Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[DW via Marxism]

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[response to MM, I see...interestingly that is my similar objections to
GMO...not that they do a shred of harm but all production of them and the
legal framework for all of them is anti-human and anti-farmer.]

In response to Louis' 2015 article from a Jordanian medical magazine, the
article is highly flawed. It *starts out* with a gigantic assumption bias:
that EMF are dangerous. It bases this on 6 or 7 studies from Arab medical
sources and ignores the huge amount of literature that contradicts these
studies. Well before 2015 these studies were refuted. Additionally they
cited several studies that purport to show harm this way:

"Reports on exposure to electromagnetic radiation of
900 MHz from mobile phones showed that it could induce
lipid peroxidation in human erythrocytes (Moustafa et
al., 2001), in female and male rabbits (Güler et al., 2012)
and in the hippocampus and brain cortex of rats as well as
oxidative stress and histopathological changes in the rats’
endometrium (Ilhan et al., 2004; Ferrari, 2012), induces a
transient alteration of epidermal homoeostasis"

Yes, and not a single study that shows the *same* effect in humans! This is
one of the problems with animal studies...they are not humans. The thing
bones of a rabbit or rat's scull is paper thin compared to that of a
humans. Moreover, and more importantly, the *same* studies have been
conducted on humans for *decades* with nary any sort of harm. We have
*billions* of humans who use cell phones every day, even a majority of
their waking hours, from which to do studies but *these* are never cited by
those authors of this "study".

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

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Correction, SCIENCE  isnt the same as technology.

(I'm doing this on a gd mobile phone.)

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019, 10:01 AM Mark Lause  wrote:

> As an aside, technology obviously isnt the same thing as technology.
>
> My wife and I have mobile phones.  I frankly detest them.  However, in our
> part of the city, Ma Bell effectively doesn't support having a land line.
> After wasting hours several weeks in a row with repeated incidents of lines
> just going dead, we had to give up and go for the alternate.
>
> This is a general problem on our street, and I suspect this isnt the only
> city letting the phone company do this in minority neighborhoods..
>
> M
>
>
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[Mark Lause via Marxism]

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As an aside, technology obviously isnt the same thing as technology.

My wife and I have mobile phones.  I frankly detest them.  However, in our
part of the city, Ma Bell effectively doesn't support having a land line.
After wasting hours several weeks in a row with repeated incidents of lines
just going dead, we had to give up and go for the alternate.

This is a general problem on our street, and I suspect this isnt the only
city letting the phone company do this in minority neighborhoods..

M
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Dec 6, 2019, at 11:52 AM, DW via Marxism  
> wrote:
> 
> There simply is no evidence whatsosever that
> any radio frequencies do damage to anyone for any reason at the low levels
> of a cell phone. MM is going light on this :)

Yes; trying to play nice with others :-). And just to clarify, when I said 
there’s plenty to be concerned about with mobile phones, I meant *other than 
radiation*: ecological impacts of their material inputs; appalling labour and 
production practices; designed obsolescence and waste from disposability; 
impacts of screen time on developing brains; social isolation; etc. 
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[DW via Marxism]

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An absolutely garbage article. There simply is no evidence whatsosever that
any radio frequencies do damage to anyone for any reason at the low levels
of a cell phone. MM is going light on this :).  But he did pin it
correctly: it is based on rumor and paranoia. I will say there is in fact
"nothing to worry about". We have 3 decades of high frequency *omni
directional* cell phone usage, wi-fi and other frequencies hitting us. Too
many studies have show nothing, absolutely nothing, to effect humans,
especially as compared with societies without wifi and without cell phones
(the phones themselves and the cell towers). We have had  a decade of smart
meters which also send out in an omni directional (meaning the energy
transmitted decreases exponentially the further one is from it). More
interestingly, studies of life long ham radio operators...who for 5 decades
or long would sit for hours a few feet away from their very high wattage
(often 300 watts or more) also show zero signs of effects. The "metabolic
rift" between the Left and science continues to widen I fear...

David Walters
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Dec 6, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Louis Proyect  wrote:
> 
> On 12/6/19 9:08 AM, MM wrote:
>> There’s plenty to be concerned about with mobile phones but this piece is 
>> completely off target. From the NYT a few months ago:
> 
> I posted this less about the impact on human beings but on the environment.
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292983562_Environmental_Pollution_of_Cell-Phone_Towers_Detection_and_Analysis_Using_Geographic_Information_System

A perfectly legimitate thing to worry about, and the “precautionary principle” 
should certainly be followed in all such cases, but even that piece relies as 
much on a certain paranoia about the health / environmental impacts of 
radiation than the current state of scientific confidence really supports. 
Here’s a useful overview from ACS (again focused mainly on humans, but humans 
are also animals, so a lot of this applies to other life):

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/extremely-low-frequency-radiation.html

I’m not saying there’s nothing at all to be concerned about here, but if we 
don’t get GHG emissions under control, soon, cell phone towers are going to be 
the least of anyone’s worries. And if people think we’re going to succeed in 
organizing the way we need to in order to get emissions under control without 
using our cell phones, they’re living on another planet.
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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On 12/6/19 9:08 AM, MM wrote:


There’s plenty to be concerned about with mobile phones but this piece 
is completely off target. From the NYT a few months ago:


I posted this less about the impact on human beings but on the environment.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292983562_Environmental_Pollution_of_Cell-Phone_Towers_Detection_and_Analysis_Using_Geographic_Information_System
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Re: [Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[MM via Marxism]

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> On Dec 6, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/12/06/why-i-dont-have-a-mobile-phone/ 
> 


There’s plenty to be concerned about with mobile phones but this piece is 
completely off target. From the NYT a few months ago:

The 5G Health Hazard That Isn’t
How one scientist and his inaccurate chart led to unwarranted fears of wireless 
technology.

Over the years, Dr. Curry’s warning spread far, resonating with educators, 
consumers and entire cities as the frequencies of cellphones, cell towers and 
wireless local networks rose. To no small degree, the blossoming anxiety over 
the professed health risks of 5G technology can be traced to a single scientist 
and a single chart.

Except that Dr. Curry and his graph got it wrong.

According to experts on the biological effects of electromagnetic radiation, 
radio waves become safer at higher frequencies, not more dangerous. (Extremely 
high-frequency energies, such as X-rays, behave differently and do pose a 
health risk.)

In his research, Dr. Curry looked at studies on how radio waves affect tissues 
isolated in the lab, and misinterpreted the results as applying to cells deep 
inside the human body. His analysis failed to recognize the protective effect 
of human skin. At higher radio frequencies, the skin acts as a barrier, 
shielding the internal organs, including the brain, from exposure. Human skin 
blocks the even higher frequencies of sunlight.

“It doesn’t penetrate,” said Christopher M. Collins, a professor of radiology 
at New York University who studies the effect of high-frequency electromagnetic 
waves on humans. Dr. Curry’s graph, he added, failed to take into account “the 
shielding effect.”

More: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/science/5g-cellphones-wireless-cancer.html


Those still concerned about the dangers associated with holding a mobile phone 
against the side of their heads will be pleased to learn of a newfangled 
invention called earphones.


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[Marxism] Why I Don't Have a Mobile Phone - CounterPunch.org

[Louis Proyect via Marxism]

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https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/12/06/why-i-dont-have-a-mobile-phone/
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