - York University.
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[Marxism] Zibechi denounces the hypocrisy of the "new colonialists"

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://compamanuel.com/2015/10/18/zibechi-new-colonialisms-and-left-values/
A wonderful column criticizing those whose unwillingness to break with
Stalinism leaves them aping the existing forms of colonialism by supporting
Russian aggression in Syria and similar crimes.
The letter by Cesaire to Thorez which he quotes is at
http://hydrarchy.blogspot.com/2010/05/letter-to-maurice-thorez.html
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[Marxism] Qaddafi's Libya as paragon of democracy

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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In a new article at Counterpunch and elsewhere, the author makes claims for
Qaddafi-style democracy matching if not exceeding the Bolshevik experience.
I guess we all just missed it.
Anyone got handy a refutation?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-from-africas-wealthiest-democracy-under-gaddafi-to-us-nato-sponsored-terrorist-haven/5482974
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Re: [Marxism] Qaddafi's Libya as paragon of democracy

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Achcar of course has some info in his book, and googling turns up more by
him. Will check MERIP too.
What threw me (and it shouldn't have) was the explicit claims by the author
about the committees' supposed power and jurisdiction. So, as this will now
become the accepted wisdom among tankie fools, it's good you're addressing
it Louis.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Louis Proyect <l...@panix.com> wrote:

> On 10/20/15 8:52 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote:
>
>>
>> In a new article at Counterpunch and elsewhere, the author makes claims
>> for
>> Qaddafi-style democracy matching if not exceeding the Bolshevik
>> experience.
>> I guess we all just missed it.
>> Anyone got handy a refutation?
>>
>> http://www.globalresearch.ca/libya-from-africas-wealthiest-democracy-under-gaddafi-to-us-nato-sponsored-terrorist-haven/5482974
>>
>>
> I'll be writing something tomorrow.
>
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Re: [Marxism] Row over NYC Palestine Activists' Critical take on BDS

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I know the players all too well, and the BDS groups in Palestine were
entirely correct in their criticism of the "NYC SJP" statement, which is a
sectarian, ultraleft attack on the movement.
Are any or all of the former groups class struggle revolutionaries? That's
worth exploring.
But the Maoist sect behind the denunciation of BDS and the
mischaracterization of the movement's goals and leaders are narrow-minded
bullies. (I know, having faced their wrath myself.)

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:10 PM, A.R. G via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> NYC Students for Justice in Palestine, a coalition of radical anti-colonial
> Palestine solidarity organizers, just released this statement calling for a
> more critical understanding of the growing BDS movement, seeing it as a
> tool rather than an end in itself, and criticizing the increasing
> dependence of the movement to defer to bourgeois elements of so-called
> Palestinian Civil Society.
> https://nycsjp.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/the-bds-ceiling/
>
> Surprisingly there was an almost immediate response from a handful of
> initiatives in Gaza, in turn megaphoned by the Ramallah-based BDS National
> Committee, accusing the students of attacking and mischaracterizing BDS.
>
> http://www.bdsmovement.net/2015/palestinian-student-groups-in-gaza-respond-to-attacks-on-bds-by-nyc-sjp-13309
>
> The latter statement is, in my view, highly contradictory for reasons I am
> willing to elaborate on personally, but as I am not privy to the details of
> this row I'd rather just post it here for discussion. I know Louis and
> others on the left have been critical of BDS for lacking class analysis and
> being overly deferential to "international law". I think those are
> legitimate areas of criticism for a movement that has an increasingly
> liberal and bourgeois character and is largely represented by Western NGOs
> rather than the Palestinian civil society.
>
> As tensions continue to rise in occupied Palestine and others speak of a
> third intifada, I think it is time we begin to have a more critical
> discussion of exactly whom in Palestine peace activists, Marxists, and
> leftists should align themselves with and whether or not many of the
> international efforts for Palestine are being appropriately accountable.
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[Marxism] 15 years since the toppling of the Milošević regime and why the Left should celebrate it

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://www.criticatac.ro/lefteast/15-years-topling-milosevic-why-should-we-celebrate/

Right on.

Ironically the author quotes Lindsey German's article at the time
foregrounding the role of Serbian workers in the ouster of "the Butcher of
the Balkans"). Given her role in the UK's Stop Some Wars Coalition, she
probably now regrets such "demonization" of an "anti-imperialist."
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Re: [Marxism] 15 years since the toppling of the Milošević regime and why the Left should celebrate it

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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PS: Speaking of Stop Some Wars, I seem to have been blocked on Facebook
from Kevin Ovenden's page after criticizing his recent pro-Putin status
(even though I criticized him on my Timeline, not his).
I mention that here because of how dangerous it is to have an officer of
STW hail Putin - and also to request that other comrades not yet blocked
keep an eye out for more such putrid pronunciamentos by Kevin, and post
them here.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Pollack 
wrote:

>
> http://www.criticatac.ro/lefteast/15-years-topling-milosevic-why-should-we-celebrate/
>
> Right on.
>
> Ironically the author quotes Lindsey German's article at the time
> foregrounding the role of Serbian workers in the ouster of "the Butcher of
> the Balkans"). Given her role in the UK's Stop Some Wars Coalition, she
> probably now regrets such "demonization" of an "anti-imperialist."
>
>
>
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[Marxism] Fwd: Fw: Re: [ufpj-activist] CAIR: "American inaction is giving the green l ight to Russia to meddle in the Middle East."

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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See my exchange with Robert Naiman below.
He hasn't responded.
Before I post this on Facebook, does anyone know how he's been on Syria in
general?

-- Forwarded message --
From: Andrew Pollack 
Date: Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 6:21 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: [ufpj-activist] CAIR: "American inaction is giving the
green l ight to Russia to meddle in the Middle East."
To: acpolla...@gmail.com




Please note: forwarded message attached

From: "Andrew Pollack" 
To: ufpj-activ...@lists.mayfirst.org
Subject: Re: [ufpj-activist] CAIR: "American inaction is giving the green
light to Russia to meddle in the Middle East."
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 12:41:53 GMT

Perhaps it's unintended, or perhaps I'm misreading you, but the implication
of your remark, Robert, is to imply that those poor benighted Mohammedans
are too stupid or backward to organize against war.
Maybe if the gringo left weren't such ardent advocates of
Assad/Rouhani/Putin warmaking, and had shown a little solidarity with the
Syrian Revolution, then some of its component parts wouldn't HAVE to beg
Obama for help.
Again, if I've misinterpreted your comment, sorry.

-- Original Message --
From: Robert Naiman 
To: ufpj-activist 
Subject: [ufpj-activist] CAIR: "American inaction is giving the green light
to Russia to meddle in the Middle East."
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 18:30:04 -0500

Looks like we could use some peace organizing in the Muslim-American
community...

-- Forwarded message --
From: CAIR 
Date: Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM
Subject: Syrian-Americans, Muslims Meet with White House on Russian
Airstrikes | Video: Imam Johari Asks You to Join Him at CAIR's Oct. 17th
Banquet in Va.
To: nai...@justforeignpolicy.org


Having trouble viewing this email? Click here




   - *WATCH:* Imam Johari Asks You to Join Him at CAIR's Oct. 17th Banquet
   in Va.

   





*Buy you ticket TODAY at http://www.cair.com/banquet
   

   to hear Nobel Peace
   
Prize
   winner Tawakkol Karman, comedian and author Dean Obeidallah and the
   Bayyinah Institute's Omar Suleiman speak at CAIR's "Champions for Justice"
   21st Annual Fundraising Banquet on October 17th. Individual tickets cost
   $65 and a table of 10 costs $1,000. Registration begins at: 5:30 pm. We
   hope to see you there. Banquet tables for a family, business, mosque, or
   other group, can be reserved by calling 202-742-6454 <202-742-6454> or by
   emailing eve...@cair.com . No tickets will be sold at the
   door, so register TODAY at www.cair.com/banquet
   

[Marxism] background on Nobel Peace Prize winners

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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To be more specific, on the social and political dynamics which allowed the
winners to get Left help in dampening mass struggle and substituting for it
talks between bourgeois forces (secular and Islamist).

In the bourgeois media accounts, for "peace" and "stability," read
class-collaboration and demobilization.

I have to add that the role in all this of Tunisia's "broad party" - the
Popular Front - is more evidence that the strategy of forming them
everywhere and anyhow is a bankrupt one.

Articles:

* Search for Tunisia at internationalviewpoint.org; dozens and dozens of
articles on the revolution's trajectory.

* Also:
http://links.org.au/node/3217

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/34253/Anger+returns+to+the+streets+of+Tunisia,+the+birthp
lace+of+the+Arab+Spring


http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/keyword/Marxism/Revolution/17169/31-07-2013/tunisia-polit
ical-assassination-provokes-renewed-workers-struggles


http://socialistreview.org.uk/386/tunisia-revolution-balance

* And a long list of articles:
http://www.socialistproject.ca/inthenews/hottopics.php?t=6.30
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[Marxism] on Merkel's failure

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Failure in quotes because this article by Bruce Ackerman ignores what's
driving her supposedly illogical stubborness, i.e. Germany's need to a)
stop the political example Syriza is setting, and b) to maintain its own
dominant economic position - including by savaging its own working class
(see Catarina Principe on this in Jacobin and elsewhere).
By the way, notice the correct mention of Obama's motivations, i.e. his
concern to keep Greece in the Western anti-Russia orbit. (for those who
don't know me, I don't give a fig for either imperialist power, US or
Russia).
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/opinion/germanys-failure-of-vision.html?ref=todayspaper
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[Marxism] Badiou on Greece

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Talk about your world-historic events - ME agreeing with BADIOU!!!
Some great points here:
http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2111-alain-badiou-eleven-points-inspired-by-the-situation-in-greece
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[Marxism] a case of the slows

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The Guardian's live update is claiming that Tsipras will put forward a
proposal as bad or worse as anything yet offered (and one such report
sensibly predicts strikes and rallies against the proposal will result).

If true, clearly Tsipras doesn't understand that Oxi means Oxi.

I keep promising myself to go back and read more about Leon Blum looking
for parallels, but realized that brushing up on George McClellan will do
(ergo my subject line).

God I hope I'm proven wrong on all this, but in the meantime am preparing
for the worst (i.e. organizing support for predicted strikes and rallies).
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[Marxism] Obama/Guardian lie, Greeks die

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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The Guardian has revised history by referring to a landmark referendum
last Sunday in which Greek voters backed the radical leftist Syriza
government’s call for debt relief.
The referendum was of course not just about debt relief, but rather a
straight-up rejection of the multifaceted attack on Greek workers - but the
Guardian lies to buttress Obama's claim to have saved the day by getting
his IMF to ask for slightly less grotesque repayment terms, and by so doing
to save Merkel from her own shortsightedness - and to provide cover for
Tsipras's spinelessness.
See
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/09/greece-debt-crisis-athens-accepts-harsh-au
sterity-as-bailout-deal-nears
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/09/greece-debt-crisis-athens-accepts-harsh-austerity-as-bailout-deal-nears
and
http://www.nytimes.com/live/greek-debt-crisis-live-updates/growing-voices-for-greek-debt-r
elief/
http://www.nytimes.com/live/greek-debt-crisis-live-updates/growing-voices-for-greek-debt-relief/
We can be sure though that Greek workers will resist this latest attack -
and we in the US must demand that Obama keep his bloody (literally) hands
off Greece.
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Re: [Marxism] Going into industry

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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For some people it worked quite well, and some stuck it out and did (or are
still doing) for decades.
I mean for goodness' sake if we listed the jobs we've all had just to
survive, and in which we functioned as normal human beings just to get
through the day (including especially thanks to the normal camaraderie with
coworkers), then you can see how long-term patient colonizing was
possible.
I don't regret having done it in a variety of types of workplaces.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 The thing about the turn to industry was that it was dreamed up by
 professional revolutionaries/organizers who had absolutely no intention of
 turning to industry themselves.

 There was talk of this nonsense in Australia too, but I was never part of
 the group that took it seriously.

 But in the IS we had the absolute fetishization of factory sales.  Two
 Battlers sold at factory gates = 300 sold at a rally.  What stupid
 nonsense.

 comradely

 Gary

 On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
 marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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  *
 
  Gladys Scales in A Red Family: Junius, Gladys, and Barbara Scales:
 
  The [Communist] Party knew they had talented people and used their
  talents, yet many stupid things were done with people. One was a period
 of
  industrial concentration, where intellectuals and students were taken
 out
  of school and put into factory work. They were going to organize the
  workers. First of all, they stuck out like sore thumbs. You can't take an
  intellectual and put blue jeans on him and make him look like a worker.
 The
  workers didn’t particularly trust him. They weren’t really at ease and
  neglected their own talents. It was like putting a square peg into a
 round
  hole.
 
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Re: [Marxism] Paul Mason What was the point of Tsipras referendum?

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Columns like this are why I don't read Paul Mason.
I remember months ago reading something by him (don't remember the issue,
but that really doesn't matter) and saying to myself, this guy's just a
half-smart, not-too-radical commentator, why waste my time?
But it's a damned shame his self-satisfied support for the wisdom of
Tsipras can be so misleading in a crisis like this.
(If someone can convince me I'm misreading his column I'm all ears.)

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 What was the point of Tsipras referendum?
 by Paul Mason
 Channel 4 News blog, England, July 10
 http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/4131/4131

 The new Greek government proposals, published late last night are
 clearly based on those submitted by Jean Claude Juncker last Thursday,
 before the referendum.

 It’s left many Greeks frustrated,  asking: what was the point of the
 referendum? It’s left many foreign observers saying the same.

 Here are the most obvious answers:

 First, the Greek government’s hope that a referendum mandate would
 allow swift negotiations with their creditors, and relaxation of
 terms, did not materialise. Instead a renewed ultimatum materialised.
 If they can’t meet it, the ECB and EU will collapse the Greek banking
 system and throw them out of the Eurozone. Indeed, one of the main
 “achievements” of the referendum was to flush out that clear threat,
 from politicians who had never admitted it before.

 The Greek government has no mandate to leave the Euro, as the 61% vote
 No last Sunday was clearly won as a “stay in and fight” mandate.

 Secondly, the deal makes no economic sense without debt relief. The
 referendum, combined with US pressure, seems to have prompted key
 European voices, including Angela Merkel and Donald Tusk, [to] accede
 in principle to the need for debt reprofiling – which is a sneaky way
 of writing off debts.

 Thirdly, it is still redistributive on balance. Syriza can still sell
 this as a very different programme from those previously designed by
 the conservative led coalition. 29% corporation tax is one example.
 However it does make concessions on pensions and on VAT on the
 islands, which currently enjoy a discount.

 Fourth, it is the work of Euclid Tsakalatos. Tsakalatos, as I’ve been
 explaining since mid-January, is existentially committed to two
 things: Euro membership and the use of government to foster widespread
 modernisation and social change. He wants to stay in power – not lose
 it to a government of “technocrats”.

 Fifth, the deal comes with a request for a loan to make Greece’s debt
 repayments over the next three years. If someone else pays your debts
 for three years, that is a very fiscally beneficial thing, and leaves
 Greece with money to spend it did not have.

 Most importantly, this is not a done deal. If it gets through the
 Greek parliament and is then thrown back into the Greeks’ faces it
 will solidify and prepare Greek society for Grexit.

 It will most likely prompt a few resignations from Syriza, but I am
 told the Left Platform in Syriza will mainly accept it. But getting it
 through parliament is not the problem. Getting it through the EU is
 the problem – and it’s left many Greeks still predicting this is the
 last gamble before Grexit.

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Re: [Marxism] FW: [SocialistProject] Bullet: Requiem at an Empty Grave? Syriza's Momentous Day

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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A friend just posted this to another list and I am really fucking mad. I
shouldn't be, as crises like this always bring out the worst in academic
marxists; still it's hard not to fume when someone like Panitch turns the
meaning of events on their head in a way that makes the job of solidarity
activists 10 times harder by the confusion they've spread.
Plus his cute digs at Richard Seymour (naming him only by reference to
Lenin's Tomb) are just plain repulsive.

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Richard Fidler via Marxism 
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:

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 Click here to read online:
 http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/1139.php

 ~ T h e B u l l e t ~
 A Socialist Project e-bulletin ... No. 1139 ... July 12, 2015
 __

 Requiem at an Empty Grave? Syriza's Momentous Day

 Leo Panitch

 Did those who are already raising Lenin from his tomb to render quick
 judgement on Syriza's abject world-historic defeat (without saying much
 about what victory would look like or require) actually bother to read the
 rather similar plans that Syriza put forward before the referendum and that
 were consistently rejected by the EU and IMF Institutions? This rejection
 is what the referendum was about. The resounding OXI was then used by Greek
 Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras to secure the resignation of the leading
 political representative of the domestic ruling class (and former Prime
 Minister), Antonis Samaras, and to get all the party leaders with any such
 claim or ambitions to speak for that class to adopt Syriza's position on
 the need for debt restructuring and investment funds. One might even say
 that if there was a class crossover involved here it was the other way
 around, one that looks more like what Gramsci meant by a hegemonic strategy
 rather than the way it is presented from the perspective of those standing
 on Lenin's Tomb.

 The virtually same formulations in Syriza's plans that were just yesterday
 called intransigence by mainstream media in Greece and aped by the media
 abroad are now presented as capitulation in order to disguise the
 significance of this. This is not surprising but what is surprising is the
 immediate acceptance of this capitulation interpretation by so much of the
 Western radical left from whom one might have expected a rather more
 sophisticated reading and less quick rush to negative judgement. Of course,
 the latter view is shared by many on the radical left here in Greece,
 including those Syriza MPs who opposed or abstained on the vote in the
 Greek parliament. But in doing this, they only raise the question of
 whether the Antarsya strategy of Grexit (which obtained less than 1 per
 cent of the vote in January) is any more viable today than it was then.

 Deal or No Deal?

 The real situation is this, as we await the outcome of what will in fact
 be a momentous day. If there is in fact some significant debt restructuring
 and investment funds in a deal today and this is not effectively tied to
 further conditionality, this would offset many times over the four year
 $12-billion plan for fiscal surpluses in the plan just passed by the Greek
 parliament. Of course, even if this is the effective outcome of this
 weekend's final maneouvres, this will require some political sophistication
 to discern, since it will be concealed somewhat so that other European
 leaders can disguise this from their electorates, whose attitudes the
 Northern and Central European labour movements have done little or nothing
 to change. Tsipras would need to explain this well to get people to
 understand the significance of the victory he -- and they with their
 support in the referendum -- would have pulled off.

 It will not be a world historic victory, for those who like such
 language, since it will still involve tying the revival of the Greek
 economy to the fate of what remains a very much capitalist Europe, but this
 would not mean that the Syriza government would exclude itself from the
 continuing struggle to challenge and change that. On the other hand, if
 Tsipras walks away today accepting the same conditionalities as before to
 debt restructuring, and without any guaranteed investment funds on top of
 this, then it will indeed be interesting to see where Lenin 

Re: [Marxism] Leila Khaled in the Philippines

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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As Pierre Roussett has documented (see internationalviewpoint.org), the
murder threats against Walden and others were real.
Ultramaoist means they think the Philippines is a "semi-feudal,
semi-colonial" country ripe only for the "democratic revolution," led by a
top-down substitutionist guerrilla force  - this in a country whose working
class grows bigger every year. Several groups have split from the CPP after
their attempts at a democratic discussion over strategy was brutally denied.
As for taking advantage of a mass audience: one's choice of audience
reflects one's politics. But then I guess all those peace conferences
Stalin organized were the happening place to be in prior decades.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Philip Ferguson 
wrote:

> Andy, if it is OK for people fighting for liberation in the Middle East to
> get guns from imperialism (and I think it is), then it is OK for Leila
> Khaled to take advantage of a mass audience offered to her in the
> Philippines.
>
> The charges about threatening to kill Walden Bello were, afaik, dealt with
> years ago and it turned out they did no such thing, although they certainly
> attacked Bello strongly over some stuff - if I recall rightly it was dodgy
> NGO stuff.
>
> What does "ultra-Maoist" mean in the context of 2015?
>
> The NPA has - and celebrates - gay marriage in its ranks and the CPP is
> heavily involved in the gay and trans movement in the Philippines (in fact
> they lead such a movement).  Is that 'ultra-Maoist' too?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Andrew Pollack 
> wrote:
>
>> Khaled's host, the International League of People's Struggle, is run by
>> Jose Maria Sison, head of the ultra-Maoist Communist Party of the
>> Philippines, who killed many of his own members in a purge and threatened
>> such radicals as Walden Bello with the same fate.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism <
>> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>>
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Re: [Marxism] Leila Khaled in the Philippines

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Khaled's host, the International League of People's Struggle, is run by
Jose Maria Sison, head of the ultra-Maoist Communist Party of the
Philippines, who killed many of his own members in a purge and threatened
such radicals as Walden Bello with the same fate.


On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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[Marxism] Phyllis Bennis joins the "it's all the US's fault" gang

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 http://fpif.org/what-america-owes-the-refugees-pouring-into-europe/ 

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[Marxism] US weapons vs troops

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The resolution below was written by Frank Glass and Harold Isaacs .It discusses 
US military assistance in the form of "material aid." It does NOT oppose such 
aid, but rather explains the reactionary policies of the KMT and CCP that led 
to its provision. It further uses the occasion to warn Chinese workers and 
peasants that US troops could be next, and that in any case they must organize 
their armed bodies independently, INCLUDING by imposing the social reforms 
which the CCP refused to (or granted grudgingly in tiny doses). The 
implications for Syria and elsewhere should be clear. 
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/document/fi/1938-1949/ww/1941-ww01.htm 
American Intervention in ChinaResolution Adopted by the Executive Committee of 
the Fourth InternationalMarch 31, 1941 

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[Marxism] Fw: Re: [ufpj-activist] What if Americans Had Known in 2013 that U.S. rejected Syria Deal in 2012?

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In case Swanson was not yet on the list of Assad's useful idiots, see his 
chemical weapons denial below.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:36 PM, David Swanson From DavidSwanson.org 
 wrote:
Please republish and share, but only without editing and with credit and link 
to original included. Thanks!What if Americans Had Known in 2013 that U.S. 
rejected Syria Deal in 2012?By David Swansonhttp://davidswanson.org/node/4914In 
the United States it is considered fashionable to maintain a steadfast 
ignorance of rejected peace offers, and to believe that all the wars launched 
by the U.S. government are matters of "last resort." Our schools still don't 
teach that Spain wanted the matter of the Maine to go to international 
arbitration, that Japan wanted peace before Hiroshima, that the Soviet Union 
proposed peace negotiations before the Korean War, or that the U.S. sabotaged 
peace proposals for Vietnam from the Vietnamese, the Soviets, and the French. 
When a Spanish newspaper reported that Saddam Hussein had offered to leave Iraq 
before the 2003 invasion, U.S. media took little interest. When British media 
reported that the Taliban was willing to have Osama bin Laden put on trial be
 fore the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, U.S. journalists yawned. Iran's 2003 
offer to negotiate ending its nuclear energy program wasn't mentioned much 
during this year's debate over an agreement with Iran -- which was itself 
nearly rejected as an impediment to war.The Guardian reported on Tuesday that 
the former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari, 
who had been involved in negotiations in 2012, said that in 2012 Russia had 
proposed a process of peace settlement between the Syrian government and its 
opponents that would have included President Bashar al-Assad stepping down. 
But, according to Ahtisaari, the United States was so confident that Assad 
would soon be violently overthrown that it rejected the proposal.The 
catastrophic Syrian civil war since 2012 has followed U.S. adherence to actual 
U.S. policy in which peaceful compromise is usually the last resort. Does the 
U.S. government believe violence tends to produce better results? The record 
shows oth
 erwise. More likely it believes that violenc!
 e will lead to greater U.S.-control, while satisfying the war industry. The 
record on the first part of that is mixed at best.Supreme Allied Commander 
Europe of NATO from 1997 to 2000 Wesley Clark claims that in 2001, Secretary of 
War Donald Rumsfeld put out a memo proposing to take over seven countries in 
five years: Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran. The basic 
outline of this plan was confirmed by none other than former British Prime 
Minister Tony Blair, who in 2010 pinned it on former Vice President Dick 
Cheney:"Cheney wanted forcible 'regime change' in all Middle Eastern countries 
that he considered hostile to U.S. interests, according to Blair. 'He would 
have worked through the whole lot, Iraq, Syria, Iran, dealing with all their 
surrogates in the course of it  Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.,' Blair wrote. 
'In other words, he [Cheney] thought the world had to be made anew, and that 
after 11 September, it had to be done by force and with urgency. So he was for
  hard, hard power. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.'"U.S. State Department cables 
released by WikiLeaks trace U.S. efforts in Syria to undermine the government 
back to at least 2006. In 2013, the White House went public with plans to lob 
some unspecified number of missiles into Syria, which was in the midst of a 
horrible civil war already fueled in part by U.S. arms and training camps, as 
well as by wealthy U.S. allies in the region and fighters emerging from other 
U.S.-created disasters in the region.The excuse for the missiles was an alleged 
killing of civilians, including children, with chemical weapons -- a crime that 
President Barack Obama claimed to have certain proof had been committed by the 
Syrian government. Watch the videos of the dead children, the President said, 
and support that horror or support my missile strikes. Those were the only 
choices, supposedly. It wasn't a soft sell, but it wasn't a powerful or 
successful one either.The "proof" of responsibility for that use of 
 chemical weapons fell apart, and public opposition to!
  what we later learned would have been a massive bombing campaign succeeded. 
Public opposition succeeded without knowing about the rejected proposal for 
peace of 2012. But it succeeded without follow-through. No new effort was made 
for peace, and the U.S. went right ahead inching its way into the war with 
trainers and 

[Marxism] the massacre will not be hashtagged

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http://aljumhuriya.net/en/29657 

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[Marxism] a reply on "mass workers/broad" parties

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http://socialistworker.org/2015/09/17/where-do-socialists-belongI'm with Todd 
on this.

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[Marxism] Aaaargh, campism again!

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A variety of Hungarian "left" groups issued this 
statement:http://www.criticatac.ro/lefteast/hungarian-left-wing-organizations-demand-adequate-policies-for-the-regugee-crisis/
 I sent the comment below, and the authors' response was that there is no 
revolution in Syria, only a religious war. Fuck me. "Saw your statement at 
LeftEast. Great work, thanks for taking the initiative.However you're dead 
wrong when you pin the responsibility for the refugee crisis and related 
casualties solely on US and Western Europe imperialism. Mention must be made of 
Assad's responsibility for well over 90% of all civilian deaths, and of his 
(and other regional dictators) responsibility for helping imperialism dominate 
the region.Without such mention you cut yourself off from joint efforts with 
the continuing Syrian Revolution at the grassroots (see 
syriafreedomforever.wordpress.com )Andy PollackMember, MENA Solidarity 
Network-US"

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[Marxism] fronting for Stalinist counterrevolution

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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A harsh characterization, especially considering that I'm aiming it at Ian 
Birchall, a generally outstanding author - but what else would you call a 
column that completely ignores the pivotal moment in the Vietnamese Revolution: 
that moment when Ho murdered countless Trotskyists who were leading a workers' 
uprising against French colonialism and domestic capitalism. 
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/vietnam-paris-nguyen-ai-quac-le-paria-french-left-de-gaulle/
 For the real story see:https://libcom.org/library/crossfire(full text of book 
at bottom)

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[Marxism] [UCE] solidarity, not campism!

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This IV article has a great section on how campism (denial of the 
responsibility of Assad and his abettors) materially weakens the admirable 
solidarity efforts going on in Germany, cutting across ties being forged with 
the refugees:http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4239 Today's 
Times has a good article full of quotes from Eastern Europeans who don't want 
refugees coming but want to get the hell out of Eastern Europe themselves - 
quotes which reinforce the need for a movement that places demands on the 
rulers for jobs, dignity and freedom for 
all!http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/world/europe/despite-shrinking-populations-eastern-europe-resists-accepting-migrants.html?src=me
 Hints of such a broader approach are 
here:http://www.criticatac.ro/lefteast/hungarian-left-wing-organizations-demand-adequate-policies-for-the-regugee-crisis/...
 but the statement is an unfortunate example of the very campism decried above. 

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[Marxism] Baraka goes to bat again for Assad

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I just posted this on Facebook Another pro-Assad column by Ajamu Baraka. 
Michael Karadjis and Clay Claiborne can easily refute all his "facts"; I'll 
just note that Baraka has a long and sorry track-record of race-baiting anyone 
supporting the MENA revolutions. 
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/23/the-obama-two-step-on-syria/ 

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[Marxism] The Trouble with Psychological Darwinism

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By Jerry 
Fodorhttp://www.lrb.co.uk/v20/n02/jerry-fodor/the-trouble-with-psychological-darwinismThis
 isn't new - it popped up in an LRB email with a selection of past 
philosophical articles - but it's unfortunately still very necessary in the 
battle against sociobiology, evolutionary psychology, selfish-gene and other 
reductionist fantastical theories.Next time you see an article in the Science 
Times headlined something like "scientists find gene that explains predilection 
for reality-show watching!" re-read Fodor's takedown of such nonsense.PS: Then 
if you want an extended materialist, sophisticated view of evolutionary 
hierarchies and processes, get Niles Eldredge's latest, "Eternal Ephemera." 

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[Marxism] obit of bagel machine inventor/union-buster

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/business/daniel-thompson-whose-bagel-machine-altered-the-american-diet-dies-at-94.html?ref=todayspaper
 

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[Marxism] Carl Schorske

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Obit in today's Times. I think someone posted mention of his death yesterday 
but mostly with reference to his Vienna book.  His history of German Social 
Democracy is an essential source. I don't know of any other single volume that 
details so many of the debates and describes so well the actors and 
institutions involved and the political consequences.

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[Marxism] Ovenden praises Russian aggression

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... in an introductory note to a post of his on Facebook today. I forgot to 
copy the link before arriving at non-Facebook work, but it should be easy to 
find in his Timeline. (For those who don't know him, Ovenden is a former 
Galloway staffer and an officer of the Stop Some Wars coalition in the UK.) In 
contrast to his bilge, see: 
http://socialistworker.org/2015/10/05/why-is-russia-dropping-bombs-i 

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[Marxism] Fwd: Fwd: Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border | World news | The Guardian

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Below is a vile response sent by John Obrien. I've blocked him on my
personal account, but comrades on the list should know he sent this as
documentation in case he's similarly abusive to others.

-- Forwarded message --
From: John Obrien 
Date: Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 1:54 AM
Subject: RE: [Marxism] Fwd: Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border
| World news | The Guardian
To: Andrew Pollack 


Are you buying these missiles yourself - and providing as "socialist
purchased"
from the  corporate merchants of death?

Why not go to Syria and join your "comrades" you so want to support?
You seem among those who want poor U. S. youth to go invade, occupy and
kill -
sounding much like the U. S. republican party folks.  I assume you will not
go fight yourself,
also like those same republican party folks of GW Bush, Dick Cheney and the
other neo-cons.
You do sound much like a "chicken hawk" of the new U. S. republican model
form.

But since you have no shame in supporting al-Nusra, can we expect you to be
anything but a b. s. talker
and make unseemly "jokes" with the misery and death of war?  You have lost
what made you initially interested
in socialism and humanity.  Now you identify with the Raytheon Company
which manufactured these Tow missiles!

What kind of socialist would joke about and even identify with a Tow
missile?

And those two Russians dead - seem to make you "feel good", while most
people are concerned this will lead
to a wider war and more death and destruction.  But only those concerned
more about humanity and suffering,
while the merchants of death make profits and male egos show "their
manhood".  And your al-Nusra Turkmen
"comrades" can't wait to "kill more" too!

Shameful.



> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:44:02 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria
border | World news | The Guardian
> From: marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu
> To: causecollec...@msn.com

>
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>
> Guess that makes me a TOW-ist.
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Andrew Pollack 
> wrote:
>
> > Fuckin' A.
> > Those who say "the only solution in Syria is a political one" are right:
> > the politics flowing from the barrel of a TOW.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
> > marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
> >
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/turkey-shoots-down-jet-near-border-with-syria
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[Marxism] Norman Lloyd profile

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http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-magnificent-memory-of-norman-lloyd?mbid=nl_151204_Daily=34959993=8317684=OTc2MTc4ODc2NjgS1=820502578=ODIwNTAyNTc4S0

Fascinating look at actor/director/activist who knew them all.
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[Marxism] joint statement against war, repression, counterrevolution

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://al-manshour.org/node/6689
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Re: [Marxism] Norman Lloyd profile

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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p.s. In addition to being part of the Federal Theater Project, Lloyd worked
in the ILGWU's drama program - the one that created and produced "Pins and
Needles."
I first saw the latter show when around 1980 an older (and sadly
now-departed) SWP member, Jean Tussey, organized a group of us to go to a
revival of it in Cleveland (Jean, a longtime labor militant, had a feel for
culture, science and common sense way beyond that of the typical younger
SWP bureaucrat of that period).
Another reason I mention this episode: Tussey, Lloyd, and many of the
workers involved in the original "Pins and Needles," were Jewish, helping
to create a vibrant labor and arts culture here in the US, rather than
chasing some mythical past in the Middle East at the expense of the
indigenous peoples.
Who needs Zionism when you have role models like Jean Tussey?

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Andrew Pollack  wrote:

>
> http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-magnificent-memory-of-norman-lloyd?mbid=nl_151204_Daily=34959993=8317684=OTc2MTc4ODc2NjgS1=820502578=ODIwNTAyNTc4S0
>
> Fascinating look at actor/director/activist who knew them all.
>
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[Marxism] new at SENTRO

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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* 2 on the Philippines left and COP21/climate change
* solidarity statement with South Korean unions facing huge crackdown
www.sentro.org
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[Marxism] has Jacobin seen the light?

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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In his great new column on Daesh, Adam Hanieh hits the Assad regime hard -
so hard that I wonder if perhaps Bhaskar is moving quietly away from his
ban on criticism of Assad by allowing it in the context of a broader
article.
Regardless, Hanieh is always a must-read.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/12/isis-syria-iraq-war-al-qaeda-arab-spring/
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Re: [Marxism] has Jacobin seen the light?

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Great points, Clay.
Obviously I agree on the shameful, reactionary role of the pseudo-Left.
Which makes it all the more important that we support the genuine Left in
the region, no matter how small, i.e. the revolutionary socialists who have
supported every uprising from the start.
And of course that should go hand in hand with material and moral support
to the grassroots forces in the liberated areas - the LCCs, the White
Helmets, the women's and cultural projects, etc. etc.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> First, as you've probably already heard, its official ISIS terror has come
> to LA.
>
> Now to this pleasant surprise from Jacobin.
> This is an excellent piece, one of the best I've seen on ISIS.
>
> However, I think there are a couple of connections that need to be made
> that this piece missed. He says:
>
>>
>> This observation points to the undeniable fact that ISIS consciously
>> choreographs itself as an island of stability and peace amid a region of
>> chaos, war, and upheaval. This is important to understanding the pull that
>> ISIS presents to some layers of the population. In a moment of deep crisis,
>> the promise of some level of security is part of what makes ISIS attractive
>> (or, at the very least, a less-worse option).
>>
>
> and later he talks about how the Russians have been targeting non-ISIS
> areas, and of course the Assad regime has long been doing the same thing.
> But he missed the connection between these policies and Daesh's ability to
> provide "islands of stability." Is this because Daesh is so much more
> effective at organizing civil  society than Assad's opposition? Or is it
> just much more difficult to organize civil society with barrel bombs
> raining down on you. I would say that it is really the Assad regime that is
> providing these "islands of stability" not Daesh. Let Assad, and now the
> Russians treat FSA and Daesh controlled areas the same, and then lets see
> were the people go and how many are willing to shelter under ISIS rule. I
> think it every important to show how Assad collaboration has contributed to
> ISIS success.
>
> 2.) he rightfully says:
>
>>
>> Faced with growing left-wing and nationalist political movements in the
>> region, the sponsorship of Islamism was seen as an effective and disarming
>> counterweight. By the 1980s, this policy was applied most systematically
>> through US and Saudi support for Arab Islamist fighters in Afghanistan. It
>> was here that preparations for armed jihad received their first practical
>> boost.
>>
>
> If our principal "weapon" is ideology, then nobody can "disarm" the Left
> but the Left itself, and that is exactly what has happened!
>
> Yes, the imperialists have helped the Islamists position themselves to
> take advantage of the people's discontent, but would this even be possible
> had not the "Left" largely abandoned the people to them?
>
> Take the case of Syria, for example. A revolutionary situation. A people
> in revolt. The 2 local communist parties back the regime. Internationally
> the Left, including Jacobin, has either remained silent or backed the
> regime.
>
> It is far too soon to say why this San Bernardino couple turned to ISIS
> for guidance or whether the sight of the So. Cal Left marching with Assad's
> flag had anything to do with it, so I won't go there - yet. But it is safe
> to say that any young people, Muslim or not, concerned about the tragedy in
> Syria, will be disgusted by the Left and look elsewhere.
>
> The Left, including Jacobin, needs to see their own role in the rise of
> ISIS.
>
> The utopic promise of ISIS will always beat out the banal "lesser of 2
> evils" future being promoted by the opportunist Left.
>
> Clay
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
> 
>
>
>
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[Marxism] Maan News: "Palestinian families suffer crackdown as political parties stand aside"

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=769158
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[Marxism] What Trump is - and is not

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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(sorry if this is a dupe)
The always on-point and level-headed Charlie Post, countering claims that
Trump is a fascist or leading a fascist movement. As Charlie explains, such
characterizations become ammunition in the hands of labor and other
movement officials seeking support for Clinton - and thus taking energies
away from building the kind of movements that can lessen the drift of the
middle class to the far right.
The label has also already led Workers World and its friends to begin
organizing against the alleged fascist danger.
Countering - including physically - the forces that have attacked Black
Lives Matter, Planned Parenthood, Muslims and immigrants - requires knowing
who you're up against and HOW to counter them.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/10/donald-trump-extremism-boehner-shutdown-republicans-presidential-race/
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Re: [Marxism] More on Venezuela

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I would encourage comrades to read the entire Lander article.
It makes good points about the genuine grassroots organizing; about the
genuine social advances; about the need to move away from oil dependence;
and about the central state/grassroots dichotomy which hindered further
advances in those and other spheres.
Unfortunately he falls into the same trap as the autonomists: his solution
is for grassroots groups to have more independence from the central state
in order to solve economic problems - instead of advocating that those
groups BECOME the state.
(And, with reference to Louis's valid concerns about one-country
"solutions" - I would argue that such a council-based state would be in a
better position to make ALBA et al. more than just show.)

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Richard Fidler via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> For those unable to access the Real News interviews that I posted earlier
> today, here's a shorter URL: http://tinyurl.com/zuvcrxf.
>
> For some background to the economic situation in Venezuela that is behind
> the election results, this article by Jorge Martin provides some relevant
> facts, notwithstanding the rather simplistic conclusions ("expropriating
> the
> capitalist class") characteristic of his political current.
>
> For a sober and informative analysis of the over-arching dilemmas of
> Chavismo's developmental policies, this article by Edgardo Lander, a
> critical Chavista, is very useful: "Venezuela: terminal crisis of the
> rentier petro-state?," http://tinyurl.com/zhk4r69.
>
> Richard
>
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[Marxism] IMT support for Podemos

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I thought in recent months I had detected a shift in the Grant/Woodsites
away from adapting opportunistically to ruling "left" parties, for instance
their generally good commentary on Venezuela.
But then comes this new piece praising Podemos and its opportunist,
bureaucratic, anticommunist leader Pablo Iglesias.
http://www.marxist.com/general-elections-in-spain-instability-volatility-and-radicalisation.htm

Guess they learned nothing from the Syriza experience.
(If I sound bitter and sectarian it's because of the childish response they
gave to my Facebook comment criticizing Iglesias and faulting them for not
warning people against him, but instead sowing illusions.
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Re: [Marxism] Sam Charles Hamad on the STWC/Corbyn controversy

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Meanwhile Jacobin - which rejects anti-Assad columns - printed this pack of
lies and apologies for Assad/Putin/Nasrallah/Rouhani by Stop Some Wars:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/12/stop-the-war-britain-jeremy-corbyn-iraq-syria/
Wonder if Jacobin editors read about the dozens of children murdered by
Assadist forces at school yesterday? Not that they'd care...


On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> (from FB)
>
> Is there a smear campaign occurring against the Stop the War Coalition
> (StWC)? They seem to think so, but then 'smear campaigns' are part of the
> essential mythology of particular elements of the sect left - not only does
> the idea of being the subject of a smear campaign reinforce the idea that
> they're of some importance, but it also keeps the cadre committed and on
> message. It allows the various demagogues who occupy its platforms to
> pretend as if they're really shaking the Tory 'warmongers', as if they're
> on the front lines of the struggle against 'imperialism'. Any criticism of
> them or any aspect of their behaviour and politics must be suppressed lest
> it provide ammunition for 'the right'. This is the fairy tale.
>
> Another dimension of this fairy tale is the idea that 'smear campaign'
> against the StWC is actually a means for Jeremy Corbyn's opponents to
> further attack the allegedly besieged Labour Party leader. Those who look
> at criticism of the StWC in relation to its position on Syria in this
> manner are doing nothing more than providing justification for politics
> that are incompatible with the most basic leftist principles. There is no
> smear campaign against this entity as a smear campaign implies the use of
> deliberate falsehoods against a particular opponent, yet every single
> criticism of the Stop the War Coalition when it comes to Syria is true.
>
> And Jeremy Corbyn, the messiah himself, is complicit in every aspect of
> the StWC's politics, as he has explicitly and implicitly agreed with this
> entity's counter-revolutionary posture towards the Syrian revolution and
> its physical blocking of Syrians from ever having a say within its ranks.
> If the right-wing use this to attack Corbyn for their own sordid gains,
> it's his own fault. When he was 'national chair' of this organisation, he
> could've spoken out against its policy towards the Syrian revolution, such
> as its continued reproduction of the most vicious pro-Assad propaganda,
> without, if you think it deserves 'balance', ever publishing one article in
> favour of the revolution. He could've spoken out against its continued
> hosting of overtly pro-Assad and pro-war speakers, such as George Galloway,
> who is a firm supporter of Russia and Iran's intervention on behalf of
> Assad, or Tariq Ali, or Andrew Murray, or his director of communications
> Seumas Milne, or Dianne Abbott (the list goes on).
>
> He could've spoken out when they invited Mother Agnes, the pro-Assad
> fascist nun, who was employed by the regime to spread a pro-regime message
> and perpetuate absurd conspiracy theories relating to the Assad regime's
> Ghouta massacre, to an anti-war conference. He could've spoken out when
> this entity veritably no platformed anti-war but pro-revolution Syrians and
> Arabs. But he didn't. Instead he attends their fundraisers and speaks out
> in their favour.
>
> Why? Because his politics converge with their politics, which is why his
> entire case against the British government's planned air strikes against
> Daesh in Syria was framed by incoherent conservatism, as opposed to
> progressive internationalism. Who did Corbyn get in as an expert to brief
> him on Syria the morning before the air strikes? Patrick Cockburn, a man
> whose articles are always republished by the StWC, and who, far from being
> anti-war, believes the British government ought to team up with Russia,
> Iran and Assad to crush the Syrian rebels (who he smears as 'al-Qaeda' all
> the better to justify their extermination) and fight Daesh.
>
> The only smear campaign that the StWC has been involved in is the one
> they've perpetuated against the Syrian revolution and those who support it,
> right up to and including the scumbag Rees attempting to pass off pro-war
> Kurdish protesters as pro-Syrian revolutionary 

[Marxism] Has Jacobin seen the light (episode 2)?

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Jacobin has a very long interview with Gilbert Achcar, the middle, very
sizable chunk of which is about Syria, in which Achcar challenges all the
tankie myths and lies:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/12/achchar-arab-spring-tunisia-egypt-isis-isil-assad-syria-revolution/
It would be interesting to know the dynamics of the interview's
solicitation and approval.
But in any case we should share the hell out of it.
P.S. The interviewer is Nada Matta, who follows labor in the region, and
asked great questions. And the interview as a whole, taking off from his
stress on the economic and social roots of the regional uprising, and his
consistent reminder that processes like this take years or decades, is
particularly welcome against the cynics who think all is forever lost.
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[Marxism] Green Party's apologetics for Assad

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Newly relevant given the ISO's endorsement announced today in the first
article.
Love those comrades (ISO), but damned if I'll support a campist
middle-class party (Greens).

See:
http://socialistworker.org/2015/12/10/we-want-to-be-the-voice-of-struggle
and
http://www.gp.org/us_must_end_regime_change
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Re: [Marxism] Green Party's apologetics for Assad

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Doug has a new book? (I looked on amazon and don't see it)

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Louis Proyect <l...@panix.com> wrote:

> On 12/10/15 9:46 AM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote:
>
>> Love those comrades (ISO), but damned if I'll support a campist
>> middle-class party (Greens).
>>
>
> Why not? If I was in Britain, I'd support Corbyn. If I was in Venezuela, I
> would have voted for Maduro even if his position on Syria was ten times
> worse than Jill Stein's. There are multiple contradictions involved with
> the left right now and we can't make Syria a litmus test.
>
> Speaking of which, I just posted this to FB:
>
> The intense phobia, which is easy to understand, over Trump in particular
> and all the other Republican candidates as well, has the objective effect
> of strengthening the "lesser evil" logic that is already kicking in around
> the reaction against Doug Henwood's book and any other criticisms of
> Hillary Clinton. By the time that Sanders is eliminated, the pressure to
> vote for Clinton will reach a crescendo with Sanders himself beating the
> drum like a major in a Rose Bowl parade. It means marginalizing the Green
> Party and deepening the ties between the left and the Democratic Party.
> While it is tough for the left to acknowledge, Trump, Cruz, Carson et al
> are symptoms of capitalist crisis. With the Koch brothers funding every
> anti-working class initiative across the country, the Democratic Party will
> function as aspirin for someone suffering from a brain tumor.
>
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Re: [Marxism] Green Party's apologetics for Assad

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Thanks, will order ASAP
And Louis is right about litmus tests for critical support/endorsement - as
long as we are public about the critical part.

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 12/10/15 10:16 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>
>> Doug has a new book? (I looked on amazon and don't see it)
>>
>>
> http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/my-turn-by-doug-henwood/
>
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[Marxism] update on controversy over Syria

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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1. Signers for this statement and translations of it are still coming in;
it's already an extremely impressive list:

http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4322
"Let us mobilise against dictatorships, imperialist aggression and Daesh.
We reject the politics of “national security”, racism and austerity"

2. Jacobin, which has rejected anti-Assad columns, recently shared this
pack of lies from the Assadist apologists in Stop Some Wars:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/12/stop-the-war-britain-jeremy-corbyn-iraq-syria/

For background to Stop the Wars' track record, see:
http://rs21.org.uk/2015/09/10/the-syrian-revolution-and-the-crisis-of-the-anti-war-movement/

(and of course previous posts by Louis, Michael and Clay).
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greece, Venezuela and the prospects for a new left

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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I think Louis and I - even if for overlapping and not equivalent reasons -
can both appreciate Lenin's method here, in which he insists to the various
Caucasian Soviet Republics: "don't copy from us, you can go slower, you can
and must trade more with capitalist countries, you must irrigate" etc. etc.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/apr/14.htm


On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:

> On 12/28/15 11:00 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>
>> I think it's incumbent on Louis, or someone agreeing with him, to
>> explain why they think Eric Toussaint's proposals at the link are
>> impractical - and why they wouldn't be useful as transitional measures
>> (i.e. measures drawing the masses into action):
>> http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4338
>>
>
> Transitional measures? They are posed as if such measures can be taken
> without consequence. I was deeply involved with Nicaragua solidarity for
> five years or so and can attest to the fact that imperialism can utterly
> knock an economically weak state off its feet. In the 1980s Nicaragua had
> the support of the USSR and European social democracies, especially Sweden.
> Despite that support, a combination of sanctions and counter-revolutionary
> violence made the Nicaraguans cry uncle. Today Greece could not even depend
> on such support. Furthermore, imperialism could just as easily turn Golden
> Dawn into an internal contra even though it demagogically supported Grexit,
> etc.
>
> As I stated in my article, both Marx and Lenin viewed the proletarian
> revolution as a European-wide event. If the USSR, with its vast resource
> base and powerful military, could not fend off imperialism, what were the
> prospects for a socialist revolution in Greece, the bombast of small groups
> like DEA notwithstanding?
>
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Syria Solidarity UK: How can ‘Stop the War’ help stop the war in Syria?

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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See also the section on war and Syria here:
http://socialistworker.org/2016/01/06/the-view-from-a-rise-in-scotland

And NYers, see you Saturday at the protest against the siege of Madaya:
https://www.facebook.com/events/1548801398778302/
Saturday, 1 pm, Times Square, 44th and 7th, NYC


On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
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>
>
> I was delighted to accept an invitation to attend a public meeting in
> December organised by Waltham Forest Stop the War and Stand Up to Racism,
> and an invitation to speak at a Stoke on Trent protest organised by
> Staffordshire Stop the War. I am anti-war myself and I believe in engaging
> with people. I wanted to speak to the conscience of the Stop the War
> members and try to convey the voices of victims of the war in Syria. I met
> many wonderful people, and I was touched by their compassion and eagerness
> to campaign against wars. I have so much respect for Stop the War’s
> protests against the Iraq invasion in 2003. I highly appreciate their
> recent campaign to welcome refugees.
>
> I also have so much disappointment and disagreement regarding Stop the
> War’s position on Syria. I am aware that many members of Stop the War are
> perceiving the Syria war through the same lense as they saw the Iraq
> invasion in 2003, as ‘an unjust imperial war.’ This is one of the main
> reasons for the big clash between Stop the War and people supporting the
> Syrians’ struggle for freedom, dignity, and democracy. I will present my
> perspective about the Syrian revolution, which might be different to their
> perspective; it is always helpful to see the other side of the story.
> Acknowledging our differences can help us to find a common ground and to
> work together for a just cause. The Syria war is tragic and I am writing to
> the minds and hearts of peace-loving people to reflect, and to suggest
> things we can do to help.
>
> full:
> http://www.syriauk.org/2016/01/how-can-stop-war-help-stop-war-in-syria.html
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[Marxism] Amazon

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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This post was partly inspired by Luko's comment on Louis's recommendation
of a book to be ordered from Amazon, but I didn't want to misdirect the
original thread.
So anyways...
We all know the working conditions at Amazon are a horror show.
Same at Foxconn (the huge PC/iPhone/etc. manufacturer in China).
Same at Walmart.
Of course the reason each can exploit so barbarically so many so terribly
with so little (as of yet) resistance is their huge size and reach - a
reach however which also represents their objective socialization.
The question I keep coming back to and will one day write more on is how
the technical and organizational sides of that objective socialization make
them ripe for the picking - i.e. how after the Revolution each will
facilitate democratic self-management by workers in and across such huge
institutions.
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Andrew Cockburn joins the Baathist amen corner | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Thanks for the critique of Andrew Cockburn.
It's been a rough week for the truth.
* The nimrods at Common Dreams printed this appeal by VIPS (Ray McGovern
and other former spies) calling on Obama to adopt Putin's views on Syria
and on the "false flag" chemical attacks:
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/12/27/call-proof-syria-sarin-attack
* Anti-Assad, anti-Daesh Syrian journalist Naji Jerf was murdered:
https://cpj.org/2015/12/syrian-journalist-naji-jerf-shot-dead-in-gaziantep.php

The good news is that Naji's colleagues in the journalist group "Raqqa is
Being Slaughtered Silently" are just that much more determined to carry on.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> I always react with a mixture of anger and sadness when I come across the
> first article by a respected investigative journalist that is filled with
> Baathist talking points. When it comes to Patrick Cockburn, Robert Fisk and
> Seymour Hersh, I know what to expect at this point. When I spotted an
> article in the latest Harpers by Andrew Cockburn that was titled “A Special
> Relationship: The United States is teaming up with Al Qaeda, again”, I had
> a feeling that he would be the latest A-List reporter to go that route
> since the pressure on the academy and the media is most acute right now. If
> you stop and think about it, the war fever that has attached itself to
> Vladimir Putin’s adventure in Syria is not that different from what we saw
> in 2002 except in this go-round it is the Kremlin rather than the White
> House that quickens the laptop bombardier’s pulse.
>
> Since Cockburn’s article is behind a paywall, I recommend that you read it
> in your local library since a penny spent for a magazine that costs $6.99
> to read this crappy article is a penny ill-spent.
>
> full:
> http://louisproyect.org/2015/12/29/andrew-cockburn-joins-the-baathist-amen-corner/
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Re: [Marxism] Amazon

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Google Amazon strike and many mainstream articles come up about December
strikes the last few years.
Also this detailed overview
http://libcom.org/blog/welcome-jungle-working-struggling-amazon-warehouses-20122015

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Einde O'Callaghan via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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> *****
>
> On 07.01.2016 14:55, Andrew Pollack via Marxism wrote:
>
>> This post was partly inspired by Luko's comment on Louis's recommendation
>> of a book to be ordered from Amazon, but I didn't want to misdirect the
>> original thread.
>> So anyways...
>> We all know the working conditions at Amazon are a horror show.
>> Same at Foxconn (the huge PC/iPhone/etc. manufacturer in China).
>> Same at Walmart.
>> Of course the reason each can exploit so barbarically so many so terribly
>> with so little (as of yet) resistance is their huge size and reach - a
>> reach however which also represents their objective socialization.
>> The question I keep coming back to and will one day write more on is how
>> the technical and organizational sides of that objective socialization
>> make
>> them ripe for the picking - i.e. how after the Revolution each will
>> facilitate democratic self-management by workers in and across such huge
>> institutions.
>>
> For those of us living in Germany there are particular reasons for
> boycotting Amazon. Here there is an ongoing dispute between Amazon and the
> Amazon workers' union ver.di to win a proper contract and ver.di has called
> on people to boycott Amazon as a token of solidarity.
>
> Einde O'Callaghan
>
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Re: [Marxism] About Amazon

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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Excellent piece. More proof that Amazon is objective socialization on
steroids - and therefore ripe for the plucking once workers' struggles,
especially by Amazon workers, pose the question of putting its technical
and organizational advances in our hands.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 8:14 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
> Amazon - the global digital East India Company of the 21st Century?:
>
> https://rdln.wordpress.com/2014/10/18/amazon-the-global-digital-east-india-company-of-the-21st-century/
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[Marxism] Hersch's latest lunacy

[Andrew Pollack via Marxism]

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http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military
Clay and Michael, give it a go
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