Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Personal responsibility is the other name of the capitalist state refusal to assume its own responsibilities. Just take a look at the photos here: https://contropiano.org/news/politica-news/2020/03/19/milano-lombardia-almeno-non-prendeteci-per-il-culo-0125521 JA Στις 20/3/20 7:04 μ.μ., ο wytheholt--- via Marxism έγραψε: A Chinese visitor to northern Italy noted best why the virus has spread so widely in Italy -- she was astounded that the Italians she saw were refusing to practice social distancing, even in the depths of their visitation by the pandemic. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
ng the cause of death. In > Italy all > > who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a > > result of > > the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease. > > > > > > > > Chris Slee > > > > From: Marxism > mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu > on behalf of John > > Reimann via Marxism > mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > > > Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 10:56:34 AM > > To: Chris Slee > mailto:chris_w_s...@hotmail.com > > > Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com > > mailto:1999wild...@gmail.com > > > Subject: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates > > > > > > > > POSTING RULES & NOTES > > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > > * > > > > > > > > I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to > the site > > below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in > > Italy, > > while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of > > that > > difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus > > having > > reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does > > anybody > > have any idea how to explain it? > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries > > > > > > > > Subject: Digest Footer _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm To change your settings: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu//listinfo/marxism > End of Marxism Digest, Vol 197, Issue 43 _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/wytheholt%40cox.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * *Chris Slee *I, in my view - right about those co-factors mentioned. (I have not read the Telegraph version). Another point is that there was a large population in the factories in Italy. The clothing industry has seen a major shift. Now Chinese owned conglomerates apparently bring to North Italy a large migrant population. (Sorry - it was read in a German paper on th road, and I forget source). So all sorts of issues on top of *population susceptibility* (age, co-factors smoking, air pollution). These remain the main drivers. But other modifying factors, ones that will likely come into play will likely also include obesity - and other general markers of ill health. ThIs is why the burden may be quite high in the USA (Unfortunately we can only wait & see). However, there are other issues too. But in addition - the Italians were slow to start contact tracing & isolation. That allowed spread and reservoirs In some contrast to Germany. As far as Germany is concerned: The Robert Koch Institute that developed the WHO approved test - was very vigilant and active from the outset. It started a very clear public understanding early on. And rapid isolation of patients - the first from a contact with a Chinese businesswoman in Munich visiting a factory. They from that published an early paper in NEJM, showing that the transmission was by an *asymptomatic* person. ThIs was hugely controversial then, but it is apparently true - and an important vector. *By the bye: * All bourgeois politicians are essentially cut from the same cloth. Yet *there are* differences. (we see evident differences between communists on this list... I would venture to say. Why is it any different?). Did anyone see the broadcast of *Angela Merkel* a few days ago? [Find at AZD or Der Spiegel - it is not dubbed though]. It was evidently sincere, kind and very straightforward. I have *never* heard a bourgeois politician with a sincerity, in an address to the nation - thank: "The cashiers at supermarkets and the workers who fill the shelves - Thank you". Hari Kumar > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 02:08:03 + > From: Chris Slee > To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition > > Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Marxism] > Message-ID: > < > sl2p216mb0490d23449b2e799bf7ddc7ec4...@sl2p216mb0490.korp216.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > An article by Sarah Newey in the Telegraph cites several factors, > including high rates of air pollution in northern Italy, high rates of > smoking, and the high proportion of old people (Italy has the second oldest > population in the world, and 87 percent of deaths are patients over 70 > years old). > > Staffing levels in hospitals are inadequate. > > But there is also an issue in recording the cause of death. In Italy all > who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a result of > the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease. > > Chris Slee > > From: Marxism on behalf of John > Reimann via Marxism > Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 10:56:34 AM > To: Chris Slee > Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> > Subject: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates > > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to the site > below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in Italy, > while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of that > difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus having > reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does anybody > have any idea how to explain it? > > > https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries > > > -- > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > To change your settings: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu//listinfo/marxism >
Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is very true. One of our comrades with medical background drew attention to this in a recently published article: https://www.thecommunists.net/worldwide/global/no-most-likely-it-is-not-covid-19-that-is-going-to-kill-you/ Bloomberg reports: "More than 99 per cent of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country’s national health authority." (https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3075851/coronavirus-italy-says-99-people-who-died-had-other-illnesses) <https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3075851/coronavirus-italy-says-99-people-who-died-had-other-illnesses> Am 20.03.2020 um 03:08 schrieb Chris Slee via Marxism: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * An article by Sarah Newey in the Telegraph cites several factors, including high rates of air pollution in northern Italy, high rates of smoking, and the high proportion of old people (Italy has the second oldest population in the world, and 87 percent of deaths are patients over 70 years old). Staffing levels in hospitals are inadequate. But there is also an issue in recording the cause of death. In Italy all who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a result of the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease. Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of John Reimann via Marxism Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 10:56:34 AM To: Chris Slee Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> Subject: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to the site below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in Italy, while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of that difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus having reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does anybody have any idea how to explain it? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries -- *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 -- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * An article by Sarah Newey in the Telegraph cites several factors, including high rates of air pollution in northern Italy, high rates of smoking, and the high proportion of old people (Italy has the second oldest population in the world, and 87 percent of deaths are patients over 70 years old). Staffing levels in hospitals are inadequate. But there is also an issue in recording the cause of death. In Italy all who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a result of the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease. Chris Slee From: Marxism on behalf of John Reimann via Marxism Sent: Friday, 20 March 2020 10:56:34 AM To: Chris Slee Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com> Subject: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to the site below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in Italy, while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of that difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus having reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does anybody have any idea how to explain it? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries -- *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/chris_w_slee%40hotmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A major issue in Italy is the overwhelming of the health care system and doctors having to choose who to give required care to. Did Germany start testing and social distancing early to keep the number of cases to be under the available resources in the hospitals? Tristan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I was just checking the latest mortality statistics. According to the site below, the mortality rate of those counted is a massive 8.3% in Italy, while it's a minuscule 0.28% in Germany. Presumably a large part of that difference is due to Italy having missed thousands of cases, thus having reduced the total number. But that massive of a difference? Does anybody have any idea how to explain it? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR2kuIKZC6pBYubhUdS_M-Rsp3OOwZ9b0mHCzgLD-dTr64gAhBMR-vI34ss#countries -- *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black Jacobins" by C. L. R. James Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
