Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
BioD *is* different; in a good way. the flash point of BioD is listed in several places i found as ± 150°C as opposed to petroleum diesel at ± 70°C. it's unlikely that regular old #2 would even be a fire hazard in a leak, and with the even higher flash point of Biod it's extremely unlikely that leaking BioD would cause a fire hazard. cheers! e Craig McCluskey wrote: > > On Fri, 26 May 2006 20:45:45 -0700 (PDT) B Dike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes, you might smell the leak and pull over if one fails, but a family > > member might not recognize the problem until a fire breaks out. > > One of the "advantages" of petroleum diesel is that it's not very > flammable, so there is little worry of a fire. > > Are you saying that biodiesel is different? > > Craig
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Luther Gulseth wrote: Oh wow, it's a glorious day. I have the privilege of answering the question from Herr Doktor. The flash point of BioD is over 300o F. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Envi&Safetyinfo.PDF Luther, a satisfied man Thanks Luther, and the link is a good one. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Oh wow, it's a glorious day. I have the privilege of answering the question from Herr Doktor. The flash point of BioD is over 300o F. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Envi&Safetyinfo.PDF Luther, a satisfied man Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > What's the flash point of bioD? I've had #2 spraying around the engine > compartment from time to time for years and NEVER had a fire and know of > NONE reported in any Mercedes diesel as the result of leaking fuel. Is > Bio that much more hazardous? Might be a good reason to prohibit it's use. > > Good idea to replace the return hoses with Viton to keep things tidy > though if using Bio. > > Marshall > -- > Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) >"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] > '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 > 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired) > -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '83 300SD (235kmi WVO/diesel mix) '82 300CD (160kmi) '82 300D (74kmi needs block or engine)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
B Dike wrote: Everybody: I have been running various blends and formulations of biodiesel in my 4 diesels for a couple years now. Here's what I found: 1. New standard braided injector return lines can fail catastrophically in less than one year, spraying the engine compartment with fuel and creating a dangerous fire hazard. Happened twice, thankfully no fires. 2. New tank filler gaskets will rot in 2 years. Goopy melted rubber oozes down the side of car, damaging paint. 3. Fuel tank lines have not yet shown obvious acceleration of rot other than standard rate of decay. I watch these closely. 4. Fuel leaks at mechanical joints are appearing all over. Rubber problems seem to depend on the particular bio used. The commercial bio sources seem to be the worse than homebrew. The latest shipment from a commercial supplier is particularly nasty. I strongly recomend that anyone running bio replace the braided return lines immediately wth Viton or 1/8 hi pressure rubber fuel line. The old style lines constitute a fire hazard. There may be no sign of leakage, softening, or other prior warning before they blow competely off. Yes, you might smell the leak and pull over if one fails, but a family member might not recognize the problem until a fire breaks out. What's the flash point of bioD? I've had #2 spraying around the engine compartment from time to time for years and NEVER had a fire and know of NONE reported in any Mercedes diesel as the result of leaking fuel. Is Bio that much more hazardous? Might be a good reason to prohibit it's use. Good idea to replace the return hoses with Viton to keep things tidy though if using Bio. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
To my knowledge vegetable oil needs to be at like 600F or higher before it might potentially ignite. So, I suppose it's possible on the turbo or something (Pretty sure an oil leak on the turbo/exhaust is what cause the fire on an old Impulse I had). Not sure what the temp is of diesel. A spark certainly wouldn't set either off. For that matter, I've tried to burn some spilled vegoil residue off of concrete with a propane torch and didn't have much luck. Levi On 5/26/06, Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 26 May 2006 20:45:45 -0700 (PDT) B Dike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, you might smell the leak and pull over if one fails, but a family > member might not recognize the problem until a fire breaks out. One of the "advantages" of petroleum diesel is that it's not very flammable, so there is little worry of a fire. Are you saying that biodiesel is different? Craig ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
On Fri, 26 May 2006 20:45:45 -0700 (PDT) B Dike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, you might smell the leak and pull over if one fails, but a family > member might not recognize the problem until a fire breaks out. One of the "advantages" of petroleum diesel is that it's not very flammable, so there is little worry of a fire. Are you saying that biodiesel is different? Craig
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Everybody: I have been running various blends and formulations of biodiesel in my 4 diesels for a couple years now. Here's what I found: 1. New standard braided injector return lines can fail catastrophically in less than one year, spraying the engine compartment with fuel and creating a dangerous fire hazard. Happened twice, thankfully no fires. 2. New tank filler gaskets will rot in 2 years. Goopy melted rubber oozes down the side of car, damaging paint. 3. Fuel tank lines have not yet shown obvious acceleration of rot other than standard rate of decay. I watch these closely. 4. Fuel leaks at mechanical joints are appearing all over. Rubber problems seem to depend on the particular bio used. The commercial bio sources seem to be the worse than homebrew. The latest shipment from a commercial supplier is particularly nasty. I strongly recomend that anyone running bio replace the braided return lines immediately wth Viton or 1/8 hi pressure rubber fuel line. The old style lines constitute a fire hazard. There may be no sign of leakage, softening, or other prior warning before they blow competely off. Yes, you might smell the leak and pull over if one fails, but a family member might not recognize the problem until a fire breaks out. Bruce Levi Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, I'm not too worried about the rubber lines with bio. The other part I've heard is that there aren't many "rubber" lines that are made with "natural rubber" that are more susceptible to being eaten by bio. I certainly don't blame wvo for a leak I had on a worn out cracked and split return line on a 23 year old car... As for the synthetic, it's all in how you look at it. I've experienced first-hand how synthetic "causes leaks". I switched to synthetic one weekend and then within an hour I had an oil feed line for the turbo that was spraying a stream of oil. Now, I don't think synthetic dug a whole in the line, but I think it unclogged the gunk that was previously plugging the hole... So, whether it "caused" it or not is semantics, but the fact that synthetic can start leaking when you switch over is definitely true in some cases. Levi (: On 5/24/06, David Brodbeck wrote: > > Bob Rentfro wrote: > > Is Viton the super secret good stuff? > > > > Viton has very good chemical-resistant properties. In my previous job > at a carwash manufacturer we made heavy use of Viton seals for valves > and fittings that carried soaps. A lot of the soaps contained > D-Limonene, a powerful degreaser and solvent derived from orange peels. > It's non-toxic, but it'll swell rubber in high concentrations -- Viton > and PVC are about the only polymers that will stand up to it. It's > pretty amazing the first time you see a rubber O-ring that's swelled up > to twice its normal size. > > I wonder how much of the "biodiesel kills hoses" story is because a lot > of old cars have hoses that are about to go anyway, and when they fail > the biodiesel gets blamed. Sort of like the old wives' tale about > synthetic oil causing leaks. > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net Bruce 82 300CD 334kmi 'His' 85 300CD 240kmi 'Hers' 75 240D 202kmi 'Donner' 77 240D 204kmi 'Blitzen' 73 220D 'It' - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat May 27 03:50:38 2006 Received: from smtpout.mac.com ([17.250.248.182]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fjpp0-0001Vk-Fs for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sat, 27 May 2006 03:50:38 + Received: from mac.com (smtpin07-en2 [10.13.10.152]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/8.12.11/smtpout12/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id k4R3obCb013958; Fri, 26 May 2006 20:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.3] (ip68-2-210-120.ph.ph.cox.net [68.2.210.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin07/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id k4R3oXC4016571; Fri, 26 May 2006 20:50:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:50:31 -070
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Levi Smith wrote: Exactly. I'm just saying that the fact remains that there IS a good chance you will find some new leaks when switching an old(er) engine to synthetic. I just saw "old wives tail" about synthetic leaking and I wanted to point out while chances are good that there WON'T be any problems, it's definitely worth keeping an eye out when switching as there's a prety decent chance that you MAY find some new leaks... I just now know NOT to go about making a change from cruddy oil to synthetic immediately before making a 4 hour trip to a new house. (: Which synthetic? Hmm... It might have been M1... It was quite a while ago, I almost think I may have been using some other crap that I found on the shelf like Syntec 5-50 or something... M-1 has agents in it's additive package that prevents seal shrinkage. It will usually seal minor leaks at seals and gaskets. It will NOT seal leaks that have been plugged by sludge - in fact it will do you the favor of dissolving the sludge so that you can find and repair the leak as God intended. As to Syntec 5W-50, it's even a poor example of group III oil (highly dependent on viscosity improvers) and doesn't belong in any discussion of synthetic oil despite the legal ruling that it can be called "synthetic."! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Exactly. I'm just saying that the fact remains that there IS a good chance you will find some new leaks when switching an old(er) engine to synthetic. I just saw "old wives tail" about synthetic leaking and I wanted to point out while chances are good that there WON'T be any problems, it's definitely worth keeping an eye out when switching as there's a prety decent chance that you MAY find some new leaks... I just now know NOT to go about making a change from cruddy oil to synthetic immediately before making a 4 hour trip to a new house. (: Which synthetic? Hmm... It might have been M1... It was quite a while ago, I almost think I may have been using some other crap that I found on the shelf like Syntec 5-50 or something... Levi On 5/24/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Levi Smith wrote: > As for the synthetic, it's all in how you look at it. > I've experienced first-hand how synthetic "causes leaks". I switched to > synthetic one weekend and then within an hour I had an oil feed line for the > turbo that was spraying a stream of oil. > Now, I don't think synthetic dug a whole in the line, but I think it > unclogged the gunk that was previously plugging the hole... > So, whether it "caused" it or not is semantics, but the fact that synthetic > can start leaking when you switch over is definitely true in some cases. So the "synthetic" (what synthetic?) revealed the flaw in your car! That's NOT a flaw, it a feature! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired) ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
redghost wrote: I suspect that you should have all the fuel hoses ready to replace if you are taking your 20+ year old car and going BioD on it. The things are old and will fail one way or the other. At least this way you have the spare ready to replace the leaky ones. I thought everyone kept a little coil of various sizes of fuel hose in their trunk, alongside the roll of duct tape. ;)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Levi Smith wrote: As for the synthetic, it's all in how you look at it. I've experienced first-hand how synthetic "causes leaks". I switched to synthetic one weekend and then within an hour I had an oil feed line for the turbo that was spraying a stream of oil. Now, I don't think synthetic dug a whole in the line, but I think it unclogged the gunk that was previously plugging the hole... So, whether it "caused" it or not is semantics, but the fact that synthetic can start leaking when you switch over is definitely true in some cases. So the "synthetic" (what synthetic?) revealed the flaw in your car! That's NOT a flaw, it a feature! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
I suspect that you should have all the fuel hoses ready to replace if you are taking your 20+ year old car and going BioD on it. The things are old and will fail one way or the other. At least this way you have the spare ready to replace the leaky ones. On Tuesday, May 23, 2006, at 01:44 PM, Bob Rentfro wrote: If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth making a package. I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. Bob Rentfro Injector fuel return hoses are the only ones that consistently give people trouble. Apparently it's the combination of heat and bio that overwhelms them. On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when- you-start-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
On May 24, 2006, at 2:33 PM, Levi Smith wrote: I switched to synthetic one weekend and then within an hour I had an oil feed line for the turbo that was spraying a stream of oil. I would call that a coincidence, no way synthetic oil cleans anything that fast. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Well, I'm not too worried about the rubber lines with bio. The other part I've heard is that there aren't many "rubber" lines that are made with "natural rubber" that are more susceptible to being eaten by bio. I certainly don't blame wvo for a leak I had on a worn out cracked and split return line on a 23 year old car... As for the synthetic, it's all in how you look at it. I've experienced first-hand how synthetic "causes leaks". I switched to synthetic one weekend and then within an hour I had an oil feed line for the turbo that was spraying a stream of oil. Now, I don't think synthetic dug a whole in the line, but I think it unclogged the gunk that was previously plugging the hole... So, whether it "caused" it or not is semantics, but the fact that synthetic can start leaking when you switch over is definitely true in some cases. Levi (: On 5/24/06, David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Bob Rentfro wrote: > Is Viton the super secret good stuff? > Viton has very good chemical-resistant properties. In my previous job at a carwash manufacturer we made heavy use of Viton seals for valves and fittings that carried soaps. A lot of the soaps contained D-Limonene, a powerful degreaser and solvent derived from orange peels. It's non-toxic, but it'll swell rubber in high concentrations -- Viton and PVC are about the only polymers that will stand up to it. It's pretty amazing the first time you see a rubber O-ring that's swelled up to twice its normal size. I wonder how much of the "biodiesel kills hoses" story is because a lot of old cars have hoses that are about to go anyway, and when they fail the biodiesel gets blamed. Sort of like the old wives' tale about synthetic oil causing leaks. ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Bob Rentfro wrote: Is Viton the super secret good stuff? Viton has very good chemical-resistant properties. In my previous job at a carwash manufacturer we made heavy use of Viton seals for valves and fittings that carried soaps. A lot of the soaps contained D-Limonene, a powerful degreaser and solvent derived from orange peels. It's non-toxic, but it'll swell rubber in high concentrations -- Viton and PVC are about the only polymers that will stand up to it. It's pretty amazing the first time you see a rubber O-ring that's swelled up to twice its normal size. I wonder how much of the "biodiesel kills hoses" story is because a lot of old cars have hoses that are about to go anyway, and when they fail the biodiesel gets blamed. Sort of like the old wives' tale about synthetic oil causing leaks.
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Good point, OK Don. Bob Rentfro - Original Message - From: "OK Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty As someone pointed out earlier - everyone (almost) running BioD is doing it in an old car - and most don't replace all the hoses before starting on the BioD. I suspect (NO Evidence) that most reports of leaking hoses caused by BioD are coincidental failures of old hoses. On 5/23/06, Levi Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes. They will eventually deteriorate with biodiesel. Just like they will eventually deteriorate with regular diesel. Levi :) On 5/23/06, kevin kraly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
As someone pointed out earlier - everyone (almost) running BioD is doing it in an old car - and most don't replace all the hoses before starting on the BioD. I suspect (NO Evidence) that most reports of leaking hoses caused by BioD are coincidental failures of old hoses. On 5/23/06, Levi Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes. They will eventually deteriorate with biodiesel. Just like they will eventually deteriorate with regular diesel. Levi :) On 5/23/06, kevin kraly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK "The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Yes. They will eventually deteriorate with biodiesel. Just like they will eventually deteriorate with regular diesel. Levi :) On 5/23/06, kevin kraly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. My assumption was that any rubber lines in the system, those that are at both ends of the main metal fuel lines, would eventually deteriorate when using biodiesel. Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1981 300CD 204Kmiles, Giesela ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
kevin kraly wrote: I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. My assumption was that any rubber lines in the system, those that are at both ends of the main metal fuel lines, would eventually deteriorate when using biodiesel. All of the fuel hoses WILL eventually deteriorate. Bio will accelerate the process in SOME cars and NOT in others. No way to predict. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. My assumption was that any rubber lines in the system, those that are at both ends of the main metal fuel lines, would eventually deteriorate when using biodiesel. Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1981 300CD 204Kmiles, Giesela
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
one of the reasons i specifically picked the 617.952 was for the tolerance attributed to the inline pump they use. while one local IP rebuilder sends his rebuilt units back with big warning tags prohibiting the use of BioD at the risk of invalidating his warranty, i'm not aware of anyone in the fleet associated with the local BioD dispenser that's had problems with the inline IPs that have been attributable to the fuel itself. nonetheless, i've accepted that using BioD is a pioneering sort of activity, and have accepted the fact that there may be some risk(s) associated with it. FWIW, cost of the fuel wasn't the only deciding factor in many folks choice to use BioD, and many here have been paying a premium to use Commercially available BioD for years already. cheers! e '85 300D B100 in Berkeley > > On May 23, 2006, at 5:10 PM, ernest breakfield wrote: > >>many people i know using BioD over the last few years haven't >> changed >> theirs out at all. i haven't changed mine out yet, and i run almost >> exclusively B100; but i've only got about 30,000 miles on B100 so >> far,... ;-) >> >> >> cheers! >> e > > What concerns me is the seals in the IP. Screwing up a pump can > negate the savings of rolling your own Bio-D. Any words of wisdom or > experiences appreciated. > > Johnny B. > I Mac Therefore I am > >
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
I've been inside several inline MB pumps, and other than the delivery valve o-rings, there don't appear to be any rubber seals that come into direct contact with the fuel--fuel pump itself notwithstanding. Rotary distributor type pumps (think VW) are bathed and lubricated entirely by fuel, so I do worry about bad bio in those units. On 5/23/06, John Berryman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What concerns me is the seals in the IP. Screwing up a pump can negate the savings of rolling your own Bio-D. Any words of wisdom or experiences appreciated. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
On May 23, 2006, at 5:10 PM, ernest breakfield wrote: many people i know using BioD over the last few years haven't changed theirs out at all. i haven't changed mine out yet, and i run almost exclusively B100; but i've only got about 30,000 miles on B100 so far,... ;-) cheers! e What concerns me is the seals in the IP. Screwing up a pump can negate the savings of rolling your own Bio-D. Any words of wisdom or experiences appreciated. Johnny B. I Mac Therefore I am
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Zeitgeist wrote: Agreed, which is why I don't see much need to touch any of your other fuel lines...but, the return lines are subjected to a fair amount of heat, which I believe is the real culprit. I've personally observed return lines lasting no more than a year before becoming hard and brittle to the point of leaking, or worse yet, popping off under pressure. Unless I've pulled them on and off many times (to mess with injectors), most return lines last 6-10 years in my cars. I'd like to try the Viton, but I have to use up the several meters of conventional return line I have on hand (may take 4-6 more years before they need replacement ;-). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Bob Rentfro wrote: Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. Many of the older hoses and seals have essentially petrified and will NOT dissolve when the Bio or WVO hit's them - while other hoses from precisely the same period seem vulnerable and even a few newer hoses may fail. There is not enough data on all of the possible fuel variants used with all the hoses to make RELIABLE decisions. We CAN speculate, but previous speculation has been VERY unreliable. When low sulfur fuel was introduced over a decade ago, there was fear that the delivery valve "O" rings and fuel hoses would fail, but in fact fewer than 5% of Mercedes developed any problem. One of my cars did leak from the delivery valve "O" rings, but the other 6 OM60x engines I've owned (some older, most newer) have never leaked a drop until this year when several fuel hoses have started getting damp (as they reach 20 years of age they are nearing the end of their life). I recommend waiting for leaks to appear (these usually ooze for weeks before the leaks get serious) and if a second one occurs in a similar element, then maybe change them all. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Agreed, which is why I don't see much need to touch any of your other fuel lines...but, the return lines are subjected to a fair amount of heat, which I believe is the real culprit. I've personally observed return lines lasting no more than a year before becoming hard and brittle to the point of leaking, or worse yet, popping off under pressure. On 5/23/06, ernest breakfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Bob, FWIW, i think a lot of the concern over changing hoses to use BioD is somewhat overblown; i watch the fuel lines as i would on any vehicle that's decades old (as most of ours are), and will change them when i see signs that they need it. many people i know using BioD over the last few years haven't changed theirs out at all. i haven't changed mine out yet, and i run almost exclusively B100; but i've only got about 30,000 miles on B100 so far,... ;-) Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Ahh...30K miles on B100..no leaks yet. I love emperical data. Bob Rentfro - Original Message - From: "ernest breakfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty Bob, FWIW, i think a lot of the concern over changing hoses to use BioD is somewhat overblown; i watch the fuel lines as i would on any vehicle that's decades old (as most of ours are), and will change them when i see signs that they need it. many people i know using BioD over the last few years haven't changed theirs out at all. i haven't changed mine out yet, and i run almost exclusively B100; but i've only got about 30,000 miles on B100 so far,... ;-) cheers! e '85 300D B100 in Berkeley Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 153K Litchfield Park, AZ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Bob, FWIW, i think a lot of the concern over changing hoses to use BioD is somewhat overblown; i watch the fuel lines as i would on any vehicle that's decades old (as most of ours are), and will change them when i see signs that they need it. many people i know using BioD over the last few years haven't changed theirs out at all. i haven't changed mine out yet, and i run almost exclusively B100; but i've only got about 30,000 miles on B100 so far,... ;-) cheers! e '85 300D B100 in Berkeley > Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty > looks at the Bio list. > Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a > these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio > kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand > in the trunk. > > Bob Rentfro > '77 300D 153K > Litchfield Park, AZ
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
3.2 mm injector return line http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/enter.asp?partnum=5119K111+ 7mm all purpose fuel line http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/enter.asp?partnum=5119K49 1/4", slightly tighter than 7mm (0.2756") Rusty may have a source for Viton in the proper size, I don't know. If he does, it'll be the better solution. Luther Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth > making a package. > I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. > > Bob Rentfro > > - Original Message - > From: "Zeitgeist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:37 PM > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty > > > > Injector fuel return hoses are the only ones that consistently give people > > trouble. Apparently it's the combination of heat and bio that overwhelms > > them. > > > > On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty > >> looks at the Bio list. > >> Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a > >> these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you- start-running-bio > >> kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on > >> hand > >> in the trunk. > >> > > > > Casey > > Olympia, WA > > Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" > > '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) > > '84 300D (212k) > > Gashuffer: > > '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) > > ___ > > http://www.striplin.net > > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > > > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net > -- Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '83 300SD (235kmi WVO/diesel mix) '82 300CD (160kmi) '82 300D (74kmi needs block or engine)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
All the super-freaky bio/WVO guys swear by it. I just bought some, but haven't installed it yet. On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is Viton the super secret good stuff? Is replacing stock hoses with Viton a good idea? Bob Rentfro - Original Message - From: "Zeitgeist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty > It would be worth it, if Rusty were to offer Viton return lines, > specifically for running bio. Otherwise, he already offers OEM fuel > return > line "kits". > > On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth >> making a package. >> I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. >> >> > Casey > Olympia, WA > Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" > '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) > '84 300D (212k) > Gashuffer: > '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) > ___ > http://www.striplin.net > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Is Viton the super secret good stuff? Is replacing stock hoses with Viton a good idea? Bob Rentfro - Original Message - From: "Zeitgeist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty It would be worth it, if Rusty were to offer Viton return lines, specifically for running bio. Otherwise, he already offers OEM fuel return line "kits". On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth making a package. I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
It would be worth it, if Rusty were to offer Viton return lines, specifically for running bio. Otherwise, he already offers OEM fuel return line "kits". On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth making a package. I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
If the injector return hoses are the only ones, then that is hardly worth making a package. I thought there were more hoses routinely effected. Bob Rentfro - Original Message - From: "Zeitgeist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty Injector fuel return hoses are the only ones that consistently give people trouble. Apparently it's the combination of heat and bio that overwhelms them. On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Let me know all the hoses and I'll make a package. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Rentfro Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-s tart-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 153K Litchfield Park, AZ ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
[MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty
Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty looks at the Bio list. Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand in the trunk. Bob Rentfro '77 300D 153K Litchfield Park, AZ From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue May 23 20:37:39 2006 Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com ([66.249.82.195]) by server5.arterytc5.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FiddD-00070E-So for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 23 May 2006 20:37:33 + Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s18so931408wxc for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s¾ta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=mRuwp2B60Ez7Ecdku7qi2tfeqBrvP90N+V4j6UiF/3xvvGfYorDnxsgdJrqIMWf/8oV8HrZCGBhPlVNAsocx7YiDWJDiyrhF5Le+NXwLTFLinaQuGzIw6CB80EeaBsAIBUkHdjTibnqRDsi2/Ve68LH2FH8YcpvpXkfb648K5yoReceived: by 10.70.17.10 with SMTP id 10mr6829106wxq; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.16.10 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2006 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:37:31 -0700 From: Zeitgeist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bio Standby Hose Package-Rusty X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Archive: <http://striplin.net/pipermail/mercedes_striplin.net> List-Post: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Help: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> List-Subscribe: <http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net>, <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 20:37:43 - Injector fuel return hoses are the only ones that consistently give people trouble. Apparently it's the combination of heat and bio that overwhelms them. On 5/23/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Forgive me Kaleb...I'm double-posting this 'cause I'm not sure if rusty > looks at the Bio list. > Let's say someone (Rusty) was going to make a > these-are-the-hoses-that-usually-need-replacing-at-some-point-when-you-start-running-bio > kit. Which hoses would be included? It would be sweet to have them on hand > in the trunk. > Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler #22 (214k) '84 300D (212k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
