[MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
howdy all! helping a friend put a head back on a 84 (i think) 300SD. book (chiltons or something) says 30 ft lbs, then 53 (i think) ft lbs, then wait ten minutes, THEN 90 degrees, then 90 more degrees. Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks? We would much appreciate it. Chris, greasy THANKS!!! Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2006 GSD, Anke -1985 300SD, 217K, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K, little blue klatter box -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, One Banger - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 23 02:44:37 2006 Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.152]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gn4Zo-0003HG-Ig for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:44:37 + Received: from aceraspire (c-68-57-181-125.hsd1.va.comcast.net[68.57.181.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id 20061123024211m1200krglve; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:42:16 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:42:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: [MBZ] Glow Plug Testing X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:44:37 - Howdy All, I went to Sears, Radio Shack, Home Depot and Lowes looking for a multimeter that will test DC current to at least 30A. No luck - Sears was sold out and the rest don't carry them. So, I'll order a tester and will be able to test the GP's as Jim C. described. When I got home I did a Google for GP Testing - and got this: Testing glow plugs is easy and can be done with them still installed in the engine. Just disconnect the wire going to each glow plug. Connect a test light to the POSITIVE (+) battery terminal and touch the point of the test light to each glow plug terminal. If the light lights, it's good. If it doesn't, it's bad and needs to be replaced. Do you replace just the bad one or all of them? My opinion is that if one went bad, then the rest are not too far behind. So I recommend replacing all of them at the same time. I would replace, at the very least, all of the glow plugs on the same side. It came from http://autorepair.about.com/od/enginerelateddiyjobs/l/aa081404c.htm which some may find interesting. So, my question for jim, etc is will this work as well as they say? It looks more like they're testing the engine for a good ground thru the GPs but perhaps it tells if the GPs are good also?? What's the concensus? Is this test as good as testing the DC current? TIA - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
Christopher McCann wrote: howdy all! helping a friend put a head back on a 84 (i think) 300SD. book (chiltons or something) says 30 ft lbs, then 53 (i think) ft lbs, then wait ten minutes, THEN 90 degrees, then 90 more degrees. Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks? We would much appreciate it. Chris, greasy THANKS!!! It's 90 degrees, then wait and then 90 degrees again. It stretches the head bolts and it's the distance the bolts are stretched - NOT a torque - that is critical. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
Marshall, thanks for your answer. The idiot at the indy parts desk said that these bolts are NOT torque to yield, so we are using the same bolts. You seem to be saying that they ARE torque to yield...so we need new bolts...and that also means that since we got half way throught the torquing, we wasted the head gasket too, no? Thanks a million. Chris Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: howdy all! helping a friend put a head back on a 84 (i think) 300SD. book (chiltons or something) says 30 ft lbs, then 53 (i think) ft lbs, then wait ten minutes, THEN 90 degrees, then 90 more degrees. Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks? We would much appreciate it. Chris, greasy THANKS!!! It's 90 degrees, then wait and then 90 degrees again. It stretches the head bolts and it's the distance the bolts are stretched - NOT a torque - that is critical. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2006 GSD, Anke -1985 300SD, 217K, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K, little blue klatter box -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, One Banger - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 23 03:41:00 2006 Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([216.148.227.153]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gn5SO-000528-0k for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:41:00 + Received: from [192.168.1.6] (c-24-3-195-27.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[24.3.195.27]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id 20061123033839m13004o4e2e; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:38:39 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:38:35 -0500 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Testing X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:41:00 - The light will light even if the plug resistance is 5-10 times what it should be! That's a pretty poor test and that plug will do a rotten job of starting the engine! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
It is an om617.951 born in 02/84 Where does that leave me? FYI 300SD W126.120 Thanks Chris Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: Marshall, thanks for your answer. The idiot at the indy parts desk said that these bolts are NOT torque to yield, so we are using the same bolts. You seem to be saying that they ARE torque to yield...so we need new bolts...and that also means that since we got half way throught the torquing, we wasted the head gasket too, no? Thanks a million. Later engines have torque to yield bolts, earlier engines don't. Check the workshop manual for when they changed over. I have NO idea what you have. Using the incorrect bolts will not give satisfactory results. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2006 GSD, Anke -1985 300SD, 217K, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K, little blue klatter box -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, One Banger - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 23 03:59:48 2006 Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net ([216.148.227.153]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gn5ka-0005Vi-Sq for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:59:48 + Received: from [192.168.1.6] (c-24-3-195-27.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[24.3.195.27]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id 20061123035728m13004qcdse; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:57:28 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:57:23 -0500 From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:59:49 - Christopher McCann wrote: It is an om617.951 born in 02/84 Where does that leave me? FYI 300SD W126.120 Thanks Chris Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: Marshall, thanks for your answer. The idiot at the indy parts desk said that these bolts are NOT torque to yield, so we are using the same bolts. You seem to be saying that they ARE torque to yield...so we need new bolts...and that also means that since we got half way throught the torquing, we wasted the head gasket too, no? Thanks a million. Later engines have torque to yield bolts, earlier engines don't. Check the workshop manual for when they changed over. I have NO idea what you have. Using the incorrect bolts will not give satisfactory results. Marshall Depends on what bolts came on YOUR engine. Covered in section 01-405 of the engine manual. Hex head screws seem to be for the older heads/gaskets/engines and double hex bolts are stretch bolts for the later engines. What's on your engine? Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
We have the12 point (double hex) bolts. Chris Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: It is an om617.951 born in 02/84 Where does that leave me? FYI 300SD W126.120 Thanks Chris Marshall Booth wrote: Christopher McCann wrote: Marshall, thanks for your answer. The idiot at the indy parts desk said that these bolts are NOT torque to yield, so we are using the same bolts. You seem to be saying that they ARE torque to yield...so we need new bolts...and that also means that since we got half way throught the torquing, we wasted the head gasket too, no? Thanks a million. Later engines have torque to yield bolts, earlier engines don't. Check the workshop manual for when they changed over. I have NO idea what you have. Using the incorrect bolts will not give satisfactory results. Marshall Depends on what bolts came on YOUR engine. Covered in section 01-405 of the engine manual. Hex head screws seem to be for the older heads/gaskets/engines and double hex bolts are stretch bolts for the later engines. What's on your engine? Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Christopher McCann, Squier Park, Kansas City, Missouri -2006 GSD, Anke -1985 300SD, 217K, Wulf -1982 300Dt, 117K, little blue klatter box -1971 Case 222 Hydrive, One Banger - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Nov 23 04:05:16 2006 Received: from mailout4.parasun.com ([204.174.16.212]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Gn5pr-0006kU-SW for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 04:05:16 + Received: from rrcs-24-39-222-124.nys.biz.rr.com ([24.39.222.124] helo=user4ykwxvt62x) by mailout4.parasun.com with smtp (Exim 4.54) id 1Gn5nb-0008D3-8v for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:02:55 -0800 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Mike Canfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:02:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Testing X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 04:05:16 - So basically it is a test of IF the glow plug will work at all but no indicator of the overall condition of the glowplug. Thanks MarshallMakes perfect sense to me. Mike - Original Message - From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Glow Plug Testing The light will light even if the plug resistance is 5-10 times what it should be! That's a pretty poor test and that plug will do a rotten job of starting the engine! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
90 degrees, they are stretch bolts and you are pre-tensioning them to keep the head gasket compressed hot and cold. This is fairly normal European practice, especially with aluminum heads. Peter
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
It depends on the engine - read the appropriate manual. The bolts for my aluminum headed 117 engine are torque, loosen, re-torque. Other engines are turn 90 degrees. Use the right bolts for the engine, and tighten them per the manual. On 11/22/06, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 90 degrees, they are stretch bolts and you are pre-tensioning them to keep the head gasket compressed hot and cold. This is fairly normal European practice, especially with aluminum heads. Peter -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
THEN 90 degrees, then 90 more degrees. Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks? So far as I know, _any_ bolt with a degree specification rather than torque is not a torque bolt at all, but a stretch bolt. MB, at least, usually gives you a measurement that you can check to see if the bolt can be reused. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
Christopher McCann wrote: We have the12 point (double hex) bolts. All of the double hex bolts are stretch bolts and must be given the two 90 degree turns (after they are properly torqued) to properly set them! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
I remember seeing a picture of a special tool in an earlier MB paper manual - it was a wrench with a degree scale to measure the angle of twist, so you could get the 90 degrees accurately. The bolts holding the flywheel onto the crank of the 615 engine were torque to XX NM, then 90 degrees more. I eyeballed the 90 degrees. The special tool for measuring the twist seemed very German to me --- Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks? -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
The torque is irrelevant, what you are doing is loading a spring. In fact, the torque will not change much as you turn the bolts. The bolts are elastic -- by applying a pre-determined amount of stretch to them you are ensuring that they will always have a correct holding together pressure. This is to keep the minumum pressure on the head gasket at all temperature ranges. On aluminum heads, the head expands more than the bolts, for instance, and if you just torqued down standard bolts, the head gasket would be crushed when the engine was at operating temperature, then loose cold. The stretch bolts act as springs, keeping adequate pressure on the head all the time. When they become inelastic and grow in length instead of returning to their initial length when unscrewed, they are toast and have to be replaced, as they are no longer acting as springs. Note that the stretch bolts always have a reduced diameter section. Peter
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
What Peter said ;-) And *THAT's* why bolts such as these typically are called to be replaced with each use. Usually head bolts and flywheel bolts - and others. They make *look* ok - but since they've been stretched they need to be renewed to make the 90 degree torque accurate. MB has been calling for the 90 + 90 torque for a long time - my experience goes back to 60s era MB engines but the practice probably goes back even farther. As mentioned, there';s a tool to measure the degrees exactly but eyeballing it is acceptable as long as some thought is given beforehand. Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs The torque is irrelevant, what you are doing is loading a spring. In fact, the torque will not change much as you turn the bolts. The bolts are elastic -- by applying a pre-determined amount of stretch to them you are ensuring that they will always have a correct holding together pressure. This is to keep the minumum pressure on the head gasket at all temperature ranges. On aluminum heads, the head expands more than the bolts, for instance, and if you just torqued down standard bolts, the head gasket would be crushed when the engine was at operating temperature, then loose cold. The stretch bolts act as springs, keeping adequate pressure on the head all the time. When they become inelastic and grow in length instead of returning to their initial length when unscrewed, they are toast and have to be replaced, as they are no longer acting as springs. Note that the stretch bolts always have a reduced diameter section. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.14/547 - Release Date: 11/22/2006
Re: [MBZ] om617 head bolt torque specs
My Indy just bought a Snap-On torque Wrench wit Digital Display. Doesn't Click when you reach your setting it Buzzes and Vibrates. Reads out in Deg., Ft. Lbs, Inch Lbs, And Newton Meters. Cool Torque Wrench but at 400 bucks not for the DYI'er unless you have money to burn. The Newer MB V-8's head bolts are torqued to 60° twice. Russ W. OK Don wrote: I remember seeing a picture of a special tool in an earlier MB paper manual - it was a wrench with a degree scale to measure the angle of twist, so you could get the 90 degrees accurately. The bolts holding the flywheel onto the crank of the 615 engine were torque to XX NM, then 90 degrees more. I eyeballed the 90 degrees. The special tool for measuring the twist seemed very German to me --- Frankly, this 90 degree stuff doesn't sound very German and it makes me nervous. Does anybody know what the actual specs (ft lbs or nM) are for the last two cranks?
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
the 601 is a nice little motor also. OK Don wrote: Both my 300D 2.5 and the 300SDL have adequate power for merging - no problems at all. The 602 and 603 engines are great! On 9/24/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trampas wrote: I was just dreaming of having a diesel with enough power such that I can merge onto the highway with out people honking. I guess a cummings diesel pickup would be a better option. I didn't feel like my 300D Turbo lacked for freeway merging power. It wasn't a fast car, but with the turbo it was adequate. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 86 300SDL, 84 380SE, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Well I after my 420SEL bent the valves, I have been driving the worn out 300SD. The poor old car can barely get out of the driveway in the mornings. Much less merge onto I40. I will be replacing head on the 420SEL this week. I had considered putting an OM617 in the car, but I would like something that has more power. Hopefully I can squeeze a few more years out of the car until I can afford the cummings. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:08 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 head the 601 is a nice little motor also. OK Don wrote: Both my 300D 2.5 and the 300SDL have adequate power for merging - no problems at all. The 602 and 603 engines are great! On 9/24/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trampas wrote: I was just dreaming of having a diesel with enough power such that I can merge onto the highway with out people honking. I guess a cummings diesel pickup would be a better option. I didn't feel like my 300D Turbo lacked for freeway merging power. It wasn't a fast car, but with the turbo it was adequate. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 86 300SDL, 84 380SE, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
I will be replacing head on the 420SEL this week. I had considered putting an OM617 in the car, but I would like something that has more power. There's a pretty noticeable difference between the 617 and 603 powered 126's in terms of power. Hopefully I can squeeze a few more years out of the car until I can afford the cummings. If you're gonna lust after her, better get her name right. It's Cummins. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Sunday evening and just couldn't resist.. Is that as in cummins and goins...? Bad, I know It's a Phunny Phriday plus TWO! Take care and be safe, Chuck Phoenix AZ. On Sep 24, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: I will be replacing head on the 420SEL this week. I had considered putting an OM617 in the car, but I would like something that has more power. There's a pretty noticeable difference between the 617 and 603 powered 126's in terms of power. Hopefully I can squeeze a few more years out of the car until I can afford the cummings. If you're gonna lust after her, better get her name right. It's Cummins. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head/weak cold performance/ALDA for sale
In a message dated 9/24/2006 4:13:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well I after my 420SEL bent the valves, I have been driving the worn out 300SD. The poor old car can barely get out of the driveway in the mornings. Much less merge onto I40. Trampas, I have for sale a resealed and tested ALDA that might be just up your alley. It sure sounds like you have A: never adjusted your ALDA, or B: It is not getting a pressure signal, or C: the ALDA has a failed chamber. $45 plus shipping. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 262 K miles 98 ML 320, 146 K miles
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Its funny, all this time I've spent thinking MA was the worst place on earth to drive and you guys are always working to dispel these ideas of mine. Heck I've driven in L.A. and thought it was NOTHING compared to Boston, at least none of the streets are one way... So anyway I could count on one hand the number of times I got honked at merging onto the highway with my 240D. I've never been honked at with my 190D and the weekend I had my friend's 300SD it felt like I was driving a rocket! -Curt Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:58:56 -0400 From: Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 head To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was just dreaming of having a diesel with enough power such that I can merge onto the highway with out people honking. I guess a cummings diesel pickup would be a better option. Trampas - Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 25 01:55:26 2006 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.180]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GRfgs-00016X-9c for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:55:26 + Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id i75so2097754pye for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.219.13 with SMTP id w13mr3534225qbq; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.249.3 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:55:17 -0500 From: OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fleece X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:55:26 - I don't know - there are plenty of examples on Larry's site of low mileage samples that are out of spec - a Maybach failed with excessive oxidation after the first 200 miles on the engine. There are many examples of oil with only 1000 miles failing. You don't know what's going on unless you have it analyzed. On 9/24/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Hurst wrote: i don't let science diminish the power of anectdote. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Curt Raymond wrote: Its funny, all this time I've spent thinking MA was the worst place on earth to drive and you guys are always working to dispel these ideas of mine. Heck I've driven in L.A. and thought it was NOTHING compared to Boston, at least none of the streets are one way... So anyway I could count on one hand the number of times I got honked at merging onto the highway with my 240D. I've never been honked at with my 190D and the weekend I had my friend's 300SD it felt like I was driving a rocket! When I had my diesel Vanagon (1.6L, NA, 49 horsepower) I once had someone pass me before I'd even cleared the intersection, as I was pulling away from a light!
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Cummins Cummings is the last name of a porn star. -Curt Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:12:48 -0400 From: Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 head To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well I after my 420SEL bent the valves, I have been driving the worn out 300SD. The poor old car can barely get out of the driveway in the mornings. Much less merge onto I40. I will be replacing head on the 420SEL this week. I had considered putting an OM617 in the car, but I would like something that has more power. Hopefully I can squeeze a few more years out of the car until I can afford the cummings. Trampas - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 25 02:05:37 2006 Received: from web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.36]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GRfqi-0002AG-UF for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 02:05:37 + Received: (qmail 35771 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2006 02:05:28 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [63.209.233.16] by web32806.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:05:28 PDT Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.7.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Stalls in gear FIXED Now timing X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 02:05:37 - Holy crap, old snowmobile thinking comes through on a Mercedes? I might have to buy a gasser. I saw a 230 w123 today, pretty car, teal paint. What are the gasser 123s like? -Curt Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 00:15:02 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MBZ] Stalls in gear FIXED Now timing To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain Hey Mak, The emissions portion of my vehicle is not functioning. MB does not sell replacements. Any idea how the EU version was setup timing wise? the US where at 4 ATDC. That had a vacuum to retard the timing and would kick it up as you accellerated and switched over to advance. This is a M130 250. BTW I tracked down my problem to the two carb mounting gaskets. Found it with some carb cleaner. Tightend it up and ran much stronger. Put it in gear, didn't stall, released the brake and had no problem with the uphill driveway. Thanks everybody for their help! - Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Sep 25 02:07:22 2006 Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.204]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GRfsQ-0002Db-4B for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 02:07:22 + Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id s.485.9383d97 (57365) for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:07:06 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:07:06 EDT To: mercedes@okiebenz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5326 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.7.cp2 Subject: Re: [MBZ] rodbender head X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7.cp2 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 02:07:22 - In a message dated 9/24/2006 12:17:27 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Will a '90 350SDL rod
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
So anyway I could count on one hand the number of times I got honked at merging onto the highway with my 240D. I've never been honked at with my 190D and the weekend I had my friend's 300SD it felt like I was driving a rocket! -Curt Must be a Texas thang, but I almost never hear anybody getting honked at (do see the occasional light flash though). Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Texas has a concealed carry law... Royce Engler 1985 300TD Turbo 290K
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head/weak cold performance/ALDA for sale
I think the car is worn out. I have adjusted the ALDA and I have it set now where it will blow smoke. I have also disconnected the waste gate as that I can never get anywhere near 14PSI boost. I have also adjusted the valves several times. I have also replaced injector nozzles, timing chain, etc. The problem is that #2 cylinder is low on compression, well actually all of them are well below the 300PSI mark. But why rebuild it if you can not make it better, using a multi-valve cross flow head? Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:51 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OM617 head/weak cold performance/ALDA for sale In a message dated 9/24/2006 4:13:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well I after my 420SEL bent the valves, I have been driving the worn out 300SD. The poor old car can barely get out of the driveway in the mornings. Much less merge onto I40. Trampas, I have for sale a resealed and tested ALDA that might be just up your alley. It sure sounds like you have A: never adjusted your ALDA, or B: It is not getting a pressure signal, or C: the ALDA has a failed chamber. $45 plus shipping. Regards, Jim Friesen Phoenix AZ 79 300SD, 262 K miles 98 ML 320, 146 K miles ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OM617 head
Has anyone ever thought about making a new cross flow head for the OM617? I was thinking about the possibilities of CNC milling one from aluminum. Of course it might be easier and cheaper to buy a new CDI. Trampas
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Has anyone had experience with Smithy Co. lathes, mills, and related equipment? I need a drill press but would like to have a vertical mill which could do machining as well as function as a drill press. Smithy Co. has combination lathe-vertical mills (something like the old Shopsmiths) from $1600 to $3900. Their website is: http://www.smithy.com/MWdefault.htm Gerry - Original Message - From: Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has anyone ever thought about making a new cross flow head for the OM617? I was thinking about the possibilities of CNC milling one from aluminum. Of course it might be easier and cheaper to buy a new CDI. Trampas
Re: [MBZ] OM617 head
Both my 300D 2.5 and the 300SDL have adequate power for merging - no problems at all. The 602 and 603 engines are great! On 9/24/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trampas wrote: I was just dreaming of having a diesel with enough power such that I can merge onto the highway with out people honking. I guess a cummings diesel pickup would be a better option. I didn't feel like my 300D Turbo lacked for freeway merging power. It wasn't a fast car, but with the turbo it was adequate. -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. Sir Winston Churchill '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager
