[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Dear all, To further support the discussion and the gathering/sharing of experience measuring the impact of online activities, I'd like to propose a panel on ROI for the MCN conference. It may be a bit late to organize something for MCN2013 but perhaps it is just enough time to prepare some indicators, test them and report on the findings during MCN2014. It would be interesting to compare indicators for online / onsite access. Though the institutional mission continues to be an important starting point, the magnitude of visitor numbers and the nature of online activity prevents for making simple comparisons (e.g. number of visitors, or duration of visit). I would advocate for a complementary set of indicators where the onsite and the online each respond to different user needs in the best way they can. If there is interest for this, I am happy to organize a ROI panel for MCN2014. best Trilce On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Leonard Steinbach lensteinbach at gmail.comwrote: Morgan, You just beat me to the send key on this one. ROI is measured by both highly tangible and more intangible results, such as fulfilling the mission irrespective of whether feet pass through the door. I noted this in reviewing a number of museum missions in advance of an MCN conference discussion related to the topic a while back. It is interesting how marketing and business units may still tend to constrict the bounds of ROI, as they still consider a successful financial and human resource investment return in terms of conversions (the term for-profit businesses use) which could mean admissions, retail, etc. Yet, I wonder how a Board might respond at hearing that hundreds or thousands of school children were using the web site as a surrogate for class visits they can no longer afford, yet still integrating the museum content into their curriculum, and developing long term bonds with those kids (and maybe their parents). Would they say this doesnt count. There are many examples one could give. This issue has come up at least as far back as the inception of broadcast radio networks, when they were not permitted for years to play recorded music, lest they preempt record purchases. Today, even orchestras are putting samples of their performances online *to generate audiences* and the Met's theatrical broadcasts of operas has not caused the Opera House to play to empty seats. And by the way, art museum exhibits have just started to come to theaters near you, too. http://www.twincities.com/entertainment/ci_22984422/museum-exhibitions-come-movie-theaters I remember working with a Chief Financial Officer who asked me as I submitted the web development budget for the subsequent year, Isnt this website stuff finished yet? Somehow I dont think she asked the Director a similar question about acquisitions for the collection. Some day perhaps she will find the former question similarly moot. As the definition of museum evolves.. I hope to live long enough to see ICOM and AAM recognize museums which are only online and meet particular criteria as bona fide and accreditable ... maybe AAM and AAMD has to get out the word, or make it part of the ethic as much as they have both promoted education and civic engagement, that getting museum content online and out there, in oh so many forms, is a valid and good thing and part of being of museum of today. Period. Len Steinbach On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Morgan Holzer morganholzer at nypl.org wrote: Bernard, For me, (someone whose job relies heavily on statistics and user research), this question actually simply comes down to your mission statement. I looked your's up ( http://www.otagomuseum.govt.nz/about-us/corporate-information/) and in part, it says: Mission: To inspire and enrich our communities, and enhance understanding of the world through our collection, our people and the stories we share... Expanding joy: Reaching out to our communities and enabling access for all. I'd wager that the vast majority of museum mission statements include something about education/outreach/access in regards to collections, and do not actually contain any mention of getting people in the door. Not putting up online collections/exhibitions is actually contrary to your stated goals of enabling access for all, and specifically targeting access for those who can attend. Of course, metrics and research help bolster the argument, but I think mission-driven arguments are always a good place to start. ~Morgan On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Proctor, Nancy ProctorN at si.edu wrote: I really appreciated Bruce Wyman and Nick Poole's responses to the question about online cannibalizing in-person museum visits. Sadly this is still a question museum technologists face, but more importantly I agree we need to do better at measuring ROI - though I would add, on all platforms museums
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Morgan, You just beat me to the send key on this one. ROI is measured by both highly tangible and more intangible results, such as fulfilling the mission irrespective of whether feet pass through the door. I noted this in reviewing a number of museum missions in advance of an MCN conference discussion related to the topic a while back. It is interesting how marketing and business units may still tend to constrict the bounds of ROI, as they still consider a successful financial and human resource investment return in terms of conversions (the term for-profit businesses use) which could mean admissions, retail, etc. Yet, I wonder how a Board might respond at hearing that hundreds or thousands of school children were using the web site as a surrogate for class visits they can no longer afford, yet still integrating the museum content into their curriculum, and developing long term bonds with those kids (and maybe their parents). Would they say this doesnt count. There are many examples one could give. This issue has come up at least as far back as the inception of broadcast radio networks, when they were not permitted for years to play recorded music, lest they preempt record purchases. Today, even orchestras are putting samples of their performances online *to generate audiences* and the Met's theatrical broadcasts of operas has not caused the Opera House to play to empty seats. And by the way, art museum exhibits have just started to come to theaters near you, too. http://www.twincities.com/entertainment/ci_22984422/museum-exhibitions-come-movie-theaters I remember working with a Chief Financial Officer who asked me as I submitted the web development budget for the subsequent year, Isnt this website stuff finished yet? Somehow I dont think she asked the Director a similar question about acquisitions for the collection. Some day perhaps she will find the former question similarly moot. As the definition of museum evolves.. I hope to live long enough to see ICOM and AAM recognize museums which are only online and meet particular criteria as bona fide and accreditable ... maybe AAM and AAMD has to get out the word, or make it part of the ethic as much as they have both promoted education and civic engagement, that getting museum content online and out there, in oh so many forms, is a valid and good thing and part of being of museum of today. Period. Len Steinbach On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Morgan Holzer morganholzer at nypl.orgwrote: Bernard, For me, (someone whose job relies heavily on statistics and user research), this question actually simply comes down to your mission statement. I looked your's up ( http://www.otagomuseum.govt.nz/about-us/corporate-information/) and in part, it says: Mission: To inspire and enrich our communities, and enhance understanding of the world through our collection, our people and the stories we share... Expanding joy: Reaching out to our communities and enabling access for all. I'd wager that the vast majority of museum mission statements include something about education/outreach/access in regards to collections, and do not actually contain any mention of getting people in the door. Not putting up online collections/exhibitions is actually contrary to your stated goals of enabling access for all, and specifically targeting access for those who can attend. Of course, metrics and research help bolster the argument, but I think mission-driven arguments are always a good place to start. ~Morgan On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Proctor, Nancy ProctorN at si.edu wrote: I really appreciated Bruce Wyman and Nick Poole's responses to the question about online cannibalizing in-person museum visits. Sadly this is still a question museum technologists face, but more importantly I agree we need to do better at measuring ROI - though I would add, on all platforms museums use, not just digital ones! Easier said than done, of course. Is anyone aggregating the links and thoughts provided in these important emails to the listserv in a blog post or other? If not, I'd be happy to start a post on the Musematic blog (or other recommended site) as I'm sure many others have useful references and past posts to add as well. Nancy -- We all get a lot of email; here's how I try to help: http://emailcharter.org -- Nancy Proctor, PhD Head of Mobile Strategy Initiatives Office of the Assistant Secretary for Education and Access Smithsonian Institution http://SI.edu/Mobile proctorn at si.edu @nancyproctor t: +1-202-633-8439 c: +1-301-642-6257 Want to mobilize? * Sign up for the SI Mobile mailing list here: http://si-listserv.si.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SIMOBILE * Visit our blog: http://Smithsonian20.si.edu and wiki: http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/Mobile * Follow the museum mobile community: #SImobile #mtogo and at http://wiki.MuseumMobile.info To unsubscribe
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Dear colleagues, Many thanks to Bernard for raising this question about the relationship between real and virtual visits. It comes up fairly regularly, and I am not sure that it is so easy to dismiss. As Bruce says, there is certainly a body of evidence which suggests in broad terms that online access is good for onsite visitor stats, and I think (I hope!) we have moved past the simple prejudice which holds that online cannibalises onsite. Once past the prejudice, though, there is still a vast evidential gap, and it is one which as a community I believe we ought to start to close. If I am a trained marketing professional or a finance director, I am going to ask a perfectly legitimate question about the ROI on my investment in online activity (and therefore which activities I ought to prioritise in future). As a collections professional, I still don't have a valid answer (supported by clear evidence) about how online will reinforce the customer experience, for which demographics and in which ways. In my experience, it remains the case that most online activity for museums is assertion-based, rather than evidence-based. For example, I know that there are some audiences for which a virtual visit does, indeed, replace a physical visit - and that's OK. For others, the online offer will only ever serve as a brand extension for the real, physical and sensory experience of being proximate to extraordinary things. For others still, there is no way they'll ever be able to visit in person, but the simple fact of discovery will enrich their lives every bit as much as if they were in the room with the object. I have absolutely no doubt that a coherent, integrated and creative digital offer can extent the depth and value of the end-user experience, and as Bruce correctly observes, the distinction between 'real' and 'virtual' is like to become quaintly archaic in the years ahead. If Bernard is going to win his argument, though, then he needs an evidentially-valid way of showing that online does not equate simply to 'more', but 'better, deeper, more engaged and longer-term'. In much the same way as broadcast media had to find ways of showing depth, engagement and ROI with their output, I don't think it is sufficient for us to keep saying 'digital is good'. We need to be able to say, 'here's what digital adds to your marketing and audience engagement mix, and here's the kind of impact, reach and return you can expect from it'. I'd really love to know whether people have been able to develop clear, segmented impact indicators from their online activity? All best, Nick Nick Poole Chief Executive Officer Collections Trust Has your museum joined Hidden Treasures 2014? Promoting public engagement with collections in partnership with the Independent. http://www.hiddentreasures.org.uk Linked ?? Join CT's Collections Management Group Visit Collections Trust online www.collectionstrust.org.uk www.collectionslink.org.uk www.culturegrid.org.uk Company Registration No: 1300565 Registered Charity No: 273984 Registered Office: Collections Trust, WC 209, Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Bruce Wyman Sent: 31 July 2013 21:46 To: Bernard Hamlin; Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] Online vs physical visits Bernard - Here's the quick answer: Online experiences and availability don't cannibalize physical visits. That you're still having this conversation is, um, unfortunate. I think most staff would acknowledge that books - with their incredibly high resolution images and detail that can be copied and reused - have never been a deterrent to exhibits. Your digital presence, website, publications, whatever, is scarcely different. But you asked for quantifiable information rather than pontification. ;) Paul Marty has a pretty good paper on the topic at http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/106394/1/marty_mwmv_part1.pdf. He even has tables for the text-impaired amongst our colleagues. The paper references great sources (which will lead to other quantified information). Quoting from the paper: ...The concern focuses on whether museums providing online access to their collections will see a corresponding decrease in physical visits. At some stage in the planning process, someone usually asks, if visitors can access our digital collections using the Internet, will they still come to the museum in person? The commonsense answer to this question is that, to the best of current knowledge, online visitors are also physical visitors. Logically, this makes sense; no one asks: If people can look at pictures of beaches online, will they still vacation in Florida? In theory, the ability to access virtual museum resources online should serve as a lure, encouraging potential museum-goers to visit the physical
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
I really appreciated Bruce Wyman and Nick Poole's responses to the question about online cannibalizing in-person museum visits. Sadly this is still a question museum technologists face, but more importantly I agree we need to do better at measuring ROI - though I would add, on all platforms museums use, not just digital ones! Easier said than done, of course. Is anyone aggregating the links and thoughts provided in these important emails to the listserv in a blog post or other? If not, I'd be happy to start a post on the Musematic blog (or other recommended site) as I'm sure many others have useful references and past posts to add as well. Nancy -- We all get a lot of email; here's how I try to help: http://emailcharter.org -- Nancy Proctor, PhD Head of Mobile Strategy Initiatives Office of the Assistant Secretary for Education and Access Smithsonian Institution http://SI.edu/Mobile proctorn at si.edu @nancyproctor t: +1-202-633-8439 c: +1-301-642-6257 Want to mobilize? * Sign up for the SI Mobile mailing list here: http://si-listserv.si.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SIMOBILE * Visit our blog: http://Smithsonian20.si.edu and wiki: http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/Mobile * Follow the museum mobile community: #SImobile #mtogo and at http://wiki.MuseumMobile.info To unsubscribe from the SIMOBILE list, or change your subscription options, please click here: http://si-listserv.si.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SIMOBILEA=1in-box!
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Bernard, For me, (someone whose job relies heavily on statistics and user research), this question actually simply comes down to your mission statement. I looked your's up ( http://www.otagomuseum.govt.nz/about-us/corporate-information/) and in part, it says: Mission: To inspire and enrich our communities, and enhance understanding of the world through our collection, our people and the stories we share... Expanding joy: Reaching out to our communities and enabling access for all. I'd wager that the vast majority of museum mission statements include something about education/outreach/access in regards to collections, and do not actually contain any mention of getting people in the door. Not putting up online collections/exhibitions is actually contrary to your stated goals of enabling access for all, and specifically targeting access for those who can attend. Of course, metrics and research help bolster the argument, but I think mission-driven arguments are always a good place to start. ~Morgan On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Proctor, Nancy ProctorN at si.edu wrote: I really appreciated Bruce Wyman and Nick Poole's responses to the question about online cannibalizing in-person museum visits. Sadly this is still a question museum technologists face, but more importantly I agree we need to do better at measuring ROI - though I would add, on all platforms museums use, not just digital ones! Easier said than done, of course. Is anyone aggregating the links and thoughts provided in these important emails to the listserv in a blog post or other? If not, I'd be happy to start a post on the Musematic blog (or other recommended site) as I'm sure many others have useful references and past posts to add as well. Nancy -- We all get a lot of email; here's how I try to help: http://emailcharter.org -- Nancy Proctor, PhD Head of Mobile Strategy Initiatives Office of the Assistant Secretary for Education and Access Smithsonian Institution http://SI.edu/Mobile proctorn at si.edu @nancyproctor t: +1-202-633-8439 c: +1-301-642-6257 Want to mobilize? * Sign up for the SI Mobile mailing list here: http://si-listserv.si.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SIMOBILE * Visit our blog: http://Smithsonian20.si.edu and wiki: http://smithsonian-webstrategy.wikispaces.com/Mobile * Follow the museum mobile community: #SImobile #mtogo and at http://wiki.MuseumMobile.info To unsubscribe from the SIMOBILE list, or change your subscription options, please click here: http://si-listserv.si.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SIMOBILEA=1in-box! ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://mcn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://mcn.edu/pipermail/mcn-l/
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Bernard, there is a video of a panel discussion, available on youtube, that explores the topic of museum web sites and their value. You can search for it by title, What's the Point of a Museum Web Site. The meat of the discussion starts about 5 minutes in; there's some good philosophical as well as practical insight. Sarah Clark Curator Staten Island Historical Society Staten Island, NY 718-351-1611, ext. 272 www.historicrichmondtown.org Explore our collections at: http://historicrichmondtown.org/collections -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:59:38 + From: Bernard Hamlin bernard.ham...@otagomuseum.govt.nz To: mcn-l at mcn.edu mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: [MCN-L] Online vs physical visits Message-ID: hg95dalyrjx6wfwubiv4u782.1375300773721 at email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey there, I've been having a long running discussion with our team about the impact of our website on physical visits to our building. The rub appears to be the idea that offering a Web experience of objects and exhibitions will cannibalise real experiences. I'm not convinced that this is the case but I don't have any numbers, which are important! Would anyone out there be willing to share door numbers say before and after launching an online collection? Or a similar metric? Thanks Bernard Hamlin IT Coordinator Otago Museum
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Hey there, I've been having a long running discussion with our team about the impact of our website on physical visits to our building. The rub appears to be the idea that offering a Web experience of objects and exhibitions will cannibalise real experiences. I'm not convinced that this is the case but I don't have any numbers, which are important! Would anyone out there be willing to share door numbers say before and after launching an online collection? Or a similar metric? Thanks Bernard Hamlin IT Coordinator Otago Museum
[MCN-L] Online vs physical visits
Bernard ? Here's the quick answer: Online experiences and availability don't cannibalize physical visits. That you're still having this conversation is, um, unfortunate. I think most staff would acknowledge that books ? with their incredibly high resolution images and detail that can be copied and reused ? have never been a deterrent to exhibits. Your digital presence, website, publications, whatever, is scarcely different. But you asked for quantifiable information rather than pontification. ;) Paul Marty has a pretty good paper on the topic at http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/106394/1/marty_mwmv_part1.pdf. He even has tables for the text-impaired amongst our colleagues. The paper references great sources (which will lead to other quantified information). Quoting from the paper: ?The concern focuses on whether museums providing online access to their collections will see a corresponding decrease in physical visits. At some stage in the planning process, someone usually asks, ?if visitors can access our digital collections using the Internet, will they still come to the museum in person?? The commonsense answer to this question is that, to the best of current knowledge, online visitors are also physical visitors. Logically, this makes sense; no one asks: ?If people can look at pictures of beaches online, will they still vacation in Florida?? In theory, the ability to access virtual museum resources online should serve as a lure, encouraging potential museum-goers to visit the physical installation. But is this true? Haley Goldman and Wadman wrote, ?The relationship between virtual museum sites and physical sites has not been extensively researched. [...] Museum Web site staff that we spoke with felt that the museum Web site boosted attendance for the physical museum, but they had no concrete evidence to prove it. While there are no studies disproving the commonsense approach, one can always have more studies with solid, detailed data that backs up this theory? (Haley Goldman and Wadman 2002; cf. McKenzie 1997). Recently, a number of surveys have provided compelling evidence that online museums actually drive physical museum attendance instead of discouraging physical visits; in the majority of studies, planning a museum visit is consistently cited as the primary reason people visit museum websites (Haley Goldman and Schaller 2004; cf. Bowen, Bennet, and Johnson 1998; Chadwick and Boverie 1999). Kravchyna and Hastings (2002) found that 57% of museum website users visit museum websites both before and after they visit physical museums. Similarly, Thomas and Carey (2005) found that 70% of museum visitors specifically looked for online information prior to a museum visit, and that 57% said the information they found online increased their desire to visit the museum in person. -bw. On Jul 31, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Bernard Hamlin Bernard.Hamlin at otagomuseum.govt.nz wrote: Hey there, I've been having a long running discussion with our team about the impact of our website on physical visits to our building. The rub appears to be the idea that offering a Web experience of objects and exhibitions will cannibalise real experiences. I'm not convinced that this is the case but I don't have any numbers, which are important! Would anyone out there be willing to share door numbers say before and after launching an online collection? Or a similar metric? Thanks Bernard Hamlin IT Coordinator Otago Museum ___ You are currently subscribed to mcn-l, the listserv of the Museum Computer Network (http://www.mcn.edu) To post to this list, send messages to: mcn-l at mcn.edu To unsubscribe or change mcn-l delivery options visit: http://mcn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l The MCN-L archives can be found at: http://mcn.edu/pipermail/mcn-l/ Bruce Wyman bwyman at teufelkind.net
