Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So, we see below that SYRIZA, in order to gain an absolute majority in the Greek Parliament, allied with the far right Independent Greeks party, ANEL, and, for some as yet unknown reason, chose to select Panos Kamenos, ANELs’ leading member, as the cabinet member in charge of the Greek military. JA writes below “He will have no problem to deal with and be personally accepted by the army officers, including the many golden dawnites among them.” For those unfamiliar with Golden Dawn, this is from Wikipedia: “Scholars and media have described it as neo-Nazi and fascist, though the group rejects these labels. Members have expressed admiration of the former Greek dictator Ioannis Metaxas of the 4th of August Regime (1936–1941). They have also made use of Nazi symbolism, and have praised figures of Nazi Germany in the past. According to academic sources, the group is racist and xenophobic, while the party’s leader has openly identified it as nationalist and racist.” Further, JA writes below about the new Defense Minister chosen by SYRIZA to be in charge of the Greek military: “A hard core nationalist, with his own political vision: a kind of.. permanent Bonapartistic governance!!!” For those unfamiliar with Bonapartism, this is from Dictionary.com: “a political system resembling the rules of the Bonapartes, esp Napoleon I and Napoleon III: centralized government by a military dictator, who enjoys popular support given expression in plebiscites” To sum up, SYRIZA has chosen as the cabinet members heading the Greek Army a politician who “will have no problem to deal with and be personally accepted by the army officers, including the many golden dawnites [neo-Nazis] among them.” And who is for “centralized government by a military dictator.” This choice by SYRIZA, as yet unexplained, brings to mind a ship captain whose vessel was taking on water in a storm and in danger of sinking. The captain ordered the crew to drill holes in the bottom of the ship to let the water out. -Original Message- From: ioannis aposperites aposperi...@gmail.com Sent: Jan 28, 2015 3:11 AM To: Thomas thomasfbar...@earthlink.net, Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber Well Panos Kamenos is the new head of the cabinet of National Defense. A right wing clown. A short *ridiculum* vitae : Born in 1965 son of Elias BigBigMoney Kamenos he started his political career at New Democracy till 2011 when he refused support to Papademos government, left Samaras and founded the Independend greeks party. A hard core nationalist, with his own political vision: a kind of.. permanent Bonapartistic governance!!! (don't ask me more about) and an homophobic. He will have no problem to deal with and be personally accepted by the army officers, including the many golden dawnites among them. JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Well Panos Kamenos is the new head of the cabinet of National Defense. A right wing clown. A short *ridiculum* vitae : Born in 1965 son of Elias BigBigMoney Kamenos he started his political career at New Democracy till 2011 when he refused support to Papademos government, left Samaras and founded the Independend greeks party. Author of a book entitled terrorism, theory and praxis where he had proven that the 17November organization was nothing but a handful of PASOK ministers! His name has been involved, among many other things, into a case of illegal enrichment with fancy luxury yachts and offshore companies and even into a case of a tycoon's kidnapping. A hard core nationalist, with his own political vision: a kind of.. permanent Bonapartistic governance!!! (don't ask me more about) and an homophobic. He will have no problem to deal with and be personally accepted by the army officers, including the many golden dawnites among them. JA On 28/01/2015 01:15 πμ, Thomas wrote: This is welcome news. Who has been selected as the cabinet member in charge of the Greek military, and what are his or her politics? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Thomas wrote: Allende’s political party, living in some silly fantasy world, didn’t wish to offend the generals in command and made no effort to organize support inside the Army. Neither did most of the self-styled revolutionaries in the three years they had to organize inside the Army before their end came. Well this is bullshit as well. Anyone who has read the history knows the MIR organized inside the ranks of the military. Of course it was too little, too late, and the sympathetic junior officers were quickly weeded out. Greg _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is welcome news. For English speaking comrades, more about 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS' maybe found at: http://nkapatras.blogspot.com/2010/07/dikto-spartakos-network-of-conscripts.html Is there any indication that SYRIZA, in whole or in part, is conscious of the risks of military intervention by the Greek general staff against movement from below for social liberation, and is preparing accordingly for that possiblity? Who has been selected as the cabinet member in charge of the Greek military, and what are his or her politics? Please pass along warmest solidarity greetings to 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS' from the Military Project, USA: http://www.militaryproject.org -Original Message- From: ioannis aposperites via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 27, 2015 5:25 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 27/01/2015 09:24 μμ, Thomas via Marxism wrote: There have been no reports, so far, or even hints of efforts by SYRIZA or anybody else on the left to organize among rank and file soldiers. This is not true. Spartacus soldier's network is precisely organizing rank and file soldiers since 1992: 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS', the network of the conscripts What is the Soldiers-Network 'Diktio Spartakos'? . Diktyo Spartakos is the backbone of the antiwar, antinationalist and antimilitary movement. more: http://diktiospartakos.blogspot.gr/ _ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Interesting analysis of the high-stakes poker game about to unfold. http://crookedtimber.org/2015/01/25/greek-games-and-scenarios/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * [“There is no close historical precedent in Europe for a SYRIZA victory--although there are some parallels with the 1970 election of a socialist government led by Salvador Allende in Chile.” Lee Sustar, in Socialist Worker newspaper, January 20, 2015] It may be useful to recall that the Allende regime, an effort to implement some superficial reforms of capitalism, without threatening to get rid of the dominant class of capitalists who ruled the Chilean nation, was exterminated three years later by the Chilean general staff. The reformer Allende was executed. He was replaced by Gen. Augusto Pinochet, whose regime killed, tortured, and exiled tens of thousands of Chileans. Allende’s political party, living in some silly fantasy world, didn’t wish to offend the generals in command and made no effort to organize support inside the Army. Neither did most of the self-styled revolutionaries in the three years they had to organize inside the Army before their end came. For their failure, the penalty was death. Will the Greek generals, forever and always famously loyal to the Greek capitalist elite, tolerate a left regime in Greece, even if its program now is an effort to implement some reforms of capitalism, without threatening to get rid of the dominant class of capitalists and their generals who rule the nation? What will they do when tens of thousands of Greeks, who now believe the SYRIZA election victory means their social liberation, take matters into their own hands, begin to act for themselves from below, and move against their ruling class of tormentors and oppressors far father and faster than SYRIZA parliamentary politicians have any intention of going? Care to take a bet? Όποιος γίνεται πρόβατο τον τρώει ο λύκος! There have been no reports, so far, or even hints of efforts by SYRIZA or anybody else on the left to organize among rank and file soldiers. If not, it will be unnecessary to provide blindfolds should the Greek generals seize power and order military executioners to work. The blindfolds are already in place. -Original Message- From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 27, 2015 10:10 AM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber Interesting analysis of the high-stakes poker game about to unfold. http://crookedtimber.org/2015/01/25/greek-games-and-scenarios/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * i'd like to propose a slight modification that doesn't alter the thrust of your argument. allende took his own life in exchange for a promise from the coup not to harm his cabinet. this is made clear in guzman's film the battle of chile. the effect and resulting horror is the same. i'm sure we all anticipate a world battle centering around syriza's success. part of that battle will be expanding credibility outside greece with those who today are ignorant of certain facts. i suggest that being particular about allende's death is part of that credibility. - Original Message - From: Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 11:24:53 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * [“There is no close historical precedent in Europe for a SYRIZA victory--although there are some parallels with the 1970 election of a socialist government led by Salvador Allende in Chile.” Lee Sustar, in Socialist Worker newspaper, January 20, 2015] It may be useful to recall that the Allende regime, an effort to implement some superficial reforms of capitalism, without threatening to get rid of the dominant class of capitalists who ruled the Chilean nation, was exterminated three years later by the Chilean general staff. The reformer Allende was executed. He was replaced by Gen. Augusto Pinochet, whose regime killed, tortured, and exiled tens of thousands of Chileans. Allende’s political party, living in some silly fantasy world, didn’t wish to offend the generals in command and made no effort to organize support inside the Army. Neither did most of the self-styled revolutionaries in the three years they had to organize inside the Army before their end came. For their failure, the penalty was death. Will the Greek generals, forever and always famously loyal to the Greek capitalist elite, tolerate a left regime in Greece, even if its program now is an effort to implement some reforms of capitalism, without threatening to get rid of the dominant class of capitalists and their generals who rule the nation? What will they do when tens of thousands of Greeks, who now believe the SYRIZA election victory means their social liberation, take matters into their own hands, begin to act for themselves from below, and move against their ruling class of tormentors and oppressors far father and faster than SYRIZA parliamentary politicians have any intention of going? Care to take a bet? Όποιος γίνεται πρόβατο τον τρώει ο λύκος! There have been no reports, so far, or even hints of efforts by SYRIZA or anybody else on the left to organize among rank and file soldiers. If not, it will be unnecessary to provide blindfolds should the Greek generals seize power and order military executioners to work. The blindfolds are already in place. -Original Message- From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 27, 2015 10:10 AM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber Interesting analysis of the high-stakes poker game about to unfold. http://crookedtimber.org/2015/01/25/greek-games-and-scenarios/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/27/15 5:25 PM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote: This is not true. Spartacus soldier's network is precisely organizing rank and file soldiers since 1992: 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS', the network of the conscripts What is the Soldiers-Network 'Diktio Spartakos'? Interesting how the global reach of the Internet helps us understand our tasks as Marxists. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * -Original Message- From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jan 27, 2015 5:41 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Greek games and scenarios — Crooked Timber POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Yes! On 1/27/15 5:25 PM, ioannis aposperites via Marxism wrote: This is not true. Spartacus soldier's network is precisely organizing rank and file soldiers since 1992: 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS', the network of the conscripts What is the Soldiers-Network 'Diktio Spartakos'? Interesting how the global reach of the Internet helps us understand our tasks as Marxists. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
