Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
Please move to DC to broaden our tax base. On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 1:44 PM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I’m going to be selling the house soon so probably not going to run new > service to the garage to accommodate the welder so will just put in a > socket near the shutoff circuit and get an extension cord to have a bit > more flexibility. > > --FT > Sent from iFōn > > > On Mar 20, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or > wherever), > > Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord > > on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the > > welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue > > to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V > appliance > > you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die > or > > start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) > > > > (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, > > you have a place to plug it in already.) > > > > Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. > > > > I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder > somewhere > > it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, > then send > > it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! > > > > I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay > elevator. It was > > a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and > we > > used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to > 220V, > > as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. > (That > > really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a > ceiling joist, > > overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I > could > > do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No > > tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. > > > > -- Jim > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
I’m going to be selling the house soon so probably not going to run new service to the garage to accommodate the welder so will just put in a socket near the shutoff circuit and get an extension cord to have a bit more flexibility. --FT Sent from iFōn > On Mar 20, 2022, at 8:44 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or > wherever), > Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord > on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the > welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue > to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V appliance > you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die or > start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) > > (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, > you have a place to plug it in already.) > > Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. > > I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder somewhere > it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, then > send > it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! > > I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay elevator. It > was > a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and we > used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to 220V, > as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. (That > really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a > ceiling joist, > overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I could > do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No > tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. > > -- Jim > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
Were it me, I'd put a standard 220V welder socket in the garage (or wherever), Buy the mating plug, and a suitable length of cable, and replace the cord on the welder with it. Buy a second socket and a drop box, and use the welder's original cable to make a 110->220 adapter, so you can continue to use the welder on a 110V outlet. Done, and safe. Any other 220V appliance you fed 110V this way would be underwhelmed perhaps, but unlikely to die or start a fire. (Completely the opposite of what their adapter can do.) (And, if you were to ever come up with a Miller or other _nice_ welder, you have a place to plug it in already.) Alternately, just ignore 220V and enjoy your welder as-is. I would bury that start-a-fire adapter that came with the welder somewhere it would never see the light of day again. Perhaps destroy it first, then send it to the recycler's. WORST IDEA EVER! I put a 220V outlet in the barn, as a kid. It was for the hay elevator. It was a standard outlet, as a standard plug was what was on the elevator, and we used a standard extension cord to feed it. I re-strapped the motor to 220V, as we were plagued by the inability to feed it enough current on 110V. (That really perked the old girl up.) To avoid tragedy, this outlet was on a ceiling joist, overhead, and had "220V" painted on the plate. Hard to reach. Best I could do, without incurring a significant expense for all-new 220V stuff. No tragedies yet, in the 40+ years since. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
This welder I got will run on 110V or 220V Input Current: 45A@110V, 30A@220v It looks like guys just plug them into a regular 20A 110V plug on that input. The thing also has a short adapter for 220V that goes from a standard 3-prong 110V female end (and doesn't have the wide/narrow flat blades) to a 50A 220V male (even though it says it only needs 30A) if you want to use it on 220V for a bit more output. I can get a 50A socket https://www.amazon.com/ELEGRP-Mounting-Receptacle-Straight-Grounding/dp/B09225GPNC to wire into a feed off a box (30A breaker I guess). I have never seen a 45A 110V socket or cable or whatever so I'm not sure what that is about. And a 30A 220V plug/socket is different from this 50A plug. It's all a bit weird. Here's the listing for the unit https://yeswelder.com/products/mig-welder-mig205 Thoughts on the 45A 110V or just go with a regular 20A circuit and see what happens? I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. -- --R Winston Churchill: “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
I have a 40A breaker on my new 200A main power cutoff box for the addition (it's under the addition but easy to reach) that I broke out with (I think) 8g wire to a box that I never hooked up to anything, I'll have to look to make sure. I'll put a socket on that. It's not in the garage but I can do stuff outside if I need to. The shutoff has a bunch of breaker spaces too so I could always put something else on it. I was looking for extension cords for this, and lo Yeswelder sell ext cords for the 220V input. A 20ft #8 and a 40ft #10, both with the 50A ends, which makes no sense but there you go. https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Welder-Extension-Welding-Machines/dp/B08QJ929NG https://www.amazon.com/YESWELDER-Welder-Extension-Welding-Machines/dp/B08QJ8PBSW And this one https://www.amazon.com/Miady-Welding-Industrial-Machine-Lighted/dp/B07RY4KXKD which is 25ft #8 I will probably just buy some cable and make up an extension for the 200V 40A breakout with a 50A socket on the box, put those 50A connectors on it, and have a go at it. I could pop in a 30A breaker too instead of the 40A, keep the machine from roasting itself I guess, but keep all the 50A stuff from the machine. Or maybe the 40A would provide some of the extra starting current without frying the machine and tripping the breaker? I guess that is a happy medium between 30 and 50. Thanks for your input! --FT On 3/19/22 2:58 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. The worst thing is that it will start a fire, and not out on the flamey end. Though this is unlikely. I REALLY don't like the games they're clearly playing with the input cord. Also, their labeled specs are pretty crappy/confusing. On the back, IF I interpret correctly, it says that 110V Imax is 43A, but it says that Ieff (effective, i.e. RMS) is only 33A. Heating is the problem with overcurrent, and heating is driven by RMS current, not peak. So, so long as the wire in their firestarter cabling is good for 30A (RMS) then it won't catch on fire. You will be hard-pressed, though, to find any standard-looking outlet that will give you more than 20A before its breaker pops. And you will be hard pressed to find any standard-looking outlet that is capable of delivering 50% more current (30A) through its blade contacts without causing problems, even if it was wired and fused for 30A. (10ga wiring, 30A breaker. DO NOT DO THIS) There's a reason that those high-current plugs have such big pins. So, there's no way this would work well at high loads for very long. The input wiring is simply not up to the task. You, and indeed likely most of their customers, will probably not be riding it so hard as to cause input feed problems, and so it'll probably work fine. This is China, Inc., and they simply don't care about a few fires that might come of this. At the first sign of trouble they'd simply change the paint color and the name on it, and soldier on. All of these objections would go away if they'd simply put a real 220V cord on it, with the correct 30A (50A?) plug. It could be used on 110V, but one should expect the 20A breaker to pop if you run it too hard for too long. -- Jim -- --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
> I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. The worst thing is that it will start a fire, and not out on the flamey end. Though this is unlikely. I REALLY don't like the games they're clearly playing with the input cord. Also, their labeled specs are pretty crappy/confusing. On the back, IF I interpret correctly, it says that 110V Imax is 43A, but it says that Ieff (effective, i.e. RMS) is only 33A. Heating is the problem with overcurrent, and heating is driven by RMS current, not peak. So, so long as the wire in their firestarter cabling is good for 30A (RMS) then it won't catch on fire. You will be hard-pressed, though, to find any standard-looking outlet that will give you more than 20A before its breaker pops. And you will be hard pressed to find any standard-looking outlet that is capable of delivering 50% more current (30A) through its blade contacts without causing problems, even if it was wired and fused for 30A. (10ga wiring, 30A breaker. DO NOT DO THIS) There's a reason that those high-current plugs have such big pins. So, there's no way this would work well at high loads for very long. The input wiring is simply not up to the task. You, and indeed likely most of their customers, will probably not be riding it so hard as to cause input feed problems, and so it'll probably work fine. This is China, Inc., and they simply don't care about a few fires that might come of this. At the first sign of trouble they'd simply change the paint color and the name on it, and soldier on. All of these objections would go away if they'd simply put a real 220V cord on it, with the correct 30A (50A?) plug. It could be used on 110V, but one should expect the 20A breaker to pop if you run it too hard for too long. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT Electrical question for little welder
This welder I got will run on 110V or 220V Input Current: 45A@110V, 30A@220v It looks like guys just plug them into a regular 20A 110V plug on that input so the 45A thing is a mystery. The thing also has a short adapter for 220V that goes from a standard 3-prong 110V female end (and doesn't have the wide/narrow flat blades) to a 50A 220V male (even though it says it only needs 30A) if you want to use it on 220V for a bit more output. I can get a 50A socket https://www.amazon.com/ELEGRP-Mounting-Receptacle-Straight-Grounding/dp/B09225GPNC to wire into a feed off a box (30A breaker I guess). I have never seen a 45A 110V socket or cable or whatever so I'm not sure what that is about. And a 30A 220V plug/socket is different from this 50A plug. It's all a bit weird. Here's the listing for the unit https://yeswelder.com/products/mig-welder-mig205 Thoughts on the 45A 110V or just go with a regular 20A circuit and see what happens? I guess the worst thing is it will just trip a breaker. --FT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
