Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Nov 11, 2013 9:57 PM, "Scott Ritchey"  wrote:
>
> The aircraft are prohibitively expensive
> because of government regulation and liability.  How is the number of
pilots
> factor in except (maybe) to increase demand which (all things being equal)
> also increases price.

No, it drives down price because of competition and economies of scale.
The sport pilot license was supposed to usher in a new era of general
aviation when ordinary guys with $100K burning a hole in their pocket would
buy a small plane instead of a Corvette or Porsche.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Scott Ritchey]

Ignoring the fact that the TTx is not really a new design, let us see how
this plays out.  Cessna only started making the TTx this year.  I recall
discussion here about another novel aircraft (I don't recall the model) that
sold in small numbers until the builder bought back all surviving copies,
again for liability reasons).

It seems the innovation in light aircraft is in the experimental and kit
aircraft.  I recall one of the Rutan brothers (back in the 70s) telling us
that they only sell plans (no aircraft) for liability reasons.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:02 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

Not true, even Cessna has new designs now (well, they bought them but are
building and selling them now). The TTx is a new, composit single engine
aircraft.
"With superior safety and performance engineered into the design DNA of the
aircraft, every inch of the TTx has been meticulously refined for an
aerodynamic purity that contributes to its jet-like handling. Manufactured
in all-composite materials, the TTx is a true high-performance aircraft.
With built-in oxygen, 102-gallon fuel capacity, touch-screen glass
avionics, and available satellite radios, the TTx is an exceptionally
well-equipped flying machine. Its class-leading 235-knot maximum cruise
speed sets it solidly above every other aircraft in its class."

The Cirrus is a recent new aircraft. http://www.cirrusaircraft.com/

Yes, they look like the old ones - but are "refined" and MUCH more
expensive.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
> design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based
on
> 50-year-old designs.





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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[OK Don]

The sport pilot license resulted in a new group of qualified aircraft that
sell in the $100k to $200k range - less than half the cost of a new
standard light aircraft. How that is supposed to help, I don't know. What
it has done is keep old geasers flying who can't (or are afraid they can't)
pass the medical exam. It has breathed new life (with higher selling
prices) in the market for the old aircraft that qualify for light sport.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Alex Chamberlain
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Scott Ritchey 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> > liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation
> aircraft
> > design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based
> on
> > 50-year-old designs.
> >
> >
> So why didn't the new daylight-hours-only "sport pilot" license lead to
> vastly increased interest in general aviation, driving down the prices, as
> was speculated would happen a few years back?
>
> Alex
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Scott Ritchey]

I fail to see the connection.  The aircraft are prohibitively expensive
because of government regulation and liability.  How is the number of pilots
factor in except (maybe) to increase demand which (all things being equal)
also increases price.  The longevity of these old birds increases the time
window for liability.  

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Chamberlain
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 10:58 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
> design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based
on
> 50-year-old designs.
>
>
So why didn't the new daylight-hours-only "sport pilot" license lead to
vastly increased interest in general aviation, driving down the prices, as
was speculated would happen a few years back?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[OK Don]

Not true, even Cessna has new designs now (well, they bought them but are
building and selling them now). The TTx is a new, composit single engine
aircraft.
"With superior safety and performance engineered into the design DNA of the
aircraft, every inch of the TTx has been meticulously refined for an
aerodynamic purity that contributes to its jet-like handling. Manufactured
in all-composite materials, the TTx is a true high-performance aircraft.
With built-in oxygen, 102-gallon fuel capacity, touch-screen glass
avionics, and available satellite radios, the TTx is an exceptionally
well-equipped flying machine. Its class-leading 235-knot maximum cruise
speed sets it solidly above every other aircraft in its class."

The Cirrus is a recent new aircraft. http://www.cirrusaircraft.com/

Yes, they look like the old ones - but are "refined" and MUCH more
expensive.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
> design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based on
> 50-year-old designs.




-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[OK Don]

I think he means PPL = Private Pilot License  and 183R was supposed to be
Cessna 182R, the 1986 "re-start" model after Cessna quit building single
engine aircraft in 1977 due to liability suits.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Craig  wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:47:22 -0500 "Gerry Archer"
>  wrote:
>
> > Old friend in Tallahassee built and flew electric model planes equipped
> > with cameras after he gave up his PPL and 183R due to age.
>
> PPL?
>
> 183R?
>
>
> --
>
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[OK Don]

Yup, had one.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that
> turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed
> around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that
> would work.
> Gerry
>
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
> design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based on
> 50-year-old designs.
>
>
So why didn't the new daylight-hours-only "sport pilot" license lead to
vastly increased interest in general aviation, driving down the prices, as
was speculated would happen a few years back?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

> So when I read "fuel", generally interpret that as "not-gasoline" -
> typically diesel, though it could be CNG (compressed natural gas),
> kerosine [paraffin], propane, hydrogen, uranium, bunker oil, WVO,
> etc - or even gasoline [petrol]!


Hendrik will probably chortle at this, but when I visited rural Australia I
was baffled by fuel station signs listing prices for "petrol," "diesel,"
and "gas," until I realized "gas" meant CNG, or possibly propane.

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[G Mann]

A new 172 Cessna will now cost you about $500,000 I'm told.  4 place garden
variety, 130 mph airplane.

Government regulations over past 20 years along with OSHA and EPA
compliance has driven up the price while sales have evaporated...

The old airplanes built 50 yrs ago are more rugged by far in the far north,
plus, they can actually be fixed in the field and flow out.. survival
depends on that..


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
> liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
> design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based on
> 50-year-old designs.
>
> I once read a speculation that if the Government was in charge of all polio
> research, we still would not have a vaccine but we would have the most
> elaborate and expensive iron lungs imaginable.  The younger readers know
> how
> to Google it and we older readers still remember.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mitch > Haley
> > >
> > > It is amazing that they are still using aircraft that are 70 years old
> > > for commercial purposes in such a difficult and hostile environment.
> >
> ...
>
>
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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[MBZ] Scored a SL kit holder

[clay]

I have been kicking myself over not snagging the first aid kit holder eight 
years ago out of the PnP SLC.  Looking over CL and fleabay, these things are 
running to three figures!  That ain't gonna work.  Yesterday I saw a listing 
for a w115 map pocket.  Looked like no door pocket, seller knew it went to the 
footwell.  He wanted $40 for these beauty.  I offered him $20 and waited, 
expecting no deal.  He responded in the affirmative.  I jumped in the car and 
drove the 80 miles to pick it up before he figured out just what all he had.

I already have the White Cross, green first aid box and it fits perfectly.  Now 
I need to stock my box, secure the holder in Frosch and grin like an idiot.


clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Fmiser]

> Andrew wrote:
> 
> Who gives a sh*t about "fuel"?  I want to know about DIESEL.

Err, "fuel" is the general term that includes both gasoline and
diesel.  Among truck drivers, the term "fuel" where most people in
the US use "gas".  Like, "My fuel tank is mostly full, so I'll keep
going.", or "What's a good place to get fuel on US 50?", or
"Someone stole my fuel cap."

So when I read "fuel", generally interpret that as "not-gasoline" -
typically diesel, though it could be CNG (compressed natural gas),
kerosine [paraffin], propane, hydrogen, uranium, bunker oil, WVO,
etc - or even gasoline [petrol]!

--Philip



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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Mountain Man]

Dan wrote:
> And to think of all the fun I used to have with a pack of matches
>

I liked the wooden match stick guns we made using 3-piece clothes pins
- the ones with metal spring.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Craig]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:47:22 -0500 "Gerry Archer"
 wrote:

> Old friend in Tallahassee built and flew electric model planes equipped
> with cameras after he gave up his PPL and 183R due to age.

PPL?

183R?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Scott Ritchey]

With current liability laws and a lawsuit-happy society it is
liability-prohibitive to develop and build a new general aviation aircraft
design.  Practically every general aviation commercial aircraft is based on
50-year-old designs. 

I once read a speculation that if the Government was in charge of all polio
research, we still would not have a vaccine but we would have the most
elaborate and expensive iron lungs imaginable.  The younger readers know how
to Google it and we older readers still remember.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mitch > Haley
> >
> > It is amazing that they are still using aircraft that are 70 years old
> > for commercial purposes in such a difficult and hostile environment.
> 
...



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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[Gerry Archer]

You and Rich are refreshing my memory since I haven't had it out in about 10 
years.

Thanks,
Gerry


MEANT to say, "Isn't there also a SCREW in bottom of the console tray near 
rear of console and above the drive shaft tunnel?"


Wilt
- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem



Yes that just pops out (I think) or there might be a screw to hold it in?

--R


On 11/11/13 6:02 PM, WILTON wrote:

Isn't there also in bottom console "tray" near rear of the console?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem


It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround 
for the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.


That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember 
exactly how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of 
the console sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and 
out.  After you remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the 
shifter.


--R


On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here 
is a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, 
and on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found 
anywhere inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate 
control, and ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped 
down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing 
where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible 
"grabber" might pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 
3, and 4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they 
are disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6826 - Release Date: 11/11/13




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Re: [MBZ] Cord for Block Heater

[Larry T]

Hi Alex,
Thanks again for the warning.  I rec'd the new one from Gary today 
and tried to push it on a little while ago -- Man!  You weren't kidding 
about it being a bad design -- the push fit is very poor - plus it's 
very hard to reach - why couldn't they have put the heater nearer the 
middle of the engine instead of over the starter?  with hoses and 
brackets in the way it's almost impossible to push the plug into 
position!  I tried pushing it in place with a 1/2" dia pipe but that 
nearly damaged the connector.   with the time change it's getting dark 
pretty early so I'll try again tomorrow.


Thanks again for all the info from you & others.

I am hoping it will start easier with a warm engine..  plus it has 
1/2 tank of 14 mo old fuel mixed with 1/2 tank of fresh fuel.  Hopefully 
that'll help -


Larry

On 11/7/2013 9:41 AM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Larry T  wrote:


for those offering to sell me a block heater cord - the one I need has a 2
plug connection on the end that attaches to the block heater connection. I
saw some that have 3 connections -- here's one on eBay that looks like mine
-
item #  300363192433



That looks like the aftermarket one I had on my '87 300D for a while.
  Terrible design.  The socket end stays on the block purely by friction,
which means engine vibration will make it fall off after a while.  There's
a more expensive type that actually screws in.  That's the one you want.

Alex
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[MBZ] Subject: Re: OT - a mess

[RDeafBoy]

"My "six" shooter was my right hand  with index finger 
extended to  form the "barrel" and thumb up to form the "hammer," also 
complemented by  perfect vocal sound effects."

Wilton

And my ex-wife's "toy" vibrator was my index & middle  finger-no 
battery required !!She provided the vocal sound  effects...[sheepish grin]
 
 Bob
  { Who couldn't resist this}
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[MBZ] Plane crash

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

A Mu2 crashed the other day in the woods near the airport here killing one our 
senators son. Have not heard about one crashing in a while. I have flown a lot 
on one of them back in the  early 90s.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[WILTON]

MEANT to say, "Isn't there also a SCREW in bottom of the console tray near 
rear of console and above the drive shaft tunnel?"


Wilt
- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem



Yes that just pops out (I think) or there might be a screw to hold it in?

--R


On 11/11/13 6:02 PM, WILTON wrote:

Isn't there also in bottom console "tray" near rear of the console?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem


It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround for 
the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.


That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember exactly 
how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of the console 
sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and out.  After 
you remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the shifter.


--R


On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here 
is a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, 
and on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found 
anywhere inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate 
control, and ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped 
down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing 
where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible 
"grabber" might pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 
3, and 4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they 
are disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[Gerry Archer]

I tried that but the connector is probably down, back, and under where it 
can't be seen.  I even tried a Milwaukee Digital Inspection Camera received 
as a present several years ago, but the four foot shaft is a flexible steel 
tube that isn't very flexible and wouldn't make the turn inside the 
compartment.


Looks like I'll have to take out the console.  One consolation is that the 
bulbs for everything in the console can be replaced while it's off.

Thanks to both y'all for the suggestions,
Gerry

From: "Andrew Strasfogel" 

Shine a flashlight into the opening.  It's there somewhere.

 Rich Thomas
 wrote:

It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround for
the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.

That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember exactly
how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of the console
sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and out.  After 
you

remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the shifter.

--R



On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here 
is

a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:

The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, 
and

on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found anywhere
inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate control, and
ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped
down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing
where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible 
"grabber"

might pull it up if its likely location is known.

The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 3,
and 4.

http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they 
are

disconnected.

Thanks,
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[Rich Thomas]

Yes that just pops out (I think) or there might be a screw to hold it in?

--R


On 11/11/13 6:02 PM, WILTON wrote:

Isn't there also in bottom console "tray" near rear of the console?

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem


It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround 
for the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.


That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember 
exactly how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of 
the console sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back 
and out.  After you remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the 
shifter.


--R


On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; 
here is a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on 
the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was 
removed, and on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not 
be found anywhere inside the center compartment that hold the radio, 
climate control, and ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have 
slipped down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate 
knowing where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A 
flexible "grabber" might pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 
2, 3, and 4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as 
they are disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[WILTON]

Isn't there also in bottom console "tray" near rear of the console?

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Silly problem


It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround for 
the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.


That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember exactly 
how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of the console 
sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and out.  After 
you remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the shifter.


--R


On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here 
is a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, 
and on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found 
anywhere inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate 
control, and ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped 
down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing 
where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible 
"grabber" might pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 
3, and 4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they 
are disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[WILTON]

Yep, you were rich.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Gerry Archer" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess




We were sort of "rich" during the 1930s Depression since father had a 
secure job.
The result was that my parents and three older working sisters "spoiled" 
their sickly little brother with Christmas and birthday gifts.
I had a Lionel train set, an Erector set, a crystal radio, and a single 
cylinder steam engine with a brass boiler that was heated by a 110v coil. 
The safety valve was a tapered (lead?) plug on a lever which had a 
moveable weight that could vary the pressure in the boiler and the speed 
of the piston / flywheel.
Occasionally the safety valve would stick, the piston-flywheel would build 
up enough speed to make the steam engine "walk" around the floor, and when 
it came unstuck; hot water and steam would come blasting out of the safety 
valve.  It's a wonder the brass boiler didn't blow up and/or me and my 
friends didn't get burnt by the steam / hot water.
My son now has that little steam engine, but I don't think he has ever ran 
it.


Tried to build one plane, a Winnie Mae, but never finished it.  put 
together a Cox control line plane for son, which his sister promptly dove 
into the ground. then built a balsa wood boat designed for the little 
motor off the wrecked Cox.


We would fire it up and head it out into the lake by a friends house.  The 
little boat had a mind of its own.  It would go one way for while and 
then, for no visible reason, decide to go in another direction.
One day it made a great circle and headed back for the dock pilings.  We 
thought it was a goner but it sailed through the narrow space between two 
pilings and ran out of fuel.
I think my son still has that boat as well as the steam engine and the 
Lionel train set.


Built a pushmobile out of crate wood and the axles off a rusted out red 
wagon that was very popular with the neighborhoods little girls since they 
could "drive" it with their skirts down, but that's another story.

Gerry


On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.


I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[WILTON]

'Did enjoy watching 'em; 'haven't seen 'em for several months; 'don't 
remember what channel they were on, but cable co. may have dropped 'em or 
the channel.


Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt



Randy Bennell wrote:


Any of you folks watch "Ice Pilots of the North" about Buffalo Airways 
out of Yellowknife?


It is amazing that they are still using aircraft that are 70 years old 
for commercial purposes in such a difficult and hostile environment.


Did they ever do a 2nd season?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Gerry Archer]

Electric engine model planes seem to be the currently most popular.  This 
big subdivision where I live has a model plane "airport" which I think is 
exclusively for electric planes since fuel engine planes could cause fires 
if they crashed in this wooded area.
Old friend in Tallahassee built and flew electric model planes equipped with 
cameras after he gave up his PPL and 183R due to age.  Some of the videos he 
took from the plane are remarkable.

Gerry


From: "Dan Penoff" 


My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two 
cycle airplanes.


I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother 
got a Stuka dive bomber.


I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts 
separate and you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at 
worst.


My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and 
destroy it.


After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I 
finally convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.


We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks 
and it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The 
results were not pretty.


Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
could do to recover with no controls.


And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a 
circle with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used 
to them...


Dan


On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:


On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.


I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.



I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...


Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Gerry Archer]

Our "cars" were Lifebuoy bar soap boxes with the passenger compartment cut 
out and tiny seats and dashboards made of cardboard installed.  Don't 
remember what we used for wheels.

Gerry


On Nov 11, 2013, at 9:57 AM, WILTON  wrote:

What?  Y'all had store-bought toys?

My tractor was made from a wood sewing thread spool, a piece of crayon, a 
stick and a rubber band cut from a discarded inner tube or a rarely 
"found" store-bought rubber band.  My car or truck was a block of wood, 
complemented by perfect vocal sound effects.  My boat was a piece of pine 
bark.  My horse was a tobacco stick - that's a stick on which green 
leaves of tobacco are strung with "tobacco twine" to facilitate hanging 
the leaves in the drying/curing barn.  My "six" shooter was my right hand 
with index finger extended to form the "barrel" and thumb up to form the 
"hammer," also complemented by perfect vocal sound effects.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess



Wow, what a trip back in time!

I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.


Dan


On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

Dan Penoff wrote:

I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those 
wheels that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.

Never get that past the regulators today.


I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by 
Marx.

Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so 
hard he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster 
that went the same distance in a couple of seconds.


Sis had a green one like this:
http://search.ebay.com/390694976595

Mine was silver:
http://search.ebay.com/231092315598

Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Gerry Archer]

Gerry Archer wrote:
I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed 
around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that 
would work.


I thought our tractors were cool (they had serious motive power and could 
climb virtually anything, very impressive for a wind up toy) but a 
steamjet boat would really be something. I suppose CPSC would go berserk 
if you gave a kid a candle and a book of matches.


Mitch.


They probably would.  Parents were usually careful about dangerous toys but 
they probably thought matches and a candle in a bathtub full of water was 
safe enough.

Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Dan Penoff]

What, no King Kwik?

Dan former resident of Mt. Healthy, OH

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 3:18 PM, Zoltan Finks  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been wondering lately if one can trust that the quality of fuel from
> convenience stores or from the grocery store gas stations is as good as
> that of the major gas station chains.
> 
> Here in Cincinnati, fuel (gas) has been in the low $3 range. A United Dairy
> Farmers convenience store near my house is at $3.05 right now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Shine a flashlight into the opening.  It's there somewhere.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround for
> the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.
>
> That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember exactly
> how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of the console
> sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and out.  After you
> remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the shifter.
>
> --R
>
>
>
> On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
>
>> Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here is
>> a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:
>>
>> The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, and
>> on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found anywhere
>> inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate control, and
>> ashtray which had all been removed.
>> The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped
>> down inside the center console out of sight.
>> If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing
>> where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible "grabber"
>> might pull it up if its likely location is known.
>>
>> The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 3,
>> and 4.
>>
>> http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html
>>
>> Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they are
>> disconnected.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gerry
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Who gives a sh*t about "fuel"?  I want to know about DIESEL.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Allan Streib  wrote:

> They might cut it with higher amounts of ethanol depending on your
> location. I think the Federal standard allows up to 15% now which I
> would only want to run in a Flex-Fuel vehicle that was specifically
> designed for high ethanol blends.
>
>
>
> Check the octane also, the really cheap places around here blend it to
> 86 where as most regular unleaded is 87.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013, at 03:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:
>
> absolutely, zoli,.  they all get em from the same big tanks you see on
>
> the
>
> edge of town.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Zoltan Finks
>
> <[1]msuchpo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I've been wondering lately if one can trust that the quality of fuel
> from
>
> convenience stores or from the grocery store gas stations is as good as
>
> that of the major gas station chains.
>
>
>
> Here in Cincinnati, fuel (gas) has been in the low $3 range. A United
> Dairy
>
> Farmers convenience store near my house is at $3.05 right now.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> *reliable vendor of superior parts for mercedes and other european
> cars*
>
> *www.BuyEUROparts.com <[5]http://www.BuyEUROparts.com>*
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a steam mess

[Hendrik and Fay]

I remember some of my friends had these, think my sister has one too.
http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Workshop-Combos.html
I do recall that those tools actually cut and drilled and such.

Hendrik
who still plays with toys but they are bigger and more expensiver

On 12/11/13 02:03, Craig wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:


I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.



I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] Silly problem

[Rich Thomas]

It's not that hard to get the console out, or to remove the surround for 
the shifter, if you need to fish around a bit.


That said, it has been awhile since I did it, and don't remember exactly 
how, but I think there are a coupla screws on either side of the console 
sorta low to the front, then it can slide straight back and out.  After 
you remove the shifter surround and maybe unscrew the shifter.


--R


On 11/11/13 1:56 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:
Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here 
is a problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, 
and on re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found 
anywhere inside the center compartment that hold the radio, climate 
control, and ashtray which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped 
down inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing 
where they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible 
"grabber" might pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 
3, and 4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they 
are disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Rich Thomas]

No that was the 19, this was an SNJ I think -- silver.  My cousin had 
the PT-19.


--R

On 11/11/13 3:02 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

I think that might heave been the plane I had. Blue fuselage and a yellow wing? 
Held together with rubber bands?

If so, that was the one.


On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Rich Thomas 
 wrote:

I still have my Cox Navy trainer (I forget the number) in a box somewhere, 
along with a coupla cars.

--R



On 11/11/13 11:22 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two cycle 
airplanes.

I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother got a 
Stuka dive bomber.

I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts separate and 
you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at worst.

My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and destroy 
it.

After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I finally 
convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.

We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks and 
it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The results 
were not pretty.

Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
could do to recover with no controls.

And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a circle 
with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used to them...

Dan


On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.



I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Allan Streib]

They might cut it with higher amounts of ethanol depending on your
location. I think the Federal standard allows up to 15% now which I
would only want to run in a Flex-Fuel vehicle that was specifically
designed for high ethanol blends.



Check the octane also, the really cheap places around here blend it to
86 where as most regular unleaded is 87.





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013, at 03:28 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

absolutely, zoli,.  they all get em from the same big tanks you see on

the

edge of town.





On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Zoltan Finks

<[1]msuchpo...@gmail.com>wrote:



Hello all,



I've been wondering lately if one can trust that the quality of fuel
from

convenience stores or from the grocery store gas stations is as good as

that of the major gas station chains.



Here in Cincinnati, fuel (gas) has been in the low $3 range. A United
Dairy

Farmers convenience store near my house is at $3.05 right now.



Thanks,

Brian

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Gerry Archer]

We were sort of "rich" during the 1930s Depression since father had a secure 
job.
The result was that my parents and three older working sisters "spoiled" 
their sickly little brother with Christmas and birthday gifts.
I had a Lionel train set, an Erector set, a crystal radio, and a single 
cylinder steam engine with a brass boiler that was heated by a 110v coil. 
The safety valve was a tapered (lead?) plug on a lever which had a moveable 
weight that could vary the pressure in the boiler and the speed of the 
piston / flywheel.
Occasionally the safety valve would stick, the piston-flywheel would build 
up enough speed to make the steam engine "walk" around the floor, and when 
it came unstuck; hot water and steam would come blasting out of the safety 
valve.  It's a wonder the brass boiler didn't blow up and/or me and my 
friends didn't get burnt by the steam / hot water.
My son now has that little steam engine, but I don't think he has ever ran 
it.


Tried to build one plane, a Winnie Mae, but never finished it.  put together 
a Cox control line plane for son, which his sister promptly dove into the 
ground. then built a balsa wood boat designed for the little motor off the 
wrecked Cox.


We would fire it up and head it out into the lake by a friends house.  The 
little boat had a mind of its own.  It would go one way for while and then, 
for no visible reason, decide to go in another direction.
One day it made a great circle and headed back for the dock pilings.  We 
thought it was a goner but it sailed through the narrow space between two 
pilings and ran out of fuel.
I think my son still has that boat as well as the steam engine and the 
Lionel train set.


Built a pushmobile out of crate wood and the axles off a rusted out red 
wagon that was very popular with the neighborhoods little girls since they 
could "drive" it with their skirts down, but that's another story.

Gerry


On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.


I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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[MBZ] Silly problem

[Gerry Archer]

Since our rolling stock seems to be rolling and the list is slow; here is a 
problem I'm almost ashamed to put before the experts on the List:


The Becker Grand Prix Automatic model 612 in my '83 300D was removed, and on 
re-installation the main, four prong plug could not be found anywhere inside 
the center compartment that hold the radio, climate control, and ashtray 
which had all been removed.
The only explanation seems to be that the plug and cable have slipped down 
inside the center console out of sight.
If anyone on the group has had this happen, I would appreciate knowing where 
they found it; right, left, front, back, etc.  A flexible "grabber" might 
pull it up if its likely location is known.


The following shows the back of the radio.  The plug inserts in 1, 2, 3, and 
4.


http://www.beckerautosound.com/612/harness.html

Next time I'll snap small jumper cables on the wires / cables as they are 
disconnected.


Thanks,
Gerry 



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Re: [MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Gary Hurst]

absolutely, zoli,.  they all get em from the same big tanks you see on the
edge of town.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Zoltan Finks wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been wondering lately if one can trust that the quality of fuel from
> convenience stores or from the grocery store gas stations is as good as
> that of the major gas station chains.
>
> Here in Cincinnati, fuel (gas) has been in the low $3 range. A United Dairy
> Farmers convenience store near my house is at $3.05 right now.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
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[MBZ] Is fuel from various quickie marts trustworthy?

[Zoltan Finks]

Hello all,

I've been wondering lately if one can trust that the quality of fuel from
convenience stores or from the grocery store gas stations is as good as
that of the major gas station chains.

Here in Cincinnati, fuel (gas) has been in the low $3 range. A United Dairy
Farmers convenience store near my house is at $3.05 right now.

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

I think that might heave been the plane I had. Blue fuselage and a yellow wing? 
Held together with rubber bands?

If so, that was the one.

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Rich Thomas 
>  wrote:
> 
> I still have my Cox Navy trainer (I forget the number) in a box somewhere, 
> along with a coupla cars.
> 
> --R
> 
> 
>> On 11/11/13 11:22 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two cycle 
>> airplanes.
>> 
>> I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother got 
>> a Stuka dive bomber.
>> 
>> I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts separate 
>> and you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at worst.
>> 
>> My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and 
>> destroy it.
>> 
>> After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I 
>> finally convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.
>> 
>> We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
>> controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks 
>> and it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The 
>> results were not pretty.
>> 
>> Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
>> could do to recover with no controls.
>> 
>> And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a 
>> circle with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used to 
>> them...
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
 On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:
 
 On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:
 
 I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
 burner. Always wanted one of them.
>>> I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.
>>> 
>>> 
 I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...
>>> Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
>>> airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Frederick Moir]

Randy, Mitch.
Ice Pilots NWT just started season 5.
 
Fred Moir

Lynn MA

Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Mitch Haley 
>To: Mercedes Discussion List  
>Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt
> 
>
>Randy Bennell wrote:
>>>
>> Any of you folks watch "Ice Pilots of the North" about Buffalo Airways 
>> out of Yellowknife?
>> 
>> It is amazing that they are still using aircraft that are 70 years old 
>> for commercial purposes in such a difficult and hostile environment.
>
>Did they ever do a 2nd season?
>
>Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

And to think of all the fun I used to have with a pack of matches

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 1:24 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> 
> Gerry Archer wrote:
>> I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
>> turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed 
>> around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that 
>> would work.
> 
> I thought our tractors were cool (they had serious motive power and could 
> climb virtually anything, very impressive for a wind up toy) but a steamjet 
> boat would really be something. I suppose CPSC would go berserk if you gave a 
> kid a candle and a book of matches.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

He gave us some of the cars, too. I seem to recall a white McClaren among 
others. Never quite figured the cars out. You had to set up either a straight 
line or have them run in a circle. If you didn't have perfectly flat ground 
they tended to bounce and fly around.

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Rich Thomas 
>  wrote:
> 
> I still have my Cox Navy trainer (I forget the number) in a box somewhere, 
> along with a coupla cars.
> 
> --R
> 
> 
>> On 11/11/13 11:22 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two cycle 
>> airplanes.
>> 
>> I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother got 
>> a Stuka dive bomber.
>> 
>> I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts separate 
>> and you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at worst.
>> 
>> My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and 
>> destroy it.
>> 
>> After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I 
>> finally convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.
>> 
>> We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
>> controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks 
>> and it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The 
>> results were not pretty.
>> 
>> Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
>> could do to recover with no controls.
>> 
>> And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a 
>> circle with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used to 
>> them...
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
 On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:
 
 On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:
 
 I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
 burner. Always wanted one of them.
>>> I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.
>>> 
>>> 
 I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...
>>> Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
>>> airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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[MBZ] steam boat

[Rick Hawkins Java]

Folks,

I had the little steamboat in the late 50's or early 60's

the one i had was pretty crummy. I remember my mother helping me run  
it in the tub since i wasn't allowed to play with matches


i had a couple of the stationary steam engines that i got second hand  
from other kids


the ones i had required that i re solder boilers, etc.

They worked and i may still have them at my father's house

and i flew wen mac and cox control line planes and we made air cars  
with the engines mounted on wood wheeled airboat like structures.


and i made and flew balsa and  tissue planes, mostly free flight with  
an eyedropper for a fuel tank

thanks,

xx rick
Rick Hawkins

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Re: [MBZ] OT One for Milt

[Mitch Haley]

Randy Bennell wrote:


Any of you folks watch "Ice Pilots of the North" about Buffalo Airways 
out of Yellowknife?


It is amazing that they are still using aircraft that are 70 years old 
for commercial purposes in such a difficult and hostile environment.


Did they ever do a 2nd season?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sexiest aircraft. was: One for Milt

[Mitch Haley]

G Mann wrote:

Original raced at Le-mans GT40 with full documents

Bill Thomas Cheeta

Original aluminum body AC Cobra with 289 Ford engine
 [Owned one, sold it upon enlistment in military, glove box was completely
full of speeding tickets]

1934 Packard V12, 3 window coupe




My brother had an orange Cheetah slot car, which was my favorite of all our slot 
cars.


Milt Brown's Apollo GT was pretty nice, especially considering it predated the 
XKE. (Thorndyke in the Disney movie The Love Bug was an Apollo dealer)


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Mitch Haley]

Gerry Archer wrote:
I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and 
sailed around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat 
like that would work.


I thought our tractors were cool (they had serious motive power and could climb 
virtually anything, very impressive for a wind up toy) but a steamjet boat would 
really be something. I suppose CPSC would go berserk if you gave a kid a candle 
and a book of matches.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Craig needs to get a job and get his butt out of N.M.

[Mitch Haley]

Craig wrote:

Yes, Craig is indeed trying to get a job and get out of NM. 


Good idea, if the cops there are conspiring to anally rape 63 year old white 
dudes.

Here's the US News version of the story:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/11/05/man-seeks-millions-after-nm-police-force-colonoscopy-in-drug-search

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Rich Thomas]

I still have my Cox Navy trainer (I forget the number) in a box 
somewhere, along with a coupla cars.


--R


On 11/11/13 11:22 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:

My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two cycle 
airplanes.

I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother got a 
Stuka dive bomber.

I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts separate and 
you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at worst.

My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and destroy 
it.

After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I finally 
convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.

We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks and 
it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The results 
were not pretty.

Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
could do to recover with no controls.

And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a circle 
with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used to them...

Dan


On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:


On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.



I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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[MBZ] OT: Frozen windows

[Craig]

  Frozen windows

Wife texts husband on a cold winter’s morning:

"Windows frozen, won't open."

Husband texts back:

"Gently pour some lukewarm water over it."

Wife texts back 5 minutes later:

"Computer really messed up now.”


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

My sister had a boyfriend who gave my brother and I his "old" Cox two cycle 
airplanes.

I took the PT-19 with the rubber bands that held it together. My brother got a 
Stuka dive bomber.

I flew the PT-19 all the time. Fly it into the ground? Boom! Parts separate and 
you just put them back together, maybe break a rubber band at worst.

My brother was afraid to fly the Stuka, fearing that he might crash and destroy 
it.

After he had watched me fly (and crash) the PT-19 for several months I finally 
convinced him to let me try and fly the Stuka.

We set it up, get it running, and off it goes into the air with me on the 
controls. About a minute into the flight, one of the control lines breaks and 
it lives up to it's namesake and dives directly into the ground. The results 
were not pretty.

Fortunately, my flying skills were not at fault, since there was nothing I 
could do to recover with no controls.

And just to clarify, these were the Cox brand planes that you flew in a circle 
with the control lines. Made you dizzy as heck until you got used to them...

Dan

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Craig  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:
>> 
>> I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
>> burner. Always wanted one of them.
> 
> I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.
> 
> 
>> I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...
> 
> Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
> airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

We had some of those, too.

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 9:57 AM, WILTON  wrote:
> 
> What?  Y'all had store-bought toys?
> 
> My tractor was made from a wood sewing thread spool, a piece of crayon, a 
> stick and a rubber band cut from a discarded inner tube or a rarely "found" 
> store-bought rubber band.  My car or truck was a block of wood, complemented 
> by perfect vocal sound effects.  My boat was a piece of pine bark.  My horse 
> was a tobacco stick - that's a stick on which green leaves of tobacco are 
> strung with "tobacco twine" to facilitate hanging the leaves in the 
> drying/curing barn.  My "six" shooter was my right hand  with index finger 
> extended to form the "barrel" and thumb up to form the "hammer," also 
> complemented by perfect vocal sound effects.
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess
> 
> 
>> Wow, what a trip back in time!
>> 
>> I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
>> years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> 
 I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels 
 that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.
 Never get that past the regulators today.
>>> 
>>> I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
>>> Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
>>> Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so hard 
>>> he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
>>> crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that 
>>> went the same distance in a couple of seconds.
>>> 
>>> Sis had a green one like this:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/390694976595
>>> 
>>> Mine was silver:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/231092315598
>>> 
>>> Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Craig]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:24:21 -0500 "Gerry Archer"
 wrote:

> I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
> turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and
> sailed around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat
> like that would work.
> Gerry

Yes, we had two of them in the late '50s. I think ours used fuel pellets.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Craig]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:32:17 -0500 Dan Penoff  wrote:

> I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol
> burner. Always wanted one of them.

I had one. I think we used fuel pellets in it, too.


> I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Yup, and missiles and tanks, too. I also built balsa/plywood/fabric model
airplanes and flew them, both control-line and R/C types.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[WILTON]

Yep; a pity we have come to such.

Wilt

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess


You could be arrested, expelled from school, and put in jail for doing 
that today.  Even if you are 6 years old.  You are a terrorist.


--R


On 11/11/13 9:57 AM, WILTON wrote:
My "six" shooter was my right hand  with index finger extended to form 
the "barrel" and thumb up to form the "hammer," also complemented by 
perfect vocal sound effects. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Rich Thomas]

You could be arrested, expelled from school, and put in jail for doing 
that today.  Even if you are 6 years old.  You are a terrorist.


--R


On 11/11/13 9:57 AM, WILTON wrote:
My "six" shooter was my right hand  with index finger extended to form 
the "barrel" and thumb up to form the "hammer," also complemented by 
perfect vocal sound effects. 



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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[WILTON]

I didn't have one, but I played with a friend once who had one - no bathtub, 
though.  We played with it in a galvanized wash/laundry tub.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Gerry Archer" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess


I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed 
around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that 
would work.

Gerry


From: "Dan Penoff" 

Wow, what a trip back in time!
I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.



Dan


On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

Dan Penoff wrote:

I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels 
that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.

Never get that past the regulators today.


I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so 
hard he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that 
went the same distance in a couple of seconds.


Sis had a green one like this:
http://search.ebay.com/390694976595

Mine was silver:
http://search.ebay.com/231092315598

Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.

Mitch.

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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6824 - Release Date: 11/10/13




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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[WILTON]

What?  Y'all had store-bought toys?

My tractor was made from a wood sewing thread spool, a piece of crayon, a 
stick and a rubber band cut from a discarded inner tube or a rarely "found" 
store-bought rubber band.  My car or truck was a block of wood, complemented 
by perfect vocal sound effects.  My boat was a piece of pine bark.  My horse 
was a tobacco stick - that's a stick on which green leaves of tobacco are 
strung with "tobacco twine" to facilitate hanging the leaves in the 
drying/curing barn.  My "six" shooter was my right hand  with index finger 
extended to form the "barrel" and thumb up to form the "hammer," also 
complemented by perfect vocal sound effects.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess



Wow, what a trip back in time!

I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.


Dan


On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

Dan Penoff wrote:

I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels 
that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.

Never get that past the regulators today.


I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so hard 
he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that 
went the same distance in a couple of seconds.


Sis had a green one like this:
http://search.ebay.com/390694976595

Mine was silver:
http://search.ebay.com/231092315598

Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

I do recall the little stationary steam engines that ran off an alcohol burner. 
Always wanted one of them.

I'll bet a lot of people here built models. I built a lot of planes...

Dan

> On Nov 11, 2013, at 8:24 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:
> 
> I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
> turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed 
> around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that 
> would work.
> Gerry
> 
> 
> From: "Dan Penoff" 
>> Wow, what a trip back in time!
>> I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
>> years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.
> 
>> Dan
>> 
>>> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> 
 I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels 
 that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.
 Never get that past the regulators today.
>>> 
>>> I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
>>> Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
>>> Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so hard 
>>> he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
>>> crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that 
>>> went the same distance in a couple of seconds.
>>> 
>>> Sis had a green one like this:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/390694976595
>>> 
>>> Mine was silver:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/231092315598
>>> 
>>> Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> 
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>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6824 - Release Date: 11/10/13
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Gerry Archer]

I'll bet that no one had a little boat with a candle in the middle that 
turned water into steam, put-putted like a V-1 reaction motor, and sailed 
around the bathtub.  Sometimes wondered if a people-sized boat like that 
would work.

Gerry


From: "Dan Penoff" 

Wow, what a trip back in time!
I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the 
years that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.



Dan


On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

Dan Penoff wrote:

I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels 
that spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.

Never get that past the regulators today.


I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so hard 
he stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a 
crawler/tractor that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that 
went the same distance in a couple of seconds.


Sis had a green one like this:
http://search.ebay.com/390694976595

Mine was silver:
http://search.ebay.com/231092315598

Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.

Mitch.

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Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3629/6824 - Release Date: 11/10/13




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Re: [MBZ] OT - a mess

[Dan Penoff]

Wow, what a trip back in time!

I seem to recall mine being yellow with green trim. Strange, as over the years 
that's one toy I explicitly recall as a Christmas gift.

Dan

> On Nov 10, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:
> 
> Dan Penoff wrote:
> 
>> I had a wind up tractor with rubber treads.  It had one of those wheels that 
>> spun against a flint and made sparks out the exhaust.
>> Never get that past the regulators today.
> 
> I had one of those, and my sister did too. Think they were made by Marx.
> Also had a little wind up model railroad set with the spark feature.
> Some visiting twerp thought my tractor was too slow and shoved it so hard he 
> stripped out the speed regulating gears. Turned it from a crawler/tractor 
> that would run minutes on a winding into a dragster that went the same 
> distance in a couple of seconds.
> 
> Sis had a green one like this:
> http://search.ebay.com/390694976595
> 
> Mine was silver:
> http://search.ebay.com/231092315598
> 
> Both of the ebay ones are missing the tracks and the exhaust stack.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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