istinction?
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Smith"
To: "David Schanoes"
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Gay Patriotism: Repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:23:29 -0400
> "S. Artesian"
Mark is right, of course. But that does not excuse the fact that NO gay
or lesbian groups (and few left groups, so far as I have been able to
tell) are actually opposing militarism. (A year or so ago, I recall the
Freedom Socialist Party actually saying that joining the military would
be a good
The military is a huge socialization factory for working class youth. They go
in, learn to take orders, get used and abused and spit out, usually for the
worse. If black or latino soldiers were in struggle to resist some aspect of
racist power, we'd support their struggle, even if they were st
The reason people recruitment disproportionately nets people of color and
the poor is because most people don't think of military service the way we
do. For most of them, it's a job, a chance at education, etc.
ML
YOU MUST clip all extraneous text
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:33:24 -0700
John Obrien wrote:
> Is Michael Smith arguing that people in the United States should be urging
> that all people of color and women, also be barred immediately from being in
> the U. S. military? That seems to be where his logic leads.
You're under-general
.
John O'Brien
> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:59:39 -0400
> From: m...@smithbowen.net
> Subject: Re: [Marxism] Gay Patriotism: Repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell
> To: causecollec...@msn.com
>
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:23:29 -0400
> "S. Artesian" wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:23:29 -0400
"S. Artesian" wrote:
> Yes, you're missing the point of equality, and an end to all discrimination.
I guess I am missing the point. Women and gay folks should have an equal
opportunity to kill little brown people elsewhere in the world? That would
be equali
avid Schanoes"
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Gay Patriotism: Repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell
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On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:55:07 -0400
Louis Proyect wrote:
> Gay men and women join the military for the same reasons most straight
> youth do, out of a combination of economic pressure and confused ideas
> about duty. There is no reason, once they have enlisted, for them to put
> up with the sh
Salon Magazine: A lot of what you write -- and celebrate -- in the book
is a culture of hedonism and sexual experimentation that seems at odds
with the gay marriage movement. What do you make of this generation's
pursuit of gay marriage?
Edmund White: I believe in promiscuity. But you know peop
A key (Marxist) reason for fighting for equal marriage rights or
military rights or any rights - EQUALITY - whether or not we agree
with the institutions, is to undermine the divisions that capitalism
has placed amongst working class people based on sexual orientation
(or race or gender or national
Michael Smith wrote:
> I'm trying to think this through. Wouldn't this make it less
> attractive to be a soldier? Wouldn't that be, erm, a Good Thing?
>
Gay men and women join the military for the same reasons most straight
youth do, out of a combination of economic pressure and confused ideas
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Adam Richmond wrote:
> The government at least under Bush infiltrated and spied on DADT groups.
> They are not happy about any GI organizing or alliance for soldier rights.
I'm trying to think this through. Wouldn't this make it less
attractive to
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