Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
--R wrote: he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. I believe that that program is operating correctly and successfully - if I am to believe the news stories. Along with anyone here, we have heard for months that the money is going to scoundrels who squandered their monies for years. The line I heard in the news last week was that the TARP money is not going to the wall street banks who are in the news and have squandered monies of investors, but that the money is going to the local banks that are thriving even in today's economy - that makes sense in a capitalist monetary system, really. The money comes to them at lower rates than they can loan it back out and they are cleaning up. These are the local and regional rural and small suburban banks, I believe. I know about as much about this money fiasco as I do about jabba's Reliant - but the rationale sounded reasonable. I am not fully sure I can accept what I heard, but if this news story is anywhere close to true - I may have a renewed faith in the system of government that is failing before my very eyes. The rest of the Gregory J Knox letter is quite nicely written and expresses things quite nicely. Then again, I believe all sorts of lies every day from all the news media... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
GMAC became a bank the other day to get TARP money. American Express became a bank to get TARP money. This is to offset all the defaulted loans and credit cards they were so happy to give out to any and everyone. I want to become a bank to get TARP money (just a billion or two, not much). We are all being fleeced big time. --R Mountain Man wrote: --R wrote: he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. I believe that that program is operating correctly and successfully - if I am to believe the news stories. Along with anyone here, we have heard for months that the money is going to scoundrels who squandered their monies for years. The line I heard in the news last week was that the TARP money is not going to the wall street banks who are in the news and have squandered monies of investors, but that the money is going to the local banks that are thriving even in today's economy - that makes sense in a capitalist monetary system, really. The money comes to them at lower rates than they can loan it back out and they are cleaning up. These are the local and regional rural and small suburban banks, I believe. I know about as much about this money fiasco as I do about jabba's Reliant - but the rationale sounded reasonable. I am not fully sure I can accept what I heard, but if this news story is anywhere close to true - I may have a renewed faith in the system of government that is failing before my very eyes. The rest of the Gregory J Knox letter is quite nicely written and expresses things quite nicely. Then again, I believe all sorts of lies every day from all the news media... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20081229/597916d0/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
My brother works for a small midwestern bank that is very well capitalized due to its conservative lending and investment practices. He related this to me when we were chatting over the holidays: The government is offering TARP funds to all banks. They were told that if they participated in the program that the bank examiners would be very lenient when reviewing their future lending and banking practices. Of course, if they participate in TARP the Fed gets an ownership stake in the bank in the form of preferred stock, too. He said it was quite a contentious issue for them, as they didn't want to participate, and didn't need to, but felt that if they didn't that there would be negative effects from bank examiners and ultimately the federal government. So they signed on, albeit grudgingly. --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President. To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 11:15 AM -Inline Attachment Follows- --R wrote: he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. I believe that that program is operating correctly and successfully - if I am to believe the news stories. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
Can't be true under the new Obama administration -- all will be sweetness and light, milk and honey, open and honest and transparent, and gosh darn it, people will like them! --R LWB250 wrote: My brother works for a small midwestern bank that is very well capitalized due to its conservative lending and investment practices. He related this to me when we were chatting over the holidays: The government is offering TARP funds to all banks. They were told that if they participated in the program that the bank examiners would be very lenient when reviewing their future lending and banking practices. Of course, if they participate in TARP the Fed gets an ownership stake in the bank in the form of preferred stock, too. He said it was quite a contentious issue for them, as they didn't want to participate, and didn't need to, but felt that if they didn't that there would be negative effects from bank examiners and ultimately the federal government. So they signed on, albeit grudgingly. --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote: From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President. To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 11:15 AM -Inline Attachment Follows- --R wrote: he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. I believe that that program is operating correctly and successfully - if I am to believe the news stories. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20081229/ffcc7b4b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
--R wrote: Can't be true under the new Obama administration -- all will be sweetness and light, milk and honey, open and honest and transparent, and gosh darn it, people will like them! Lie-ing, thieving, sacks of crap - that's all. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
BZZT, WRONG, topic for banned lite, not here. Rich Thomas wrote: Can't be true under the new Obama administration -- all will be sweetness and light, milk and honey, open and honest and transparent, and gosh darn it, people will like them! --R -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 89 300E, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D x2, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
Seems to be the typical small business owner mantra. Look how efficiently I can run my operation, why can't big business be like me? The workers are overpaid, blah blah blah, I pay mine minimum wage, blah blah blah, a pizza lunch is their Christmas bonus. Unions are evil, blah blah blah, get rid of them so I can get away with paying the workers even less and cut other entitlements. Workers should all live in slums and eat dog food, whilst I have a big house, big cars, a couple of holiday homes and eat real nice because I am the boss and I deserve a good quality of life. The workers don't deserve much because they are lazy, uneducated slobs, who haven't got the motivation or skills to get ahead and therefore should suffer Heard it all before and the sad thing is when these people started out as workers their attitude was not like this. Betcha boots this individual was making good coin to enable him to save up and start a small business. Either that or he was born into the business, which makes his attitude even worse. Sure there is a fair bit of bloat in the auto industry but it goes all the way to the top and why exactly should a exec get a truckload of money and perks and an assembly line worker get bugger all? Ahh that's right Johnny Whitecollar was lucky enough to be able to get a college education, whilst Billy Bluecollar drew the short straw and now has to suffer, in a mundane, low paying job, with no prospect of ever being able to save up money to be able to start a small business/buy a house/pay for a decent education for his kids (if he can afford to have kids that is). Anyway perhaps it is time to shut down the US auto industry and import all the vehicles from low wage countries, perhaps then Mr Knox will be happy because there won't be any need for a greedy auto union, bleeding the country dry. However Mr Knox may find that he will go bankrupt because of the flow on effect, which may not be a bad thing, perhaps working a low wage, mundane job will make him reconsider the role of unions and so on. Sure the bailout sucks but what are the alternatives? Why should banks/et al get handouts and the auto industry has to suffer the consequences of the mistakes of the financial sector. If anything the auto industry should get the cash and the banks can go stuff themselves. Sure the car business has it's problems but did it cause the GFC by overpaying and under producing? Perhaps Mr Knox could turn his genius to the real culprits in this mess, instead of attacking a soft target. Hendrik who thinks that unions are a necessary evil because there are evil bosses Rich Thomas wrote: There was lots of discussion on this topic a coupla weeks ago, I got this from someone else, seems a point/counterpoint. --R A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President. ~~ Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis..As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices.. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America ~~~ From Gregory Knox, In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new messiah to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep living the dream... The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded laborers without paying the price for these atrocities...and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as
[MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
There was lots of discussion on this topic a coupla weeks ago, I got this from someone else, seems a point/counterpoint. --R A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President. ~~ Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis..As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices.. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America ~~~ From Gregory Knox, In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new messiah to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep living the dream... The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded laborers without paying the price for these atrocities...and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not... You're right -- it's not JUST management...how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass...so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time...for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics...for putting out too many parts on a shift...and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: over the last few years ...we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day... and something else would happen...where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient ones would pop up... that is how a free market system works...it does work...if we would let it work... But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work -- that we need the government to step in and save us...save us, hell -- we're nationalizing...and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening...but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams...yeah -- THAT'S important... Does it occur to ANYONE that the competition has been producing vehicles EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?...How can that be??? Let's see...Fuel efficient...Listening to customers...Investing in the proper
Re: [MBZ] OT A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President.
So, why wasn't Gregory Knox running for office? On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: There was lots of discussion on this topic a coupla weeks ago, I got this from someone else, seems a point/counterpoint. --R A letter from GM and a response from an industry vendor's President. ~~ Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis..As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices.. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America ~~~ From Gregory Knox, In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new messiah to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep living the dream... The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded laborers without paying the price for these atrocities...and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not... You're right -- it's not JUST management...how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass...so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time...for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics...for putting out too many parts on a shift...and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: over the last few years ...we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades.. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of bailout money. Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day... and something else would happen...where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient ones would pop up... that is how a free market system works...it does work...if we would let it work... But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work -- that we need the government to step in and save us...save us, hell -- we're nationalizing...and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening...but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams...yeah -- THAT'S important... Does it occur to ANYONE that the competition has been producing vehicles
