Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-09 Thread Andrew Pollack
Anthony Boynton's detailed look at the context in which the BPP emerged is very important. In reading David Hilliard's autobiography recently I was struck by how many times, before, during and after his Panther days, he got jobs on the docks and later became a union organizer. The point being the

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-09 Thread Dennis Brasky
On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.comwrote: That absence of the Old Left was also striking when reading the countless times he (and other Panthers in their autobiographies) say we couldn't have known, we never expected, etc., the kind of COINTELPRO dirty tricks

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-09 Thread Carrol Cox
I believe I posted to this effect a few months ago. Lefto opportunism or Ultra-Left is characterized by an overestimation of the strength of capital, an under-estimation of the strength of the working class. Using this description, I see the most destructive ultra-leftism of the '60s to have been

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-09 Thread S. Artesian
Carroll wrote: History never repeats itself, and the only lesson it teaches is the lesson that nothing is to be learned from it. So what a fool Marx was to actually study history. What a waste of time Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution is. All hail Henry Ford. History is bunk.

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-09 Thread Tom Cod
And what struck me was how in the process how little time was devoted to exposing the crimes of Franco and fascism with the onus therefor being shifted to the Stalinists, many of whom were victims of fascist repression, arguments recycled and coopted constantly by neo-cons, ex-trot or not:

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-08 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 11/8/2009 11:50:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _anthony.boyn...@gmail.com_ (mailto:anthony.boyn...@gmail.com) writes: The Black Panther Party failed, just like the SWP, the CP, and just like every other would-be wannabe revolutionary party in the history of the USA.

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-08 Thread S. Artesian
I was wondering when comrade Melyn/Waistline woud enter into the discussion, and I'm glad he did. Nobody is NOT defending the Panthers, but defense does not imply, include, require uncritical allegiance. The Panthers after all have a history, a history of their rise and fall, and that history

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-08 Thread Louis Proyect
S. Artesian wrote: Somewhere along the line, real history has to be apprehended, criticized, captured so we can maybe avoid repeating the same old same old one more same old time. Exactly. We all hail Che Guevara as an exemplary revolutionary, but the Bolivian mission was doomed from the

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-08 Thread Thomas Bias
Louis, I can understand why from this vantage-point one can consider the founding of the Fourth International a sectarian mistake. However, at the time that Trotsky proposed it, Stalinism was not only a mass movement in the working class throughout the world, it was capable of any kind of crime

Re: [Marxism] A few words In Defense of the Black Panther Party

2009-11-08 Thread Marv Gandall
Thomas Bias writes: The Fourth International was launched to combat Stalinism and social democracy in the working class, with the belief that without doing so socialist revolution was not possible. It's a little more complicated than that. The Trotskyists