[Marxism] What's up with the working class (the NZ example)

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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Unfortunately, not a lot in much of the First World.

In NZ, however, it is particularly bad.  The working class prefers to burst
into tears rather than rebellion when faced with workplace closures etc.

Wages have been stagnant for years and years - probably a generation by now
- and yet worers by and large accept this as 'the new normal'.

Why is this?

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/whats-up-with-the-working-class-in-new-zealand/
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[Marxism] What's up with the working class in New Zealand

[Philip Ferguson via Marxism]

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In New Zealand, there was a big workers' upsurge in the early 1990s, but
since then signs of class struggle are more rare than spottings of kiwis in
the wild.

What's up?

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2017/08/27/whats-up-with-the-working-class-in-new-zealand/
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Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?

[Thomas via Marxism]

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Donary Crunk for President?

No thanks.

T


-Original Message-
>From: Mark Lause via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu>
>Sent: Oct 1, 2016 10:19 AM
>To: Thomas F Barton <thomasfbar...@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?
>
>Yes, this is primarily a Democratic Party tactical choice.  Look at the
>bumper stickers, buttons, etc. or how she is discussed in the media by her
>supporters.  (You don't see much "Vote for Donnie.")  The ad people would
>say that "Hillary" tends to humanize her and make her grandmotherly.  It
>further emphasizes gender and consolidates the most ardent of her core
>constituency--women who think that her election will automatically be good
>for women because she is one.  (A twist on the only plausible argument
>supporters made for Obama.)
>
>Then, too, if someone who doesn't support her calls her "Hillary," they can
>ask why they call her "Hillary" and the Republican candidate "Trump."
>
>On the other hand, there can be some confusion with just "Clinton,"
>especially if you are discussing a matter of record.   That's because of
>Bill, of course.  This is a problem with decadent dynastic politics.
>
>ML
>_


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Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?

[Clay Claiborne via Marxism]

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Actually, as Hillary tells it, becoming a Clinton was a Democratic tactical
choice. She didn't become a Clinton by marrying Bill, she kept her last
name Rodham, even when Bill got elected gov. the 1st time, but he was
turned out after only 2 years. Main voter complaint was Hillary kept her
last name, so she changed it and he was elected again and again. So maybe
if the country was less conservative and less concerned with trivial matter
she might be running today as Hillary Rodham and you wouldn't be able to
use her last name to clump her in with Bill.

You #NeverHillary activist are a scream. Does this thread have selective
amnesia?

What about http://www.jill2016.com/  and why isn't the main Green Party
logo for this campaign Stein2016?
It seems to me that every criticism of the Democrats use of "Hillary"
listed above applies equally to the Greens use of "Jill"

There is also "Jill not Hill" Google search for that turns up 37,000 hits.
In addition the above criticisms that apply to "Hillary" I would add 2
more, one minor and one major.
The minor added critique is that it represents a mangling of the name of
the other woman running for president, and can be added to Stein's tweet
that she is a better mother than Clinton. I hate to see a so-called
progressive campaign stoop to that level. Have you ever heard a male
politician brag that he is a better father than his opponent? The question
of what kind father he is doesn't even come up. [I can hear the rebuttal
now "well it should" don't bother.]

The major critique is that it clearly frames the Stein campaign as a
pro-Trump campaign. As the Green's main slogan it shows clearly that they
are going after Clinton voters, not Trump voters, Johnson voters,or new
voters. It is a slogan to divert Clinton voters towards Stein, and unless
she has a snowball's chance in hell of winning, she doesn't, it is a
pro-Trump slogan. In fact, if past practice applies, we can expect that
there will be a fair amount of GOP money promoting that slogan.

-
The one thing I think the Green's are right about is that bourgeois
democracy, which they refer to at it current stage as "neo-liberalist",
does trend toward fascist in the period of imperialist decay. It can be
fairly argued that WWII was more than just a worldwide conflict between
imperialist powers over the division of the world as WWI was, it was also
the first worldwide fascist assault on bourgeois democracy and socialism.
Fortunately this first assault was beaten back by a worldwide coalition of
socialists and "neo-liberals."

I think we are currently witnessing the second worldwide fascist assault on
bourgeoisie democracy and socialism such as it still exists. It already
holds state power in Russian, has developed its barbaric practices in Syria
and, is now making concerted efforts to win state power in the west,
initially by non-violent means.

Given these developments, one could only wish that a Marxist mail list
would spend more time discussing that and less selectively discussing one
of the two female presidential candidates that promotes her first name.

Clay Claiborne, Director
Vietnam: American Holocaust 
Linux Beach Productions
Venice, CA 90291
(310) 581-1536

Read my blogs at the Linux Beach 
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Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 10/1/16 10:19 AM, Mark Lause via Marxism wrote:

On the other hand, there can be some confusion with just "Clinton,"
especially if you are discussing a matter of record.   That's because of
Bill, of course.  This is a problem with decadent dynastic politics.



I think one of the first signs of the SWP's departure from the planet 
earth was its insistence that he should be referred to as William 
Clinton and before him James Carter. They thought that using Bill or 
Jimmy was crossing class lines.

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Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

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Yes, this is primarily a Democratic Party tactical choice.  Look at the
bumper stickers, buttons, etc. or how she is discussed in the media by her
supporters.  (You don't see much "Vote for Donnie.")  The ad people would
say that "Hillary" tends to humanize her and make her grandmotherly.  It
further emphasizes gender and consolidates the most ardent of her core
constituency--women who think that her election will automatically be good
for women because she is one.  (A twist on the only plausible argument
supporters made for Obama.)

Then, too, if someone who doesn't support her calls her "Hillary," they can
ask why they call her "Hillary" and the Republican candidate "Trump."

On the other hand, there can be some confusion with just "Clinton,"
especially if you are discussing a matter of record.   That's because of
Bill, of course.  This is a problem with decadent dynastic politics.

ML
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Re: [Marxism] What's up with this?

[Gary MacLennan via Marxism]

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Interesting John.  I insist on using Clinton. and Hilary Clinton when there
is some possible confusion.  I do that because I read somewhere that the
calling of Thatcher "Maggie" helped humanize the devil.

The same thing happened here in Qld when the ultra right Premier Johannes
Bjelke Petersen was known to almost all as "Joh".  I insisted that to use
"Joh" was to redeem him by buying into the semi comic rural populism that
was his shtick.


So to me they are Trump and Clinton and I have no time for either.

comradely
.
Gary

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 3:48 PM, John Edmundson via Marxism <
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:

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>
>. . . supporting Trump
>
>
>. . .  pro-Trump
>
>
>. . . smearing Hillary
>
>
>. . . negatives around Hillary
>
> Why is it that Trump is always Trump but Clinton (or Rodham Clinton but she
> seems to have dropped that of late . . .) is always Hillary. Do these
> people know her personally or is there a sort of familiarity that the
> Democratic Party engenders in its supporters? Perhaps it's a Democratic
> Party thing, like, you know, like "Hey Bill, how many Somalis 'ya killed
> today?" or "Hey Barack! Dropped any Hellfire missiles on Yemen lately?"
>
> Puzzled,
> John
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[Marxism] What's up with this?

[John Edmundson via Marxism]

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   . . . supporting Trump


   . . .  pro-Trump


   . . . smearing Hillary


   . . . negatives around Hillary

Why is it that Trump is always Trump but Clinton (or Rodham Clinton but she
seems to have dropped that of late . . .) is always Hillary. Do these
people know her personally or is there a sort of familiarity that the
Democratic Party engenders in its supporters? Perhaps it's a Democratic
Party thing, like, you know, like "Hey Bill, how many Somalis 'ya killed
today?" or "Hey Barack! Dropped any Hellfire missiles on Yemen lately?"

Puzzled,
John
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