Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Wow, those look like factory manual pictures of working on new cars. Sure must be nice to live where cad plating never goes away, and steel never rusts and the oil never leaks off of old Diesels and turns everything black! All my 20 yr old Diesels have had no cad plating since the spring after they moved here from warmer climes. I know, I am discounting the time and effort Matthieu spent cleaning ahead of time. No offense meant Matt, I am just jealous of cars that look so good inside and under! But the Midwestern climate eats Cadmium. Matt does wonderful work! Thanks for showing us Matt! At 04:03 PM 9/6/2007, you wrote: Oops seems the links got chopped. Here are the corrected links: http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay3/index.htm On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:01 PM, Mathieu J. Cama wrote: For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
You are correct. With automatics I often refer to the flex plate as flywheel. Incorrect, I know, just one of my quirks. Sorry for the confusion. On Sep 7, 2007, at 9:45 PM, OK Don wrote: I was responding to Mathieu's statement: First off the flywheel will require balancing to match that of the flex plate on the m617. I also thought that the flex plate would be insignificant, which is why I asked for clarification. On 9/7/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flywheel, not flex plate. The flex plate is pretty much insignificant, but a Benz flywheel is not. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
It seems than at Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:33:16 -0400, Mathieu wrote: Curt, See my pm to you. Private message??!!!?? What about all the rest of us that want to learn too? -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Craig, Just because you got lucky does not mean that all m617s will not require the flywheel to be match balanced. Each motor is different and MUST be handled on a case by case basis. A good machinist typically charges under $150 to match the balancing, sometimes even far less than that. Is the integrity of your main bearings and the other internals really worth scrimping by such a small amount? The old saying penny wise and pound foolish seems to apply here. Mathieu On Sep 7, 2007, at 12:43 AM, Craig McCluskey wrote: On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 18:35:05 -0400 Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kaleb, You will have a few obstacles to overcome. First off the flywheel will require balancing to match that of the flex plate on the m617. Having done this myself, I can say this is not really necessary. Craig --- Craig McCluskey Present: 1982 240D/3.0 (Euro 1984 617.912 engine, 4-speed) 241 kmi Past: 1964 190Dc 1972 220D/8 1972 220/8 1987 190E/2.3 /\ \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN Friends don't send friends X AGAINST HTML MAIL HTML email. / \ AND POSTINGS http://www.fred.net/tds/longrange.html http://pruffle.mit.edu/~ccarter/I_do_not_use_microsoft.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
paying me good money to spend several days at your house Luther On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:18:07 -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin, work [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a manual 240D with a I think a dead cylinder. I have a good euro 5 cyl engine which is auto. What would it take to drop the euro engine in place the 4 cylinder? --- Kaleb C. Striplin Cox Auto Trader 730 FSBO Supervisor -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (166 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Thats cool. For some perverse reason I'm interested in a manual shift 3.0l. My 240D was only slightly underpowered for where I live, I figure a 3.0 would be plenty and for some perverse reason I like rowing the trans myself. Seems like autoboxes are always doing something thats not quite the way I'd like it... How much do you charge for a conversion like this? Did the customer want you to go over the 617 and trans before you put it in? I sure would. Figure to replace the main seals at least while its out. It'd stink to get it in there and develop a leak... -Curt Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:03:21 -0400 From: Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Oops seems the links got chopped. Here are the corrected links: http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay3/index.htm On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:01 PM, Mathieu J. Cama wrote: For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com - Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Curt, See my pm to you. Mathieu On Sep 7, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: Thats cool. For some perverse reason I'm interested in a manual shift 3.0l. My 240D was only slightly underpowered for where I live, I figure a 3.0 would be plenty and for some perverse reason I like rowing the trans myself. Seems like autoboxes are always doing something thats not quite the way I'd like it... How much do you charge for a conversion like this? Did the customer want you to go over the 617 and trans before you put it in? I sure would. Figure to replace the main seals at least while its out. It'd stink to get it in there and develop a leak... -Curt Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 17:03:21 -0400 From: Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Oops seems the links got chopped. Here are the corrected links: http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay3/index.htm On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:01 PM, Mathieu J. Cama wrote: For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com - Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Are the flex plates on the auto 617s realy balanced with the crank, etc.? Doesn't seem like it has that much mass, and would be close to balanced out of the box. Now I konw that when I had a V8 balanced in the early '70s, they wanted EVERYTHING that was attached to the crank. The couple of flex plates that I've handled showed no signs of having been balanced - though the sample is only three or four. I did swap a good auto 615 engine into a manual 115 once - worried about balancing the flywheel to the new engine (I think the manual even said to do it), but never saw or felt any vibration nor the effects of same in the next 150,000 miles. The chassis rusted away first. On 9/7/07, Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig, Just because you got lucky does not mean that all m617s will not require the flywheel to be match balanced. Each motor is different and MUST be handled on a case by case basis. A good machinist typically charges under $150 to match the balancing, sometimes even far less than that. Is the integrity of your main bearings and the other internals really worth scrimping by such a small amount? The old saying penny wise and pound foolish seems to apply here. Mathieu -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Flywheel, not flex plate. The flex plate is pretty much insignificant, but a Benz flywheel is not. Peter On Sep 7, 2007, at 7:36 PM, OK Don wrote: Are the flex plates on the auto 617s realy balanced with the crank, etc.? Doesn't seem like it has that much mass, and would be close to balanced out of the box. Now I konw that when I had a V8 balanced in the early '70s, they wanted EVERYTHING that was attached to the crank. The couple of flex plates that I've handled showed no signs of having been balanced - though the sample is only three or four. I did swap a good auto 615 engine into a manual 115 once - worried about balancing the flywheel to the new engine (I think the manual even said to do it), but never saw or felt any vibration nor the effects of same in the next 150,000 miles. The chassis rusted away first. On 9/7/07, Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig, Just because you got lucky does not mean that all m617s will not require the flywheel to be match balanced. Each motor is different and MUST be handled on a case by case basis. A good machinist typically charges under $150 to match the balancing, sometimes even far less than that. Is the integrity of your main bearings and the other internals really worth scrimping by such a small amount? The old saying penny wise and pound foolish seems to apply here. Mathieu -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
I was responding to Mathieu's statement: First off the flywheel will require balancing to match that of the flex plate on the m617. I also thought that the flex plate would be insignificant, which is why I asked for clarification. On 9/7/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Flywheel, not flex plate. The flex plate is pretty much insignificant, but a Benz flywheel is not. Peter On Sep 7, 2007, at 7:36 PM, OK Don wrote: Are the flex plates on the auto 617s realy balanced with the crank, etc.? Doesn't seem like it has that much mass, and would be close to balanced out of the box. Now I konw that when I had a V8 balanced in the early '70s, they wanted EVERYTHING that was attached to the crank. The couple of flex plates that I've handled showed no signs of having been balanced - though the sample is only three or four. I did swap a good auto 615 engine into a manual 115 once - worried about balancing the flywheel to the new engine (I think the manual even said to do it), but never saw or felt any vibration nor the effects of same in the next 150,000 miles. The chassis rusted away first. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Oops seems the links got chopped. Here are the corrected links: http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay3/index.htm On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:01 PM, Mathieu J. Cama wrote: For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
I have a manual 240D with a I think a dead cylinder. I have a good euro 5 cyl engine which is auto. What would it take to drop the euro engine in place the 4 cylinder? --- Kaleb C. Striplin Cox Auto Trader 730 FSBO Supervisor - Original Message - From: Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion Oops seems the links got chopped. Here are the corrected links: http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/HeitzsoDay3/index.htm On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:01 PM, Mathieu J. Cama wrote: For those of you who may be interested, I just finished converting a w123 240d to a 240d 3.0. The m617 used was a Euro-spec motor originally set up for manual transmission (617.912.10.xx) and the chassis was a manual trans car thus making it a simple conversion. The original 240d motor threw what seems to be a wrist pin of all things after 289k miles (will know more once I tear it down). The project took three days from start to finish and came out seemlessly. This is the second of these that I have done and I love the end result. Really transforms the car! Here are photos of the conversion. http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day1/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day2/index.htm http://www.oldworldauto.com/Images/H...Day3/index.htm Mathieu www.oldworldauto.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
Kaleb, You will have a few obstacles to overcome. First off the flywheel will require balancing to match that of the flex plate on the m617. The m616 had neutral balanced flywheels where-as the m617's flywheel was balanced with the crank at the factory and is not necessarily neutral balanced. See the write-up on mbdiesel.net from when John Ervine and I converted his w123 wagon to a manual transmission last year. The next obstacle will be the driveshaft. You could have the 240d's shortened and re-balanced to make this work. Other option is to source the proper length driveshaft. Next off will be the shifter linkages. Obtain the proper ones for your gearbox. They are different for the older cast iron and the late production aluminum gearboxes. Lastly you need to obtain the proper transmission support cross-member. Digging in the EPC will reveal what will work. Aside from that it is all plug and play as you will have all other needed bits in your 5 cylinder w123 assuming both are of the same vintage. Keep in mind pre-79 cars will have older loop glow plugs, york compressor, etc all which will complicate things if your m617 is of later vintage (pencil glows, R4 compressor). Mathieu On Sep 6, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin, work wrote: I have a manual 240D with a I think a dead cylinder. I have a good euro 5 cyl engine which is auto. What would it take to drop the euro engine in place the 4 cylinder? --- Kaleb C. Striplin Cox Auto Trader 730 FSBO Supervisor ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 240d 3.0 conversion
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 18:35:05 -0400 Mathieu J. Cama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kaleb, You will have a few obstacles to overcome. First off the flywheel will require balancing to match that of the flex plate on the m617. Having done this myself, I can say this is not really necessary. Craig --- Craig McCluskey Present: 1982 240D/3.0 (Euro 1984 617.912 engine, 4-speed) 241 kmi Past: 1964 190Dc 1972 220D/8 1972 220/8 1987 190E/2.3 /\ \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN Friends don't send friends X AGAINST HTML MAIL HTML email. / \ AND POSTINGS http://www.fred.net/tds/longrange.html http://pruffle.mit.edu/~ccarter/I_do_not_use_microsoft.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
