Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
Exactly. What the MAC doesn't have to deal with is a HUGE variety of hardware and drivers. That's what makes a large part of the difference. Using VPC, you've just eliminated the hardware issues. The VPC presents the same virtual hardware to the OS, regardless of what's underneath. That SHOULD make the OS about as stable as it can be, given the stability of the host OS/hardware. Of course, I do blow up the OS in VPCs, because that's what I'm testing -- what will happen when I do this stupid thing or that -- Recovery is just shut it down with out saving the changes, back up in a virgin state in minutes. Great stuff! I had a graphics shop that was running on PCs, but they were complaining about blowing up the PCs, not stable, etc. When they got to printing color directly to the press, we OK'd the MACs - far better color management. Seems that those creative graphic artists can blow up MACs just as fast as they did PCs - but no they have to support themselves - we won't touch them. On 4/7/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Say what? I can install Windows XP on ANYTHING in about 2 hours. OS 10.4 takes about the same... Windows 98 was garbage, Windows 95 was also garbage. 2000 and XP are quite stable and usable. The problem is the garbage that people load onto them. Like the type R stickers that make cars go faster... -Curt Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:53:41 -0700 From: redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It has more to do with hours wasted trying to keep the POS running. If you have done installs of windows, you can see why a mac user will be very perplexed by a person willing to subject themselves to that torture. Sort of the head scratch I have with Mistress Jill. WTF gets into a boy to want to be hung up with tuna hooks on 100# test line? An OS install for mac takes a few moments and runs. A winblows install can take all weekend to get it nailed down right. - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK '90 300D 243K, Rattled '87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car '81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car '78 450SLC 67K, brown car '97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
Living in both the Mac and PC world for some 20 years now, I still find the Mac much easier to keep functioning. There are some limitations on hardware, but not on the upper end (any networkable printer is very likely to be Mac compatible, at least with a generic Postscript driver). PCs, on the other hand, require HUGE effort to get compatible drivers, SCSI was always a big pain, and so forth. Macs are somewhat more tempermental in some ways (i.e. no slave drive on revision 1 BW G3s) and memory isn't always standard, but I've always had fewer headaches with them. A couple of driver packages has always taken care of the hardware (mostly hard drive) problems. I did find one of the few drives completely unusable with my Wallstreet G3 laptop quite by chance, but all in all, I've spent much less time making my Macs work than my PCs/ Certainly, the OS is much less troublesome. Up to OS X, installation and re-installation was a breeze. OS X takes somewhat longer (as a friend of mine says, Linux/Unix is patch heaven), but is still less of a hassle than XP or any earlier version. Managing extensions is very easy on the mac, unlike a PC pre-XP/2000, and memory management is a whole different ball of wax, although that issue is thankfully gone -- anyone else remember when 512k of memory was a lot? As far as users screwing things up, what can they possibly be doing other than actual damage? Using any standard software is pretty much transparent, and Macs no more sensitive to damage from inappropriate hot swapping things than PCs. Peter
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
-- anyone else remember when 512k of memory was a lot? I remember when 5k was a lot! My first computer had 256 bytes of RAM. (Still does, actually, in that I still have it. But I added 1k of RAM to it somewhere along the line.) -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
I remember going to the software store and thinking I was a hotshot because I had a 14MB harddrive! This was after using the dual 5 1/4 floppy with no drive at work! Jeff Zedic Toronto 87 300TD
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
I come from mainly a DOS-Windows world but work with Unix during school. So at work we are doing some major number crunching (8-10Gbytes of data) so we built a Win XP x64 box. It removed memory constraints but was not fast. So I went to install Linux (red hat fedora core 4). Spent about a day trying to install video drivers, never could get them compile correctly etc. Contacted some Linux gurus they spent hours trying. Finally gave up. I have not tried OSX or Mac yet but have been considering it now that I can boot XP on the hardware if needed. I love the idea of BSD (OSX), I like the OSX user interface better than XP. The only two problems I have with OSX is #1 learning a new OS #2 Programs that only run on XP like CAD software Linux is great if you spend you life learning the OS, but for some of us a computer is a tool which increases the value of our time. Linux for me decreases the value of my time as it takes me extra time for configuring and using the OS. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Zedic Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:35 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away I remember going to the software store and thinking I was a hotshot because I had a 14MB harddrive! This was after using the dual 5 1/4 floppy with no drive at work! Jeff Zedic Toronto 87 300TD ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
On Saturday 08 April 2006 6:56, Trampas wrote: Linux is great if you spend you life learning the OS, but for some of us a computer is a tool which increases the value of our time. Linux for me decreases the value of my time as it takes me extra time for configuring and using the OS. I have been using LInux for a decade or so. I initially made the switch from Windoze based on the fact that I was spending several hours per month diagnosing problems, restoring registries, etc after crashes and I figured that my time would be better spent learning a stable OS rather than bandaiding a total POS like Windoze 98. I have used several Linux distros. I am not by any means a computer whiz, ubernerd, etc. There is a great deal of variation from distro to distro in terms of ease of installation and configuration. Installing and configuring Red Hat is not necessarily the best intro to Linux. Had you started with Mepis, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, etc, you may have had a more pleasant experience. Using Linux is no more difficult than using XP or OSX from a daily user's perspective. The difference in daily use is that you are using a different windows manager and different applications, i.e., OpenOffice rather than M$ Office, the GIMP rather than Photoshop, Firefox or Konqueror rather than M$ Internet Explorer. These transitions are easy to make, IMO. KDE in particular is very similar to Windows in layout. The big differences between Linux and other OSs become apparent when you are functioning more in an administration mode. In this mode, there will be a learning curve, but with Linux you will be learning a system which is really elegant in most respects. Initial configuration of a linux OS can occasionally present challenges, but it is a wee bit of pain, followed by countless hours of using an OS which costs nothing, doesn't crash and doesn't need anti-virus software. Lee
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
lee wrote: Initial configuration of a linux OS can occasionally present challenges, but it is a wee bit of pain, followed by countless hours of using an OS which costs nothing, doesn't crash and doesn't need anti-virus software. On typical 32-bit machines, that's true. In fact, the hardware detection in the recent distributions I've used has been pretty much flawless. It was actually a little easier than Windows because I didn't have to hunt down drivers. However, Trampas is talking about a 64-bit machine. Everything I've heard indicates that Linux on 64-bit desktop systems isn't quite ready for prime time. The initial push was to get 64-bit working well on servers, and that means that a lot of the driver support and such isn't quite there for desktop systems. Microsoft went through a similar period with 64-bit Windows XP. However, they can demand that hardware manufacturers write new drivers for them. Linux distributions don't have that kind of pull.
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
It has more to do with hours wasted trying to keep the POS running. If you have done installs of windows, you can see why a mac user will be very perplexed by a person willing to subject themselves to that torture. Sort of the head scratch I have with Mistress Jill. WTF gets into a boy to want to be hung up with tuna hooks on 100# test line? An OS install for mac takes a few moments and runs. A winblows install can take all weekend to get it nailed down right. On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 11:22 PM, Zoltan Finks wrote: When I heard the news on the radio today, I knew lots of people would get all worked up. Mac vs. PC reminds me of the Mopar vs. Chevy war that raged in my circles growing up. As a graphic artist, I have used lots of Macs, but some years ago it seems PCs became capable enough to do everything I need to do. So I don't feel much loyalty either way. To me, a computer is a tool - I have never understood the passion. Well, actually, I may begin to understand when I think of the war in terms of cars. I would throw down in defense of Mopars as a kid. I hated Chevys. And Fords did not often even enter the conversation. Guess everyone needs something to root for. Look at avid sports fans, heck, even young gang members. We need something that allows us to say, Hey, this is mine, this is who I am, you got a problem with that? Brian Feeling philosophical tonight On 4/6/06, redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Used to run VPC on a 9500/200 and it was about as fast as having a P5/133. Had it hopped up with ram. No OS X version, so no idea if it runs well on the iMac and what speed. The 6400/G3 400 made it seem about as fast as a 266 PII under OS 8.6 and 384 ram On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 08:21 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: He needs to run winders for FEMA, but prefers to work efficiently the rest of the time. I have been drooling over the macbooks for some time now. And why not run VPC (or equivalent) instead? No dual-booting involved, and the PC junk is never in control enough to be able to hammer the system, only itself. Plenty fast enough for a whole lot of uses. -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
An OS install for mac takes a few moments and runs. A winblows install can take all weekend to get it nailed down right. With VPC it's just dupe the master already-installed template file and you're done. Moments, indeed. -- Jim
[MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ WTF! If I wanted that garbage on my computer I would have gotten a dell -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ WTF! If I wanted that garbage on my computer I would have gotten a dell A friend of mine tells me that if you want the very fastest notebook PC you need to get an Intel Macbook and coerce it into doing Windows or Linux (whatever). Myself, I think OS X is just fine! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
I told JohnnyB that yesterday. You guys weren't paying attention: You might consider purchasing what is currently the world's fastest Windows laptop, a Macbook. Yep! Macbook! http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/03/23/1717259.shtml There is a patch out that allows you to have a dual boot Macbook; OSX for efficiency, or Windows when you must. Seems like a good solution to me. And you also get a very nice laptop in the deal. He needs to run winders for FEMA, but prefers to work efficiently the rest of the time. I have been drooling over the macbooks for some time now. At 07:55 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/ WTF! If I wanted that garbage on my computer I would have gotten a dell A friend of mine tells me that if you want the very fastest notebook PC you need to get an Intel Macbook and coerce it into doing Windows or Linux (whatever). Myself, I think OS X is just fine! -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
On 4/5/06 7:55 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine tells me that if you want the very fastest notebook PC you need to get an Intel Macbook and coerce it into doing Windows or Linux (whatever). Myself, I think OS X is just fine! -- Jim This is true. And Apple this a disclaimer on its site: Word to the Wise Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it¹ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes. -- +-- GG 1997 SL500 (101k) http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm http://homepage.mac.com/deneals +--
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
On 5-Apr-06, at 7:25 PM, George Gregory wrote: This is true. And Apple this a disclaimer on its site: Word to the Wise Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes. That's for ignorant macintosh users who've never been exposed to the Window's trauma of viruses and pop-up ads extraordinary. I will also note consumer reports rates apple #1 by a huge percentage over #2 for hardware quality support. So buying a nice mac and *only* running XP or Vista someday on it wouldn't be a stupid decision just in order to get nice looking and superb performing hardware. Still I have to wonder if you buy a XP CD who does the support for you? Usually isn't that covered by the poor hardware vendor? PS I keep getting whacked by the fact that consumer reports also says mercedes ranked mucho last in problems with their cars. Although I point out that a friend bought a used 2002 C320? wagon which he still feels after two months of usage the finest automobile he has driven even compared to every 2006/2007 wagon/crossover vehicle he could get his hands on. John 1983 300TDt 372k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990 300TDt 164k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 172k Kilometers (mobil 1 0w40)
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
He needs to run winders for FEMA, but prefers to work efficiently the rest of the time. I have been drooling over the macbooks for some time now. And why not run VPC (or equivalent) instead? No dual-booting involved, and the PC junk is never in control enough to be able to hammer the system, only itself. Plenty fast enough for a whole lot of uses. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
Those fixes are the cause of more trouble with that darn PC On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 07:25 PM, George Gregory wrote: On 4/5/06 7:55 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine tells me that if you want the very fastest notebook PC you need to get an Intel Macbook and coerce it into doing Windows or Linux (whatever). Myself, I think OS X is just fine! -- Jim This is true. And Apple this a disclaimer on its site: Word to the Wise Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes. -- +-- GG 1997 SL500 (101k) http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm http://homepage.mac.com/deneals +-- ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
Last CR I looked at did not list a Benz as a best buy, but had a large number in the car to avoid On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 07:45 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: On 5-Apr-06, at 7:25 PM, George Gregory wrote: This is true. And Apple this a disclaimer on its site: Word to the Wise Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes. That's for ignorant macintosh users who've never been exposed to the Window's trauma of viruses and pop-up ads extraordinary. I will also note consumer reports rates apple #1 by a huge percentage over #2 for hardware quality support. So buying a nice mac and *only* running XP or Vista someday on it wouldn't be a stupid decision just in order to get nice looking and superb performing hardware. Still I have to wonder if you buy a XP CD who does the support for you? Usually isn't that covered by the poor hardware vendor? PS I keep getting whacked by the fact that consumer reports also says mercedes ranked mucho last in problems with their cars. Although I point out that a friend bought a used 2002 C320? wagon which he still feels after two months of usage the finest automobile he has driven even compared to every 2006/2007 wagon/crossover vehicle he could get his hands on. John 1983 300TDt 372k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990 300TDt 164k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 172k Kilometers (mobil 1 0w40) ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
Used to run VPC on a 9500/200 and it was about as fast as having a P5/133. Had it hopped up with ram. No OS X version, so no idea if it runs well on the iMac and what speed. The 6400/G3 400 made it seem about as fast as a 266 PII under OS 8.6 and 384 ram On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 08:21 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: He needs to run winders for FEMA, but prefers to work efficiently the rest of the time. I have been drooling over the macbooks for some time now. And why not run VPC (or equivalent) instead? No dual-booting involved, and the PC junk is never in control enough to be able to hammer the system, only itself. Plenty fast enough for a whole lot of uses. -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
When I heard the news on the radio today, I knew lots of people would get all worked up. Mac vs. PC reminds me of the Mopar vs. Chevy war that raged in my circles growing up. As a graphic artist, I have used lots of Macs, but some years ago it seems PCs became capable enough to do everything I need to do. So I don't feel much loyalty either way. To me, a computer is a tool - I have never understood the passion. Well, actually, I may begin to understand when I think of the war in terms of cars. I would throw down in defense of Mopars as a kid. I hated Chevys. And Fords did not often even enter the conversation. Guess everyone needs something to root for. Look at avid sports fans, heck, even young gang members. We need something that allows us to say, Hey, this is mine, this is who I am, you got a problem with that? Brian Feeling philosophical tonight On 4/6/06, redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Used to run VPC on a 9500/200 and it was about as fast as having a P5/133. Had it hopped up with ram. No OS X version, so no idea if it runs well on the iMac and what speed. The 6400/G3 400 made it seem about as fast as a 266 PII under OS 8.6 and 384 ram On Wednesday, April 5, 2006, at 08:21 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: He needs to run winders for FEMA, but prefers to work efficiently the rest of the time. I have been drooling over the macbooks for some time now. And why not run VPC (or equivalent) instead? No dual-booting involved, and the PC junk is never in control enough to be able to hammer the system, only itself. Plenty fast enough for a whole lot of uses. -- Jim ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Clay Seattle Bioburner 1972 220D - Gump 1995 E300D - Cleo 1987 300SDL - POS - DOA The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz ___ http://www.striplin.net For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
John M McIntosh wrote: Still I have to wonder if you buy a XP CD who does the support for you? Usually isn't that covered by the poor hardware vendor? If you buy a retail boxed copy, you get support directly from Microsoft. That's one of the reasons you pay a premium to get it that way. If you buy the OEM edition, a little flat package with a peel-off sticker to put on the case, YOU have just become the hardware vendor and you're on your own. David Brodbeck '83 300D Turbo
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
On Thursday 06 April 2006 12:12, David Brodbeck wrote: If you buy a retail boxed copy, you get support directly from Microsoft. That's one of the reasons you pay a premium to get it that way. Been there. Called M$ years ago when I was having problems with a Windows-powered pc and verified experientially what I had long suspected - the only advantage the guy on the other end of the line had over me was that he had a M$ troubleshooting manual. Putting XP on your Mac is like putting cheap mags and a spoiler on your Benz. Lee
Re: [MBZ] We can all just throw our Macs away
lee wrote: Putting XP on your Mac is like putting cheap mags and a spoiler on your Benz. Well, yes and no. It's more like having a gasoline Benz instead of a diesel one. It's not as efficient and there's more maintenace required, but you have a lot more options when you need to buy fuel. David Brodbeck '83 300D Turbo
