Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
I think all three missile types would guide on that target and their warheads would function making multiple holes in the Hellcat. The unknown is the vulnerability of the Hellcat. I suspect the pilot was the largest critical thing in that aircraft, which is not a factor here. So it depends on the size, location, and shielding of things like fuel lines/tanks, control cables, etc. as well as fire suppression. Being air-cooled eliminates a liquid cooling system, which is normally a big vulnerability. Those radial air-cooled engines are reputed to function even after severe battle damage but I don't know how factual that really is. In reality, a modern fighter would probably use the 20mm gun, mainly to ensure they were shooting at the right thing (inside visual range), and that would be very effective (especially with a non-maneuvering target). Current 20mm ammo functions (detonates) after it has passed several inches inside the skin of the target. In defense of the 2.75 FFAM, that shotgun cluster tactic was intended for manned intercontinental bombers, which were quite large and slow in those days. A single hit, almost anywhere on the target, would ruin target crew's day. > -Original Message- > From: M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes > Yes, but how well could they do against an unmanned Hellcat drone? > > My money's on the Grumman. ;D > > -MMM- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
And Joe Kennedy was killed by a B-24 "drone" in about '44. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Curly McLain via Mercedes" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Cc: "Curly McLain" <126die...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale >Mitch wrote: On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over southern California and missed. Drone? Radio controlled drone? 60 years ago? ...ah... the age of technology. Too bad drones today are not as reliable, or something... mao When did Mitch write that? I have not seen anything. Actually, they flew RC B-29s through the 1946 atomic explosions at Bikini atoll. (What are now called drones) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Yes, but how well could they do against an unmanned Hellcat drone? My money's on the Grumman. ;D -MMM- On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Current F-14/15/16/18 US fighters have internal 20mm guns plus three types > of guided air-to-air missiles: AIM-9 short-range heat-seeking missiles, > AIM-7 long-range semi-active radar-guided missiles, and AMRAAM medium-range > multi-mode radar/inertial missiles. There are several variants of each of > these and each type aircraft has multiple allowable load configurations. > All current air-to-air missiles are orders-of magnitude more capable than > any unguided 2.75 incher. > > > -Original Message- > > From: Max Dillon via Mercedes > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:33 AM > > > > I think all current fighters have both guns and missiles? I know the > F/A-18 has > > both. > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Current F-14/15/16/18 US fighters have internal 20mm guns plus three types of guided air-to-air missiles: AIM-9 short-range heat-seeking missiles, AIM-7 long-range semi-active radar-guided missiles, and AMRAAM medium-range multi-mode radar/inertial missiles. There are several variants of each of these and each type aircraft has multiple allowable load configurations. All current air-to-air missiles are orders-of magnitude more capable than any unguided 2.75 incher. > -Original Message- > From: Max Dillon via Mercedes > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 12:33 AM > > I think all current fighters have both guns and missiles? I know the F/A-18 > has > both. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
I think all current fighters have both guns and missiles? I know the F/A-18 has both. F-4 Phantom was another "missiles only" fighter, and I think engagements in Mig alley convinced fighter designers that missiles are nice, but guns are required. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 17, 2015 12:22:54 AM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: > > >> On August 16, 2015 at 2:47 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes > >> wrote: >> >> >> Sounds like the drones were abut as reliable as the rockets they >attempted to >> shoot it down with… > >Imagine if it were a manned, armed MiG taking evasive action on its way >to >attack something important. >That's what those two fighter pilots were on standby for, isn't it? > >Mitch. > >___ >http://www.okiebenz.com > >To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
> On August 16, 2015 at 2:47 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > > Sounds like the drones were abut as reliable as the rockets they attempted to > shoot it down with… Imagine if it were a manned, armed MiG taking evasive action on its way to attack something important. That's what those two fighter pilots were on standby for, isn't it? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Mitch wrote: On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over southern California and missed. Drone? Radio controlled drone? 60 years ago? ...ah... the age of technology. Too bad drones today are not as reliable, or something... mao When did Mitch write that? I have not seen anything. Actually, they flew RC B-29s through the 1946 atomic explosions at Bikini atoll. (What are now called drones) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Folding-fin rockets are notoriously inaccurate. Unless all fins deploy at precisely the same time (yeah, right) the non-symmetrical initial fin configuration will steer the rocket off course. Definitely the wrong weapon for this job but I guess that's what was available on no-notice. All target aircraft I worked with (1970s and later) had some type of flight termination system, some of these activated automatically if the command signal was lost for a sufficient period of time. When the Japanese attacked Hawaii, almost all civilian damage on the ground was caused by "friendly" anti-aircraft shells. The older 20mm high explosive bullets armed as they spun from rifling going as they went down the barrel, and stayed armed. The newer 20mm HE stuff is only armed while it is still spinning. > -Original Message- > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of > Mitch Haley via Mercedes > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 9:57 AM > To: Mercedes List > Cc: Mitch Haley > Subject: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale > > On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over > southern California and missed. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmdale > > http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/pollack0115battleofpalmdale.htm > > http://articles.latimes.com/2005/sep/11/local/me-then11 > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Jindivik anyone? Fred Moir.Lynn MA.Diesel preferred. > Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 13:44:08 -0500 > To: mi...@mitchellhaley.com; mercedes@okiebenz.com > Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale > From: mercedes@okiebenz.com > CC: maontin@gmail.com > > Mitch wrote: > > On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over > > southern > > California and missed. > > Drone? > Radio controlled drone? > 60 years ago? > ...ah... the age of technology. > Too bad drones today are not as reliable, or something... > mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Sounds like the drones were abut as reliable as the rockets they attempted to shoot it down with… Dan > On Aug 16, 2015, at 2:44 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes > wrote: > > Mitch wrote: >> On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over >> southern >> California and missed. > > Drone? > Radio controlled drone? > 60 years ago? > ...ah... the age of technology. > Too bad drones today are not as reliable, or something... > mao > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
Mitch wrote: > On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over southern > California and missed. Drone? Radio controlled drone? 60 years ago? ...ah... the age of technology. Too bad drones today are not as reliable, or something... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] The Battle of Palmdale
On August 16, 1956 Air Force fighters attacked a runaway Hellcat over southern California and missed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmdale http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistory/pollack0115battleofpalmdale.htm http://articles.latimes.com/2005/sep/11/local/me-then11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
