Re: [MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
Marshall: The Volvo had 150,000 miles on it when I got it (now has 220,000 or so), and I believe the turbo was shot when I got it. Certainly the new one is MUCH louder, unlike my Benz turbo. The Benz was used, and was smoking when purchased, but being a W140 I don't know if it had the trap or not. Using non-synthetic oil is rough on turbos -- you MUST fully cool them after driving or the oil cokes on the bearings eventually, and they die. The seals can also fail with good bearings in place, like everything else they do wear. Probably the most common cause of failure, though, is Interstate Highway rest stops -- pull a long grade at 80, pull in, shut the car off, fry the turbo. I let mine idle a while any time I get off the Interstate. Note that sitting at a stop light counts as idle time Chunks of ceramic matrix flying around in the turbine will shorten life dramatically -- they chip the turbine blades and unbalance the turbo, and the bearings go. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
Peter Frederick wrote: Marshall: The Volvo had 150,000 miles on it when I got it (now has 220,000 or so), and I believe the turbo was shot when I got it. Certainly the new one is MUCH louder, unlike my Benz turbo. The Benz was used, and was smoking when purchased, but being a W140 I don't know if it had the trap or not. Using non-synthetic oil is rough on turbos -- you MUST fully cool them after driving or the oil cokes on the bearings eventually, and they die. The seals can also fail with good bearings in place, like everything else they do wear. Probably the most common cause of failure, though, is Interstate Highway rest stops -- pull a long grade at 80, pull in, shut the car off, fry the turbo. I let mine idle a while any time I get off the Interstate. Note that sitting at a stop light counts as idle time Chunks of ceramic matrix flying around in the turbine will shorten life dramatically -- they chip the turbine blades and unbalance the turbo, and the bearings go. I quickly learned to forget EVERYTHING I knew about gasoline engine turbos. Mercedes autodiesel turbos can be run quite reliably with conventional oil because Mercedes doesn't allow the turbo to get really hot (except where they goofed in an engine with a trap oxidizer that's starting to plug) unless you alter the factory setting or don't change the oil. Still, I prefer group IV+ synthetics since they actually lubricate a little better! The only Mercedes with traps (that I know of) were the '85-86 3 liter diesel cars that met California standards and all of the '87 3 liter diesels (Fed and CA). The '90s 3+ liter Mercedes diesels used an oxidation CAT. In OM60x engined cars without traps the turbos have been as reliable as the the turbos in 617.95 engined cars. You CAN destroy them but 95+% last the life of the engine (and most of the failures come after somebody tries to make the turbo work BETTER). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
Peter Frederick wrote: Marshall: I know of two turbos that have failed in exactly that fashion, one on my car and one on someone else's. Both showed serious lack of boost at low speed cold and both showed excessive oil consumption. One (the MB one) blew blue smoke on acceleration. My volvo TD didn't, but the exhaust was full of coked oil and actually caught fire after the turbo was replaced (quite an experience, having burning carbon blow out the exhaust!). The failure is not primarily a seal failure, it's a bearing failure. They do wear out eventually, and bad bearings usually result in seal failure before the turbo stops working altogether. I understand that the failure is a bearing failure, but every one I know of seems to follow trap problems (dumping ceramic particles into the turbo). 602 turbos and the ones from '90s 603 engines (that don't have traps) just don't begin to fail 'til they have 400-500kmi on them (unless you NEVER change the oil). These later turbo are just as trouble free as the ones on OM617.95 engines were (and they almost never failed unless you messed with them). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
Marshall: I know of two turbos that have failed in exactly that fashion, one on my car and one on someone else's. Both showed serious lack of boost at low speed cold and both showed excessive oil consumption. One (the MB one) blew blue smoke on acceleration. My volvo TD didn't, but the exhaust was full of coked oil and actually caught fire after the turbo was replaced (quite an experience, having burning carbon blow out the exhaust!). The failure is not primarily a seal failure, it's a bearing failure. They do wear out eventually, and bad bearings usually result in seal failure before the turbo stops working altogether. Peter
[MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
I just got done using my (new to me) Motometer compression tester, and here are the results --shame on me, this test was not done with a fully warmed engine :( #1 ~335 #2 ~325 #3 ~350 #4 ~325 #5 ~345 #6 ~350 These numbers seem a bit low, but don't appear to reveal any serious inter-cylinder variance issues or signs of chain vault blowout as the obvious source of my blue smokescreen. Any thoughts? On 11/29/05, Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My OM603 has just now started to smoke (blue) so much so, that I think I'll be parking her for some time. This started with excessive smoking at startup, then progressed to a little puff of blue upon acceleration and is now emitting a minor cloud on acceleration and at idle. Methinks valve stem seals, a headgasket and turbo seals are in order...or, I have a bent rod, or the head is toasty, or all of the above. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler (211k) currently resting '84 300D (205k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (186K)
Re: [MBZ] Was: Turbo seal? Now OM603 compression test
Your turbo is shot, get it fixed. It's leaking oil into the exhaust side, and it burns off when you accelerate. It will eventually make such a smokescreen you will get ticketed for excessive smoke, but the engine will run fine. Your compression is a normal (lower than new, considerably above repair limit), so any oil that goes down the intake will burn completely unless you are burning more than three or four quarts to a tank of fuel. Oil in the exhaust, on the other hand. always burns badly and makes blue smoke. Oily residue in the tailpipe is diagnostic. You may want to check for excessive blowby (from the valve guides), but most likely it's a blown turbo. This failure is pretty commonly mistaken for low compression due to bad rods on the 603, especially the 3.5L version. Turbo is pretty cheap. Peter
