Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: Before taking that diagnosis stop the engine and feel the radiator behind the fan. It better not be cool, else the radiator is probably clogged and the fan is doing what it is supposed to. The heat from the radiator has to heat up the clutch first before it'll couple. Yes, I personally have wasted money on a new fan clutch when it was not the problem, and they're not cheap enough to not care. Good call, will endeavor to provoke it again and check. Thanks! -Tim though hopefully not at the Babies-R-Us, that is a crazy store ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
On Jun 6, 2011 9:18 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: I thought it was detergent first, then acid. If there's oil in the coolant system, then yes. I think sludge or similar was mentioned, but he figured the actual oil was already in the drain pan. Yes, in retrospect I decided there wasn't oil in the coolant. I did an acid flush, the only shortcuts were not removing the thermostat (I just didn't count the warmup time) and filling/running/flushing with water several times, rather than try to rig up a hose nib. The flush did seem to get stuff out, and the water flushes were clean. Until a couple days ago the weather has been 90F or below for the trip home, and the car has stayed below 100C. However, that day it was 95F+, and at the end of the trip I was about 100C when I stopped outside the house; in 5 more minutes of high idling (trying to simulate traffic) I hit 110C. In general, it seems like it the car always around 80C until I get off the highway, then it warms up to 90 or 100C within a few hundred yards after, even if I'm going 45MPH. Finally it cools down after 4-5 miles at 30MPH, or warms up if I am 30MPH during that period. I recall from the FSM there is some secondary path that opens at 100C, and I saw no evidence of that on my temperature gauge. From this I infer I need a thermostat... and since I have to make an order, I would like to get anything else I will probably need at the same time. There are scads of gas 126s in the local junkyard, so I should be set on electric fans and temperature sensors. - How likely is it that an arbitrary viscous fan clutch will be good? Is there a way to field-test/inspect them off the car? Could I replace mine with my old OM616 fixed fan? Even though I passed the cardboard test, since the behavior varies a bit I wonder if I just got lucky; could the clutch work at low temperatures and fail at high? - The radiator looks like it is relatively new, which also would explain the green antifreeze. It seems to have clear air flow, and had lots of fluid flow with the hose when I was cleaning. IR thermometer doesn't show any obvious discrepancies though it is hard to get around the fan. Anything I'm missing that should make me suspect it? - That would leave just the water pump. I am wondering if maybe it's not pushing at a sufficient rate, but is that likely? I do not see any leaks but I guess it could fail internally. Of all the bits, this will be the most annoying to change, since - aside from the location - I will have to toss a gallon of the good coolant. :/ Thanks for any advice, -Tim also wants to fix the AC, but doesn't think that will help his overheat problems :) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote: with my old OM616 fixed fan? Even though I passed the cardboard test, since the behavior varies a bit I wonder if I just got lucky; could the clutch work at low temperatures and fail at high? The answer to this question is, yes. The car broke 100C by the time I got to the Babies-R-Us, and when I got out with my cardboard the fan was totally stopped (yes, engine was on). I tapped it and it started spinning, but obviously the clutch is dead, and I suspect the fan is rubbing on the housing or something too. Anyway I will take the bet this is my main problem, and just replace it and the thermostat soonest, fix the electric fan, and leave the poor water pump and radiator alone. Thanks for all the help! -Tim talk to you tomorrow, Dr. Bimby ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
The car broke 100C by the time I got to the Babies-R-Us, and when I got out with my cardboard the fan was totally stopped (yes, engine was on). I tapped it and it started spinning, but obviously the clutch is dead, and I suspect the fan is rubbing on the housing or something too. Before taking that diagnosis stop the engine and feel the radiator behind the fan. It better not be cool, else the radiator is probably clogged and the fan is doing what it is supposed to. The heat from the radiator has to heat up the clutch first before it'll couple. Yes, I personally have wasted money on a new fan clutch when it was not the problem, and they're not cheap enough to not care. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
Craig wrote: If you can locate any citric acid powder, flushing out the cooling system with that first would be a good idea. I thought it was detergent first, then acid. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
I thought it was detergent first, then acid. If there's oil in the coolant system, then yes. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
Jim Cathey wrote: I thought it was detergent first, then acid. If there's oil in the coolant system, then yes. I think sludge or similar was mentioned, but he figured the actual oil was already in the drain pan. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
Okay, so since the 300D is the daily driver for the week, I got coolant out of the SDL. Dumped radiator. Vague dull green, should have used a clean bucket so I'm not sure how much of the dirt was from the car - but ah! Everything else on this car was 100% by the book, was not expecting to see the green. Anyway that was clean enough, just dirt if anything. Then I pulled the drain from the block, using oil catch pan. Dumped into bucket, shocking amount of sludge. And oil! I am ashamed to admit that it took me more than 10 minutes to realize the oil was probably from my drain pan. :) Anyway, I don't have a resolution - will have to stop at the CarQuest to pick up some Zerex tomorrow - but I figured you all would get a kick out of it. And I am glad I drained all that green goop out, will let you know if it helps. Thanks, -Tim On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Peter Hertzing phertz...@gmail.com wrote: I have a question about the inlet - outlet temp testing. In theory - even if a significant drop is noted, (such as 20C), wouldn't a blocked radiator reduce the volume of water being cycled? So even with an effective water pump, the cooling system would be unable to keep up with the heat producd by the engine. The only accurate way to do the test is to mimic the conditions in which the car overheats. The best way I have found to measure the radiators effectivness is using the IR thermomter and splitting the radiator into 6 sections, and drawing it on a pice of paper. Then using the IR thermometer maping the temps. As discussed, you almost always find a cool spot. A small differential in temp will be greatly amplified when the engine is producing alot of heat. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Shouldn't matter once the car is moving... My '85's fan clutch didn't work at all and as long as it didn't sit still for a long time. -Curt Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 23:37:12 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... Message-ID: banlktimt6krpjcewn5kmxyfwy1vwgmm...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What about the fan clutch - have you checked it? On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm in a similar boat with my '84 190D. When I asked last week many folks suggested the radiator needs replacing. I haven't done any more troubleshooting since then as the car was with my Indy for a window regulator, I'll be picking it up tomorrow AM. The suggestion was that a radiator flush with citric acid couldn't hurt and was inexpensive in everything but time. I'll try it in a couple weeks. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
On Sun, 5 Jun 2011 20:21:34 -0400 Tim C bb...@crone.us wrote: Anyway, I don't have a resolution - will have to stop at the CarQuest to pick up some Zerex tomorrow - but I figured you all would get a kick out of it. Yup. Reminds us of things we have done ourselves. And don't want to do again, so the reminder is good. And I am glad I drained all that green goop out, will let you know if it helps. If you can locate any citric acid powder, flushing out the cooling system with that first would be a good idea. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
I'll preface this by saying that my approach to fixing overheating issues is not too far from replace parts from cheapest to most expensive until fixed. Sounds like you've eliminated the mechanical fan. Have you tested the electric fan(s)? That test is not too hard. Acid flush may help, next would be radiator or water pump. T-stat should be replaced every other coolant change. You could also try a new expansion tank cap. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Tim C Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 6:55 PM To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... I feel like a newbie asking such a question. But I am not sure where to go. I don't see any coolant loss. I also don't seem to have super-high pressures, and didn't see any bubbles, though I didn't put the pressure meter on it yet. I think that would eliminate head stuff (which is a #22, relatively new)? No AC in this car. The electric fan does not come on at 105, but it isn't that hot usually so I have left that alone for now. Big fan tears up cardboard even at 80C, so I guess the viscous coupling is okay? Engine will peg at 85C on the interstate, mostly, and does not gain or lose temperature at idle in the shade; it starts to heat up slowly at idle in the sun, and heats up very quickly on low grades at low speed. My IR thermometer agrees with the gauge. I have let it get to about 110C as a test, though it has only broken 100C once on the road - but summer is just starting. Heater brings temperature back down at reasonable rate. The radiator inlet and outlet are about 20C different. I do not know the history of the radiator but it looks fairly new. As mentioned, no missing coolant. No obvious air blockage. Sudden onset worries me, but that could just be ambient temperatures - still, I didn't have any problem at 80F a few weeks ago. Acid flush and a new thermostat? What am I missing? Thanks for any clues, -Tim Newbie Yes, this means all three vehicles need something ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
Shouldn't matter once the car is moving... My '85's fan clutch didn't work at all and as long as it didn't sit still for a long time. -Curt Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 23:37:12 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... Message-ID: banlktimt6krpjcewn5kmxyfwy1vwgmm...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What about the fan clutch - have you checked it? On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm in a similar boat with my '84 190D. When I asked last week many folks suggested the radiator needs replacing. I haven't done any more troubleshooting since then as the car was with my Indy for a window regulator, I'll be picking it up tomorrow AM. The suggestion was that a radiator flush with citric acid couldn't hurt and was inexpensive in everything but time. I'll try it in a couple weeks. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
I have a question about the inlet - outlet temp testing. In theory - even if a significant drop is noted, (such as 20C), wouldn't a blocked radiator reduce the volume of water being cycled? So even with an effective water pump, the cooling system would be unable to keep up with the heat producd by the engine. The only accurate way to do the test is to mimic the conditions in which the car overheats. The best way I have found to measure the radiators effectivness is using the IR thermomter and splitting the radiator into 6 sections, and drawing it on a pice of paper. Then using the IR thermometer maping the temps. As discussed, you almost always find a cool spot. A small differential in temp will be greatly amplified when the engine is producing alot of heat. On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Shouldn't matter once the car is moving... My '85's fan clutch didn't work at all and as long as it didn't sit still for a long time. -Curt Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 23:37:12 -0400 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... Message-ID: banlktimt6krpjcewn5kmxyfwy1vwgmm...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What about the fan clutch - have you checked it? On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm in a similar boat with my '84 190D. When I asked last week many folks suggested the radiator needs replacing. I haven't done any more troubleshooting since then as the car was with my Indy for a window regulator, I'll be picking it up tomorrow AM. The suggestion was that a radiator flush with citric acid couldn't hurt and was inexpensive in everything but time. I'll try it in a couple weeks. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
I feel like a newbie asking such a question. But I am not sure where to go. I don't see any coolant loss. I also don't seem to have super-high pressures, and didn't see any bubbles, though I didn't put the pressure meter on it yet. I think that would eliminate head stuff (which is a #22, relatively new)? No AC in this car. The electric fan does not come on at 105, but it isn't that hot usually so I have left that alone for now. Big fan tears up cardboard even at 80C, so I guess the viscous coupling is okay? Engine will peg at 85C on the interstate, mostly, and does not gain or lose temperature at idle in the shade; it starts to heat up slowly at idle in the sun, and heats up very quickly on low grades at low speed. My IR thermometer agrees with the gauge. I have let it get to about 110C as a test, though it has only broken 100C once on the road - but summer is just starting. Heater brings temperature back down at reasonable rate. The radiator inlet and outlet are about 20C different. I do not know the history of the radiator but it looks fairly new. As mentioned, no missing coolant. No obvious air blockage. Sudden onset worries me, but that could just be ambient temperatures - still, I didn't have any problem at 80F a few weeks ago. Acid flush and a new thermostat? What am I missing? Thanks for any clues, -Tim Newbie Yes, this means all three vehicles need something ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
Big fan tears up cardboard even at 80C, so I guess the viscous coupling is okay? Or at least stuck on. The radiator inlet and outlet are about 20C different. I do not know the history of the radiator but it looks fairly new. Feel around on it. Should be even, not cold (for example) behind the fan. Acid flush and a new thermostat? What am I missing? That's a good start. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
I'm in a similar boat with my '84 190D. When I asked last week many folks suggested the radiator needs replacing. I haven't done any more troubleshooting since then as the car was with my Indy for a window regulator, I'll be picking it up tomorrow AM. The suggestion was that a radiator flush with citric acid couldn't hurt and was inexpensive in everything but time. I'll try it in a couple weeks. -Curt Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 18:55:03 -0400 From: Tim C bb...@crone.us To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... Message-ID: banlktinkwyi7n1vdm2dmabhnewaconq...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I feel like a newbie asking such a question. But I am not sure where to go. I don't see any coolant loss. I also don't seem to have super-high pressures, and didn't see any bubbles, though I didn't put the pressure meter on it yet. I think that would eliminate head stuff (which is a #22, relatively new)? No AC in this car. The electric fan does not come on at 105, but it isn't that hot usually so I have left that alone for now. Big fan tears up cardboard even at 80C, so I guess the viscous coupling is okay? Engine will peg at 85C on the interstate, mostly, and does not gain or lose temperature at idle in the shade; it starts to heat up slowly at idle in the sun, and heats up very quickly on low grades at low speed. My IR thermometer agrees with the gauge. I have let it get to about 110C as a test, though it has only broken 100C once on the road - but summer is just starting. Heater brings temperature back down at reasonable rate. The radiator inlet and outlet are about 20C different. I do not know the history of the radiator but it looks fairly new. As mentioned, no missing coolant. No obvious air blockage. Sudden onset worries me, but that could just be ambient temperatures - still, I didn't have any problem at 80F a few weeks ago. Acid flush and a new thermostat? What am I missing? Thanks for any clues, -Tim Newbie Yes, this means all three vehicles need something ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
What about the fan clutch - have you checked it? On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm in a similar boat with my '84 190D. When I asked last week many folks suggested the radiator needs replacing. I haven't done any more troubleshooting since then as the car was with my Indy for a window regulator, I'll be picking it up tomorrow AM. The suggestion was that a radiator flush with citric acid couldn't hurt and was inexpensive in everything but time. I'll try it in a couple weeks. -Curt Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 18:55:03 -0400 From: Tim C bb...@crone.us To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating... Message-ID: banlktinkwyi7n1vdm2dmabhnewaconq...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I feel like a newbie asking such a question. But I am not sure where to go. I don't see any coolant loss. I also don't seem to have super-high pressures, and didn't see any bubbles, though I didn't put the pressure meter on it yet. I think that would eliminate head stuff (which is a #22, relatively new)? No AC in this car. The electric fan does not come on at 105, but it isn't that hot usually so I have left that alone for now. Big fan tears up cardboard even at 80C, so I guess the viscous coupling is okay? Engine will peg at 85C on the interstate, mostly, and does not gain or lose temperature at idle in the shade; it starts to heat up slowly at idle in the sun, and heats up very quickly on low grades at low speed. My IR thermometer agrees with the gauge. I have let it get to about 110C as a test, though it has only broken 100C once on the road - but summer is just starting. Heater brings temperature back down at reasonable rate. The radiator inlet and outlet are about 20C different. I do not know the history of the radiator but it looks fairly new. As mentioned, no missing coolant. No obvious air blockage. Sudden onset worries me, but that could just be ambient temperatures - still, I didn't have any problem at 80F a few weeks ago. Acid flush and a new thermostat? What am I missing? Thanks for any clues, -Tim Newbie Yes, this means all three vehicles need something ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 300SDL almost-overheating...
This sort of behavior is typical of a plugged radiator or bad (eroded) water pump. A bad fan clutch will cause high temps in low speed situations like idling in traffic, and the electric fan will come on at 100C or so. If it doesn't, fix that, too. Heating under load is either a bad thermostat (failing to open completely) or a clogged radiator or bad water pump as the radiator is hot shedding the heat properly. It is possible that you have a bad head gasket (or it wasn't installed properly, etc), in which case you will have substantial cold pressure in the radiator. One more thing to check -- if you have had a leaking front seal at any time, oil collects on the radiator and that causes dirt to plug it. It's easy enough to pull the rad on that car, it's worth the effort to pull it and empty it. Clogging of the fins is obvious, and will be worst behind the hub of the electric fan. You don't have AC, so you don't have one large trapping point -- the space between condenser and radiator is very prone to collecting chopped insect parts! No air flow will give you overheating under load, just like no coolant flow. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
