Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Oct 5, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://louisproyect.org/2016/10/05/getting-gaddafi-wrong/ 
> 


The original Countercurrents article is here: 
http://www.countercurrents.org/chengu120113.htm

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Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 10/5/16 8:51 PM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism wrote:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/05/the-dreadful-chronology-of-gaddafis-murder/




Two things. Comrades have to remember to clip extraneous text.

The other thing is that this article cited by Andrew is completely 
idiotic as I pointed out in my blog today. The author, who just copied 
and pasted a bunch of pro-Gaddafi articles, was stupid enough to cite 
one that cited in turn a NY Times article supposedly supporting the idea 
that Libya was a great democracy. Except that the NYT article said 
exactly the opposite.


https://louisproyect.org/2016/10/05/getting-gaddafi-wrong/
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Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/05/the-dreadful-chronology-of-gaddafis-murder/

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> In this case Mafiba is wrong and I am right:
>
> http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2011/08/helter-skelter-
> qaddafi-african-adventure_504.html
>
> BLACK PEOPLE WILL PREVAIL IN THE WORLD
>> The latest age of slavery has been the enslavement of Blacks by White
>> people. The memory of this age will persist in the thinking of Black people
>> until they have vindicated themselves.
>> This tragic and historic event, the resulting bitter feeling, and the
>> yearning for the vindication of a whole race, constitute a psychological
>> motivation of Black people to vengeance and triumph that cannot be
>> disregarded.
>
>
> from Qaddafi's Green Book, p 29. And how does Qaddafi expect that black
> people will achieve that vindication?
>
> Black people are now in a very backward social situation, but such
>> backwardness works to bring about their numerical superiority because their
>> low standard of living has shielded them from methods of birth control and
>> family planning. Also, their old social traditions place no limit on
>> marriages, leading to their accelerated growth. The population of other
>> races has decreased because of birth control, restrictions on marriage, and
>> constant occupation in work, unlike the Blacks, who tend to be less
>> obsessive about work in a climate which is continuously hot.
>
>
> from Qaddafi's Green Book, p 30. So we will do it through shear forces of
> numbers, by the explosive population growth of "starving and ignorant
> Africans."
>
> From his 33 page 'book' that even today, he hands out wherever he goes,
> it's easy to see that Mummar Qaddafi promotes a lot of the standard racist
> mythology that black people are lazy and promiscuous. He also uses the
> spectra of increasing hordes of blacks looking for vengeance to create a
> climate of fear, another standard racist ploy. As we will see, racism and
> the creation of discord between Africans and Arabs has been one of the keys
> to his 42 year rule. Another is his cynical and self-serving manipulation
> of contradictions among the people in sub-Saharan Africa.
> > Qaddafi and African Immigrants
> >
> > Last August, Qaddafi attempted to use European fear of unchecked waves
> of African immigrants to extort money from the Europe, telling them the EU
> should pay Libya at least 5bn euros (£4bn; $6.3bn) a year to stop illegal
> African immigration and avoid a "black Europe".
> >
> > "Tomorrow Europe might no longer be European, and even black, as there
> are millions who want to come in," said Col Gaddafi, quoted by the AFP news
> agency
> >
> > "We don't know what will happen, what will be the reaction of the white
> and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant
> Africans," Col Gaddafi said.
> >
> > "We don't know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or
> if it will be destroyed, as happened with the barbarian invasions."
> >
> > When it comes to immigrant policy, Qaddafi is on the same page as Anders
> Behring Breivik and other violent neo-fascists that are troubling Europe.
> For much of the past decade, Qaddafi has been working withwell known
> racist, Silvio Berelusoni, the Italian PM, to turn Libya into the cork that
> keeps African immigrants bottled up. In September 2004 Human Rights Watch
> wrote:
> >
> > Libya’s recent immigration “reforms,” introduced by Colonel Muammar
> Gadaffi apparently after overtures from Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi,
> resemble a catalogue of human rights abuses against migrants and
> asylum-seekers. African internees and migrants in Libya are being detained
> in what one MEP has described as “catastrophic conditions.” And Libya
> continues forcibly to deport Eritrean refugees to Eritrea, where they face
> arrest, illegal detention and torture. If Libya is called on to run EU
> processing camps, we can surely expect more of the same.
> >
> > Last December, HRW wrote about Libya in their world report on abuse and
> detentions at borders:
> >
> > Since May 2009, Italy has joined forces with Libya to patrol the waters
> from the coast of Libya to Italy’s Mediterranean territories, principally
> the island of Lampedusa. Libya in 2010 operated patrol boats provided by
> Italy with Italian personnel on board to interdict boat migrants on the
> high seas and in Libyan waters and return them summarily to Libya with no
> screening to identify refugees, the sick or injured, pregnant women,
> unaccompanied children, victims of trafficking, or victims of violence
> against women. All 

Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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This is a speech from long before that took place. He was saying such
things as soon as he was able to.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:59 PM, MM  wrote:

>
> On Oct 5, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
> But what does Madiba know in comparison to Clay?
>
>
> If you knew anything about Mandela’s final years, I doubt you’d be
> inclined to make him the focus of your fallacious appeal to authority. This
> is from about a year after that speech:
>
> "Mandela is said by those close to him to be suffering from a form of
> senile dementia, which doctors say is common in the very old. He gets
> confused and is easily upset and agitated. Importantly, for a man who was
> obsessed with the news, his family and the military now largely protect him
> from the details of everyday life."
>
> From here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/26/world/africa/south-africa-
> mandela-importance/
>
> And before you resort to imagining a quick descent over the course of
> 2011, it is pretty well known that he was fading (and sheltered) long
> before then.
>



-- 
Best regards,

Andrew Stewart
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Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Oct 5, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> But what does Madiba know in comparison to Clay?


If you knew anything about Mandela’s final years, I doubt you’d be inclined to 
make him the focus of your fallacious appeal to authority. This is from about a 
year after that speech:

"Mandela is said by those close to him to be suffering from a form of senile 
dementia, which doctors say is common in the very old. He gets confused and is 
easily upset and agitated. Importantly, for a man who was obsessed with the 
news, his family and the military now largely protect him from the details of 
everyday life."

From here: 
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/26/world/africa/south-africa-mandela-importance/

And before you resort to imagining a quick descent over the course of 2011, it 
is pretty well known that he was fading (and sheltered) long before then.
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Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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God forbid someone show support for a government of which Nelson Mandela
said

“I have also invited Brother Leader Gaddafi to this country [South Africa].
And I do that because our moral authority dictates that we should not
abandon those who helped us in the darkest hour in the history of this
country. Not only did they [Libya] support us in return, they gave us the
resources for us to conduct the struggle, and to win. And those South
Africans who have berated me, for being loyal to our friends, literally
they can go and throw themselves into a pool.”


http://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/we-wont-turn-our-back-on-gaddafi--nelson-mandela

But what does Madiba know in comparison to Clay?

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Clay Claiborne  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
>> https://rimediacoop.org/2016/09/26/draitser-stewart-clinton-libya/
>>
>>
>>
> Its a sad day when I see some of the most extreme CT supports for the
> fascist Gaddafi regime:
>
> In brief, we know from the emails that Clinton’s longtime aide and press
>> operative Sidney Blumenthal emailed her multiple times about new
>> developments within Libya regarding a new Golden Dinar currency that
>> Muammar al Gaddafi was developing. Backed with the accumulated wealth of
>> the Libyan state from its nationalized oil resources as well as large
>> stores of gold and silver, the Golden Dinar was intended as a pan-African
>> currency that would pose a serious threat to the American dollar, the EU
>> euro, and the French franc.
>
>
> And some of the most chauvinist attacks on the Libyan thuwar:
>
>> What emerged in Libya as the US-backed rebels began to take control was
>> simply a pogrom. Black Africans were lynched by these rebel Islamists with
>> a viciousness and systemic nature that goes hand-in-hand with their brand
>> of extremism, an ideology that embraces racism, homophobia, and sexism
>> backed by American ally Saudi Arabia.
>>
>> In other words, Clinton was aligning herself with the very deplorables
>> she now pigeonholes as followers of her opponent.
>>
>
> Recycled on this list. Louis may embrace his new friends but I stand by my
> defense of the Libyan revolution. This is all trash I debunked years ago.
>
> http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/01/my-libyan-diaries_786.html
>
> Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism
> worldwide. In my next blog post I will show how fascist Trump supporters
> are warming up to Jill.
>
>
> Clay Claiborne, Director
> Vietnam: American Holocaust 
> Linux Beach Productions
> Venice, CA 90291
> (310) 581-1536
>
> Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
>



-- 
Best regards,

Andrew Stewart
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Re: [Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

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On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Andrew Stewart via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

> https://rimediacoop.org/2016/09/26/draitser-stewart-clinton-libya/
>
>
>
Its a sad day when I see some of the most extreme CT supports for the
fascist Gaddafi regime:

In brief, we know from the emails that Clinton’s longtime aide and press
> operative Sidney Blumenthal emailed her multiple times about new
> developments within Libya regarding a new Golden Dinar currency that
> Muammar al Gaddafi was developing. Backed with the accumulated wealth of
> the Libyan state from its nationalized oil resources as well as large
> stores of gold and silver, the Golden Dinar was intended as a pan-African
> currency that would pose a serious threat to the American dollar, the EU
> euro, and the French franc.


And some of the most chauvinist attacks on the Libyan thuwar:

> What emerged in Libya as the US-backed rebels began to take control was
> simply a pogrom. Black Africans were lynched by these rebel Islamists with
> a viciousness and systemic nature that goes hand-in-hand with their brand
> of extremism, an ideology that embraces racism, homophobia, and sexism
> backed by American ally Saudi Arabia.
>
> In other words, Clinton was aligning herself with the very deplorables she
> now pigeonholes as followers of her opponent.
>

Recycled on this list. Louis may embrace his new friends but I stand by my
defense of the Libyan revolution. This is all trash I debunked years ago.

http://claysbeach.blogspot.com//2013/01/my-libyan-diaries_786.html

Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism
worldwide. In my next blog post I will show how fascist Trump supporters
are warming up to Jill.


Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
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[Marxism] The events in relation to Benghazi and Syria explained

[Andrew Stewart via Marxism]

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https://rimediacoop.org/2016/09/26/draitser-stewart-clinton-libya/

-- 
Best regards,

Andrew Stewart
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