Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
Ummm, I can't see how this could be true. The speedo drive is in the transmission isn't it? The transmission doesn't care if both wheels are spinning or just one, it takes the same number of driveshaft revolutions either way. The spider gears care... -Curt Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:14:13 -0500 From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations Message-ID: 27e87fbb-09d1-43ef-bc0b-5056714a2...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 80 would be very unsafe; if only one wheel was turning, it would be going 160 mph when your speedometer read 80, which might cause that tire to come apart... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS
I get it now and retract my previous question. I had thought the original post said that the speedo would have to read 160 to hit 80mph rotational speed. I re-read and realize it says no such thing. -Curt Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:39:37 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS Message-ID: 20140302213937.91f011096ef5b38a29978...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:36:50 +1030 Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. With an ordinary, non-limited slip, non-Torsen differential, if both rear wheels are turning at the same rate, as in driving down a straight, dry road, they will go the speed indicated by the speedometer. If one wheel is held still and the other is allowed to rotate freely, like with the car on jack stands or with one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement, the wheel that is rotating will rotate with twice the speed indicated by the speedometer. That's how an ordinary differential works. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS
Here are some illustrations and explanations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_%28mechanics%29 Go down the page to functional description. I think of the drive shaft turning the axles on the planetary gears. When the planetary gear attached to one axle is stopped, the planetary gear attached to the other axle starts spinning. Its motion (rpm) is added to the motion (rpm) of the ring gear which is turning the whole planetary assembly. Gerry.whose explanations are usually clear as mud. -- On 3/2/2014 11:57 PM, Dieselhead wrote: On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:36:50 +1030 Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. With an ordinary, non-limited slip, non-Torsen differential, if both rear wheels are turning at the same rate, as in driving down a straight, dry road, they will go the speed indicated by the speedometer. If one wheel is held still and the other is allowed to rotate freely, like with the car on jack stands or with one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement, the wheel that is rotating will rotate with twice the speed indicated by the speedometer. That's how an ordinary differential works. Craig Right, and the physics of how a differential is normally built, and the usual engine rotation direction cause the right rear (driven) wheel to turn/slip more if all things are equal. On the front drive VWs I've had, the RF wheel gets the torque. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS wiki and the US Merc
Don't worry had me confused as well, I knew I should have not skipped the class on differential operations but all good now. Those nice diagrams on wikipedia explain it nicely. I guess the spider gears have a 2:1 ratio. Speaking of things I did not know cause I wasn't paying attention, did you know that the Chrysler 300 came with a Diesel engine in England and Oz? However don't get too excited, the OM642 had some serious issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM642_engine a fella over here had his fail at 70k kmhs. Which leads me onto one of my pet hates, the geniuses who write crap on wikipedia: The*Mercedes-Benz OM642 engine*is a 3.0-liter, 72° 24-valve, aluminum block dieselV6 engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V6_enginemanufactured by theMercedes-Benz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benzdivision ofDaimler AG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_AG Mercedes-Benz division? I didn't know that Daimler had a MB division, I am thinking MB is a brand name for Daimler, cooked up when Daimler and Benz had to jump into bed together. Anyway wikipedia articles relating to Daimler and it's stuff is full of this sort of thing, I might have to do some editing there. Also the claim that the G-wagen is Daimlers longest produced vehicle is rubbish, far as I know the Unimog holds that title. Hendrik who is dazed and confused but thanks to the smart people here is slowly getting better On 04/03/14 00:04, Curt Raymond wrote: I get it now and retract my previous question. I had thought the original post said that the speedo would have to read 160 to hit 80mph rotational speed. I re-read and realize it says no such thing. -Curt Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:39:37 -0700 From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS Message-ID: 20140302213937.91f011096ef5b38a29978...@pisquared.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:36:50 +1030 Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. With an ordinary, non-limited slip, non-Torsen differential, if both rear wheels are turning at the same rate, as in driving down a straight, dry road, they will go the speed indicated by the speedometer. If one wheel is held still and the other is allowed to rotate freely, like with the car on jack stands or with one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement, the wheel that is rotating will rotate with twice the speed indicated by the speedometer. That's how an ordinary differential works. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
Yes I am running out of problems to chase down with the car just now so this one rises to the top. putting the car on stands and winding up to 80 sounds a bit too much like ferris Buehler s day off, but is otherwise a fine idea. I didn't follow the bit about 80 on stands without the driveshaft, though it seems like a safer way to test! cannot see wheel bearings doing this. thanks for your thoughts ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
80 would be very unsafe; if only one wheel was turning, it would be going 160 mph when your speedometer read 80, which might cause that tire to come apart... On March 2, 2014 7:35:34 PM EST, kdwittne...@yahoo.com kdwittne...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes I am running out of problems to chase down with the car just now so this one rises to the top. putting the car on stands and winding up to 80 sounds a bit too much like ferris Buehler s day off, but is otherwise a fine idea. I didn't follow the bit about 80 on stands without the driveshaft, though it seems like a safer way to test! cannot see wheel bearings doing this. thanks for your thoughts ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Max Dillon Charleston, SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
Max Dillon wrote: 80 would be very unsafe; if only one wheel was turning, it would be going 160 mph when your speedometer read 80, which might cause that tire to come apart... ...or the differential. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
Max Dillon wrote: 80 would be very unsafe; if only one wheel was turning, it would be going 160 mph when your speedometer read 80, which might cause that tire to come apart... ...or the differential. Mitch. No, the tire speed rating has to do with heat. THe tire does not heat up spinning in air. The right rear tire won't come apart, but you don't want the speedo going 80 on stands for long. Just long enough to see the driveshaft oscillating, or not. That does not cause the tire to come apart, or the diff to fail as long as it has the proper level of the right grease in it. I've done it to diagnose driveshaft problems. It only takes a second at the harmonious speed. Then you see the driveshaft oscillating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS
OK I'll bite, you're saying that if you put the rear axle up, the rear wheel will spin at twice the speed? How does that work? The magic 2 speed diff option? The input speed into the diff is the same at 80 but the output doubles? That's great, I am going to take one of the tires of the back and get better mileage, just explain how this works, dumb old me always thought these things are to do with gear ratios but hey if I can twice the speed out of it, due to the magic diff, I’ll give it a crack. What about if I spin the tire in dirt and only side is spinning, am I going twice as fast or have I broken the speed of light and time is slowing down? This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. Hendrik who is confused On 03/03/14 13:57, Dieselhead wrote: Max Dillon wrote: 80 would be very unsafe; if only one wheel was turning, it would be going 160 mph when your speedometer read 80, which might cause that tire to come apart... ...or the differential. Mitch. No, the tire speed rating has to do with heat. THe tire does not heat up spinning in air. The right rear tire won't come apart, but you don't want the speedo going 80 on stands for long. Just long enough to see the driveshaft oscillating, or not. That does not cause the tire to come apart, or the diff to fail as long as it has the proper level of the right grease in it. I've done it to diagnose driveshaft problems. It only takes a second at the harmonious speed. Then you see the driveshaft oscillating. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:36:50 +1030 Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. With an ordinary, non-limited slip, non-Torsen differential, if both rear wheels are turning at the same rate, as in driving down a straight, dry road, they will go the speed indicated by the speedometer. If one wheel is held still and the other is allowed to rotate freely, like with the car on jack stands or with one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement, the wheel that is rotating will rotate with twice the speed indicated by the speedometer. That's how an ordinary differential works. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations BS
On Mon, 03 Mar 2014 14:36:50 +1030 Hendrik and Fay heni...@gmail.com wrote: This is all very confusing but I need to know the science behind it, otherwise I'll have to believe in magic, as that is the only explanation I can think of as to why a tire would spin at twice the normal speed. With an ordinary, non-limited slip, non-Torsen differential, if both rear wheels are turning at the same rate, as in driving down a straight, dry road, they will go the speed indicated by the speedometer. If one wheel is held still and the other is allowed to rotate freely, like with the car on jack stands or with one wheel on ice and one wheel on dry pavement, the wheel that is rotating will rotate with twice the speed indicated by the speedometer. That's how an ordinary differential works. Craig Right, and the physics of how a differential is normally built, and the usual engine rotation direction cause the right rear (driven) wheel to turn/slip more if all things are equal. On the front drive VWs I've had, the RF wheel gets the torque. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding bad vibrations
ooohh that would drive me nuts. My truck had that sort of thing going on, new steer tires and everyhting is good but seeing that you have had tires replaced, we can discount that. Have you checked your wheel bearings, I suppose you would have at some stage in 13 years. Wheel alignment? I would be inclined to remove the drive shaft or at least securely put the back end on axle stands and get up to the magic 75-80. Actually perhaps put it up on stands and see, if the vibration is there, removed drive shaft, if vibration is gone, drive shaft is out of balance. Perhaps you hit a gutter a bit hard and bent something? Things like worn bushes would not be culprit as they would get worser and worser with age. That's the strange thing, usually if it is caused by worn parts, it would get badder. Feeling a vibration is pretty useless as the vibration is transferred through the car. Hendrik who does not vibrate On 02/03/14 10:29, kdwittne...@yahoo.com wrote: with lots of good tire shops changing tires and balancing rotating over the years, nobody ever said a wheel was out of true. so unlikely I concede. so maybe that joint. feels like it is under the console or seat. Seems like maybe 120hz at 75mph. vibration, not much sound. stops again above 80. I have driven it that way since 2001. nobody can figure it out, but most mechanics never test drive at that speed. k ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
I bought a transmission rebuild video for a 722.315. I watched about 1/3 of it and haven't took the time to finish. From what I saw, I would make the attempt. The video was put out by D.T. Charnews (2004) and it struck me that he was in his garage doing things just like I do, but, doing a good job of showing and describing details. I can't remember what I paid, but I think it was about $30. Harry Watkins Newton, MS 86 SDL Silver 85 300D Euro 86 SDL Gold 81 240D manual trans From: David Bruckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding Didn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] make a DVD explaining the rebuild process? D. ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
I would add that MB transmissions rarely fail before 250,000 miles if maintained, so you have wear on the gear train and clutch drums much more so that in a GM, which usually bites the dust at around 100,000. The result is that you must check ALL the parts, not just slap in a new set of frictions and seals. That will fix a GM or Ford right up, but the MB trannies normally have things like worn planetary thrust washers that MUST be replaced or the tranny will be noisy and or not work right. Typically, if I remember correctly, at least one of the drums and all three bands must be replaced, the gear sets usually need rebuilding, and the pumps often require replacement due to wear. Peter
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Well his video doenst got into the valve body, its just removed, not taken apart. Doubt I would attempt to take one apart. Marshall Booth wrote: David Bruckmann wrote: Didn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] make a DVD explaining the rebuild process? YES. But of course, his video can ONLY illustrate one model. You need the specific for YOUR transmission. His video can't illustrate the valve body variations of different transmission. It CAN be done. Most of the people that rebuilt their own transmissions managed to do it without MAJOR problems is they did it slowly and carefully without making ANY mistakes or correcting mistakes before the transmission was reassembled. This almost always was possible IF they had someone experienced that they could ask questions of. 30-50 hours is a common when DIYers rebuild a transmission, but there are a LOT of pitfalls. Just one mistake and the transmission has to come out to repair THAT. Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well his video doenst got into the valve body, its just removed, not taken apart. Doubt I would attempt to take one apart. Then you're NOT rebuilding the transmission! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Oh really, why not? Marshall Booth wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well his video doenst got into the valve body, its just removed, not taken apart. Doubt I would attempt to take one apart. Then you're NOT rebuilding the transmission! Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:17:48PM -0600, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Oh really, why not? need to clean everything before you put it back together. Some transmissions (47RE comes to mind) get sticky passages in the valve body that need to be dealt with during a rebuild. K
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Hi all, My transmission just recently went out and I have purchased a new car (needed something that doesn't burn out every few months.) but defiantly want to put my old Benz back to running condition. I just love the way that thing rides. Time is of no concern as I can spend a very long time attempting to rebuild. This valve body stuff sounds a little advanced and undocumented. In what circumstances does one need to rebuild the valve body? First gear still works but I can't get it to go into 2nd. The fluid went from red to black in about 1 week after this happened. And that is only driving it three times to get it moved from the point of failure (at a 10m.p.h crawl)back to my house. What other publicly or cheaply accessible documentation is available on how to do this sort of thing besides this video? Thanks, Nick 82 300 SD (tranny gone) 2005 Infiniti G35 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:11 PM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding Well his video doenst got into the valve body, its just removed, not taken apart. Doubt I would attempt to take one apart. Marshall Booth wrote: David Bruckmann wrote: Didn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] make a DVD explaining the rebuild process? YES. But of course, his video can ONLY illustrate one model. You need the specific for YOUR transmission. His video can't illustrate the valve body variations of different transmission. It CAN be done. Most of the people that rebuilt their own transmissions managed to do it without MAJOR problems is they did it slowly and carefully without making ANY mistakes or correcting mistakes before the transmission was reassembled. This almost always was possible IF they had someone experienced that they could ask questions of. 30-50 hours is a common when DIYers rebuild a transmission, but there are a LOT of pitfalls. Just one mistake and the transmission has to come out to repair THAT. Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Besides replacing ball checks, seats, springs, metering orfices and the like. I think a MB V/B has 1/2 dozen balls in it. On 12/6/05, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:17:48PM -0600, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Oh really, why not? need to clean everything before you put it back together. Some transmissions (47RE comes to mind) get sticky passages in the valve body that need to be dealt with during a rebuild. K ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Oh really, why not? Marshall Booth wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: Well his video doenst got into the valve body, its just removed, not taken apart. Doubt I would attempt to take one apart. Then you're NOT rebuilding the transmission! The valve body (and OTHER hard) parts wear too. Measuring and replacing these hard moving parts that show any wear is why a proper rebuild will last as long as the original. After 200-250kmi, valve body parts show a LOT more wear than most American or Japanese transmissions that last and average 75-150kmi. Rebuilding a Mercedes transmission is a matter of MUCH more than replacing soft parts! If you just replace the soft parts, the transmission my fail again ANY MOMENT. That's the problem with most MacFix rebuilds. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
[MBZ] transmission rebuilding
So how hard is it to rebuild these things? I am thinking that it would be easy to go gather a bunch up at various junkyards or Okie homesteads, ship a container load to China or India or Mexico or CA (nothing special about German rebuilders -- they probably use the immigrant Turks and Arabs there anyway, cheap labor) with the proper tools and bits, train some cheap labor there to rebuild them, then sell them for less than this. Or say a new rebuild is $2k, it takes an old one, couple hundred dollars in parts, and some tools, you are looking at maybe $1500 margin on that. That is $30/hr for 50 hrs, not a bad wage for working part-time in your garage, I can't imagine it even takes that long once you figure out how to do it. If you are paying a couple dollars an hour (if that much) plus shipping, etc. you could still come out way ahead. Seriously, what am I missing? --R Hans Neureiter wrote: This is what Jaggi replied to my inquiry: 1982 Mercedes 300SD, 722303 02 174697 Transmission. ~ 165 k miles. Transmission leaks @ front (pump seal ?). Please quote estimated rebuilt cost. Can you do R R from/in vehicle ? Reply: 12-5-05 The front pump seal 010 997 50 47 is $12.00. We do not RR transmissions. The cost on a rebuild is $1800.00 without converter. -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D On 12/5/05, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Neureiter wrote: I can get it done at http://www.jie.com/Mercedes/mercedes_benz_transmissions.htm They are in the Houston area. R R at a local ind. MB shop for $ 2,800. They have a good reputation! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
I watched a chap rebuild a 1976 Mercury transmission once. It took 2 hours from the time he jacked up the car until we drove out of the shop. He worked at the plant assembling Ford transmissions, so he knew what he was doing. OTOH, I'm sure there are critical adjustments of which the DIY person will not be aware. The rebuild kits for most automatic transmissions are less than $200. YMMV, as this is from someone who is NOT an automatic transmission expert. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:24 AM To: Mercedes mailing list Subject: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding So how hard is it to rebuild these things? I am thinking that it would be easy to go gather a bunch up at various junkyards or Okie homesteads, ship a container load to China or India or Mexico or CA (nothing special about German rebuilders -- they probably use the immigrant Turks and Arabs there anyway, cheap labor) with the proper tools and bits, train some cheap labor there to rebuild them, then sell them for less than this. Or say a new rebuild is $2k, it takes an old one, couple hundred dollars in parts, and some tools, you are looking at maybe $1500 margin on that. That is $30/hr for 50 hrs, not a bad wage for working part-time in your garage, I can't imagine it even takes that long once you figure out how to do it. If you are paying a couple dollars an hour (if that much) plus shipping, etc. you could still come out way ahead. Seriously, what am I missing? --R Hans Neureiter wrote: This is what Jaggi replied to my inquiry: 1982 Mercedes 300SD, 722303 02 174697 Transmission. ~ 165 k miles. Transmission leaks @ front (pump seal ?). Please quote estimated rebuilt cost. Can you do R R from/in vehicle ? Reply: 12-5-05 The front pump seal 010 997 50 47 is $12.00. We do not RR transmissions. The cost on a rebuild is $1800.00 without converter. -- Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX '82 300SD, '95 E300D On 12/5/05, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Neureiter wrote: I can get it done at http://www.jie.com/Mercedes/mercedes_benz_transmissions.htm They are in the Houston area. R R at a local ind. MB shop for $ 2,800. They have a good reputation! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net ___ For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Rich Thomas wrote: So how hard is it to rebuild these things? I am thinking that it would be easy to go gather a bunch up at various junkyards or Okie homesteads, ship a container load to China or India or Mexico or CA (nothing special about German rebuilders -- they probably use the immigrant Turks and Arabs there anyway, cheap labor) with the proper tools and bits, train some cheap labor there to rebuild them, then sell them for less than this. Or say a new rebuild is $2k, it takes an old one, couple hundred dollars in parts, and some tools, you are looking at maybe $1500 margin on that. That is $30/hr for 50 hrs, not a bad wage for working part-time in your garage, I can't imagine it even takes that long once you figure out how to do it. If you are paying a couple dollars an hour (if that much) plus shipping, etc. you could still come out way ahead. Seriously, what am I missing? What you are missing is that in order to get the 10+ hour process of rebuilding (for a really skilled, experienced craftsman) down to the point where the rebuilt transmission only has a 10% failure rate, usually requires that the rebuilder, rebuilds about 20 transmissions (the first few USUALLY don't work and the defect rate SLOWLY declines). After that only about 5-10% have problems. Few rebuilders including Mercedes get the failure rate much below a few percent. Those problems aren't usually discovered UNTIL the transmission is back in the car and maybe driven for 10s or 100s of miles. The cost of removing and replacing the transmission is ~$500 so that has to be added to the cost of about every 10 transmissions (if you have really well trained rebuilders). Then there are the hard parts. You need to assume that MOST core transmissions have SOME hard part wear - and hard parts for Mercedes transmissions are expensive (unlike the $300 or so in soft parts for a minimal rebuild or the hard parts in most American transmissions). I know several guys that have rebuilt their own transmission - and were successful - the first time. BUT, that first time took 40-50 hours and the people were VERY careful, methodical, and compulsive. You can't make make ANY money selling a Mercedes transmission rebuild for any less than about $1500. That DOESN'T include pulling the original one and installing the new one. That also seldom includes ANY provision to warrant the labor to RR the warranted transmission, if the transmission should fail or shipping the box to and from where it will be repaired. Rebuilding Mercedes transmissions is NOT an easy way to make money even after you've been doing it for years an know ALL the tricks! Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Rich Thomas wrote: Good info, but I am still unclear as to what about the MB trans makes it so much more complicated. I guess part of it must be that it is very well-engineered to last a couple hundred kmiles, but that should not necessarily mean it is harder to redo (it could mean it is easier to redo!). Ae there more bits, more tolerances, more stuff to undo/do as compared to your average GM or Ford unit? I have not done a tranny, any tranny, so do not know the particulars of doing it, just wondering as at some point it might be an interesting or necessary thing to do. But even at 40-50 hrs and parts to do it right (as you mention), you are still doing pretty OK if you value your time/wallet. You can take your Mercedes transmission to MacTransmissions (Aamco, Stop 'n Go, etc.) and get a $900 rebuild. On average they tend to last less than 50kmi (and some don't go 20kmi). You can buy a factory rebuild for $2000+ and it will last for 200+kmi. You pay the money and take your choice. Despite the fact that the Mercedes 722 transmissions are essentially Borg Warner (Ford C-4/C-6, Mopar A-727/A-904) designs (with the addition of an auxiliary reduction planetary behind the main compound unit) the construction is VERY different than any US transmission that's been made in the last 40 years or more and the parts quality/tolerance is very high. Sort of like comparing a Rolex to a Timex. They REALLY are that different and so is repairing them. To do it right takes skill, time, quality parts and all of the documentation on the modifications (Mercedes often made MANY changes ever year). Without the proper valve body descriptions, you'd NEVER get the valve body back together and working again without trying each of the possibilities one by one and then putting the transmission back into the car to see if it shifted correctly after each trial. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
OK I am disabused of the notion of rebuilding a Benz tranny. --R Marshall Booth wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: Good info, but I am still unclear as to what about the MB trans makes it so much more complicated. I guess part of it must be that it is very well-engineered to last a couple hundred kmiles, but that should not necessarily mean it is harder to redo (it could mean it is easier to redo!). Ae there more bits, more tolerances, more stuff to undo/do as compared to your average GM or Ford unit? I have not done a tranny, any tranny, so do not know the particulars of doing it, just wondering as at some point it might be an interesting or necessary thing to do. But even at 40-50 hrs and parts to do it right (as you mention), you are still doing pretty OK if you value your time/wallet. You can take your Mercedes transmission to MacTransmissions (Aamco, Stop 'n Go, etc.) and get a $900 rebuild. On average they tend to last less than 50kmi (and some don't go 20kmi). You can buy a factory rebuild for $2000+ and it will last for 200+kmi. You pay the money and take your choice. Despite the fact that the Mercedes 722 transmissions are essentially Borg Warner (Ford C-4/C-6, Mopar A-727/A-904) designs (with the addition of an auxiliary reduction planetary behind the main compound unit) the construction is VERY different than any US transmission that's been made in the last 40 years or more and the parts quality/tolerance is very high. Sort of like comparing a Rolex to a Timex. They REALLY are that different and so is repairing them. To do it right takes skill, time, quality parts and all of the documentation on the modifications (Mercedes often made MANY changes ever year). Without the proper valve body descriptions, you'd NEVER get the valve body back together and working again without trying each of the possibilities one by one and then putting the transmission back into the car to see if it shifted correctly after each trial. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] transmission rebuilding
Didn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] make a DVD explaining the rebuild process? D.
